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Posted: 8/2/2015 5:12:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
That is the only way to get the lengths I need on my lot. Then nothing else matters. If that is how it has to fit, so be it. Do what you can, use your available space as efficiently as you can, and go play radio. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 6:20:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Depending on the height over ground and the slope of the wires, there will probably be some changes
to the radiation pattern that are so minor as to be barely measurable. The lower the antenna is to the ground, the less of a pure dipole pattern there is, so if you're below 1/4WL the impact won't even be measurable. It's really no big deal, and the height gain from the hill is probably have more positive impact on reception than the negative impact of a slope. Every single antenna installation is unique so I wouldn't worry about it at all. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 8:32:35 PM EDT
[#3]
It will probably look more like an omnidirectional but with a high angle take-off angle.
See what you can do with it. It may bust ballz or it may reach out 5-6 hundred miles. As much as we strive for the "perfect" antenna there will always be trade offs. The general rule being: Do the best ya can with what ya got. Put some RF into it & see what ya get.. Ya might be surprised. Best 73..FN.. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 9:32:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Lower take off angle downhill and higher uphill is the rule of thumb.
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:39:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Lots of good advice so far. At the risk of speaking over my head, your take-off angle is formed in the far field that's multiple wavelengths away from your antenna. Install the HFTA (High Frequency Terrain Assessment) program that comes with the ARRL antenna book. You'll need to load USGS terrain details into it, and select a dipole antenna since that's closest to yours. It will give you an idea how your antenna performs in each direction from where it is, based its height and on the surrounding terrain.
ETA: Adding your terrain details used to be a manual process but I see Stu has automated some of it. http://k6tu.net/?q=TerrainProfiles |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 12:16:46 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
snip Every single antenna installation is unique so I wouldn't worry about it at all. this is something that should be repeated. I've been stuck a few times because I couldn't get the ideal setup to work in my yard. then I throw something up in a half-assed manner and guess what - it works! Very few folks have the 'ideal' setup for any given antenna - it's all a compromise. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 11:39:41 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this is something that should be repeated. I've been stuck a few times because I couldn't get the ideal setup to work in my yard. then I throw something up in a half-assed manner and guess what - it works! Very few folks have the 'ideal' setup for any given antenna - it's all a compromise. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
snip Every single antenna installation is unique so I wouldn't worry about it at all. this is something that should be repeated. I've been stuck a few times because I couldn't get the ideal setup to work in my yard. then I throw something up in a half-assed manner and guess what - it works! Very few folks have the 'ideal' setup for any given antenna - it's all a compromise. Yeah, but having some sort of idea of what a given antenna will do can help you decide what will likely work better if you have options. If not then just try it out and how it works is how it works. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:33:24 PM EDT
[#8]
Its kind of like showing up for a match with a rifle with iron sights and everything s past the 300yd. , you just shoot what you brung.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:57:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its kind of like showing up for a match with a rifle with iron sights and everything s past the 300yd. , you just shoot what you brung. But it helps if you actually know how to shoot at long range. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 4:59:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But it helps if you actually know how to shoot at long range. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Its kind of like showing up for a match with a rifle with iron sights and everything s past the 300yd. , you just shoot what you brung. But it helps if you actually know how to shoot at long range. ANyone ever heard of Palma? OP the Smith charts etc are based on theory and ideal conditions. I busted through the Navassa pileups with 30 watts and a wire in a tree. Imagine what everyone had that was in that pileup. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 9:07:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lower take off angle downhill and higher uphill is the rule of thumb. This is more or less the answer, although your particular setup may well work just fine. My personal experience was that, living on a hill going up towards the East and using an end-fed long wire vertical, I had enormous trouble hitting Europe but got Asia and South America with few problems. A dipole oriented broadside to the upward slope direction should work even better. If time and space permit, even a wire beam antenna like a Spiderbeam may be very beneficial to overcome what may end up being a distorted radiation pattern that launches at a high angle into the ionosphere in the direction of the upward slope. |
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Posted: 8/4/2015 9:41:28 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ANyone ever heard of Palma? OP the Smith charts etc are based on theory and ideal conditions. I busted through the Navassa pileups with 30 watts and a wire in a tree. Imagine what everyone had that was in that pileup. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its kind of like showing up for a match with a rifle with iron sights and everything s past the 300yd. , you just shoot what you brung. But it helps if you actually know how to shoot at long range. ANyone ever heard of Palma? OP the Smith charts etc are based on theory and ideal conditions. I busted through the Navassa pileups with 30 watts and a wire in a tree. Imagine what everyone had that was in that pileup. Pic, while I understand the American standard anti-intellectual attitude, I think given the rather technical nature of this hobby a better understanding of how and why antennas actually work is useful for most hams. Yeah I have lots of stories of how I worked station x with a man pack and improvised antenna systems, I like to think that understanding the best way to set that antenna up did help me make the contact. |
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Posted: 8/4/2015 10:26:53 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pic, while I understand the American standard anti-intellectual attitude, I think given the rather technical nature of this hobby a better understanding of how and why antennas actually work is useful for most hams. Yeah I have lots of stories of how I worked station x with a man pack and improvised antenna systems, I like to think that understanding the best way to set that antenna up did help me make the contact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its kind of like showing up for a match with a rifle with iron sights and everything s past the 300yd. , you just shoot what you brung. But it helps if you actually know how to shoot at long range. ANyone ever heard of Palma? OP the Smith charts etc are based on theory and ideal conditions. I busted through the Navassa pileups with 30 watts and a wire in a tree. Imagine what everyone had that was in that pileup. Pic, while I understand the American standard anti-intellectual attitude, I think given the rather technical nature of this hobby a better understanding of how and why antennas actually work is useful for most hams. Yeah I have lots of stories of how I worked station x with a man pack and improvised antenna systems, I like to think that understanding the best way to set that antenna up did help me make the contact. I was simply pointing out that the theory is dependent on conditions. When I undertake any project I start with as much theory as I can get. I am certainly not an anti-intellectual. What happens when the theory doesn't work is it gets added to or deducted from as necessary. There have been any number of projects I have entered with ZERO know-how and went straight to the books to find out how it's done. Often it's a straight textbook solution, often it's text plus improvision. My post regarding Smith charts is simply pointing out that someone's mileage may vary from theory based on real conditions. |
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