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Posted: 11/28/2014 11:19:53 AM EDT
Have arranged to have a very rare radio in my shack for an a lengthy trial, including some A/B testing against my radios (including the FlexRadio System models).



You will catch my write up as it develops at "With Varying Frequency" as the radio is too uncommon to fill up other forums, and I as a rule avoid repetitive cross-posting of the same material.

First QSO on the new rig was to W1AW/1 RI which was cool!

73

Steve
K9ZW

BLOG:  With Varying Frequency at http://k9zw.wordpress.com



Link Posted: 11/28/2014 5:14:10 PM EDT
[#1]
$20k radio vs Flex will be an interesting comparison.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 7:42:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 7:48:26 PM EDT
[#3]
What color is it?
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:30:08 PM EDT
[#4]
So new it doesn't even have a serial number yet?

Oooooooohhhhhhhhh!!!  
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:41:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Son of a...

However, I see that Sherwood has ranked the Flex 6700 above the Hilberling (and I wish they would get the Anan in the mix).

However, however, for that much money I could buy a 6700 and an Expertamps 2KFA.

However, however, however, you might want to check the spelling of Hilberling on your blog...
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 11:48:46 AM EDT
[#6]
WOW.

That's the grail radio.  That said, look where Sherwood rated the KX3 against the Hilberling.
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 12:20:15 PM EDT
[#7]
How does one get a sample Hilberling  to try in their shack
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 4:22:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks for the spelling catch - I shouldn't type and talk on the phone at the same time...

The serial number was blanked for the photo.

This example is Blue.

Eventually the radio will make its way up to George W9EVT (check him & his shack out on QRZ), but possession is 9/10ths and with the difficult weather and limited ferry schedule this time of year... well it will be in my shack for a bit.

BTW my A/B testing will be purely subjective and nothing like Rob's exemplary lab work.  Basically with which one am I having what kind of success & fun.

73

Steve
K9ZW
Link Posted: 12/11/2014 6:00:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Next installment in draft - kind of like writing whether you like the "Surf" or the "Turf" better in a Steak & Lobster dinner....

Should have it up on the blog mid-weekend.

73

Steve
K9ZW
Link Posted: 12/11/2014 6:37:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
WOW.

That's the grail radio.  That said, look where Sherwood rated the KX3 against the Hilberling.
View Quote

Link to ratings?
Link Posted: 12/11/2014 6:47:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Link to ratings?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
WOW.

That's the grail radio.  That said, look where Sherwood rated the KX3 against the Hilberling.

Link to ratings?


http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

The new TS-590SG just got added too.
Link Posted: 12/11/2014 9:15:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks for the spelling catch - I shouldn't type and talk on the phone at the same time...

The serial number was blanked for the photo.

This example is Blue.

Eventually the radio will make its way up to George W9EVT (check him & his shack out on QRZ), but possession is 9/10ths and with the difficult weather and limited ferry schedule this time of year... well it will be in my shack for a bit.

BTW my A/B testing will be purely subjective and nothing like Rob's exemplary lab work.  Basically with which one am I having what kind of success & fun.

73

Steve
K9ZW
View Quote


George told me he only likes to collect American made radios. Maybe he was talking about one of his collections.
Link Posted: 12/11/2014 9:45:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Link to ratings?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
WOW.

That's the grail radio.  That said, look where Sherwood rated the KX3 against the Hilberling.

Link to ratings?


I wish people on the net stop making comments on radios they never even played with, instead they look at some test results from some nerd that only operates CW.
Mr Sherwood never comments on such things like front end noise floor, AGC performance, DSP performance, Audio quality (both RX and TX), ergonomics etc. He instead concentrates on one thing forgetting everything else. His test data puts a KX3 in the same category as an FTDX5000.
Link Posted: 12/11/2014 10:24:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I wish people on the net stop making comments on radios they never even played with, instead they look at some test results from some nerd that only operates CW.
Mr Sherwood never comments on such things like front end noise floor, AGC performance, DSP performance, Audio quality (both RX and TX), ergonomics etc. He instead concentrates on one thing forgetting everything else. His test data puts a KX3 in the same category as an FTDX5000.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
WOW.

That's the grail radio.  That said, look where Sherwood rated the KX3 against the Hilberling.

Link to ratings?


I wish people on the net stop making comments on radios they never even played with, instead they look at some test results from some nerd that only operates CW.
Mr Sherwood never comments on such things like front end noise floor, AGC performance, DSP performance, Audio quality (both RX and TX), ergonomics etc. He instead concentrates on one thing forgetting everything else. His test data puts a KX3 in the same category as an FTDX5000.


Gyprat,

That's not the only thing Rob considers.  Here's one recent example of his well rounded understanding of radios in a post on the Yahoo group about the TS-590 series.  He makes many similar comments around the web about other radios and radios in general.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/KenwoodTS-590/conversations/topics/24949

I don't know if you need to be a member of that group to see it so I'll quote him here.


