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Posted: 4/5/2014 9:51:15 AM EDT
I finally got all the parts needed to get started with changing the heatsink on my KX3 to a larger one. This should help keep the KX3 cooler on high duty cycle digital modes like JT65, JT9, Olivia, and PSK31. If it gets too hot, the frequency can start to drift.
I'm trying to reproduce the results from this link K9-Bob referenced in the other thread. http://blog.danegardner.com/2014/03/elecraft-kx3-heatsink-upgrade.html The high res pics in that link are great! 
Parts and Supplies
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Posted: 4/5/2014 10:34:25 AM EDT
[#1]
Here is some baseline data with the stock heatsink. WSJT-X running JT65 at 10w into an EndFedz antenna. Shack temp 72°F.
I never did reach the temp point where the KX3 cuts the power back to 5w. If the ambient temp was higher, I think that it would have reached that point. (60°C I think) 
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Posted: 4/5/2014 10:44:37 AM EDT
[#2]
TAG
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Posted: 4/5/2014 11:11:56 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
TAG THIS +1 |
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Posted: 4/5/2014 11:20:43 AM EDT
[#4]
I am on the laptop without a mouse, that is as good as it gets  .
It will be cool to overlay the new data on top to see the change. |
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Posted: 4/5/2014 12:30:08 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 4/5/2014 12:35:35 PM EDT
[#6]
BD, any chance of getting some data with just the new heat sink and before you install all the other stuff?
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Posted: 4/5/2014 12:50:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BD, any chance of getting some data with just the new heat sink and before you install all the other stuff? Good idea, Brundoggie! 
Yes, I'll just swap the heatsinks and retest. It may be later this evening before I get a chance, though. Family's demanding attention. |
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Posted: 4/5/2014 12:55:34 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 4/5/2014 1:46:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Original Heatsink
Heatsink Top Comparison 
Heatsink Bottom Comparison 
New Heatsink Installed 
New Heatsink Arrival 
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Posted: 4/5/2014 2:12:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Can you post a picture of the KX3 with the factory heat sink off?
Thanks BD! |
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Posted: 4/5/2014 2:13:41 PM EDT
[#11]
I did not realize it had a factory heatsink, I thought it just used the case
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Posted: 4/5/2014 2:15:24 PM EDT
[#12]
There's enough depth in the new design for fins. I wonder why he didn't take that approach (it would cut the weight down as well) since it maximizes airflow area.
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Posted: 4/5/2014 2:48:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's enough depth in the new design for fins. I wonder why he didn't take that approach (it would cut the weight down as well) since it maximizes airflow area. Dremel fluting! |
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Posted: 4/5/2014 2:53:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you post a picture of the KX3 with the factory heat sink off? Thanks BD! 
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Posted: 4/7/2014 6:44:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Stupid shack computer died. Working on it...
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Posted: 4/9/2014 4:42:50 AM EDT
[#16]
Ping for updates?
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Posted: 4/9/2014 5:01:28 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ping for updates? Just got new hard drive and OS, HRD, WSJT-X working last night. May be able to play radio this evening. 
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Posted: 4/9/2014 6:24:48 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just got new hard drive and OS, HRD, WSJT-X working last night. May be able to play radio this evening. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ping for updates? Just got new hard drive and OS, HRD, WSJT-X working last night. May be able to play radio this evening. Thank you good sir! |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:20:55 AM EDT
[#19]
Just compiled data from the new heatsink installed without any other mods. Sent the data to gcw to overlay on the first set of data from the original heatsink. Stay tuned for another update.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 4:17:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Data with the N8WTT heatsink installed.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 4:33:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Did you remove the paint?
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Posted: 4/14/2014 4:40:44 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you remove the paint? Not yet. I wanted a baseline to compare to the original heatsink, which did not have the paint removed. Today, I ordered the other heatsink with the cooling fins to add to the confusion!
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Posted: 4/14/2014 5:57:23 PM EDT
[#23]
So....the one without cooling fins didn't help much?
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Posted: 4/14/2014 6:17:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So....the one without cooling fins didn't help much? I'll reserve judgement until I see the plots GCW is preparing, but I see little difference. I haven't done anything but swap heatsinks, yet. I'd prefer NOT to do anything but change them. Truthfully, even with the original heatsink, my KX3 never cut back to 5w because of high temp. This is after TXing for 3 hours @ 10w on WSJT-X. Maybe if it was in the sun with an OAT (Outside Air Temp) in the 90's 
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Posted: 4/14/2014 6:29:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Thanks for the update.
