 Skg_Mre_Lght
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Posted: 2/12/2012 10:42:20 AM
[Last Edit: 2/12/2012 10:55:07 AM by Skg_Mre_Lght]
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT I literally had to relearn hunting, adjust to altitude, and thank god the Army marched me for miles with a pack on, because it helped me as an Elk hunter. I have become a very successful hunter for this region of the US, as some of you may know from my trophy pictures. What I kind of want to do is start a helpful hints type of thing for guys not used to huge expanses of wilderness, and what it meant to you to come out West and hunt the Rockies and surrounding areas. Let us know your experiences, what you first thought of hunting out here as opposed to back home, and maybe something that you wish you would have brought with you, something along those lines. I will mostly stay inactive, as I live here and many things such as Altitude, out-of-state prices for tags, housing, or even something as menial as being able to run home for something I left at the house, do not affect me as it does someone that is a thousand miles from home. Let's hear it guys/gals...let's talk to the people that want to come out here and hunt, but haven't and may not understand what it is like. |
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autumnsong
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Posted: 2/12/2012 11:12:18 AM
They need to understand that the work doesn't really even start until after the kill. Packing an elk out of the backcountry is a bitch when you don't have horses.
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Skg_Mre_Lght
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Posted: 2/12/2012 11:36:26 AM
Originally Posted By autumnsong:
They need to understand that the work doesn't really even start until after the kill. Packing an elk out of the backcountry is a bitch when you don't have horses. Hahahahah! Truer words have never been spoken. There have been a few times that I have sworn to never pull the trigger on an elk again after getting back to camp and still have one more trip for a quarter. Just quartering out an elk is excellent exercise. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 2/13/2012 12:33:22 PM
Originally Posted By autumnsong:
They need to understand that the work doesn't really even start until after the kill. Packing an elk out of the backcountry is a bitch when you don't have horses. Even with horses and mules it can be a bitch. Having a mule turn his back end to you so you can't get close with a quarter. Horses that get loaded up with game then break away from to the pack string and take off. Packs that shift and roll, pack horses that try to jump switchbacks and miss the trail below. You have to learn all the tricks about trying to get them over the smell of dead game. Covering the muzzle with blood, vicks in the nostrils, etc. but in the end when you deal with livestock you will end up with a wreck on occasion. |
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Skg_Mre_Lght
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Posted: 2/13/2012 3:12:19 PM
Okay, I guess I will kick start this a little bit.
Most of my elk have been in Black Timber. I have made one shot over 300 yards on a elk, but that isn't the norm for our camp. I actually have two rifle that I take with me elk hunting, because I have been hunting the area for years, and know, generally, what I will need. When hunting large meadows around our camp, I will take my .300 RUM. When hunting black timber, which is most of the time, I take my 20" Ruger Alaskan .375 Ruger. Other popular black timber guns in our camp are Marlin .45-70s, a Browning BAR .338 Win Mag, and short barreled .338-06 and a short barreled .30-06. Make sure you have quality game bags. Early elk season is often a few days of 70 degree weather, followed by blizzards, then more 70 degree weather. Buy a quality pack frame, have plenty of water, rope and a couple of knives with you. You should also carry a knife sharpener of some sort. Pack clothes that are useful from -20 to 75 degrees...you may use them all. Drink plenty of fluids. My camp sits at 9000 ft, and we hunt higher than that. Water will help you adapt to altitude. Start exercising about a year before you come out. Seriously. My 6 years in the Army, with road marches, pt, etc, etc did not prepare me for walking miles at altitude...you are also gonna get schooled packing your elk back to camp. I think we would be better served by people that do not live in the Rocky Mountain region telling you guys what they wish they had done to prepare. |
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Posted: 2/13/2012 4:13:57 PM
[Last Edit: 2/13/2012 4:15:55 PM by crodeo]
For a non resident some of the most important things you can do is check out the state you plan to hunts game and fish website. These are valuable resources for harvest data in units your are looking to apply to, tag odds, number of tags issued and so forth. I like Wyomings system for tags and preference points, so far I have only pulled general tags. A non resident elk tag in Wyoming is $595 plus the other little fees (archery tag, conservation tag). You can front the fees on a credit card, if you don't draw you will get a refund minus $14 application fee. You can apply from Jan 1 thru Jan 31, they announce the draw results around Feb 25 or so.
