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Posted: 12/30/2011 6:36:21 AM EDT
[#1]
I have a 31'.
Just a wire in a collapsible tube. If you're not planning on going "portable" a lot, a vertical wire in a tree is fine. |
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Posted: 12/30/2011 6:36:42 AM EDT
[#2]
A 43' vertical for 80 seems like a recipe for disappointment.
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Posted: 12/30/2011 7:15:10 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
A 43' vertical for 80 seems like a recipe for disappointment. Harry, this is what you said last year about Jazzemt's review of this antenna. Originally Posted 12/15/2010 11:23:48 AM EST By HarryStone:
That's pretty slick, and you sure can't beat the price. Quoted:
The performance of the antenna to me is impressive. I tested it against my windom that is cut for 80. On average I increased my receive between a half to whole s-unit over my windom on 80. It was a dead heat for 40 and I have yet to test it on 20 or 30. I tested using the pipe as the ground with no radials and with four fifty foot long radials. The radials improved my signal reports to stations on all bands by usually one s-unit vs using the ground pipe itself. I am planning on installing 12 radials minimum for a long term installation. All of this was done with the on board tuner on my Yaesu FT-1000Mp Mkv. Sounds promising, to me. |
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Posted: 12/30/2011 7:27:24 AM EDT
[#4]
I run the DX Engineering 43' because I'm tree deprived here. It's the best antenna I've ever owned,
hands down, and practically had me in tears over the years I wasted on the conventional wisdom that a dipole is the perfect antenna (they always leave out the "mounted 1/2 wavelength above ground" when they say that.) Normally the "big radiator" of a 3" tube helps with bandwidth, but you need a tuner with a 43' regardless. What I would suggest is getting a balun and a SGC unit and putting it at the base of a wire vertical with 16 0.1 WL ground radials, using the tree as a vertical support. Then try it out. You'll always have a use for the balun and tuner, and if it works and you want to upgrade, add the hardware. As for 80M, it's not perfect, but it works pretty well. I think I had the third biggest signal on the nets the last two days on 80M. I'll try to post some pics of my setup later today. |
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Posted: 12/30/2011 8:47:45 AM EDT
[#5]
I wanted one befozre ldg bought them out .
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Posted: 12/30/2011 10:21:10 AM EDT
[#6]
Here's what I think I'll try... Convert one of my current wire antennas into a vertical. I already have an UnUn that can probably handle the low power for digital operation, but I'll buy a more appropriate QRO capable replacement. Just need to get the slingshot out and find a convenient branch for support.
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Posted: 12/30/2011 10:44:05 AM EDT
[#7]
I'd lose the crappie pole and just anchor the wire on the ground (any weight will do) and put some tension on it
(weight attached to a cord thrown over a high brianch, then cord attached to wire.) Most important part of a vertical antenna is the radial system. Minimum is about 16 0.1 WL radials, ideal is ~32 0.25 WL radials where WL is the lowest band you plan on using. SteppIR has a really good paper on radial systems for verticals that shows the best payoff per length of wire. |
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Posted: 12/30/2011 10:48:50 AM EDT
[#8]
A 43' vertical is a pretty decent multi-band antenna. See the VK1OD article below. If you've got a tree to support it, I'd do away with the pole and just run a wire vertical. 43' of wire is 43' of wire, whether it's on a pole or hung from a tree.
