I have limited elk experience (shot 1). Preliminary planning for a 2017 elk hunt. I have a 16" 308 bolt gun and a 270 bolt gun and I shoot both well.  My load in the 270 is a Barnes 130 TTSX. In the 308 I shoot a 165 Hornady SST. I'm thinking I want a 180 accubond, partition or TTSX. I probably will only get around 2500 fps.

I'd like to be confident in taking a 400-500 yards, so I'll put the range time in to be able to do my part. Would you feel confident that the bullet would be sufficient at that distance to deliver a quick kill?  

I just don't know if that's realistic. I'd prefer not to go buy a 300 win mag, but that's my plan B.

Convince me my 308 is enough tool for the job...or not.

Update:

I bought a 300 win and it really likes 190gr Barnes TTSX.  The 270 will be along as my backup for the hunt.  Thanks for all the input.  My deciding factor was that 300+ shots are likely in the area.

Ive dropped 2 med size elk with a 308, neither went more than 10 yds.  Both were shoulder shots, under 50 yds and a 16" LR.  I've also turned down some 4-500 yd shots with that rifle, just too iffy for me.

I think a 308 is a good elk round, till you have to take the longer shots.  I end up in the timber 90% of the time, so it's an easy choice for me.

I used these with a moderate charge of Tac under them.  Only recovered this one bullet so far, and it had smashed up both front shoulders, so I think it held up pretty well.

That's what I had loaded in my 300 WSM which I foolishly sold last year.

@ those ranges you might have better terminal ballistics with your .270 than a 16" .308 ? Exterior ballistics should be a bit better also.

Nosler shows the 180 as being optimal at 1800 fps... The ballistic chart says with a muzzle velocity of 2500 it will drop to around 1775 fps at 500 yards..

And using a 165 gr Sierra Gamekings  starting at 2850 fps at the muzzle....it drops to 1800 fps just past 500 yards....

Barnes TTSX 180 gr hit 1800 around 425 yards

And 168 gr TTSX starting at 2850.....gets all the way out to 600 yards

I think you would be good with the acculoads if that is what you want

True.  And the 165 gr 308 will treat you better at 400.

What part of the state are you hunting , cause long shots are not needed for the most part where I have hunted.

Haven't settled on a unit yet, but likely the southwest corner 71,72',73,74,711 somewhere in there.

That is one part of the state I have not hunted, but I know it fairly well.   You could get stuck with a long shot there, depending on the weather.   You prolly should have kept the WSM

The 270 is a pretty good elk round, that would give you more reach than a 16" 308.

The 300 WM is my go to when the elk are in places like this.

I used my 308 with 185 grn Berger Hunting VLD bullets on this years moose.  It performed better than than my .338 Win.  This was at 220 yards.

I would not hesitate to use the 308 on elk. I would spend some time researching the ballistics of the 165-8 class bullets vs 180's at your potential velocities. Choose your shot and put the bullet in the vitals and everything will be fine.

I will agree with the above posters on dropping down to a 150gr-165gr bullet.  I have a 16" AR-10 and I use the 150gr TTSX or the 165gr Sierra Game King out of it.  I also have a 26" Remington and a newly acquired 18" Ruger American. The 26" barrel will of course give me better velocities but i'll still stick with a 165gr as my max for hunting.    

I'm going to be flamed for saying this but I think that the 180gr bullets are better suited for the 30-06 or 300 Magnum calibers.  I say this only because talking with a few manufacturers they have stated that the design the jackets on many of the 180s to operate at 30-06 or above velocities.  Sierra comes to mind.  If you are going to shoot an animal at close range with the 180s they will work.  I just don't see limiting myself on range because I picked the wrong bullet for the task.

Just some additional food for thought since you're discussing lead-core and lead-free projectiles.  If you choose to go non-lead, consider going light.  Barnes and all the other copper / copper-gilding bullets need velocity to open and expand properly.  They also tend to retain weight better than lead-core.  The 130 Barnes out of your 270 should be right in the sweet spot.  I hunt elk with a 145 Barnes from a 280 Ackley, and I've been very pleased with the performance of the lighter copper bullets.