I would have hoped to see better results given the cost. Maybe the larger surface area of the Canadian heat sink will do better. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 2:55:33 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll reserve judgement until I see the plots GCW is preparing, but I see little difference. I haven't done anything but swap heatsinks, yet. I'd prefer NOT to do anything but change them. Truthfully, even with the original heatsink, my KX3 never cut back to 5w because of high temp. This is after TXing for 3 hours @ 10w on WSJT-X. Maybe if it was in the sun with an OAT (Outside Air Temp) in the 90's Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So....the one without cooling fins didn't help much? I'll reserve judgement until I see the plots GCW is preparing, but I see little difference. I haven't done anything but swap heatsinks, yet. I'd prefer NOT to do anything but change them. Truthfully, even with the original heatsink, my KX3 never cut back to 5w because of high temp. This is after TXing for 3 hours @ 10w on WSJT-X. Maybe if it was in the sun with an OAT (Outside Air Temp) in the 90's I don't know what I was doing then, because I got it to auto temp switch to 5W dozens of times as well as having to dial it down to 3W several times with the factory heat sink. I'll probably get the same add on heat sink, though I will probably sand the paint off and add heat transfer paste to it when I install the new heat sink. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 4:21:35 AM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 4/15/2014 4:57:50 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryI didn't do the procedure myself, but the guy I bought it from did. Elecraft KX3 with Extras I also forgot to note that I've performed the VFO temperature compensation calibration procedure (http://www.elecraft.com/manual/KX3%2...20rev%20A8.pdf) so it's nice and stable for digital modes like JT65. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 5:10:42 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the update. I would have hoped to see better results given the cost. Maybe the larger surface area of the Canadian heat sink will do better. This would seem to indicate that the critical thermal interface is therefore that between the PA transistors and the case. I'd suggest that you add the thermal grease as suggested in the original article. In fact it would be a very interesting experiment to see what that alone does with the stock heatsink. That's probably going to be the biggest bang for the buck with the larger heatsink just being icing on the cake. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 7:06:11 AM EDT
[#30]
BigDaddy,
Thanks for the time, effort and expense to run these experiments and post the resulting data for us. The approach and detail is amazing compared to what is usually found in equipment reviews elsewhere on the web. As has been mentioned before, this is definitely the best Ham forum on the internet! 
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Posted: 4/15/2014 10:46:35 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BigDaddy, Thanks for the time, effort and expense to run these experiments and post the resulting data for us. The approach and detail is amazing compared to what is usually found in equipment reviews elsewhere on the web. As has been mentioned before, this is definitely the best Ham forum on the internet! You're very welcome! This is the greatest place to experiment and have questions answered , ain't it? What a great bunch of folks!
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Posted: 4/21/2014 7:13:45 PM EDT
[#32]
Well, I managed to finally get my KX3 to automatically reduce power due to "Hi Temp". This was with the new N8WTT heatsink. Had it on since I got home from work about 2000Z. Over the next 5 hours I was in and out of the shack, cherry picking interesting stations when I saw them. Almost entirely at 5w output. That is until I saw an Asiatic Russian station calling CQ. Tried a few times at 5w, but no dice. Turned it up to Max (12w with 13.8VDC from the power supply). The max with battery power is normally 10w. PAI and OSC temps climbed quickly to 60°C and 50°C respectively. At 61°C PAI, received a "HI TEMP" warning and the power output automatically cut back to 5w. Reduced power out to demanding 5w on the next round and only got about 2.5w on the power meter. Let it cool down for several minutes and again tried to TX @ 5w, this time successfully. I usually have the ceiling fan in the shack on, but did not have it on when this happened.
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Posted: 4/21/2014 7:38:05 PM EDT
[#33]
I am guessing you did not get the Asiatic Russia station?
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Posted: 4/21/2014 7:52:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am guessing you did not get the Asiatic Russia station? LOL! Not with the Fire Department banging on the door to put the fire out!
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Posted: 4/21/2014 7:54:08 PM EDT
[#35]
I didn't perform the temp comp procedure with my KX3 personally. So I have a lot of unanswered questions about how this is done.
The Elecraft XG50 is a simple 49.380 MHz signal source specifically designed for use with the KX3 Extended VFO Temperature Compensation Procedure. Powered from a 12VDC source, the XG50 produces a stable -36dBm signal. ( 0.000251 mW ) I ordered an Elecraft XG50 Kit to help perform this procedure. The plan is to build the small kit, perform the procedure, and then ship (on my dime) the XG50 to who ever wants to use it for their own KX3. When that person is finished, he can ship it to anyone else that needs to use it. 
