I should have thought this one through (pole problems with pics) updated with solution pics

Outdoors » Ham Radios

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I should have thought this one through (pole problems with pics) updated with solution pics

Posted: 4/22/2014 2:45:15 PM EDT

So, here's my issue:

32ft of fiberglass pole needs a guy wire system...

Here's the same setup, with 24ft (the 32 is just plain unsafe):

The paved road is a county access road to the sewage pump system, so I can't do anything to block or go over the road.

Any ideas?

Or do I just drop down to 20ft and not do anything?

Posted: 4/22/2014 3:19:05 PM EDT

[#1]

Add another 40 feet or so then put a weather balloon on top of it to keep it upright and you should be good to go.

Posted: 4/22/2014 3:22:50 PM EDT

[#2]

Stay at 24' and see how it performs.

Posted: 4/22/2014 3:23:14 PM EDT

[#3]

Add a spreader type system to stiffen the mast. Think sailboat.

you could probably use one but I'd put 2 12-15" spreaders, perpendicular to the mast, about 2/3 the way up the mast 90degrees apart on the opposite side of the "bend".

Then run 2 lines from the top of the mast, over the spreaders and back to the bottom of the mast, maybe use a couple of small turn buckles on the lower end for tension adjustment. this will counteract the pull of the antenna wire and keep the mast straight.

Posted: 4/22/2014 3:44:14 PM EDT

[#4]

1. Move it to a different location.

2. Make it a vertical.

Posted: 4/22/2014 4:16:36 PM EDT

[#5]

Why not just run the dipole between the trees?

The spreader ida will work. look at pictures of offshore sportfishing boat's outriggers.

Posted: 4/22/2014 5:23:53 PM EDT

[#6]

From that last picture, not only did you bend your pole, but you bent your fence!!!

Those poles just will not take sideways stress like that. But they are very strong in the direction of along the pole, compression. If the two legs of the dipole were exactly 180* then no problem as long as they allowed the pole to stand more or less straight up, no side stress.

So, who says you must fasten to the fence? Can you move the pole over to between the two endpoints? Then sink a post there to fasten to. Have you seen those metal things that clamp to the bottom of a 4x4 fence post? You drive them into the ground with a stub of 4x4 and a sledge. Work great!

Posted: 4/22/2014 5:28:29 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:So, who says you must fasten to the fence? Can you move the pole over to between the two endpoints? Then sink a post there to fasten to. Have you seen those metal things that clamp to the bottom of a 4x4 fence post? You drive them into the ground with a stub of 4x4 and a sledge. Work great!

View Quote

Can you elaborate?

Posted: 4/22/2014 6:07:05 PM EDT

[#8]

Hard to tell from the photos, but how far would you have to move the pole to be exactly between the two ends of the dipole? Would the pole then be in the middle of your sidewalk or anything awkward like that?

Posted: 4/22/2014 6:46:03 PM EDT

[#9]

It'd be in the middle of the swimming pool.

The position of the pole right now is exactly the length of my antenna wire, heh.

It's the blue line, and actually, the short side is closer to the red line than the blue line.

Posted: 4/22/2014 7:11:04 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:

Can you elaborate?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:So, who says you must fasten to the fence? Can you move the pole over to between the two endpoints? Then sink a post there to fasten to. Have you seen those metal things that clamp to the bottom of a 4x4 fence post? You drive them into the ground with a stub of 4x4 and a sledge. Work great!

Can you elaborate?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/LTL-Home-Products-24-in-Grey-Groundmaster-Post-System-GM-24/100072482

I put in a wood privacy fence using these instead of concreting posts in the ground. Worked great!

Posted: 4/23/2014 2:10:37 AM EDT

[#11]

All those trees are you are using poles?

Posted: 4/23/2014 4:27:44 AM EDT

[#12]

1/2 of the trees are actually going. :(

Besides, none of the trees are in the right places to run a decent antenna. The ones that are, already have my 30m dipole, and a 160m folded dipole in 'em.

Jupiter:
Is this what you're talking about with the bracing?

Posted: 4/23/2014 5:16:23 AM EDT

[#13]

No. The photo by the road and sidewalk is an end support and I thought you were showing a center support. Sorry.

Does the wire end run all the way to the pole on the end? If not, could you move the pole closer to the center support, and then run a guy at 45* down to tie off by the ground? That would counter the tension on the pole so that all force on the pole would be compression only, not bending.

Posted: 4/23/2014 7:17:47 AM EDT

[#14]

What about moving the pole ad reconfiguring as an inverted vee?

Is that an eagle's nest in the tree in the background?

Posted: 4/23/2014 8:04:53 AM EDT

[#15]

The fiberglass poles are not strong enough and will break where they join together in high winds.

Mine broke supporting a 40m dipole at about the 20 foot connection where they joined together.

Guying your poles may help, but if you have a thunderstorm with strong winds, my guess your poles may break too.

Posted: 4/23/2014 8:06:20 AM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
What about moving the pole ad reconfiguring as an inverted vee?

Is that an eagle's nest in the tree in the background?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:
What about moving the pole ad reconfiguring as an inverted vee?

Is that an eagle's nest in the tree in the background?

The antenna is a 135 (133ft really) Off Center Fed Dipole, and it is supported by the house, the high point is approximately 30ft in the air. It's actually almost an inverted V right now, 30ft in the center down to about 3ft at the ends. I can't have it as an inverted V anymore, because it's unsafe to use the diving board with the wire overhead, not to mention the landscaper doesn't like dodging the wire.

