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Posted: 4/2/2014 9:55:59 PM EDT
Thought it would be cool to have a thread on my current tower build. Will try to update it throughout the build.
Rohn 45G 60ft in 110MPH wind specs is the plan for the tower. The antenna will be a Mosley TA-63-N (6-20m) 6 element, 3 active with the 40m add-on kit (TA-40-KR). Staked off awaiting permit. 
The ribbon stakes are the tower foundation. The other squared off markers are the tail lines for the septic. Other markers represent either prop lines, set-backs, or anchor points for the guys. 130' from rear of the house. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 10:06:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Details on the tower and what's going to be on it?
What kind of documentation did you have to furnish for a permit? I know every area is different. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 10:11:49 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Details on the tower and what's going to be on it? What kind of documentation did you have to furnish for a permit? I know every area is different. I updated the original post with the Rohn 45G @ 60ft and antenna. This will be per the Rohn specs at 110 MPH wind speed. I basically took the Rohn specs had a PE signoff on them. I took that and my license to the county office. I'm not sure if the PE signoff is required, but I just wanted to make sure everything is a good as possible. |
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Posted: 4/2/2014 11:36:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Your tower build is looking good. Keep us updated.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 7:34:06 AM EDT
[#4]
Very nice. Make sure you tell the concrete supplier you need air entrained concrete for a communications tower base. Air entrainment guards against weathering and freeze thaw quite nicely.
Are you pouring yourself or are you getting a contractor? What about the tower itself? |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 8:05:00 AM EDT
[#5]
Nice. I've probably got a couple hundred feet of Rohn 25 sitting on the ground in my backyard. One day. Maybe. Looks like a fun project.
I helped a buddy of mine put up a 100-footer (I was his climber) and he loves it. 60 ain't too shabby. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:08:15 AM EDT
[#6]
I'm looking forward to your progress.
Have you seen the PVRC mast offset before? I would highly suggest thinking about it now, instead of after the fact when it is too late. If you need to replace an element or work on any part of your beam it allows you to rotate the entire assembly down and work on it in place, instead of having to lower your beam back to the ground and back up to the top. I don't explain it very well, but check out the site. A friend of mine has one on his tower and its really neat to see how it works in person. PVRC mast offset Good luck on your build! |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:48:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very nice. Make sure you tell the concrete supplier you need air entrained concrete for a communications tower base. Air entrainment guards against weathering and freeze thaw quite nicely. Are you pouring yourself or are you getting a contractor? What about the tower itself? My uncle is helping with the project. He's a commercial installer so that helps. Other than transporting the concrete, we will be doing the job ourselves. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:53:45 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice. I've probably got a couple hundred feet of Rohn 25 sitting on the ground in my backyard. One day. Maybe. Looks like a fun project. I helped a buddy of mine put up a 100-footer (I was his climber) and he loves it. 60 ain't too shabby. I was originally going to go with Rohn 25, but that would require two sets of guys. I also wouldn't have been able to get a rotor large enough to handle the beam on 25. 60' is highest we can go with one set of guys. More importantly, its the highest I can go per the zoning ordinances. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:54:47 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm looking forward to your progress. Have you seen the PVRC mast offset before? I would highly suggest thinking about it now, instead of after the fact when it is too late. If you need to replace an element or work on any part of your beam it allows you to rotate the entire assembly down and work on it in place, instead of having to lower your beam back to the ground and back up to the top. I don't explain it very well, but check out the site. A friend of mine has one on his tower and its really neat to see how it works in person. PVRC mast offset Good luck on your build! Cool idea. Thanks for the link. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 2:41:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was originally going to go with Rohn 25, but that would require two sets of guys. I also wouldn't have been able to get a rotor large enough to handle the beam on 25. 60' is highest we can go with one set of guys. More importantly, its the highest I can go per the zoning ordinances. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nice. I've probably got a couple hundred feet of Rohn 25 sitting on the ground in my backyard. One day. Maybe. Looks like a fun project. I helped a buddy of mine put up a 100-footer (I was his climber) and he loves it. 60 ain't too shabby. I was originally going to go with Rohn 25, but that would require two sets of guys. I also wouldn't have been able to get a rotor large enough to handle the beam on 25. 60' is highest we can go with one set of guys. More importantly, its the highest I can go per the zoning ordinances. Cool. I have a Moseley but can't recall which one. The rotor needs work. :-( |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:21:33 PM EDT
[#11]
I learned a couple of tricks when we installed my tower. The guy who was helping me does Tower and antenna installations for a living. Hopefully you can use some of it for your tower.