If your plans include a general tag you need to narrow down the area you plan to hunt, non residents can not hunt the wilderness area in general units without a guide (super retarded). If you have a gps that you can download maps to, I suggest you go to gpsfiledepot.com or huntinggpsmaps.com and get a Wyoming (for example) topo map. You can make smaller maps of the area you plan to hunt from there, get them laminated and throw into your pack. I like to hunt off my back which requires added mental and physical strength. For this type of hunting you really rely on your gear. A good lightweight tent or bivy (I'm a tent guy) is a must. Sleeping bag, my bag is a little heavier than some would like, I like to stay warm so I opted for a 0 degree bag in synthetic. Down is lighter and packs smaller but I worry about it getting wet. Sleeping pads, I have a Therma Rest Lite that was less than a pound and packs away nice. It's self inflating and helps keep you comfy (as comfy as cold woods on the ground get). Food, I really like the Jetboil flash and I think most of the Mountain House meals taste pretty good. Other snacks like trail mix and jerky are pretty light and help keep the weight down. I pack a few extra changes of merino wool socks and synthetic undies. Most of my outer gear is Sitka brand camo. Water, I have a Katadyn Hiker that works great for pumping and filtering water. Pack, you have to carry all your crap somehow. I have the Eberlestock Blue Widow pack. I comfortably carried my day items and an elk quarter with no problems in this pack. It expands when I need it and folds down to day pack duty (it is a bit heavy for a day pack though). I find it fits as hauler, backcountry gear pack and day pack quite well. As was mentioned, you should be in decent shape for hunting out west. The steep terrain, dead fall climbing, altitude are all factors that can take a toll on your body if you are out of shape. If you are miserable because you are sore and tired you probably wasted $595. If you plan ahead by walking, hiking with a pack for at least three months ahead of time you will be fine. Pace yourself. I run 3 or more miles a day and do some weight training but the altitude sometimes takes a day to get used to. Do you plan to archery hunt or rifle hunt? I have only archery hunted elk. I like to hear them bugle and get them screaming at me. The weather during archery season can be in the 80's in the afternoon one day and dump 6" of snow the next. Rifle season is generally in mid October when the weather can start being unpredictable for even getting to your hunting spot. You may want to think about throwing chains into your vehicle and keeping your eye on the weather. If you are hunting the rut make sure you practice with an elk call. Your wife will love you for it 
Make sure you practice plenty with your weapon of choice. Last year I shoulder hit a 300 class bull. All I found was my broken bloody arrow. Heart breaking for me but I'm sure the processor dug the arrow out of his shoulder when a rifle hunter killed it a month later 
What happens if you get one down? Now the work begins. Hit www.elk101.com and watch the gutless video a few times. This is the way to get a 600 pound animal out of steep country. Bring some good (alaskan) game bags. I like the Havalon Piranta knives. It's more like a scalpel knife with replaceable blades. We completely boned out an elk last year with this knife and 3 blades. No sharpening while you work, just pop a new blade on. Bring a large cooler (more like 2) if you will be pretty far from a Walmart. We bought dry ice and hauled the boned out elk home. Bring a fishing pole as well. Your non resident license includes a fishing license. There are plenty of lakes and ponds scattered thru out Wyoming. Most importantly, don't plan on being successful right away, but plan on learning and having a great time. It is possible, we called a 5x5 in the first time to 10 yards and double lunged him. I don't hunt with a guide so there is a learning curve doing it yourself, but Elknuts Playbook can really help shorten that curve. ETA: Wyoming is a long drive from West Virginia, if you are travelling a long way, you may want to add an extra day to your trip and spend the night in a hotel close to where you are going. This helps altitude acclimation and you get one last good night of sleep and a shower.  |
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Skg_Mre_Lght
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Posted: 2/13/2012 4:25:37 PM
