I don't mean financially- that's a given. Here's our predicament: I have a stable job. My wife is home with our three young children. We're just under 20 minutes away from both our parents, my wife's grandparents, best friends I've known for 20+ years. What not to love? Who would ever want to give any of that up?

When I'm looking at land and can only afford 10-15 acres because land is $10-15k+ per acre around here, it really gets me thinking. Why not move somewhere and be able to buy 150 acres instead? I have this internal debate with myself time and time again and always come to the same conclusion: stay close to the family.

When prioritizing, family (grandparents, parents, and even close friends) always goes to the top of the list. Has anyone taken the plunge and moved far away in an effort to pursue their dream of owning a bunch of land?

ETA 7/20: Thoughts on sacrificing quality of a school district for the move? A piece of land just popped up that's waking distance from both sets of grandparents and good friends. It's 20 acres with an existing barn and pasture. A friend of a friend owns the 15 acres above it and stated they would be more than happy to sell if we ever wanted to buy for a very reasonable price. The big downside: the school district is terrible for the area. Part of me thinks that being close to family and raising the kids right will get them through unscathed, but the other part says I would be setting them up for failure. Thoughts?

what corner of the state do you live?

Don't sacrifice your family for a bunch of dirt.

Not the same, but I know a bunch of people who live in Illinois, they all hate it, they bitch and moan about it and they are right it sucks.

But none of them will leave the festering shithole because everyone they know lives in the same festering shithole and they are all codependent or something.

Fuck that, live your life for you and your immediate family, do not let them interfere with your dreams.

Eastern PA. Berks/Lehigh.

We're all transplants to the area we're in now. My family used to vacation here and my parents loved the area so much, they opted to move here when they retired. I followed with my wife shortly after and the rest migrated here after us.

Truthfully I'm not considering their feelings as much as my kids'. My kids absolutely love going to their grandparents' house and sometimes spending the night there. I also love how close we all are to one another. It's going to be a rough time for me when my parents pass. They're truly amazing. I want my children to enjoy them as much as possible while they're around.

How much land do you want?

lands pretty cheap in NEPA... buy some of that and run up on the weekends.

I would be content with 10-20 acres but 100+ would meet all my needs wants.

NEPA and north central PA are cheap. Maybe that's a route to explore. Just want to make sure I distance myself from NYC transplants. No offense folks.

If you have good family for the kids to be around, cherish that. 

OP,,,,Buy something that you can use even if just on the weekends. We bought a bunch of land to hunt on and kept it for about ten years. Sold it and never looked back. Moral is think about the money you`ll get when you sell it WHILE you are having fun BEING on it. It`s never wrong to make a profit.

Whoa buddy! You can make a lot of internet friends with a bunch of dirt. Totally worth it.

I'm 3 hrs from the nearest family (outside of distant relatives that are 1-2 hrs away that we never see). I'm where I am because of a job in a career field I enjoy with pay, benefits, and cost of living that are impossible to find where family is.

Make no mistakes, being away from family is HARD. 3 or 4 years ago my wife's great-grandpa got sick and didn't have long to live (he was late-90's), I left work asap and we hauled arse home to see him one last time, barely made it. Want to drop the kids off at grandma's so you and the wife can go out for dinner? Nope, not happening. Need help working on a project in the back yard? Hope you have friends bc you won't have family without a great deal of advanced planning. Need to borrow a tool from your dad, or have him drop by to look at a conundrum you have so he can give a 2nd-opinion? Nope.

IMHO, an absolute MUST-HAVE for living away from family is a good "family" of friends. We've found that in a church filled with wonderful, giving hearts. They came and waited in the hospital until midnight when we were having our first child, their kids watch our kids, we have cookouts etc. They are still not even close to being a substitute for family. A GOOD family member is the one that will come help you when your plumbing backs up and there is shit floating in your basement; very few friends or church family are going to come for that one.

If it is ONLY the land that you want then I suggest you don't move away from family. If you're forced do move away from family because that's what you have to do to support your family in the way that you want to do it, then it's different. There is not a day that goes by that I don't long for living closer to family. I ponder weekly what will happen as I get older, and our parents begin to age and need help? I'm here because I can't support my family to this extent anywhere closer to family without living in a large city (living in Indianapolis I may do "equal" but I'm not doing city-life and that only gets me 1 hr closer to family).

Thanks for sharing. You've made excellent points. Ironically, our septic did back up last year into our basement. It would have been an expensive fix since there was a severed piped underground we didn't know about, but my father called a friend and they worked on it the next day, covered in waste, while I had to go to work.

