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Posted: 5/24/2017 3:23:09 PM EDT
We're getting more chickens since we have a friend who is training for the Boston Marathon and is on a +30 eggs/week diet. The downside is that my formerly disinterested GP/Lab mix dogs (Bonnie and Clyde) are now harassing the chickens inside their pen.
Background: My set up is that my dog pen and their run totally encloses the chicken coop and the chickens run. Since we're out in the country, this prevents predators from harming our chickens (I've had chickens for over a year and never lost a one to a predater, knock on wood). The downside is that after I bought a few extra chickens a couple weeks ago, three of the new chickens escaped (my Rhode Island Reds never escaped) and the dogs killed all three of them; didn't eat them, just killed them. I've since hardened up the chicken coop and run and no more chicken escapes. But now the dogs are harassing the chickens inside the chickens run. I need to put a stop to it that's easier and more effective than me yelling at them from +100 yards away or taking the couple minutes it takes to walk over and then kick their ass. I need something that corrects immediately. A remotely operated training (shock?) collar sounds like it would fit the bill perfectly. But which one? What do you guys use, recommend or know about? Thanks, |
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[#1]
We use the dogtra 2300ncp. You need to train them a little to teach them that your command is reinforced by the collar. You can use one controller for two collars and you can vary the power quickly. We have a gsd and a mal,
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[#2]
Some more background:
Bonnie used to be an escape artist. It didn't matter what I did to keep her in her pen with Clyde, she would dig out and get out. 18" of fencing on the ground, cinder blocks, you name it, I tried it. Then I bit the bullet and bought a $30 electric fence charger and put a steel wire 6" above the ground inside their pen. I heard two yelps and that was the end of that. In fact, the charger hasn't even been connected to the power for the last couple of weeks, yet she's still not tried to get out. Even when I need to move water cans and feed into their pen and leave the door wide open, they still don't try to get out, the electric fence worked that good. My point: I see no need to spend more than $50 or so - if that - for something that will probably only be used for a week or so, maybe a half dozen hits total, before they learn to leave the chickens alone. I hope this helps. |
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[#3]
More than you want to spend but we have this for our GSD and love it. Great collar.
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[#4]
$50 won't get you much of a collar. I'd ask around and try to borrow one. I use a Garmin Delta Sport XC (about $230) and I'd of spent more if I'd known my range was going to be so limited.
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[#5]
Be advised an e-collar has a STEEP learning curve for the trainer and the dog. Incorrectly applied it can prove absolutely useless and ruin an otherwise decent dog.
First and foremost, it is a tool that reinforces correct behavior and deters undesirable actions. To be used effectively it MUST be used as an integrated facet to everything a dog does in its' everyday life. Expectations of it being a Magic Bullet to ONLY correct undesirable actions is a recipe for disaster. Yes, it will work for your intended solution but you must do your homework on the correct usage of an e-collar. |
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[#6]
Quoted:
Some more background: Bonnie used to be an escape artist. It didn't matter what I did to keep her in her pen with Clyde, she would dig out and get out. 18" of fencing on the ground, cinder blocks, you name it, I tried it. Then I bit the bullet and bought a $30 electric fence charger and put a steel wire 6" above the ground inside their pen. I heard two yelps and that was the end of that. In fact, the charger hasn't even been connected to the power for the last couple of weeks, yet she's still not tried to get out. Even when I need to move water cans and feed into their pen and leave the door wide open, they still don't try to get out, the electric fence worked that good. My point: I see no need to spend more than $50 or so - if that - for something that will probably only be used for a week or so, maybe a half dozen hits total, before they learn to leave the chickens alone. I hope this helps. View Quote This is going to be a little harder to break than an escape habit, because now they've tasted the kill. Dogs like the kill. Get a decent collar, and here's the advice for those dogs. SET IT ON HIGH THE FIRST TIME. It will save them shocks, it will save you stress. Try it on yourself if you're one of those people who needs to do that, but I guarantee you will not harm your dogs. A hard hit a couple of times is better than the frustration and the elongated process of trying to take it easy on the dogs. And I have some advice that's going to sound opposite to most people's. I agree completely with using shock devices to reinforce commands. However... In