Originally Posted By crodeo: For a non resident some of the most important things you can do is check out the state you plan to hunts game and fish website. These are valuable resources for harvest data in units your are looking to apply to, tag odds, number of tags issued and so forth. I like Wyomings system for tags and preference points, so far I have only pulled general tags. A non resident elk tag in Wyoming is $595 plus the other little fees (archery tag, conservation tag). You can front the fees on a credit card, if you don't draw you will get a refund minus $14 application fee. You can apply from Jan 1 thru Jan 31, they announce the draw results around Feb 25 or so. If your plans include a general tag you need to narrow down the area you plan to hunt, non residents can not hunt the wilderness area in general units without a guide (super retarded). If you have a gps that you can download maps to, I suggest you go to gpsfiledepot.com or huntinggpsmaps.com and get a Wyoming (for example) topo map. You can make smaller maps of the area you plan to hunt from there, get them laminated and throw into your pack. I like to hunt off my back which requires added mental and physical strength. For this type of hunting you really rely on your gear. A good lightweight tent or bivy (I'm a tent guy) is a must. Sleeping bag, my bag is a little heavier than some would like, I like to stay warm so I opted for a 0 degree bag in synthetic. Down is lighter and packs smaller but I worry about it getting wet. Sleeping pads, I have a Therma Rest Lite that was less than a pound and packs away nice. It's self inflating and helps keep you comfy (as comfy as cold woods on the ground get). Food, I really like the Jetboil flash and I think most of the Mountain House meals taste pretty good. Other snacks like trail mix and jerky are pretty light and help keep the weight down. I pack a few extra changes of merino wool socks and synthetic undies. Most of my outer gear is Sitka brand camo. Water, I have a Katadyn Hiker that works great for pumping and filtering water. Pack, you have to carry all your crap somehow. I have the Eberlestock Blue Widow pack. I comfortably carried my day items and an elk quarter with no problems in this pack. It expands when I need it and folds down to day pack duty (it is a bit heavy for a day pack though). I find it fits as hauler, backcountry gear pack and day pack quite well. As was mentioned, you should be in decent shape for hunting out west. The steep terrain, dead fall climbing, altitude are all factors that can take a toll on your body if you are out of shape. If you are miserable because you are sore and tired you probably wasted $595. If you plan ahead by walking, hiking with a pack for at least three months ahead of time you will be fine. Pace yourself. I run 3 or more miles a day and do some weight training but the altitude sometimes takes a day to get used to. Do you plan to archery hunt or rifle hunt? I have only archery hunted elk. I like to hear them bugle and get them screaming at me. The weather during archery season can be in the 80's in the afternoon one day and dump 6" of snow the next. Rifle season is generally in mid October when the weather can start being unpredictable for even getting to your hunting spot. You may want to think about throwing chains into your vehicle and keeping your eye on the weather. If you are hunting the rut make sure you practice with an elk call. Your wife will love you for it Make sure you practice plenty with your weapon of choice. Last year I shoulder hit a 300 class bull. All I found was my broken bloody arrow. Heart breaking for me but I'm sure the processor dug the arrow out of his shoulder when a rifle hunter killed it a month later What happens if you get one down? Now the work begins. Hit www.elk101.com and watch the gutless video a few times. This is the way to get a 600 pound animal out of steep country. Bring some good (alaskan) game bags. I like the Havalon Piranta knives. It's more like a scalpel knife with replaceable blades. We completely boned out an elk last year with this knife and 3 blades. No sharpening while you work, just pop a new blade on. Bring a large cooler (more like 2) if you will be pretty far from a Walmart. We bought dry ice and hauled the boned out elk home. Bring a fishing pole as well. Your non resident license includes a fishing license. There are plenty of lakes and ponds scattered thru out Wyoming. Most importantly, don't plan on being successful right away, but plan on learning and having a great time. It is possible, we called a 5x5 in the first time to 10 yards and double lunged him. I don't hunt with a guide so there is a learning curve doing it yourself, but Elknuts Playbook can really help shorten that curve. ETA: Wyoming is a long drive from West Virginia, if you are travelling a long way, you may want to add an extra day to your trip and spend the night in a hotel close to where you are going. This helps altitude acclimation and you get one last good night of sleep and a shower. This is what I am talking about. We need more. |
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Posted: 2/14/2012 9:48:29 AM
[Last Edit: 2/14/2012 9:49:17 AM by crodeo]
How about Antelope hunting? You resident guys probably consider them a nuisance since you see them all the time but I think they are fun to hunt and delicious.