Those bullets aren't going to open up at 500 yards out of a 16" barrel.  Out of a 22" the 308 can get you to 350 if you want to be safe and maybe 450 on the outside edge with really good(hot) loads

I used 168 grain TTSX out of my POF. Put 2 shots both double lung in my relatively large cow at 129 yards, both busted ribs, 1 complete pass through and i recovered one of the barnes projectiles. These things are lethal

270 isn't a bad elk caliber but from what I have seen from limited numbers 3 with 308 2 with 30-06(regular remington loads so 308 speeds) vs 3 with 270.  the 30 calibers seem to work a little better.  Now thats only 8 elk but the ones with the 270 and 150 grain partitions have all went further/required more shots.  But those were 22" bolt 308's and 06's.
I think a 308 would work at the ranges he is talking about but a 16" 308 semi isn't really comparable to a 22" 308 bolt gun.   There is almost as much difference between them as what you get going from a 308 to a 300 win mag. With a 22" bolt 308 you can expect to get 2900 fps with 150's, 2800 fps with 165's and 2650 to 2700 fps with 180's.
With a 16 in semi auto your looking at 2600 fps with 150's, 2500 with 165's and 2400 with 180's
300 win mag is 3300 fps 150's, 3150 with 160's and 3000 with 180's.

Sorry......  Not to be difficult, but I'd do everything I possibly could to DISCOURAGE you from using the 308 on elk...

I've got no issues with 308 on big game.  Ive taken mine for everything from deer and caribou to moose.  Unfortunately, there are 308's and then there are 308's.  A 24 inch barreled 308 is very very different from a 16" 308.  The issue isn't that its a 308.  The issue is its a short barreled 308, which reduced velocities significantly, combined with a fairly heavy bullet, and then at long range.  Short barrel+ low muzzle velocity + slow heavy bullet+ long range = failure to expand.  Period.

1) With a 16" barrel, and a 180 grain bullet, you'll be doing well to get 2500.  My Model Seven has a 20" barrel, and about 2625 fps is as good as I can get without pressure signs.  2500 is likely a good estimate with the 16"...

2) At 100-200 yards the 308 will get it done.  400 and 500?  No way.  Not at a 2500 fps muzzle velocity.  At 300 yards the  most streamlined of those is accubond and its only going 2017 fps.  It will open, but expansion will be marginal.  Velocities with the AB drop to 1870fps  at 400 and 1729fps at 500 yard.  Expect totally shitty performance at those impact speeds.  The front will rivet some, but a full bullet expansion is going to be unpredictable and unreliable.  

The Partition and TTSX are worse.  At 300, impact velocities are down to sub-2000 fps.  Again, expect minimal expansion at this range.  It will be worse at 400 and 500 yards....

I know from experience that the Accubond and the TTSX are great bullets, but they NEED speed to open well.  They work well out of faster guns, like a 24" 30-06 or any 300 Mag.  Muzzle velocities are often 400 to 500 feet faster than your 308 16".  Use the 308 to stick that 180 TTSX on a elk at 400 yards and expect the  bullet to act like somewhat like a FMJ.  It won't open reliably.   The Partition is a bit more tolerant of low impact speeds, but I personally wouldn't want impact speeds below 2000 fps.  I've driven partitions through moose at 292 yards (laser rangefinder) where impact speed was about 2075.  Penetration was full broad side but the partition's expansion was a lot more sedate than I had hoped (this was a 225 grainer).  I would not dream of using one at 400 or 500, where impact speeds would be even less.  It will not expand at those impact speeds.  

Of the dozens of big game rifles I have owned and still own, the one with the most time in the field is  handy little .308 Stainless Model Seven..  Its a great rifle.  But its works only if you recognize its limits.  It simply ISNT up to 300+ yard shots on elk with any of the bullets you mentioned.  Deer at 0-300 yards, yes.  Moose and elk at 0-200 yes.  But not at that 400-500 yard range you mention.  Not out of a 16" gun.  

