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Posted: 10/16/2014 8:03:19 PM EDT
Well.... Good news- both HF and VHF/UHF beams are on the tower. Bad news - I tested the Pro67b on the ground and was getting good dips on the analyzer. I'm not getting any positive resonance with the antenna up on the tower. We think it can be something wrong with the coax. We ran out of daylight to troubleshoot any further. The guys who were helping me are busy for the next week or two. This sucks but hopefully it's something simple.
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Posted: 10/16/2014 8:08:47 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm happy and sad for you, you'll figure it out. It sure is a monster up there!
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Posted: 10/16/2014 8:20:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Damn that looks nice!
I hope you can get the Gremlins out of it tomorrow. 
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Posted: 10/17/2014 6:04:26 AM EDT
[#3]
Wow, looks great. Good luck on the trouble shoot, hopefully and easy fix and great DXing!
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Posted: 10/17/2014 7:41:48 AM EDT
[#4]
Man that is sweet! Can't wait for your on-air results.
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Posted: 10/17/2014 8:38:47 AM EDT
[#5]
Clearly it was put up in too nice of weather.
What height is that at? Hope its a quick fix. Looks great! |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 11:34:01 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Clearly it was put up in too nice of weather.
Yep, probably used all of the right bolts and torqued everything properly also...a sure fire way to make sure you have to do it again. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 3:42:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Clearly it was put up in too nice of weather.
What height is that at? Hope its a quick fix. Looks great! The HF beam is at about 75 ft. The weather was nice and this could have contributed to the issues I'm having. I checked it again today. It only gets acceptable SWR on 17 meters. I hooked it up to my FT817 running off batteries. I hear booming signals on 17 meters but 20 meters in no better than a 3 ft piece of wire. Damn, i hope it's something wrong with the coax. I checked all traps and dimensions twice. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 7:47:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Damn, hopefully it's still something simple. Using insulators on the guys?
Where is it resonant at? |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 8:46:20 PM EDT
[#9]
It's not the coax. I got the same results with a small coax jumper. It resonates at around 7.4 MHz, 15 Mhz, 18.25Mhz, 21.400 (3:1 SWR at best), 25MHZ, 28,600. I hooked it up to my FT1000 and an antenna tuner. Australia was coming in at S9+ on 28.400. I turned antenna sideways and almost lost him. At 180deg he was heard at S5. There is definitely directionality on 10 meters. I could barely tune it to transmit on 20 meters but have not made any contacts yet. 40m would not tune at all.
Mosley had their technician off today. The guy I talked to, could not tell me anything I did not know. He said they need me to take SWR readings every 100kHz with an RF source. He said that I should not use my antenna analyzer but an RF source with inline SWR/Power meter. WTH is the analyzer? Dirtnasty, There are 3 insulators on each leg on the top guys. No insulators on the bottom row. My antenna/tower guy said that putting insulators is a waste of money. I had to talk him into installing some on the top row, breaking the guys at 21 ft length. He's been installing antennas for 30 years and claims it's best to not install any insulator on guy lines. I dunno. I'm a bit frustrated. Will call and talk to Mosley techs on Monday. Noise level is at S1-S2 with the Mosley. Yagi antennas are noisy. I already wish I would have gone with cubic quads. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 9:03:45 PM EDT
[#10]
When you tested with a small coax jumper, how did you do that? I found the manual for yours online and it feeds just like the one DirtNasty and I have. Is it possible there was any change or damage to the phasing lines or connecting coax during the installation?