I consider Wyoming the best place to Antelope hunt out west, it's also the only state I have experience hunting antelope in. They are littered with antelope and the trophy potential is great. Odds of harvesting an antelope with a rifle is in the 90% range, bow is around 13% last I checked. Again, check the states game and fish website for game units, public land availability, tag odds and so forth. Antelope tags are limited entry, meaning you have to draw a tag. Antelope entry dates run from Jan 1 thru March 15th. The tag entry fee for an either sex tag is $295 which can be fronted on a credit card. If you do not draw you will be refunded all but the process fee ($14 I think). You can also enter for a preference point during this time, $30 extra. If you don't draw your first choice you get a point. You can enter 3 different units, 1st choice, 2nd choice and 3rd choice. Most people enter the first into a unit they know they won't draw so they can gain a point and keep the points they've already banked. If you don't draw, don't worry, you can still hunt if you want. Usually around July 6 the leftover tags are published. Keep in mind there are leftover either sex and doe/fawn tags. Pay attention to the units these are available in and do your research of the unit before you buy a tag. If there are a bunch of buck tags available in a particular unit, there is a good chance that unit has very little public access. You can find a list of landowners and contact them for tresspass fees if you are inclined. In some units you can also buy up to 4 doe/fawn tags, I recall these run around $34 each. Now that you have your tag, do you plan to rifle or bow hunt? Make sure you check the regulations for when seasons open because they don't all open at the same time. If you plan to archery hunt you better practice daily out to 70 yards. Getting inside of 50 yards on an antelope is tough. Decoys can help close the gap but can add problems as well. If your decoy attaches to your bow you better shoot alot cause the wind can turn your decoy and bow into a kite in Wyoming. A range finder is a must and good binos. Also, there is plenty of prickly cactus type plants on the ground. Spot and stalk hunting can require belly crawls and plenty of hands and knees crawling. Make sure you bring good gloves and a pair of knee pads. The rocky ground is pain in the butt. I almost broke my leg failing in a hole stalking an antelope a couple of years ago. The stupid cow decoy was attached to my bow and I was looking over it sneeking and stepped into a huge hole, not good. Archery season start in August and it can be scorching hot. Especially if you decide to hunt a bllind by a water hole, which by the way can up your odds quite a bit. Also, some parts of Wyoming are crawling with rattle snakes so keep your eye for those. Rifle seasons start in mid September or earlier in some units. You can combine an archery Elk hunt during the rut with a rifle antelope hunt if you have the time. Last year we hunted a leftover antelope tag with rifles for 2 days then headed 2 hours west to the moutains to elk hunt. Bring plenty of coolers
Make sure you are capable of shooting out to 300+ yards if you plan to rifle hunt. I know some people have shot as far as 700+ but that's not for me. The one I shot last year with a rifle was actually 50 yards, closer than any archery attempt I ever had . Again, a good set of binos help pass the day. You can spot antelope 1000+ yards out and plan your route of attack with a good set of binos or spotting scope. Don't forget some blaze orange, at least a hat.
Chap stick, I never used any in my life until I hunted the windy plains of Wyoming. Have a plan for the meat and head if you plan to mount one. It can still be fairly hot in the middle of the day during September. It's good to have the local processor address and number ahead of time. Especially if you have more tags to fill. I killed this one last year on a leftover tag in a unit with very little access. 
I got him back from the taxi in a record, less than 2 months. Here he is on my office wall 
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Posted: 2/14/2012 11:36:13 AM
Originally Posted By autumnsong:
They need to understand that the work doesn't really even start until after the kill. Packing an elk out of the backcountry is a bitch when you don't have horses. So true. I have passed on shots because of where the animal was located or how far back I was. I killed a mule deer in a bad spot and it sucked packing it out, I don't want to imagine if it were an elk. |
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JimTh
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Posted: 2/14/2012 12:04:38 PM
Use optics to reduce how much you have to walk. That means binocs AND a spotting scope. The more you spend, the better.