Hi everyone.  Let me comment on test data on my web site for the TS-590SG.

First there are new features, and I haven’t had any time to even look at them yet.  I also haven’t yet used the SG on the air, but simply ran it through the lab yesterday afternoon in about four hours.  I have a long form report available, but I cannot give any “user” feedback yet.  I did run the original TS-590S in a 160 meter CW contest in either 2010 or 2011, doing a “shoot out” between it and the T-T Eagle.  The Kenwood was easier to use, but both handled the QRM well.

All the radios in my web table have been ranked by one number, close-in (2 kHz) dynamic range.  This is an important number, particularly on CW.  It should not be considered the only important data point.  That would be like choosing a sports car that had the biggest engine, but disregarding how it handled on curvy roads!  Lots of aspects of a radio’s performance are important, and close-in dynamic range (DR3) is certainly one of them.

The dynamic range, and in this case the RMDR, is modestly better for the SG version compared to the S version.  RMDR stands for “reciprocal mixing dynamic range” as per the ARRL definition.  (April 2012 QST, sidebar Bob Allison Lab Engineer)  I used to call this “phase noise limited”.  It is the same thing. Since day one (1977) I always ranked my chart (table) as to how the measured dynamic range could be the performance limit in a CW pile-up (DX or contest).

Another thing that I feel is a problem when we are all in the search of “the holy grail” of receiver performance is the question of “what is good enough”.  When I was visiting Flex Radio this year, Steve Hicks said he felt that he could draw a line at some point in my performance chart and say everything above that line “is good enough” from the standpoint of dynamic range (be it third-order dynamic range [DR3] or RMDR).  I agree with that statement.  So does Tom Rauch, W8JI.  Tom and I have said for years that 80 dB is usually good enough. Since it would be rare to be able to operate a radio at its perfect optimum, maybe you want a bit higher number.  In the past couple years, as radios have improved, I have said I want 85 dB or more. How about 90 dB so there is a bit of a safety factor.

For this one data point, the TS-590S came in at 88 dB for the down-conversion bands, and 76 dB for the up-conversion bands.  The TS-590SG comes in at 92 dB for the down-conversion bands and 79 dB for the up-conversion bands.  Kenwood has clearly said in their advertising material that the SG has a cleaner local oscillator (LO).  The first mixer is also discussed, but I don’t know what might have changed there.  The wide-spaced (20 kHz) DR3 of both units measured the same at 104 dB.

I don’t get excited about blocking numbers since they are 30 to 40 dB above DR3 (or RMDR) values.  The League tests blocking with a 1-Hz audio spectrum analyzer so that phase noise is virtually eliminated from the measurement.  It is a valid measurement for the design engineer since it tells him when to quit spending money on the mixer and when to focus on the synthesizer (LO).  For the amateur I don’t think the 1-Hz number  is a useful, since none of us use a 1-Hz CW filter on the air.  Likewise the ARRL DR3 number since 2007 has also used this same phase noise elimination testing method.  I briefly tested a few radios for blocking with their method, and my blocking numbers with an “S” footnote were done in that way.  I later decided this was meaningless data, so I don’t measure with a 1-Hz filter anymore.  Thus it looks like the 590S has a higher blocking value than the 590SG.  That isn’t the case since the two radios were tested in different ways.  I never tested DR3 with a 1-Hz filter since I always thought that measurement was misleading.  If the RMDR of a radio is 80 dB, and the DR3 measured with a 1-Hz filter is 100 dB, the real limit of that radio is 80 dB.  (Read the QST sidebar for a better understanding of this issue.)

For the last few months the TS-590S has been selling at a truly bargain price of about $1250.  If a ham could only budget that much for a radio, I would recommend buying one of the few remaining TS-590S radios.  If $1750 is in the budget, I would buy the new one.  It is great that Kenwood continues to improve on a fine radio.  It was a great radio when it came out four years ago, and it is even better today.

73, Rob Sherwood, NC0B    
Link Posted: 12/12/2014 11:04:54 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


George told me he only likes to collect American made radios. Maybe he was talking about one of his collections.
View Quote


Doesn't he have an amazing collection!!??!!

Where is tries to collect in depth American gear, he apparently has no similar compulsion to collect Icom, Yaesu, Kenwood or others.  No FT-101s or such....  I don't think he is adverse to them, but rather is focused on his favorites.  While he has an Orion II and Omni VII he hasn't had much desire to put together a TenTec collection, even though they are domestic.

I know that George had even sent Hilberling deposits, which they returned in an effort to get a radio when they first started showing, and often would speak to the Hilberling team at Dayton over the past several years.

In all honesty if the radio remained in my shack, I'm okay too, as it is really cool & quite a performer.  Wish I had a spare operating bench to dedicate to it though.  I'm thinking I should build a new shack as a separate building like George W9EVT has.. so maybe this and the pile of Collins S-Line gear I do not have room for are the catalyst?

73

Steve
K9ZW

Blog  With Varying Frequency - http://k9zw.wordpress.com



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