ETA: My Yagi is quiet like that too, they should be. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 9:39:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When you tested with a small coax jumper, how did you do that? I found the manual for yours online and it feeds just like the one DirtNasty and I have. Is it possible there was any change or damage to the phasing lines or connecting coax during the installation? ETA: My Yagi is quiet like that too, they should be. Mosley manual says it's critical to have coax leads length right at 2 1/2". This is what I did with both the original coax and the test jumper coax. Both were tested with my MFJ 259 analyzer. There was one discrepancy when I ass-sembled the beam. 10 and 15 m reflectors (2&3rd elements from the back) were originally positioned in wrong places. The manual calls for 55 1/2" and 26 5/8" spacing. The original antenna owner installed them at 25 1/2" and 29 1/2" respectively. What really confused me is the fact that the original color marks were in wrong places as well for the two reflectors. I called Mosley and they said the manual was correct. I also looked at many Pro67b pictures and that confirmed that the spacing in the manual was correct. Weird, but this should not cause the problems I'm experiencing even if I had the two elements installed like the previous owner. Maybe one of the traps got damaged during antenna installation. It was a pain to get it up there. We build a tram line and used it to guide and support the beam while we pulled it with a rope up the tower. It took us a while to balance it so it would not swing all over the place. I don't remember the antenna hitting anything while it travelled over my shack and up the tower. I'll post more installation pictures later if anyone is interested. P.S. S1-S2 noise is too much for my QTH. S-meter usually rests at zero with my other antennas. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 9:47:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Here's our Mosley TA-33 10-15-20 Tribander on a 60' Rohn BX series tower.
We do not have the "40 meter kit" as they do not hold up in hurricane force wind. We get definite SWR dips down around 1.2:1 but they resonate near the top of each band. Still, easily tunable over the whole of each band. I would be glad to go up to the club station and get some actual readings from ours for comparison. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 9:50:28 PM EDT
[#13]
I took your noise comment the wrong way. I thought you meant it was more quiet than it should be.
If it seemed to dip SWR ok close to the ground but it doesn't now I'd suspect something changed during the install, but just a guess not knowing everything about it. I don't think the guys would throw it off that much. If everything is way off I'd think it would have to be something really important to the whole thing like the feedpoint, coax, etc, just like you originally suspected too. Got the coax center conductor connected to the phasing line farthest away from the mast? Just throwing out ideas. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 10:08:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I took your noise comment the wrong way. I thought you meant it was more quiet than it should be.
If it seemed to dip SWR ok close to the ground but it doesn't now I'd suspect something changed during the install, but just a guess not knowing everything about it. I don't think the guys would throw it off that much. If everything is way off I'd think it would have to be something really important to the whole thing like the feedpoint, coax, etc, just like you originally suspected too. Got the coax center conductor connected to the phasing line farthest away from the mast? Just throwing out ideas. Yep, got the coax connected just like the manual says. I'll call Mosley on Monday. Maybe they can give me some ideas. BTW, got 40 meters tuned with the tuner. Just worked Morocco and a few European stations. All gave me 59+ signal report. I was running my smaller amp at 600W. I'm too scared to fire up the big amp and blow the tubes. |
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Posted: 10/18/2014 12:00:36 AM EDT
[#15]
I did some research on the Web about problems these antennas experience. Several people mentioned issues with trap coils. Mosley never put any Penetrox on the rivets they used to attach coils to inner tubes (aluminum to aluminum connection). They develop poor connections over time. Sure thing...... I just checked several old traps that I replaced because they were broken. One of the coils shows 170Ohm resistance at the rivet. It looks perfectly good with no visible signs of corrosion. This is probably what's wrong with it. It needs to come down.. CRAP!!!
 
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Posted: 10/18/2014 12:15:04 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did some research on the Web about problems these antennas experience. Several people mentioned issues with trap coils. Mosley never put any Penetrox on the rivets they used to attach coils to inner tubes (aluminum to aluminum connection). They develop poor connections over time. Sure thing...... I just checked several old traps that I replaced because they were broken. One of the coils shows 170Ohm resistance at the rivet. It looks perfectly good with no visible signs of corrosion. This is probably what's wrong with it. It needs to come down.. CRAP!!!
Damn sorry to hear. I plan on putting together the TA-63 this weekend. What should I test or look out for? |
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Posted: 10/18/2014 12:24:30 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn sorry to hear. I plan on putting together the TA-63 this weekend. What should I test or look out for? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I did some research on the Web about problems these antennas experience. Several people mentioned issues with trap coils. Mosley never put any Penetrox on the rivets they used to attach coils to inner tubes (aluminum to aluminum connection). They develop poor connections over time. Sure thing...... I just checked several old traps that I replaced because they were broken. One of the coils shows 170Ohm resistance at the rivet. It looks perfectly good with no visible signs of corrosion. This is probably what's wrong with it. It needs to come down.. CRAP!!!
Damn sorry to hear. I plan on putting together the TA-63 this weekend. What should I test or look out for? This: Rivet to coil measures at 170 Ohm. I can't believe they did this shit. New traps were the same and may develop the same problem later.