- Put 3-4 bags of crushed drainage stone on the bottom of the hole before installing a tower. Put the tower base into place, level it with a level. Use several 2x4s to keep it in place. Mix 3-4 bags of Quickrete in a wheelbarrow and carefully pour into the hole with the tower base in place. Check level again and allow at least 4-6 hours for the quickrete to set in. This will keep your tower base level and in place when you pour the remaining concrete from a concrete truck. You can't move the tower base once the hole is about half full. - We used 12 ft long, 6" diameter well casing pipes for the guy wire posts. This keeps the guy wire 6 ft off the ground to prevent people or deer running into it. - Make sure you place the guy wires exactly at 120 degrees, inline with the tower edges. Use guy wire grips on both ends (you wrap them around the wire, like a Chinese finger) - Use 4000PSI concrete and let it cure for 28 days. I'll post more once we get the antenna on the tower. Ready to pour concrete: 
Tower base in place with approx. 3 cubic yards of concrete. 
Guy wire post with guy wires attached. 
Rohn 25 tower, approx. 76ft tall. Two levels of guy wires at approximately 33 and 66ft. 
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:34:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Rebar cage? Make it yourself or have it made?
I know the box stores carry rebar but bending and cutting can be a royal pain without the right tools. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:54:01 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rebar cage? Make it yourself or have it made? I know the box stores carry rebar but bending and cutting can be a royal pain without the right tools. I have a couple of welders in the shop and made the cage myself. Notice the small L-shaped lug bolt welded to the top of the cage. It's used to connect the antenna to the cage so it can be used as an Ufer ground. We will also place three 8ft. grounding rods near the tower, spaced 15 ft. apart. #2 solid copper wire will be used for tower ground, cad welded to the grounding rods. I'll also install a perimeter ground around the shack and a few more grounding rods near the coax service entrance. Shack's electrical ground, coax service entrance box (with lightning arresters) and the tower will be bonded to establish a Single Point Grounding scheme. Rebar Cage: 
Rebar cage bonded to the tower using a stainless bonding clamp from DX Engineering: 
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Posted: 4/3/2014 7:04:50 PM EDT
[#14]
I am not fond of the idea of grounding the tower to the rebar cage.
I know you have a tower ground ring going in. What bothers me is any dissipation of a direct lightening strike on the tower thru the rebar cage can explode the concrete base.Concrete always contains some amount of trapped moisture. A strike will heat and the trapped moisture will explode the concrete. You mentioned you have welders in the shop, this is the same reason you never weld directly on top of concrete. Exploding concrete can be dangerous to the guy welding. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 7:14:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not fond of the idea of grounding the tower to the rebar cage. I know you have a tower ground ring going in. What bothers me is any dissipation of a direct lightening strike on the tower thru the rebar cage can explode the concrete base.Concrete always contains some amount of trapped moisture. A strike will heat and the trapped moisture will explode the concrete. You mentioned you have welders in the shop, this is the same reason you never weld directly on top of concrete. Exploding concrete can be dangerous to the guy welding. Ufer ground is very common. Actually not having the cage bonded to the tower may cause concrete to blow up. Google: Ufer and Tower Grounding. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 7:20:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Lots of different viewpoints on the rebar ground causing concrete to explode and I'll stay out of that discussion. One thing to consider though, isn't the tower base in the concrete just like rebar? Doesn't it carry most of the lightning strike? If the rebar made concrete explode, wouldn't the tower do so too, and even more? Just food for thought.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 7:26:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ufer ground is very common. Actually not having the cage bonded to the tower may cause concrete to blow up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I am not fond of the idea of grounding the tower to the rebar cage. I know you have a tower ground ring going in. What bothers me is any dissipation of a direct lightening strike on the tower thru the rebar cage can explode the concrete base.Concrete always contains some amount of trapped moisture. A strike will heat and the trapped moisture will explode the concrete. You mentioned you have welders in the shop, this is the same reason you never weld directly on top of concrete. Exploding concrete can be dangerous to the guy welding. Ufer ground is very common. Actually not having the cage bonded to the tower may cause concrete to blow up. Every tower company I know of says do not ground the rebar.to the tower. Polyphaser and ICE both say don't do it. If you are thinking that a tower hit would cause it to pass thru the concrete to the rebar causing an explosion, that is the reason for the ground ring outside the concrete base. You are providing a very low resistance path for the strike with the ring. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 7:34:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lots of different viewpoints on the rebar ground causing concrete to explode and I'll stay out of that discussion. One thing to consider though, isn't the tower base in the concrete just like rebar? Doesn't it carry most of the lightning strike? If the rebar made concrete explode, wouldn't the tower do so too, and even more? Just food for thought. Neither the tower or the rebar cage should be touching ground. Reason being is the bottom should be solid to prevent ground water from corroding the cage or tower. There should be a solid layer of concrete on the bottom. The tower should never touch the rebar cage. The concrete base only serves two purposes keep the tower from sinking and to keep the base from sliding out. The concrete base is not for supporting tower vertically that is the purpose of the guys. You could actually make a concrete base encasing the tower and rebar outside the hole. Then you would need a crane to place it in the hole and would be required to backfill and compact the ground in layers. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 7:43:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every tower company I know of says do not ground the rebar.to the tower. Polyphaser and ICE both say don't do it. If you are thinking that a tower hit would cause it to pass thru the concrete to the rebar causing an explosion, that is the reason for the ground ring outside the concrete base. You are providing a very low resistance path for the strike with the ring. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am not fond of the idea of grounding the tower to the rebar cage. I know you have a tower ground ring going in. What bothers me is any dissipation of a direct lightening strike on the tower thru the rebar cage can explode the concrete base.Concrete always contains some amount of trapped moisture. A strike will heat and the trapped moisture will explode the concrete. You mentioned you have welders in the shop, this is the same reason you never weld directly on top of concrete. Exploding concrete can be dangerous to the guy welding. Ufer ground is very common. Actually not having the cage bonded to the tower may cause concrete to blow up. Every tower company I know of says do not ground the rebar.to the tower. Polyphaser and ICE both say don't do it. If you are thinking that a tower hit would cause it to pass thru the concrete to the rebar causing an explosion, that is the reason for the ground ring outside the concrete base. You are providing a very low resistance path for the strike with the ring. It depends on how the rebar cage is done. Technically you are not supposed to weld the rebar pieces. Welding weakens its strength. My installation does not require much rebar strength and I had all pieces welded together. Connecting the tower to the welded rebar age will equalize the potentials and reduce the risk of damaging the concrete and will also help reduce grounding system impedance. I will definitely install additional ground around the tower and the shack and tie everything to a single point ground. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 7:48:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The concrete base only serves two purposes keep the tower from sinking and to keep the base from sliding out. The concrete base is not for supporting tower vertically that is the purpose of the guys. That's true for guyed towers, which the OP is installing. Freestanding towers rely solely on the base to stay upright though. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 8:03:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Thanks Gyprat!
I will be doing a pier pin so keeping it level shouldn't be an issue. Pier pin allows the base to twist a little. Plus I would think it's cheaper. My foundation per Rohn (CB1G), should be 2' 6 x 2' 6" x 4' . |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 8:19:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Why did you bury a section of tower in the the concrete as opposed to using a tower base plate?
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Posted: 4/3/2014 8:33:15 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why did you bury a section of tower in the the concrete as opposed to using a tower base plate? Because the tower guy recommended doing it this way. It turned out real good. I have another heavy duty 33ft telescoping, freestanding tower and plan to install it with three, 1 inch, grade 8 anchor bolts and a tower base. I'm thinking of using it for a 3 element cubic quad for 20,15 and 10m bands. At the pace I've been doing things, the cubic quad tower will be installed by the year of 2020.  
I'll sell the tower for $1,000 if anyone wants it. It weighs 450 lbs and measures 11ft long when retracted. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 8:36:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Nice install!
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Posted: 4/3/2014 8:42:15 PM EDT
[#25]
Sweet tower set up Gyprat! I would luv to have that puppy in my yard!