Not mine, but this sample is what it'll look like. 
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Posted: 4/22/2014 7:55:27 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't perform the temp comp procedure with my KX3 personally. So I have a lot of unanswered questions about how this is done. The Elecraft XG50 is a simple 49.380 MHz signal source specifically designed for use with the KX3 Extended VFO Temperature Compensation Procedure. Powered from a 12VDC source, the XG50 produces a stable -36dBm signal. ( 0.000251 mW ) I ordered an Elecraft XG50 Kit to help perform this procedure. The plan is to build the small kit, perform the procedure, and then ship (on my dime) the XG50 to who ever wants to use it for their own KX3. When that person is finished, he can ship it to anyone else that needs to use it. http://home.comcast.net/~gregbell/Elecraft XG50 Manual Pic of Board.jpg Not mine, but this sample is what it'll look like. http://home.comcast.net/~gregbell/Elecraft XG50 Red.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~gregbell/Elecraft XG50 Green Front.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~gregbell/Elecraft XG50 Green Rear.jpg First dibs! |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 8:02:32 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't perform the temp comp procedure with my KX3 personally. So I have a lot of unanswered questions about how this is done. The Elecraft XG50 is a simple 49.380 MHz signal source specifically designed for use with the KX3 Extended VFO Temperature Compensation Procedure. Powered from a 12VDC source, the XG50 produces a stable -36dBm signal. ( 0.000251 mW ) I ordered an Elecraft XG50 Kit to help perform this procedure. The plan is to build the small kit, perform the procedure, and then ship (on my dime) the XG50 to who ever wants to use it for their own KX3. When that person is finished, he can ship it to anyone else that needs to use it. http://home.comcast.net/~gregbell/Elecraft XG50 Manual Pic of Board.jpg Not mine, but this sample is what it'll look like. http://home.comcast.net/~gregbell/Elecraft XG50 Red.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~gregbell/Elecraft XG50 Green Front.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~gregbell/Elecraft XG50 Green Rear.jpg Very nice!
What does it do?
Edit: perhaps if I actually read the post that I quoted I would be better off.  I think I get it now...
Interested because I'm very close to pulling the trigger on one for some camping/hiking this summer. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 4:59:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, I managed to finally get my KX3 to automatically reduce power due to "Hi Temp". And I may have hurt the radio some, too. It no longer takes dozens of TX's to reach the temp limit (and it only did that once ). Now when TXing @ just 5w for a JT65 QSO, the power cuts back almost immediately to 2.5w. It's almost as if heat tranfer paste has burned or melted away, and the heat can't dissipate through the heatsink like it did before. This is just a gut feeling from the way it acted before and how it's changed now. Anyone seen or heard anything like this? |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 5:09:05 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And I may have hurt the radio some, too. It no longer takes dozens of TX's to reach the temp limit (and it only did that once ). Now when TXing @ just 5w for a JT65 QSO, the power cuts back almost immediately to 2.5w. It's almost as if heat tranfer paste has burned or melted away, and the heat can't dissipate through the heatsink like it did before. This is just a gut feeling from the way it acted before and how it's changed now. Anyone seen or heard anything like this? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well, I managed to finally get my KX3 to automatically reduce power due to "Hi Temp". And I may have hurt the radio some, too. It no longer takes dozens of TX's to reach the temp limit (and it only did that once ). Now when TXing @ just 5w for a JT65 QSO, the power cuts back almost immediately to 2.5w. It's almost as if heat tranfer paste has burned or melted away, and the heat can't dissipate through the heatsink like it did before. This is just a gut feeling from the way it acted before and how it's changed now. Anyone seen or heard anything like this? Sounds more like something may have come loose (or the heat made the paste ooze out) You may want to snug things back up |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 1:47:21 PM EDT
[#40]
The molten pools of goo must have solidified. TX'd a CQ at 12w, then reduced to 5w to complete the JT65 QSO. Didn't get nearly as hot as it did before.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 1:31:28 PM EDT
[#41]
I emailed Fred VE7FMN this afternoon for an update on when the new heatsink would ship. He emailed, texted, and called me from Canada to say it should be here today! We chatted about the heatsink and it's competitors while I drove home from work. Nice guy!
Received the new Fred VE7FMN Cooler KX heatsink today. It came very well packed in a USPS Priority Mail small flat rate box. It was surrounded by a solid block of styrofoam, sized to fit the box exactly, and relieved for the heatsink in the middle. The heatsink was wrapped in plastic bag. On each side of the heatsink was bubble wrap held in place by packing tape. The edges of the heatsink were taped to protect them. Nice job! *** Note that the bottom of the heatsink is not powder coated. Should help transfer the heat better. 