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Posted: 10/18/2014 8:50:51 AM EDT
[#18]
Damn, that sucks! Once you get it down will you be able to repair the coils yourself or will you have to purchase replacements?
Vulcan94 |
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Posted: 10/18/2014 10:48:54 AM EDT
[#19]
Why not rewind the coil with copper wire stripped out of some Romex? Use a brass screw or rivet.
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Posted: 10/18/2014 11:24:51 AM EDT
[#20]
Sorry to hear it needs to come back down. Unfortunately, that's a common problem with many brands of traps, not just Mosley.
I would take them all apart for inspection and repair. Then if everything else is good I'd just drill out the rivets and replace with screws, using Penatrox of course. I've read about people doing it on many traps, here's one example. http://pa0fri.home.xs4all.nl/Ant/Fritzel%20trap&balun/fritzel%20trap&bal%20eng.htm |
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Posted: 10/18/2014 3:22:57 PM EDT
[#21]
UPDATE:
The antenna did not have to come down. The problem was with the coax, well, kind of. I coiled the coax to form an RF choke near the phasing lines (antenna connection points, just like the manual says). I also used 8 beads on the coax. This was causing he problem. We completely removed the coax from the boom and replaced it with a straight new piece. No RF choke. Everything works as it should now. Good resonance and SWR on all 7 bands (40-10m bands). I briefly made a few contacts on 20 and 10 meters from my FT817 running at 2.5 Watts from it's internal batteries. Got 59 reports from New York, Canada and California. IT'S WORKING. Whew...... 
The guy who was helping me chewed my ass for crimping coax connectors. I always soldered everything but decided to crimp to save time. He said crimping is a recipe for failure down the road. He's been doing this a living for 30 years. I'll continue to solder everything. I'll post more installation pictures sometime later. |
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Posted: 10/18/2014 3:51:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
UPDATE: The antenna did not have to come down. The problem was with the coax, well, kind of. I coiled the coax to form an RF choke near the phasing lines (antenna connection points, just like the manual says). I also used 8 beads on the coax. This was causing he problem. We completely removed the coax from the boom and replaced it with a straight new piece. No RF choke. Everything works as it should now. Good resonance and SWR on all 7 bands (40-10m bands). I briefly made a few contacts on 20 and 10 meters from my FT817 running at 2.5 Watts from it's internal batteries. Got 59 reports from New York, Canada and California. IT'S WORKING. Whew......
The guy who was helping me chewed my ass for crimping coax connectors. I always soldered everything but decided to crimp to save time. He said crimping is a recipe for failure down the road. He's been doing this a living for 30 years. I'll continue to solder everything. I'll post more installation pictures sometime later. Screw pic's! Name a frequency! 20M should be good to NH this time of day
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Posted: 10/18/2014 7:37:39 PM EDT
[#23]
I can do any band except 80m right now. We can try 40 meters or 20.
Just worked Japan on 15 meters. He was booming here at 50+10. He gave me 59+++. He said I was very loud.
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Posted: 10/18/2014 8:17:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
UPDATE: The antenna did not have to come down. Everything works as it should now. Good resonance and SWR on all 7 bands (40-10m bands). IT'S WORKING. Outstanding!! 
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Posted: 10/18/2014 9:27:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Glad you got it working!
Did you test it on the ground with the RF choke? Not sure this is going to keep from putting the RF choke in place though.
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Posted: 10/18/2014 9:40:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glad you got it working! Did you test it on the ground with the RF choke? Not sure this is going to keep from putting the RF choke in place though. No RF choke on the ground. It's weird but it works much better without it. |
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Posted: 10/18/2014 9:44:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Way to go!!!
  
Vulcan94 |
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Posted: 10/19/2014 5:02:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Daym. The radio is alive again. Been getting S9+30 signal reports and having fun busting pile-ups. Last night I had to use attenuator at max setting on 40 meters.
10 and 15 meter bands are full of booming signals. Daym. It's FO Time. My wife asked if she will see me at the house again.
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Posted: 10/19/2014 5:22:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Daym. The radio is alive again. Been getting S9+30 signal reports and having fun busting pile-ups. Last night I had to use attenuator at max setting on 40 meters. 10 and 15 meter bands are full of booming signals. Daym. It's FO Time. My wife asked if she will see me at the house again.Tell her your wife you will be MIA until the next major solar disturbance on HF. 