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Posted: 4/3/2014 8:57:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks Gyprat! I will be doing a pier pin so keeping it level shouldn't be an issue. Pier pin allows the base to twist a little. Plus I would think it's cheaper. My foundation per Rohn (CB1G), should be 2' 6 x 2' 6" x 4' . I did not mean to hijack your thread but I promised you to share what I learned. I would come over and help you if your QTH were a little closer. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:24:29 PM EDT
[#27]
No, I appreciate the insight. When's the Mosley going up on your tower?
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:34:07 PM EDT
[#28]
If you can afford it, hire a crane to do the antennas. I've got to say that was the easiest job I've ever done. When you're 100' in the air it's so nice to know that all the hard work is being done by the crane operator. All you have to do is line it up and bolt it down. The guy we had was awesome. By the time I'd climbed to the top he'd already threaded the u-bolts around the mast and was just waiting for me. No idea how in the hell he eyeballed it from the ground like that. I installed two beams for him and the crane work was done in about 30 min. Of course it took me a bit longer to weatherproof all the connections and secure the cabling on the way down.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:44:24 PM EDT
[#29]
Yeah getting the antenna up is going to be a pain. My longest element is 29.5ft. Gyprat has the monster 44ft. Waiting for him to tell me the tricks.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 11:07:55 PM EDT
[#30]
3 cubic yards are you're worried about lightening?
I'd feel pretty good about it against aerial bombardment! |
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Posted: 4/4/2014 7:53:49 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah getting the antenna up is going to be a pain. My longest element is 29.5ft. Gyprat has the monster 44ft. Waiting for him to tell me the tricks. You can do it with a gin pole but the crane makes it super easy.  In my experience, the less the guy on the tower has to worry about the better. Namely because the guy on the tower was always me.
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Posted: 4/4/2014 12:34:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can do it with a gin pole but the crane makes it super easy. In my experience, the less the guy on the tower has to worry about the better. Namely because the guy on the tower was always me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yeah getting the antenna up is going to be a pain. My longest element is 29.5ft. Gyprat has the monster 44ft. Waiting for him to tell me the tricks. You can do it with a gin pole but the crane makes it super easy. In my experience, the less the guy on the tower has to worry about the better. Namely because the guy on the tower was always me. Last August I nearly dropped a 6m beam I was trying to install on a friends tower. Beams are the worst. The 10/15/20m beam on there took two of us on the tower with two of the guys off the tower to allow us to maneuver it up. Once we got it up there it wasn't a big deal. I have a video of a 50 ft install in Brownfield, TX that I put up. It's a little long but it's not too bad. K5OCQ Tower Install Here is a picture or two of the beam we put up on my friends tower. 
I've only ever put up Rohn 25…taken down everything from 25-55. Won't touch the Armalite towers if I have to take them down. |
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Posted: 4/4/2014 1:59:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, I appreciate the insight. When's the Mosley going up on your tower? Realistically we should get it up sometime in early May. I need to rent a Ditch-Witch and a large hammer drill to install the shack perimeter ground and the tower ground. There will be to total of ten 8ft grounding rods plus the Ufer ground in the tower base. I also need to mount a coax entry box with Polyphaser lightning arresters for coax and the rotator cable. LMR400 coax will be used for the HF beam and we'll install a hardline coax for the small Cushcraft 5 element VHF/UHF vertically polarized beam. |
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Posted: 4/4/2014 8:42:26 PM EDT
[#34]
If it falls will it miss those powerlines?
(they look close) |
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Posted: 4/4/2014 9:03:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Here are some of my buddy's install.
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Posted: 4/4/2014 9:22:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it falls will it miss those powerlines? (they look close) The tower is actually taller than the lot is wide. It's withstood 100+ mph without an issue to this point. |
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Posted: 4/4/2014 9:29:10 PM EDT
[#37]
The zoning here says:
no antenna support structure may be located closer to any property line or street line than a
distance equal to one-half of the height of the antenna support structure Even after confirming this with the office, my tower can fall and land half of its body on my neighbors property. 
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Posted: 4/4/2014 9:41:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Can you guys recommend a tower climbing harness? I'll need to get one to hang a few dipoles once the HF beam is installed.