Use a 4:1 unun at the base (balundesigns.com) with a tuner in the shack. Better yet, put a remote tuner (e.g. AH-4, SG-230) at the base of the antenna. For monoband use on 80, you could base load it. See the AD5X article below. Remember that your vertical is only as good as its ground system. What are your plans there? I'd probably put down at least 15 radials. The more the better. You don't need to spend the money for a fancy radial plate - use an inexpensive ground bus bar or a stainless kitchen sink strainer instead. 26AWG wire is OK for 100W but I'd probably use 14AWG if you have plans for QRO. Good luck with it. 73. AD5X Article VK1OD Article |
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Posted: 12/30/2011 11:31:33 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: I run the DX Engineering 43' because I'm tree deprived here. It's the best antenna I've ever owned, hands down, and practically had me in tears over the years I wasted on the conventional wisdom that a dipole is the perfect antenna (they always leave out the "mounted 1/2 wavelength above ground" when they say that.) Normally the "big radiator" of a 3" tube helps with bandwidth, but you need a tuner with a 43' regardless. What I would suggest is getting a balun and a SGC unit and putting it at the base of a wire vertical with 16 0.1 WL ground radials, using the tree as a vertical support. Then try it out. You'll always have a use for the balun and tuner, and if it works and you want to upgrade, add the hardware. As for 80M, it's not perfect, but it works pretty well. I think I had the third biggest signal on the nets the last two days on 80M. I'll try to post some pics of my setup later today. That's a great setup. I have basicly an identical setup, except at the top of my vertical I have a pvc standoff and run an inverted V 70' wire up and over it...attached to another SG-230. This allown me the NVIS capability I need for Texas Army MARS comms. The pvc standoff is to negate coupling with the aluminum mast. Your vertical will keep getting better and better the more/longer ground radials you add. That is my only shortfall on mine as it's attached to my RV and I'm limmited as to the radials I can deploy in an RV park.  |
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Posted: 1/8/2012 6:34:00 AM EDT
[#10]
OK...With my trusty slingshot / fishing reel setup, I've managed to get a line over one of the tall branches almost directly over the back fence.
Does the antenna wire need to be exactly 43' long, or do I want a little extra for trimming 
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Posted: 1/8/2012 6:57:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Nice work. I'd trim it for 43' (or 13 meters (about 42' 8") if you're following the VK1OD article) and put it up. You don't need to leave extra length to fine tune it, since it's not going to be resonant anywhere you care about. That length was chosen as a compromise to give reasonable performance on multiple bands.
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Posted: 1/8/2012 7:18:31 AM EDT
[#12]
IIRC, you bought a spool of wire back when?
Ill donate some wire to ya BD if you go that route.
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Posted: 1/8/2012 7:37:43 AM EDT
[#13]
Thanks for the help, Gubernator and VRMN8R. I think I still have enough wire for this experiment, anyway.
This is the overhead of my QTH. The back fence is 60' wide and the sides are about 42' long. This is the area I have to work with for the radial system. On the other side of the fence I can put them down pretty much where I want since it's in the woods. 
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Posted: 1/8/2012 7:42:12 AM EDT
[#14]
Hey BigDaddy––you own all those trees? If you do, I see a very big wire loop in your future...
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Posted: 1/8/2012 7:43:40 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: BD, your house looks like almost every other house.Thanks for the help, Gubernator and VRMN8R. I think I still have enough wire for this experiment, anyway. This is the overhead of my QTH. The back fence is 60' wide and the sides are about 45' long. This is the area I have to work with for the radial system. On the other side of the fence I can put them down pretty much where I want since it's in the woods. http://home.comcast.net/~gregbell/My House Google Earth View Marked Up For Radials.jpg Do you drink at all????????  Id hate to try and open up the wrong house.
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Posted: 1/8/2012 7:46:53 AM EDT
[#16]
I've got a similar setup at my QTH with undeveloped land behind me. I put most of my radials on that side of the fence with just a few running into my yard. It's not ideal but it's what I've got to work with.
Here's a good article on optimizing radial length/number for a given amount of wire: Maximum-Gain Radial Ground Systems for Vertical Antennas |
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Posted: 1/8/2012 7:54:17 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Hey BigDaddy––you own all those trees? If you do, I see a very big wire loop in your future... My tax dollars pay for the common area / easement...I'd have to be sneaky about it! 
Quoted:
BD, your house looks like almost every other house. It's camouflage...the whole "Grey Man" deal, not drawing attention to myself (like with a bright orange EmComm box). 
Quoted:
I'm married with 2 young kids...of course I drink! I just wait 'till I'm already home before I hit the bottle! Do you drink at all????????...I'd hate to try and open up the wrong house.  
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Posted: 1/8/2012 8:07:42 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
I run the DX Engineering 43' because I'm tree deprived here.. Maybe there's a government program out there for people like you.