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Posted: 4/24/2014 2:44:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Also received the case for the Elecraft XG50. It was made on a 3D printer specifically for this application. Elecraft XG50 Case. Chris sent me 2 because the first one fit the circuit board a little snug, so he resized it to 101% and sent both. The XG50 should be here tomorrow, according to Elecrafts UPS package tracking.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 2:47:06 PM EDT
[#43]
F5
F5 F5 |
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Posted: 4/26/2014 7:03:54 PM EDT
[#44]
The new VE7FMN KX3 heatsink is installed and I gave it a little workout tonight @ 10w power output. It never exceeded 51°C PAI . Power rollback occurs at approx 60°C PAI. I'll try it some more tomorrow, but preliminary performance seems very good.
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Posted: 4/27/2014 3:12:00 AM EDT
[#45]
Interesting.
If it is assumed that your "work outs" were essentially the same (a poor assumption) AND that shack temperature was the same for all tests (data missing), then it would appear that worst case for stock was 54, worst case for the "little" heatsink was 52 and for the "big" heatsink was 51. Not a huge difference, although just eyeballing the data the average temp. seemed lower with the big heatsink, as it should. My take-aways are that if you are operating at 10W at less than 70F ambient then you don't need a better heatsink and that one can expect a maximum rise from ambient of approx. 30C with the big heatsink and 34C with the stock. This means the maximum ambient operating temp's for high power/high duty are 80 to 86F, depending on the heatsink. Did both heatsinks get the full "Dane Gardner" installation? In the future if somebody else decides to do this experiment better data could be obtained by performing a continuous key-down into a dummy load and graph the results minute by minute, understanding the final PA section temperature will be worse into less than perfect VSWR. Given BigDaddy's results, people having overheating problems are probably operating at elevated ambient temp's and/or into some higher VSWRs or at higher than 10W. |
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Posted: 4/27/2014 3:53:12 AM EDT
[#46]
Thanks for the update! Now we just need to get you the proaudioeng version(which is officially endorsed by the SideKX guy) for comparison !
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Posted: 4/27/2014 4:34:31 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did both heatsinks get the full "Dane Gardner" installation? None of the heatsinks got the full "Dane Gardner" installation. The only change was the heatsink itself. I have all the components for the full meal deal, but I'm not sure it's necessary for how most will operate the KX3. More than 2 or 3 hours at a time @ 10w is beyond my requirements for WSJT-X with JT65/JT9 operation using the KX3. For increased power and longer sessions, I'd just use my 7200. |
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Posted: 4/27/2014 4:50:32 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the update! Now we just need to get you the proaudioeng version(which is officially endorsed by the SideKX guy) for comparison ! You're welcome, echomancer. I wasn't aware of the Pro Audio Engineering version, but from the website it looks like it offers an additional 2in² of surface area. If someone would like to donate the Pro Audio Engineering version, I'll slap it on and give it a try.
Here's a very detailed temp/time chart from the Pro Audio Engineering site. 
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Posted: 4/27/2014 4:57:30 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
None of the heatsinks got the full "Dane Gardner" installation. The only change was the heatsink itself. I have all the components for the full meal deal, but I'm not sure it's necessary for how most will operate the KX3. More than 2 or 3 hours at a time @ 10w is beyond my requirements for WSJT-X with JT65/JT9 operation using the KX3. For increased power and longer sessions, I'd just use my 7200. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Did both heatsinks get the full "Dane Gardner" installation? None of the heatsinks got the full "Dane Gardner" installation. The only change was the heatsink itself. I have all the components for the full meal deal, but I'm not sure it's necessary for how most will operate the KX3. More than 2 or 3 hours at a time @ 10w is beyond my requirements for WSJT-X with JT65/JT9 operation using the KX3. For increased power and longer sessions, I'd just use my 7200. Ah, ok, that explains why the differences were not very dramatic. So the big heatsink alone equates to only about 5 degrees (generous) of operating temperature range. Dane reported 10 degrees of improvement with the small heatsink. It would be interesting to see what somebody got with the full "Gardner" treatment and the big heatsink. For a portable rig like the KX3, especially where it might be operated in direct sunlight, obtaining 10 or 15 degrees improvement in thermal rise could be very valuable. |
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Posted: 4/27/2014 8:00:16 AM EDT
[#50]
May get some time to build the XG50 signal source today.
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