Bumped for school district question in OP

If land is only $10-15k an acre consider yourself blessed.

To your original question ... we made sacrifices to buy our 11 acre homestead.

Prior to the move ...

+ My drive to work was a little under 20 minutes;
+ My wife was also working (she had been in her position for over a decade);
+ We had a nice home with affordable mortgage;
+ We had a two car attached garage;
+ We had municipal utilities (water, sewer, gas, electric, internet).

After the move ...

- My drive was 51 minutes on a highway each direction;
- My wife quit her job to remodel the house (property cost required us to "downgrade" the house to afford the land it sat on) and run the homestead;
- We had to spend too much to remodel the house (built in 2003) to our standards;
- We didn't have a garage (the barn was 75 feet from the house);
- We only had municipal electric (well water; septic system; propane gas; and ZERO internet).

After four years and about 60,000 miles of driving to work I finally called it, and we decided to move back to town.

Now (upside) ...

+ My drive to work is 7 minutes;
+ My wife has a new job she likes better than the old one;
+ We have a house that is appreciating in value;
+ We have a 3.5 car attached garage;
+ We have all municipal utilities and internet.

Now (downside) ...

- We both miss the "relative" or "perceived" security our homestead offered (our house was 0.7 miles off a paved county road down a gravel private lane that looked like a driveway from the paved road);
- We both miss the privacy and seclusion offered (our house was over 300 feet off the private lane, and all of our "neighbors" had at least as much land as us.  My closet neighbor was 211 yards away);
- We both miss our livestock;
- We both miss our garden, orchard, brambles patch, etc.






Here is the most important thing I'm going to say ....

The real sacrifice comes in the form of time.  You're going to spend more time in your car, more time fixing homestead crap, more time cutting firewood, more time keeping predators out of your livestock, more time doing normal stuff like grocery shopping / running to the post office, etc.




Here is the second most important thing I'm going to say ....

START SMALL.  One summer we planted 107 tomato plants.  These were outside of our 1/3 acre vegetable garden. We also started by planting 20 fruit trees, and stringing 7000 feet of electric wire.  START SMALL and build up or you will burn out.

Yes and no.  I didn't want any sacrifices to effect my family so I held off on buying our property/farm for 10+ years.  When I originally wanted to buy the property we would not have been able to afford a house in the city and a property out in the woods.  I didn't want to drag our life out of the city so I held off and planned.  My wife and I got better paying jobs and promotions so our income more than doubled during those years and we managed to pay off the house in the city.  We paid off all our debt, saved money for our kids college education and saved money every pay check.  In the meantime we did our research on properties all over our state and went to visit areas/properties that were interesting. Finally after years of planning we found a 20 acre land 100 miles (2 hr. drive) from our city house at the end of the dirt road.  Our 20 acres is surrounded by large properties so it feels and hunts like a large property.  Now we live our life in the city during the week and live our rural life on weekends at our property.  We have the best of both worlds but it took a long time to get to where we are.

I don't have kids, but I wouldn't sacrifice them for myself.

Thank you for the detailed post. We currently are on 4 acres, but it's not all that usable. The first acre and a half is consumed by our uphill curved driveway. There's not a whole lot we could do with the area that doesn't have gravel on it. It's fairly steep and faces the north side, so productivity would be low for plants. The next acre and a half has our house, lawn, garden, shed, chicken coop, and chicken run sitting on it. The remainder is a small amount of wooded area and a wooded tree line on each side of the property.

I'm about 45 minutes to an hour on my commute each way. This doesn't necessarily bother me. My wife is home and does a stellar job of holding down the fort (gardening, some lawn care, etc. I'm a lucky man!). Our garden is about 30x50. The kicker which I can't recall seeing at closing is that our property has deed restrictions on it and technically no farm animals allowed. I don't want to be a rotten neighbor and get something loud or smelly. It wouldn't be right. We've done fairly well with some crops year to year and just added a few blueberry bushes in there. We've had chickens for numerous years now for egglaying- very straightforward and minimal effort. We've tried our hand with raising ducks for meat. We slaughtered one batch of Pekins and Muscovies but haven't done it again since my wife isn't a fan of the meat. I think we've dabbled enough to know (or at least think) that it's something we want for our lives, and I'm more than willing to make certain sacrifices to make it happen.

Wowsers!  $150,000 wil buy you 75-200 acres around here.