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Posted: 1/8/2012 8:10:31 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: I run the DX Engineering 43' because I'm tree deprived here.. Maybe there's a government program out there for people like you.  |
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Posted: 1/8/2012 8:41:21 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I run the DX Engineering 43' because I'm tree deprived here.. Maybe there's a government program out there for people like you. I'm guessing they have trees at the FEMA camps, but no radio.  I suspect that's the only program I qualify for...
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Posted: 1/13/2012 9:01:22 AM EDT
[#21]
Oooopppssss! I had a negligent discharge and bought a S9V43. I had a couple of tabs open comparing prices and...click! I didn't think it was loaded, really...
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Posted: 1/13/2012 9:08:40 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Oooopppssss! I had a negligent discharge and bought a S9V43. I had a couple of tabs open comparing prices and...click! I didn't think it was loaded, really... We won't tell the boss as long as we get a detailed review.I did the same thing with a power supply after Christmas. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/13/2012 4:27:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: I run the DX Engineering 43' because I'm tree deprived here. It's the best antenna I've ever owned, hands down, and practically had me in tears over the years I wasted on the conventional wisdom that a dipole is the perfect antenna (they always leave out the "mounted 1/2 wavelength above ground" when they say that.) Normally the "big radiator" of a 3" tube helps with bandwidth, but you need a tuner with a 43' regardless. What I would suggest is getting a balun and a SGC unit and putting it at the base of a wire vertical with 16 0.1 WL ground radials, using the tree as a vertical support. Then try it out. You'll always have a use for the balun and tuner, and if it works and you want to upgrade, add the hardware. As for 80M, it's not perfect, but it works pretty well. I think I had the third biggest signal on the nets the last two days on 80M. I'll try to post some pics of my setup later today. I concur on the SG-230. I'd rather spend the money on an sg-230 and be able to run multiple antenna configurations...than spend money on an antenna which locks you into making that antenna work. Seriously, go to SGC's website and read their manuals. You'll be amazed at the various antenna configurations you can cobble up with great results. Verticals, loops, end fed random length, inverted V, dipole. windom....they're all viable choices that work very well when used in conjunction with an SG-230. |
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Posted: 1/13/2012 5:18:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
It's camouflage...the whole "Grey Man" deal, not drawing attention to myself (like with a bright orange EmComm box). your panties are knotted again.
ar-jedi ps: 
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Posted: 1/13/2012 5:38:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Check out the HUSTLER trap verticals
They are cheap and work very well. http://www.dxengineering.com/Parts.asp?ID=3434&PLID=141&SecID=16&DeptID={A901CC0B-61B3-48E7-A24E-DE529B989EE9}&PartNo=HUS-5BTV |
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Posted: 1/13/2012 5:41:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
I concur on the SG-230. I'd rather spend the money on an sg-230 and be able to run multiple antenna configurations...than spend money on an antenna which locks you into making that antenna work. Seriously, go to SGC's website and read their manuals. You'll be amazed at the various antenna configurations you can cobble up with great results. Verticals, loops, end fed random length, inverted V, dipole. windom....they're all viable choices that work very well when used in conjunction with an SG-230. I seriously did look at the SG-230, but to me it was just too expensive to even consider. I've heard your (and several other members) arguments in favor of it. And I really respect your opinion on this. I'd like to be a member of that club...really, I'm not being sarcastic. But, the asking price of that "antenna match" is more than twice the cost of my lowly LDG IT-100 that's just "fooled" my radio into thinking it's really matched to my wire up in the trees (that I've talked around the world with). IMHO, an SG-230 is not the best place for me to spend the limited amount of $ I have left at the end of the day to play radio with. After OD paint jobs! We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Universal Radio Price: SGC SG-230
(SGC #54-14) Order #2834 List Price: $594.95 Your Price: $549.95 |
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Posted: 1/13/2012 5:47:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
your panties are knotted again.
ar-jedi John Winger: Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual.