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Posted: 4/4/2014 10:37:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The zoning here says: Even after confirming this with the office, my tower can fall and land half of its body on my neighbors property. Quote HistoryQuoted:
The zoning here says: no antenna support structure may be located closer to any property line or street line than a
distance equal to one-half of the height of the antenna support structure Even after confirming this with the office, my tower can fall and land half of its body on my neighbors property. Join the ARRL and you'll not have to worry about it. |
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Posted: 4/4/2014 11:09:18 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you guys recommend a tower climbing harness? I'll need to get one to hang a few dipoles once the HF beam is installed. I can't. I use a lineman's belt with a tower hook. I can't stand the harnesses. The guys who taught me just use the belt, no tower hook. There actually isn't any zoning where I am when it comes to antennas. Also, after a structure has been erected for 3 months it becomes a mute point as it is officially part of the property. |
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Posted: 4/4/2014 11:30:38 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you guys recommend a tower climbing harness? I'll need to get one to hang a few dipoles once the HF beam is installed. I've got a real nice Miller. I'll see if I can find a model marking on it. I'm a huge fan of the pelican hook. It makes securing/unsecuring yourself to the tower super fast. However, they don't seem to take the abuse very well. I'm figuring they aren't designed to work at an angle which is how I connect to the tower so I'm not just sliding along a rung. I'd go through one a year. I back that up with a 6' shock absorbing lanyard. I'm I'm going to be at the top (like putting antennas on a mast above the top tower section) I use a 6' lanyard that I'll wrap around the mast to hold me close. In the last pic I posted you can see all of that. The pelican hook is to the left. This was a rare moment where it was straight since I was at the top of the tower and didn't have many options. The grey line is the 6' lanyard. The shock absorber is to the left of the hook. Not sure about the other yellow lanyard. I can't recall why I would've had that many. |
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Posted: 4/5/2014 4:43:44 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The zoning here says: Even after confirming this with the office, my tower can fall and land half of its body on my neighbors property. Quote HistoryQuoted: The zoning here says: no antenna support structure may be located closer to any property line or street line than a distance equal to one-half of the height of the antenna support structure Even after confirming this with the office, my tower can fall and land half of its body on my neighbors property. |
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Posted: 4/5/2014 9:04:48 AM EDT
[#43]
That's what happened to my buddy. I don't recall the specifics but he lost it during a tropical storm. This is the old base. You can see how two of the legs collapsed.
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Posted: 4/5/2014 10:19:44 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's what happened to my buddy. I don't recall the specifics but he lost it during a tropical storm. This is the old base. You can see how two of the legs collapsed. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/fotomonkey/radio/towers/barber/IMG_3915.jpg Was it guyed? Guyed towers typically won't buckle like that unless one of guy systems for one side completely fails (it's rare). |
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Posted: 4/5/2014 11:07:20 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's what happened to my buddy. I don't recall the specifics but he lost it during a tropical storm. This is the old base. You can see how two of the legs collapsed. Looking at that picture I would guess that the bolts were missing from the far side leg when it came down. That leg is still straight, the bolts aren't in the pic, there is no sign of them being pulled out, and the tower fell over to the other direction. I would also guess it was free standing or bracketed to the edge of the roof. |
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Posted: 4/5/2014 9:37:22 PM EDT
[#46]
I have no idea. I never saw the original tower. Based on how he did the second one maybe he learned some valuable (and expensive) lessons.
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Posted: 4/18/2014 11:05:44 AM EDT
[#47]
$350 for stamped engineered drawings. I'm going to be broke before even getting this thing up on the air.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 4:59:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$350 for stamped engineered drawings. I'm going to be broke before even getting this thing up on the air. Why do you need a permit? Do you live within the city limits? |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 5:08:22 PM EDT
[#49]
Please use a harness. I have a fair bit of climbing experience and have seen bad things happen with belts. I went looking for pictures but all I had on had where old an not very good. But here they are anyway.
I used this harness (my favorite) 
On this rig 
To take this picture about 200' up 
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:52:52 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do you need a permit? Do you live within the city limits? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
$350 for stamped engineered drawings. I'm going to be broke before even getting this thing up on the air. Why do you need a permit? Do you live within the city limits? It's not required. But, before any of my neighbors raise shit about it, I wanted to make sure I had everything covered. This isn't something I want to have to do over again. |
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