Yeah, it's an eagle nest, which is why that tree is still untouched, otherwise I'd be using it for a support.

Quoted:
No. The photo by the road and sidewalk is an end support and I thought you were showing a center support. Sorry.

Does the wire end run all the way to the pole on the end? If not, could you move the pole closer to the center support, and then run a guy at 45* down to tie off by the ground? That would counter the tension on the pole so that all force on the pole would be compression only, not bending.

Wire runs all the way to the end of the pole, unfortunately. The point where the pole is positioned is the furthest I can possibly put it, while maintaining safety margins with the swimming pool and MPE limits for the house. Should I run it as an inverted L OCFD?

Posted: 4/23/2014 8:51:51 AM EDT

[#17]

What other trees can you use along that road?
(or are they already used by the 30 and 160?)

Posted: 4/23/2014 8:56:38 AM EDT

[#18]

I bought some of the aluminum USGI poles and replaced my fiberglass poles.

They still need to be guyed if you go high, but I am confident they won't break in the wind like the fiberglass ones did.

Posted: 4/23/2014 9:45:41 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
What other trees can you use along that road?
(or are they already used by the 30 and 160?)

View Quote

That's the ideal location for an antenna on my property in dark blue, I have a 30 on the fence, and the 160 is folded around the fence (you can kinda see the fence.)

What if I put a top on it, and use a cable (non-conductive obviously) down the center of it to tension it?

I'm going to see how/where I can run guy wires tonight. Last night I didn't see any obvious locations. I'll cut a piece of 2x4 to make a support piece (can't remember the structural name) like #4 in the picture below:

If the 2x4 works, I'll work on something with less wind resistance.

Posted: 4/23/2014 10:09:52 AM EDT

[#20]

I found a picture of what I'm thinking of:

Ignore the ugly mug, and the falling over telephone pole, I'm interested in the guy wire "support" on the pole.

Posted: 4/23/2014 7:30:14 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
http://i.imgur.com/d1nPWUl.png

That's the ideal location for an antenna on my property in dark blue, I have a 30 on the fence, and the 160 is folded around the fence (you can kinda see the fence.)

What if I put a top on it, and use a cable (non-conductive obviously) down the center of it to tension it?

I'm going to see how/where I can run guy wires tonight. Last night I didn't see any obvious locations. I'll cut a piece of 2x4 to make a support piece (can't remember the structural name) like #4 in the picture below:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Schema-greement-TETE.png

If the 2x4 works, I'll work on something with less wind resistance.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

What other trees can you use along that road?

(or are they already used by the 30 and 160?)

http://i.imgur.com/d1nPWUl.png

That's the ideal location for an antenna on my property in dark blue, I have a 30 on the fence, and the 160 is folded around the fence (you can kinda see the fence.)

What if I put a top on it, and use a cable (non-conductive obviously) down the center of it to tension it?

I'm going to see how/where I can run guy wires tonight. Last night I didn't see any obvious locations. I'll cut a piece of 2x4 to make a support piece (can't remember the structural name) like #4 in the picture below:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Schema-greement-TETE.png

If the 2x4 works, I'll work on something with less wind resistance.

#4 in the picture is the spreaders like I mentioned above, but I was thinking more of what is called Jumper Struts and/or Jumper stays.

These would be on the "road' side of your mast with your antenna wire running on the opposite side at the top.

Posted: 4/24/2014 5:09:20 AM EDT

[#22]

I'm going to move the end support there about one foot left, and use a T-Post from Home Depot to support it. Then I'll have a couple more feet to use for guy wire(s).

Should I need more than one guy wire?

Will those same t-posts be sufficient to tie the guys to?

Posted: 4/24/2014 4:49:29 PM EDT

[#23]

It's up.

It's off the fence post, free-standing with about 3.90 feet of 5ft t-bar inside it. It just so happens that they fit inside PERFECTLY.

I used some 550 cord down the center of the thing to tension/compress it to the point where it's completely compressed, and it's MUCH better, almost free-standing like this. Amazing what compression loads do to slip-fit pieces...

Then, I drove another 5ft T-Bar into the ground at a 45 degree angle, directly behind the load, and tied it off to that with some significant tension. I broke three HSS drill bits drilling into those t-bars, they're strong stuff, and they work harden.

I'll take pictures tomorrow when it gets light out, it's 2045 here, and I just got done with it. That's worth an extra 0.5dBi, right?

Posted: 4/25/2014 5:36:13 AM EDT

[#24]

Wonderful picture goodness:

It actually changed my SWR quite a bit, so now I think I have to take it down and trim -- but I'll wait until I get the other side raised.

Posted: 4/25/2014 2:01:42 PM EDT

[#25]

Now I need to make a decision, do I use a tree for the other side, or do I just use another pole in a similar manner? I might be able to use this tree:

Posted: 4/25/2014 4:08:14 PM EDT

[#26]

There are several branches that look good for a nylon rope to anchor to antenna.

Posted: 4/25/2014 6:33:39 PM EDT

[#27]

If you decide to use a tree to support the wire, be aware that it will sway quite a bit in the wind. Try to use some sort of relief, old screen door spring, pulley with weight,etc.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I should have thought this one through (pole problems with pics) updated with solution pics

Outdoors » Ham Radios

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us