If you want to use a 180 Accubond, 180 Parition or 180 TTSX in .30 cal at 400 or 500 yards, you need a muzzle velocity of at least 2900 fps.  This will ensure it gets to 500 yards with at least 2000 fps remaining impact velocity.  If you cannot get that MV, you have two choices:  Start reducing range until you can be sure you still have 2000 fps at impact (which basically means limiting your shots to 200yards, maybe a bit further. And don't expect fantastic performance at that "little over 200 yards" range).  Or buy a bigger rifle with a larger case to get more MV.

Ok, lots of replies of not over 300 yds, more or less.  I have put over 20 elk in the freezer, one was shot over 300.  I had to pass on two shots cause they were 400+ when I was packing a 308.  Most of your shots will be well under 200 at least where I hunt.
I blame the damn hunting show where they are busting elk at 1,000 plus.  Not much need for that BS.

I have only shot 3 but have been with buddy's who have shot 5 other ones.   None,not a single one were over 300 yards!  In fact half 4 out of 8 were within 100 yards.  I agree with previous poster a 16" 308 should be limited to 250 to 300 yards.  A 168 accubond or ttsx will give enough penetration so you could drop down to that weight and get a little more speed, but he is spot on that those bullets don't really expand at 1800fps the manufacturers claim.  To get good expansion you want at least 2000 fps and 2200 is better.  Now that being said I would gladly take a 300 yard shot with my ruger 77 308 with 22" barrel.  I run the hornady superformance 168 grain interbond and they leave the barrel at a hair over 2800 fps.  But as I said in a previous post that a 22" or 24" bolt gun is a whole different world than a 16" semi.  The Semi's don't handle the higher pressure loads like hornady superformance and the 16" barrel is a little short for the 308(which is ideal in 20" to 22" barrels)

Honestly if the OP is content waiting for just broadside shots something like the VLD, soft quick expanding, will work better than the tougher bullets especially over 200 yards.  A 180 grain sst or ballistic tip is going to penetrate into the vitals on any broadside elk.  Likely won't exit but it will wreck the vitals.

Use your .270.  Loaded with 130gr TTSX you should get the same penetration out to 300 or so that you would get with a .300 win mag shooting 180 grains.  The impact energy wont be as big, but the penetration with a solid copper bullet will be close.  Expansion should be good as well with the .270 and solid bullets, especially if you are willing to take shoulder shots at the longer distances.  I hunt elk with a .270 and that is what I do.  Used to hunt with a .300 win mag, but prefer the .270 now as I get the same penetration with less recoil.  Good penetration and expansion is key with the .270, if you use a premium bullet you will be fine.  If you cheap out and use a cheap soft point you will not get effective kills on the longer shots.  If you use a bullet like the TTSX and are not willing to take a shoulder shot at longer ranges you may not get great expansion.

I killed a cow last week with one shot through the lungs. 150gr Hornady SST handload at about 2700fps.

All I use is a .308. I shoot a Ruger Predator in 308 so its an 18" barrel. I get 2550 FPS with a 178 grain ELDX. This thing is like a cruise missle. I have 1000 yard shots with not much difficulty. My ballistics are showing me that at 500 yards I have just shy of 2k FPS and 1500 ft/lbs. I say get good with your rifle and ensure you can mke the shot out to about 500 and use the 308. They are a workhorse.

This is where tacticool bumps into reality in an ugly way.

Yeah, 16" ARs are cool looking, take good internet pictures, etc.  Not so much for hunting or target shooting at distance.

Can you buy a 20" or 24" upper with a low profile barrel for hunting?

I hunted Elk in Wyoming in 2012 with my 20" .308...even though i reloaded, with a temp-stable powder, i couldnt get past 2,650ft/s with a 178gr AMAX or 185 Berger at an accuracy node.

In my 22" .30-06, i can launch the same bullets at almost 3,000ft/s with outstanding accuracy...its what I'll be taking with me this year.

One of my friends' fathers has used a .25-06 for all of his hunting for 30 years now, everything up to, and including elk, and has never had a problem dropping them.  Your .308 will do fine if you use a good bullet and put the bullet where it should be.

What I find funny is 15 years ago if you got on a hunting forum you would hear that a 243 was only barely adequate for deer to 100 yards and a 3006 was a decent elk gun but only to 200 yards.  Then the AR15 really started to become popular.  Now a 223 is enough for deer at 400 yards and a 6.8 spc or 6.5 grendel are 400 yard elk guns.  The reality as usual is somewhere in between!