I think when I said "terrible" in the OP for the school district, that was a heavy over-exaggeration. We were/are looking in Northwestern Lehigh school district- excellent academics, great college prep, decent sports, rated top 10% in the state overall according to US News. The property in question now is in Tamaqua school district- much higher government assistance, the middle school and high school itself is in town, heavier drug population, lower rates to go to college, etc.

I guess the question I keep asking myself is can a close circle of friends and family direct a child to success moreso than the environmental factors of a classroom and peers? Frankly, I don't think there is a right answer- just dependent upon each individual. I just don't want to see my child grow up and have no further aspirations for great achievements. Tough call when there's not necessarily a right or wrong answer- just the unknown.

absolutely has an impact on the kids. A child with the right set of parents, a decent church, parents that have a good social life and allow their children to socialize with those adults and their kids has a better opportunity than a child that goes to the best school and has shitty parents and social life/skills.

make the move... go get those acres.

Location, location, location.

There are several good books about small scale homesteading.  John Seymour's "Self Sufficient Life and How To Live It" would be a good starting point.  This book may help you scale down your ambitions.  As I mentioned earlier, starting SMALL is absolutely necessary.  The amount of land required will be dependent upon three factors:

1) Do you want large livestock (milking or beef cattle, pigs, etc);
2) How self sufficient do you want to be?  If you don't want to buy in hay, you'll need 3-5 acres PER HEAD of cattle depending upon the productivity of your land.  It may take more to start until you undo years of commercial farming damage or if you're clearing at starting from scrubbed or timbered land.  To learn more  - google Joel Salatin.
3) How many hands (free labor) do you have to manage this endeavor?

Like you, I'm blessed with an amazing wife.  She handled the daily "homestead chores" like mowing 3.5 acres of pasture, etc.  However, we QUICKLY understood why traditional farming families had a lot of children ... you need free labor.  I say "traditional farming" to infer subsistence farming .. not mass ag operations like we see today.

Having said all of that ...

It doesn't sound like you have a lot of productive land, but I doubt you're maximizing your current property's full potential.  Before we moved to the "homestead" we were on 1/4 acre.  The entire back yard was in the process of being converted into food production.  I'd estimate the back yard to be 3/32 of an acre ... and you'd be amazed at the amount of food it produced.

Square Foot Gardening is a great book.  As is "Backyard Homestead".

You really do not need 100 acres.

I completely understand the allure of a lot of land.  My wife and I have talked about having 40+ acres since we've moved back to the suburbs.  However, once we start a detailed analysis of our 11 acre experience we always conclude:

A) Labor to manage a large operation will always be an issue.
B) Being realistic about the degree of self-sufficiency is important.  It is easy to romanticize having a full working homestead, but in our experience it would require a FULL TIME commitment or a large gaggle of teenage children ... and ... what happens when they leave?





We've discussed, and studied homesteading rather extensively (prior to the move and in the aftermath of our "failure").  Our conclusions:

1) Livestock is mandatory.  You'll need meat, milk, and eggs.  Composted poop is black gold.
2) Once you commit to livestock - you've given up your freedom.  E.g. Milking twice a day is mandatory while your animals are "in milk".  No vacations.  No sick days.  Rain, sleet, snow - you're at the milking shed.
3) You need to have a DETAILED PLAN prior to buying land.  Buy land according to your long range "master plan" (strategic goals).  E.g. if you want three cattle (milk, beef, and next year's beef) you'll need acreage for it ... especially if you don't want to buy in winter hay.
4) If you don't want large livestock or if you're okay with buying in feed - your land needs will DRAMATICALLY DECREASE.

You can EASILY get by on 5 acres of land if the land is well graded, etc. ... and you don't want to produce all of your livestock feed on site.

Animals determine the size of your operation.

If you're interested in small animals (chickens, rabbits) then small acreage will be far more rewarding.  In this case, the only advantage to large acreage would be "separation from neighbors" or "security" (this is another discussion because having more means watching more) or "timber" (firewood, construction, logging / profit to pay your increased property taxes, etc).

Using intensive gardening techniques greatly reduces the amount of property needed.  Again, having enough people to work the land is always an issue.

Questions for you to determine in your planning:

How many fruit trees do we really need?
How many nut trees do we really need and do we have enough life left to see newly planted trees produce?
How many brambles do we really need?
How large of a vegetable garden can we really maintain?
How much canning capacity do we have as a family ... and later when it is just us?
How many eggs can we eat? (BTW eggs keep well sitting in a basement ... as long as you leave the bloom on them).
How much of our own meat do we want to produce?
What kind of meat do we want to produce? Pigs, goats, cattle, sheep, chickens, rabbits?
How much timber do we need to maintain a wood supply?
How much "insulation" do we want from neighbors?
How much of our animal feed do we want to produce on site?
How self-sufficient can we realistically become based upon our careers, families, etc?
What happens when the kids leave? Who will man this operation?