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Posted: 1/13/2012 6:22:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Check out the HUSTLER trap verticals They are cheap and work very well. http://www.dxengineering.com/Parts.asp?ID=3434&PLID=141&SecID=16&DeptID={A901CC0B-61B3-48E7-A24E-DE529B989EE9}&PartNo=HUS-5BTV I was on DXEngineering's site looking at all of their vertical antenna offerings. Talk about sensory overload! Hell, they must have over a dozen different configurations of vertical antennas. What kept me from buying one of them instead of the S9v43 I ultimately did buy, was they are all shiny aluminum constructions that would draw too much attention in my antenna restricted neighborhood. |
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Posted: 1/13/2012 6:23:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Youve demonstrated excellent abilities in spray painting. Ive seen it. Quoted: Check out the HUSTLER trap verticals They are cheap and work very well. http://www.dxengineering.com/Parts.asp?ID=3434&PLID=141&SecID=16&DeptID={A901CC0B-61B3-48E7-A24E-DE529B989EE9}&PartNo=HUS-5BTV I was on DXEngineering's site looking at all of their vertical antenna offerings. Talk about sensory overload! Hell, they must have over a dozen different configurations of vertical antennas. What kept me from buying one of them instead of the S9v43 I ultimately did buy, was they are all shiny aluminum constructions that would draw too much attention in my antenna restricted neighborhood. |
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Posted: 1/13/2012 6:28:52 PM EDT
[#30]
years ago, I had a cushcraft trap vert.
I krylon'd it and it was very hard to see. |
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Posted: 1/13/2012 6:30:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Check out the HUSTLER trap verticals They are cheap and work very well. http://www.dxengineering.com/Parts.asp?ID=3434&PLID=141&SecID=16&DeptID={A901CC0B-61B3-48E7-A24E-DE529B989EE9}&PartNo=HUS-5BTV I was on DXEngineering's site looking at all of their vertical antenna offerings. Talk about sensory overload! Hell, they must have over a dozen different configurations of vertical antennas. What kept me from buying one of them instead of the S9v43 I ultimately did buy, was they are all shiny aluminum constructions that would draw too much attention in my antenna restricted neighborhood. Funny you should say that, I started painting mine tonight to make it blend in a little better. They're really nice antennas. |
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Posted: 1/13/2012 6:33:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I concur on the SG-230. I'd rather spend the money on an sg-230 and be able to run multiple antenna configurations...than spend money on an antenna which locks you into making that antenna work. Seriously, go to SGC's website and read their manuals. You'll be amazed at the various antenna configurations you can cobble up with great results. Verticals, loops, end fed random length, inverted V, dipole. windom....they're all viable choices that work very well when used in conjunction with an SG-230. I seriously did look at the SG-230, but to me it was just too expensive to even consider. I've heard your (and several other members) arguments in favor of it. And I really respect your opinion on this. I'd like to be a member of that club...really, I'm not being sarcastic. But, the asking price of that "antenna match" is more than twice the cost of my lowly LDG IT-100 that's just "fooled" my radio into thinking it's really matched to my wire up in the trees (that I've talked around the world with). IMHO, an SG-230 is not the best place for me to spend the limited amount of $ I have left at the end of the day to play radio with. After OD paint jobs! We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Universal Radio Price: SGC SG-230
(SGC #54-14) Order #2834 List Price: $594.95 Your Price: $549.95 I've been running a SG-237, and UPS just dropped off a -239 tonight, which is sub $200 but needs an enclosure. My plan is to mount it, a couple alpha-delta lightening supressors, a DC bias T and a balun and put it all in a pelican case. So don't discount a SGC unit, and unless you're running power, you don't have to get the -230. I would say you want to get something that can handle slightly more power (the -237 does 40W continuous and I discovered during digital nights I was routinely exceeding that by a significant margin, hence the upgrade.) |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 11:50:24 AM EDT
[#33]
Preparing for the S9v43 arrival in a couple of days. Got the galvanized 1-1/2 " x 54" long antenna support pipe and marked the 19" that will be exposed above ground.
Also mailed a copy of the receipt with the rebate form for the FREE RU-4:1 UnUn. 