Expect to have to shoot a lot futher than you do back east. Use the backroads/BLM trails to their fullest. I don't mean roadhunt, I mean use them to get access to areas and to find where the animals are to begin with. The west is huge and there are huge tracts of land with very few animals. Get maps and get a gps. Preferably get a GPS with public land maps on it. Don't be afraid to change socks throughout the day, drying out the wet pair for the next rotation. Subscribe to and read Eastmans Hunting Journal. Use it to help determine where you want to go and what it will take to draw in your unit of choice. #1 lesson from my October mule deer hunt, my first: That hill is NOT too steep for mule deer to climb or bed on. In fact, they like it. Hunt antelope with the sun at your back, they glow in the sun. Glass mule deer in the morning and evening. You'll see very few in the middle of the day. Sun at your back helps. Take advantage of Block Management and Walk-In Areas. That's all I can think of right now. |
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Seabee_Mech
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Posted: 2/14/2012 1:10:49 PM
Originally Posted By JimTh:
Get maps and get a gps. Preferably get a GPS with public land maps on it. Where I hunt in Eastern Montana it can be a maze of BLM, private land, school sections and public lands, often it's difficult to tell where the boundaries are. Prior to using GPS we've passed up many elk and mule deer because it was difficult to tell if they were on public or private land. |
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Posted: 2/21/2012 11:00:44 AM
Lucky me pulled a Wyoming General Elk tag with no points this morning. Looks like I'll be back this year for more elk meat.
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Skg_Mre_Lght
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Posted: 2/21/2012 11:04:50 AM
Originally Posted By crodeo: Lucky me pulled a Wyoming General Elk tag with no points this morning. Looks like I'll be back this year for more elk meat. You have to draw a General Tag if you are out-of-state? Wow. |
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Posted: 2/21/2012 11:41:46 AM
Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:
Originally Posted By crodeo:
Lucky me pulled a Wyoming General Elk tag with no points this morning. Looks like I'll be back this year for more elk meat. You have to draw a General Tag if you are out-of-state? Wow. No, but I didn't have any points (already used them) so I applied for a General tag as my first and only choice with the preference point option so I could build them back up. Instead I pulled a tag in the random draw with no points. |
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Skg_Mre_Lght
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Posted: 2/21/2012 1:04:59 PM
Originally Posted By crodeo: Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght: Originally Posted By crodeo: Lucky me pulled a Wyoming General Elk tag with no points this morning. Looks like I'll be back this year for more elk meat. You have to draw a General Tag if you are out-of-state? Wow. No, but I didn't have any points (already used them) so I applied for a General tag as my first and only choice with the preference point option so I could build them back up. Instead I pulled a tag in the random draw with no points. General is where it's at, anyway. I always hunt area 10, but I will be putting in for area 7 this year because i am going to kill a big bull on private. |
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Posted: 2/21/2012 1:20:15 PM
Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:
Originally Posted By crodeo:
Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:
Originally Posted By crodeo:
Lucky me pulled a Wyoming General Elk tag with no points this morning. Looks like I'll be back this year for more elk meat. You have to draw a General Tag if you are out-of-state? Wow. No, but I didn't have any points (already used them) so I applied for a General tag as my first and only choice with the preference point option so I could build them back up. Instead I pulled a tag in the random draw with no points. General is where it's at, anyway. I always hunt area 10, but I will be putting in for area 7 this year because i am going to kill a big bull on private. I would say you have a better chance of killing a P&Y bull in a WY general unit than killing a raghorn in an OTC Unit in CO. |
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Posted: 2/29/2012 3:57:35 PM
as a native Coloradoan (and a really crappy hunter) let me tell what gets most people from the east out here.