I've killed a handful of elk, bear, mule deer with a 308. Inside of 300 yards with good shot placement you are good. I usually use accubond 150's.

I've used less gun too, 30-30, 6.8, and even 243. Shot placement and bullet selection is key.

With a 16" barrel, I wouldn't take that .308 hunting for elk unless you knew that the shot was going to be within 200yds.  Go with the .270.  I pulled my adductor bad enough that my entire inner thigh  and the area just to the right of my nuts bruised a week later, and it is just now that I can jog without severe pain, and that was on Dec 11.  This was also about 30 seconds before I shot my elk.  As you can imagine, I had a helluva time getting into a stable shooting position, and it took two rounds from a 300 win mag at ~200yds to take her down, because the first shot was a wee bit too far back, and didn't knock the heart or lungs out.  2" or 3" further back and it would have been a real fucking mess.  

For 50 yard shots, the magnums can really suck, as ruin an entire quarter if you hit a bone and the bullet fragments suck, but for anything over 150, having a little extra thump to it is nice for not-so-ideal situations.  Like ripping your shit up so that you walk like an 85 year old man right before you are going to shoot.  Your 16" barrel is the same as taking away some of that normal thump.  That's not to say that a very well placed shot at 600 yards wouldn't drop one, but you don't always get ideal shooting situations when hunting.

I vote for the .270 if you are serious about longer ranges, and the .308 if you will be in the brush. Personally I prefer the .300 Win. Mag, and it is a lot harder to get good shot placement in an elk hunting situation than you might be thinking, at least my opportunities have rarely been ideal. Both the .270 and .308 can work, more horsepower, so to speak, gives you more likelihood of anchoring the animal if the shot isn't perfect. Elk hunting is usually challenging in many ways, you may only get one shot, if that, make it count.

Here are a couple cows killed with my 308 TRG







My 14 year old daughter has killed 2 elk with her 20" .308

Daughters elk at a lasered 375 yards



Pointing to the entrance, exactly where I told her to put the bullet:




Last December:





I am a big fan of the .308 and have killed roughly a dozen elk with one. Only one of those shots has been under 300 yards.

Now with all that said, in your case, I would not recommend it, when you have such a short barrel. Like others have mentioned, you are losing a BUNCH of velocity, and limiting your range due to that.

BTW, my first dozen or so elk were killed with a .270. .270 is an excellent elk cartridge, and far more capable than many know. My father, who has been elk hunting for over 50 years has a ridiculous amount of elk with a .270, before branching off to try other cartridges and rifles.  

In your case, I would suggest the .270.

I've killed elk with both a 270 and a 308.  I used a Barnes 130 ttx and a Berger 185 gr juggernaut.

Both were killed with one shot.  It's all about shot placement regardless.

That being said use the rifle your have more time behind and you are the most comfortable with.  I'm going to use a creedmoor this year because that's what I'm shooting a lot of this year, so why not.  More time behind the gun and more comfortable with it.

http://www.hornady.com/store/308-Win-178-gr-ELD-X-Precision-Hunter/

Are those reloads or factory?  Hornady lists a MV of 2600 out of a 24 inch barrel; How you are getting that out of that rifle, as that is only a 50 FPS drop from the factory load.  I have that exact same rifle, and so far dropping ~200 FPS from hornady's specs for a 24 inch barrel has been fairly correct for my ruger predator 308.  Applying the same ~200 FPS drop, the 178gr factory ELD-X has dropped 60 inches, has only 1100 ft/lbs and traveling at only 1700 FPS.  

I prefer the 165 GR whitetail for my 308 ruger predator for deer, but per hornady that round needs 1800 FPS to expand, which limits it's range to around 350 yards (should be traveling around 1850 FPS at that point).

I might get some flak for this from the copper believers, but I would suggest not using a TTSX or other copper bullet in a .308.