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:28:52 PM EDT
[#34]
They make a green UNUN .... Thats its Im ordering it ...
No Comment on your pole .... I make it a policy not to along with no talking in the bathroom. |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 5:54:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Preparing for the S9v43 arrival in a couple of days. Got the galvanized 1-1/2 " x 54" long antenna support pipe and marked the 19" that will be exposed above ground. Also mailed a copy of the receipt with the rebate form for the FREE RU-4:1 UnUn. http://home.comcast.net/~gregbell/54 inch long 1-1_5 support pipe.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~gregbell/54 inch long 1-1_5 support pipe close.jpg http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/4687lrg.jpg A good sledgehammer will be your friend. I used my 50#er and it went in with just a few hits. |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 6:10:01 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
A good sledgehammer will be your friend. I used my 50#er and it went in with just a few hits. That yellow-handled thing in the top photo above is a 10#er, so it may take more than a few hits with the frozen ground! I was wondering if you'd notice this thread since I know you have one. I think I even saw yours last year at Field Day, right Jazzemt? 
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Posted: 1/16/2012 7:41:47 AM EDT
[#37]
Laid some pipe this morning. Then I pounded in the antenna support.
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Posted: 1/16/2012 8:35:26 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Laid some pipe this morning. Then I pounded in the antenna support.
http://home.comcast.net/~gregbell/Antenna Support Pipe Installed.jpg That's a fine lookin' quarter-wave 2M vertical you have there.
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Posted: 1/16/2012 8:58:58 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Laid some pipe this morning. Then I pounded in the antenna support.
http://home.comcast.net/~gregbell/Antenna Support Pipe Installed.jpg That's a fine lookin' quarter-wave 2M vertical you have there. It's cold outside...
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Posted: 1/17/2012 4:38:43 PM EDT
[#40]
The UPS guy knows my dog's name...is that a sign? S9v43 antenna and accessories arrived today. Thunderstorms(!) this morning, snow tonight, WTFO?
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Posted: 1/19/2012 3:34:09 PM EDT
[#41]
After I put the new S9v43 up, the green color kinda stood out from the winter brown of the woods. A little Krylon ultra flat brown made the 43' vertical look like just another sapling. Have the radial plate and (20) 32' radials, but not installed yet. Still need to make some longer radials while waiting for the 4:1 UnUn to show up.
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Posted: 1/19/2012 3:49:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Blends in nice, a little bit of grey on that and it'll be undetectable at 10 feet!
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Posted: 1/19/2012 4:02:34 PM EDT
[#43]
That looks great! I'm also going to show this to my friend who said it was too cold out to install a vertical antenna.
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Posted: 1/19/2012 4:44:43 PM EDT
[#44]
Great photos as usual BigDaddy!!
Thanks for sharing!! |
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Posted: 1/19/2012 5:20:06 PM EDT
[#45]
He could still hide a loop in those trees!
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Posted: 1/19/2012 5:23:24 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: He could still hide a dead body loop in those trees! |
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Posted: 1/19/2012 5:37:44 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
He could still hide a dead body loop in those trees! A good friend will help you move. A really good friend will help you move a body.
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Posted: 1/19/2012 5:42:21 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
A good sledgehammer will be your friend. I used my 50#er and it went in with just a few hits. That yellow-handled thing in the top photo above is a 10#er, so it may take more than a few hits with the frozen ground! I was wondering if you'd notice this thread since I know you have one. I think I even saw yours last year at Field Day, right Jazzemt?
Sure did. We are planning a bigger field day this year if you are interested. |
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Posted: 1/24/2012 6:56:52 PM EDT
[#49]
A quiet night at home. So, while watching Kill Bill 2, had a chance to attach (20) radials 32' long to the radial plate.
In the box are radial anchor staples. In the glass is a special lubricant called Sam Adams Winter Lager.
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Posted: 1/26/2012 2:10:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
... mailed a copy of the receipt with the rebate form for the FREE RU-4:1 UnUn. Received the UnUn in the mail today, 11 days from when I mailed in the rebate form.
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