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Posted: 10/19/2014 5:35:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Very nice, Gyprat!
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Posted: 10/19/2014 5:42:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Very cool!
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Posted: 10/19/2014 5:55:45 PM EDT
[#32]
Still haven't heard it...
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Posted: 10/19/2014 6:03:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Still haven't heard it... No doubt, we want to feel the power too! 
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Posted: 10/19/2014 10:11:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Still haven't heard it... Name time and frequency.
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Posted: 10/19/2014 11:00:44 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Name time and frequency. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Still haven't heard it... Name time and frequency. You should schedule an ARFCOM Gyprat QSO party! |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 8:57:36 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Name time and frequency. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Still haven't heard it... Name time and frequency. I'm around until 1500 EDT today, then gone 'til late Thursday night, although there's a slight chance I'll be operating remotely in the late evenings. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 11:56:45 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm around until 1500 EDT today, then gone 'til late Thursday night, although there's a slight chance I'll be operating remotely in the late evenings. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Still haven't heard it... Name time and frequency. I'm around until 1500 EDT today, then gone 'til late Thursday night, although there's a slight chance I'll be operating remotely in the late evenings. I'm at home today. We can try 15 or 20 meters. 20 meters sucked last night. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 11:57:04 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm around until 1500 EDT today, then gone 'til late Thursday night, although there's a slight chance I'll be operating remotely in the late evenings. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Still haven't heard it... Name time and frequency. I'm around until 1500 EDT today, then gone 'til late Thursday night, although there's a slight chance I'll be operating remotely in the late evenings. I'm at home today. We can try 15 or 20 meters. 20 meters sucked last night. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 6:06:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Crap, missed you. Posting this courtesy of Southwest Airlines in-flight Wi-Fi. Might be remoting in sometime after 2300 local, though...
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Posted: 10/20/2014 6:50:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Here are some pictures like I promised.
We installed the 75 ft tower late last year. 3ft dia. Bobcat attachment was used to bore 5 ft deep hole. A smaller auger was used to bore holes for three guy wire posts. Guy wire posts were made of 6 inch, 1/4 wall thickness well casing. 
Guy wires attached to guy posts: 
Pro67b assembled on the ground. I had to attach one of the 40m extensions when the antenna was partially lifted off the ground. There was not enough space in front of my shack for this. 
VHF/UHF 5 el. Yagi was installed first: 
We had to use a tram line to guide the antenna up the tower. Tram line attached: 
We got a lift off. Ready to attach the last 40m. element: 
Going up the tram line. The bucket was used to balance the antenna. 
DONE: 
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Posted: 10/20/2014 9:01:34 PM EDT
[#41]
Looks like a lot of work, glad it's working well for you!
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:15:49 AM EDT
[#42]
Good golly, that looks like quite a set-up, very well done.
I can't even imagine having an antenna that size, it looks to be about as big as my house! |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 2:25:05 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Name time and frequency. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Still haven't heard it... Name time and frequency. After tomorrow's Arf net. Point that bitch west and see if you can get Hawaii! 
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Posted: 10/22/2014 2:16:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After tomorrow's Arf net. Point that bitch west and see if you can get Hawaii! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Still haven't heard it... Name time and frequency. After tomorrow's Arf net. Point that bitch west and see if you can get Hawaii! We can try but propagation has been bad lately. We can try 40 meters but I quit using digital modes and gave away my SignaLink USB adapter. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 5:36:55 PM EDT
[#45]
Good Gawd that thing is about twice the size of your truck LOL!
I'm interested in the Yagi....VHF Simplex here to there?
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Posted: 10/22/2014 6:28:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good Gawd that thing is about twice the size of your truck LOL! I'm interested in the Yagi....VHF Simplex here to there?
It's about the size of four semi trailers but looks smaller when on the tower. We can try 2m simplex. QRZ.com shows 42 miles between us. Piece of cake. My local buddies and I usually hang around 146.565 simplex. Just beware that we are not always politically correct when talking on 2m simplex.
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Posted: 10/22/2014 6:52:48 PM EDT
[#47]
PC...? me?
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