These answers will yield the amount of land you need.

Now balance that acreage against ....

How are we going to pay for X acres?
How far from work will I be?
Will we have enough time to work X acres if I have to work an outside job?
Are we willing to be "that far" from family?
Are we willing to give up vacations, and other freedom to do this?

I 100% disagree with this statement.

We're completely against the "Kids First" sentiment ...

First - the parents come first.  The parent's responsibility to care for the children is omnipresent, but the children will benefit more from a loving home than a school.

Second - true self sufficiency usually ends up including home-schooling your children.

Third - children who live on a homestead have much more rewarding and productive childhoods than suburban children that spend countless hours on the soccer field or playing video games.

Fourth - children who have homestead responsibilities are taught at an early age that work = reward and failure is always a possibility (no attendance awards at a homestead).  Therefore, work hard and enjoy the fruits of your labor but be prepared for the unthinkable.  This is a foundation that at will give a homestead child an enormous advantage over urban / suburban kids.

Fifth - homestead children experience the cycle of life and understand that people and animals make sacrifices to feed other people.  Seeing first hand that your hamburger didn't come from a shrink wrapped foam container changes your view of the burger ... and the world. The children also understand what the real necessities of life are.  It isn't Nike tennis shoes, Justin Beiber downloads, and air-conditioned vacations.  It is shelter; food; water and defense.

Thanks for posting. My intention for land isn't necessarily for self-sufficiency- moreso hobby farming and leisure activities. I've had neighbors and friends growing up that had anywhere between 50-300 acres of property. Activities such as walks/hikes and trails for ATVs/dirtbikes eat up a lot of property to avoid boredom. We certainly want larger animals for meat. I have no intention to commit the kind of time milking requires at this point in my life. I'm ok with buying feed for the animals through the winter. I would be happy allowing them to roam pasture and be content for the warmer months.

While my wife is an amazing homemaker, she's not the best for farming and livestock. A lot of the burden will be in me for this, so I'm not going crazy until I have more time on my hands. My intention for the property is a nice sized yard (we have 1.5 acres of grass now and don't necessarily want anymore than that), pasture for cows/pigs/goats, garden, barn, food plots, shooting range, trails, plenty of woods for miscellaneous endeavors, etc. This won't all be started on day one of property ownership, but rather over several years. I just want to make sure I have the space to do so.

1.5 acres = very limited livestock even with buying in feed unless you're okay with that 1.5 looking and smelling like a feed lot.

I think you misunderstood me. I roughly want a 1.5 acre lawn around the house for the kids to play in, toss a football, play tag, etc.

In addition to that, I would want a pasture to keep livestock (cows, pigs, etc.)

and so the circle of life is complete.

great points.

Update: All family members (including my wife) are on board with the land that is close to my parents and the in-laws. It's really a nice piece of property. The biggest downside is timing. If this would have went up for sale next year, it wouldn't have been a problem to buy. Right now it's going to be a miracle if we're able to get financed for it and if someone doesn't buy it before we do. There is already quite a few appointments to see it this weekend. I'd really appreciate a quick prayer over the matter.

You're right - I didn't follow.  My apologies.

Update: Offer submitted to the realtor last night. She is meeting with the sellers to discuss my offer and apparently another offer that was submitted. Hopefully I'll have more information by tonight or tomorrow.

Update: The sellers have accepted our offer of the 21 acres by our family, and we're expected to close on the property mid-August. I'm still in disbelief this is happening. Plan for now is to build and move to the property around the summer of 2019 once the land is paid off. We'll certainly be up there on weekends and such working on small projects but nothing major for now. I'll eventually start a new thread once we close and take pictures of the property and barn.

Congrats!!

We just bought a new home to move onto our property, so I know that excited nervous feeling!

im happy for you.

I got you a house warming gift, but you have to log in to see it.

Thank you very much! That was very kind of you. Much appreciated sir. I was wondering what all the different options were when I came onto the website this evening. Haha

Was in the same boat, ended up staying close to family and settling on a smaller peace of land with the opportunity to buy more adjacent land down the road. Don't take your children away from the grandparents and vice versa!
I decided it would be a selfish move on my part to do so at least..

Congratulations on your new land!!!

Congrats!