I did a lot of reading on them for an elk/moose hunt last year, and chose the 150gr TTSX load out of a 20" 308. I'd heard the stories of them not opening up at slower velocities, but I figured that since I was using a decent length barrel, dropping down to a lighter 150gr bullet, and using the tipped version, it would be good.

Didn't end up getting a shot at any moose or elk, but I used them for deer hunting a couple months later because that's what I was zeroed for.

Shot a 2x2 buck at 290 yards, then tracked it and gave it a finishing shot at 30 yards even though I didn't really need to, because it was almost dark and I didn't feel like chasing it more.

Both bullets went right through, and I had trouble finding exit wounds from the outside. very little damage on the inside as well.

I think that these copper bullets are fantastic for high velocity and magnum calibers with light bullets, like 130gr .270 win, or 150gr .300 win mag. But for slow calibers like 308 I don't think they open up reliably.
Especially if you're shooting at any sort of distance.

That's just my experience. Others may vary.

Where did you hit the deer?  The TTSX works better out of standard non magnum rounds if it hits bone or heavy muscle/skin.  For use on deer, and elk as well, it will preform best if you take shoulder shots instead of aiming for the vitals behind the shoulder.  You lose more meat, but you will get much better expansion out of the copper bullet. Since the bullet penetrates so well, you will likely get full passthrough even after going through a shoulder bone.  130TTSX out of .270 win hitting the shoulder bone of an elk will still get full penetration and in my experience get full passthrough and create a nasty exit wound.

Nothing wrong with using a .308 for Elk at all. Why would anyone talk their way out of it? Use a quality hunting bullet just like you would with every other caliber.

I did hit it behind the shoulder. I agree with you, I'm sure it would have opened up if I hit the shoulder. But I don't want to have to hit the shoulder for it to open up. I just don't see th advantage for all copper on a slow cartridge bullet combination like 308.
If I was hunting with something higher velocity I would definitely use it. But I think I'll be going back to regular bonded bullets in 308.

Update in OP

Know you made your decision but wanted to update thoughts on the 308 out of a short barrel for elk.  The new nosler accubond LR 165 grain really changes things for the 308.  The super high bc of .598 and low expansion threshold(1300 fps) should allow a 24" inch gun to reliably take elk to 500 yards(check out the ballistics for that round) Should allow a 16" gun to get close to 400.

Resurrecting this thread because over the last year I've completely fallen in love with my squatty little 308. My 165 SST hand loads shoot lights out and have crushed 3 white tails and a hog.

I'm really interested in the idea of trying the long range bullets but at moderate distances. The logic is sound. If my bullet is slow at 400 yards because of my short barrel, and the bullet is designed to open up at slower speeds, I could get the performance without the initial velocity.

What other long range rounds are out there that might perform similarly?

Shot placement.

I don't know of anywhere Elk stand in the open to be shot at 400 yards during hunting season. But I hunt public land. Experiences may vary.

If the bullet you fired at 30 yards didn't perform/expand I wouldn't blame velocity. Perhaps you got a bad lot?

OP. I saw your update but I would have recommended you to know your dope with the 16" .308 and get good at estimating distance or get a laser.

I use a 20" .308 and wouldn't hesitate to use it and 165 grain gamekings at 400 yards. At 2800fps that's just under 5moa (with a 225 yard zero) so if I remember an elks dimensions correctly I think I'd hold on the top of the back.

Great thread to stumble upon. I happen to be looking for some very similar suggestions right now.

Recently picked up a 16.5” Remington 700 in 308. I’m going to be running an AAC SDN-6 suppressor on it, so I opted for the 16.5” barrel over the 20” barrel to keep overall length and weight down. This is going to be my deer and elk rifle for at least a season or two. Mountain lion, as well.

From my research thus far pertaining to a 16/16.5” 308 for elk, I seem to see a lot of recommendations for 165, 168, and 180 grain loads. 150, too, but I’ve already weighed out going that light. Don’t intend to take a shot beyond 300 yards with the 16.5” barrel, unless it’s not too much more of a stretch, and I’m feeling real confident about the scenario at hand.

Anyways, what factory load would you folks recommend I go with? Mostly curious if there’s a particular factory load these days that has proven to be dang lethal on elk from shorter 308 barrels at distances not too far out there.