IT'S HUGE. You can literally see for MILES from almost anywhere out west (esp Wyoming and Montana). Sometimes a hundred miles or more. (yeah, you don't believe me, nobody does, but you will) You can walk/drive all day towards the same mountain range and never get there. It's up high. Almost all of Wyoming is over 6000 feet in altitude, most of Colorado is over 5000 feet. Even the plains. figure 20% less oxygen for every 5000 feet. That's a LOT. It's extremely dry out here. 10 to 20% humidity can be a standard day. Most of the front range of Colorado (mountains east) get less than 13 inches of rain A YEAR. Lots of places back east can get that in a day. Between the dryness and the humidity you will dry out. It's a LONG way between real roads and towns. There are simply no other ways to get around. One way, that's it for a 100 miles or more. antelope is the best tasting meat. |
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Posted: 2/29/2012 4:07:59 PM
i want to add one more thing.
Legally all you need is an orange hat in Wyoming. BUT Wyoming is big and flat and people are glassing and shooting from a LONG ways off. A coat/vest/cover with a lot of orange is WAY more visible on the big plains of Wyoming. Dramatic difference in visibility. I wear my full orange coat all the time. I'd really rather not get shot. |
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Posted: 3/2/2012 2:02:19 PM
Some people get intimidated by wilderness. Be honest with yourself about navigation abilities (without a GPS), your ability to stay a night without a tent, or what to do if you get soaked. Most people can remain calm enough to think their way through situations. However I've seen people thrown into a panick because they got turned around a mile from the nearest road.
There is nothing wrong with packing a pistol for self defense against bears or lions or other crap that goes bump in the night, but realise that the most dangerous animal you will meet in the mountains is your horse. |
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Posted: 3/2/2012 7:53:02 PM
Originally Posted By Lapidary:
Some people get intimidated by wilderness. Be honest with yourself about navigation abilities (without a GPS), your ability to stay a night without a tent, or what to do if you get soaked. Most people can remain calm enough to think their way through situations. However I've seen people thrown into a panick because they got turned around a mile from the nearest road. There is nothing wrong with packing a pistol for self defense against bears or lions or other crap that goes bump in the night, but realise that the most dangerous animal you will meet in the mountains is your horse. + 1 million. Way back when I was guiding deer and elk hunters in Montana, clients would often ask me "What's the most dangerous animal in these mountains?" I'd always reply, "That nasty, ugly thing you're riding!" And I was right, statistically-speaking. |
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Skg_Mre_Lght
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Posted: 3/22/2012 8:16:20 AM
Also, you need to start drinking waaaaay more water than you currently do.
Altitude is just like being in the wind in that it will dehydrate you very quickly, and that will worsen the effects of being at altitude if you aren't used to it. |
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Posted: 3/27/2012 3:25:20 AM
Great thread, I plan on moving to Utah next spring and can't wait to start elk hunting. For weekend hunts, what tents and rucks do you recommend? How much weight would you suggest trying to hike in with? I'm in pretty decent shape, i'll be moving up there after finishing up an enlistment and i've carried a 85 lbs pack for a few miles camping down in Texas, but I can't imagine hauling the same load at altitude.
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SnoopisTDI
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Posted: 4/4/2012 10:19:03 AM
I've been hunting in NM for several years now, but I'm lucky enough to hunt with friends who are residents and I let them do most of the research, pick which units and seasons to hunt, etc. But one thing I like to do shortly before leaving for NM is go to USGS website and sownload their free topo maps in pdf format. I zoom into the areas I want and print them out large and in color. I don't carry the paper maps while out hunting, but they are GREAT for viewing at camp (much better than a tiny GPS!) and planning the next day. You can also use a website like Flashearth to view satellite of the same areas.
Of course, there's a good chance you'll end up in a different area and all that will be useless, but I always feel more confident going into a hunt if I have a basic lay of the land in my head before I even get out of the truck to set camp. Originally Posted By zangief7:
I'm in pretty decent shape, i'll be moving up there after finishing up an enlistment and i've carried a 85 lbs pack for a few miles camping down in Texas, but I can't imagine hauling the same load at altitude. The altitude is definitely rough, and keep in mind most of your hiking will be cross-country, not on a road or trail. Depending on location, you'll be stepping over fallen trees, hopping small streams, climbing steep grades, etc. So you have to consider not only physical endurance, but also agility and balance. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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