THIS CASE, you want to teach the dogs that harassing the chickens is bad, whether you are there to tell them "no" or not. Later, in case you ever want to let the dogs out with the chickens in the yard or small animals, you can then use the collar (ahead of time) to teach command reinforcement. Dogs are sneaky bastards when they get their mind on something like chasing and killing. They need to believe that the whole idea is a bad idea. I would hide, (downwind) wait for the behavior (that moment you see them notice the chickens, then turn toward the chickens with that "look" in their eye?) THAT is when they need the correction. It's a matter of timing and strong, immediate action to teach your dogs that "even the IDEA of chasing those chickens is a bad, bad thing, one that makes my life hell. Chickens are evil. Don't f*ck with them." Just my opinion Now then, many people do not have "dog sense" and the timing to know exactly when to push that button, and when the dog is just looking around for a place to take a dump. If you are one of those people, this won't work. You'll confuse the dog. But if you know how to watch the dog's body and attitude and know when he's on the brink of getting into trouble, this will work for you. |
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[#7]
Quoted:
Be advised an e-collar has a STEEP learning curve for the trainer and the dog. Incorrectly applied it can prove absolutely useless and ruin an otherwise decent dog. First and foremost, it is a tool that reinforces correct behavior and deters undesirable actions. To be used effectively it MUST be used as an integrated facet to everything a dog does in its' everyday life. Expectations of it being a Magic Bullet to ONLY correct undesirable actions is a recipe for disaster. Yes, it will work for your intended solution but you must do your homework on the correct usage of an e-collar. View Quote And I should go on to say.. Poorly behaved dogs need discipline all the way around. If you don't want to take the time for this, you're likely to make a mess of your dogs, and still have chicken killers. |
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[#8]
Quoted:
SET IT ON HIGH THE FIRST TIME. View Quote I have a Tri-Tronics e-collar that is 3 generations old and I know how to use it. It is currently in use on an 18mos DDR German Shepherd and she has been wearing it daily when we work for the last year. Sometime back in the day I consorted with an evil blond and ended up with an absolutely fabulous Gordon Setter when the dust cleared. I got the best part of the deal. This dog was such a joy - smart, trainable,sociable; everything you could possibly want in a dog ever. Pre-ME, The Gordon had been subjected to e-collar "training" by the evil blond. The Gordon was curious and as such she would not hold a 'Place' command. If I started to move; she was by God going with me so I figured I needed to re-acquaint her with the e-collar to firm up that Place command. The evil Blond said she was familiar with it. Boy was she ever!! Taking it out of the box to charge it on the counter caused the Gordon to tuck tail and hide under the table. She would not come out until the e-collar disappeared. The single time I attempted to place it on her neck, she made a puddle right in the kitchen floor -the only time she EVER urinated in the house. So what kinda training you reckon that Gordon had with that e-collar? So go ahead and set that e-collar on HIGH right out of the box. You will be stunned and ashamed of the reaction from your beloved pet. The yelp of pain and surprise approaches a scream and the rictus induced momentarily approximates a Taser. There is a proper process to go through when training with an e-collar. I would strongly advise *anyone* to fully acquaint themselves with correct training info. Many top shelf dog trainers do not allow e-collars anywhere on their property or around their dogs. There is a reason for that. |
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[#9]
Quoted:
Christ. I have a Tri-Tronics e-collar that is 3 generations old and I know how to use it. It is currently in use on an 18mos DDR German Shepherd and she has been wearing it daily when we work for the last year. Sometime back in the day I consorted with an evil blond and ended up with an absolutely fabulous Gordon Setter when the dust cleared. I got the best part of the deal. This dog was such a joy - smart, trainable,sociable; everything you could possibly want in a dog ever. Pre-ME, The Gordon had been subjected to e-collar "training" by the evil blond. The Gordon was curious and as such she would not hold a 'Place' command. If I started to move; she was by God going with me so I figured I needed to re-acquaint her with the e-collar to firm up that Place command. The evil Blond said she was familiar with it. Boy was she ever!! Taking it out of the box to charge it on the counter caused the Gordon to tuck tail and hide under the table. She would not come out until the e-collar disappeared. The single time I attempted to place it on her neck, she made a puddle right in the kitchen floor -the only time she EVER urinated in the house. So what kinda training you reckon that Gordon had with that e-collar? So go ahead and set that e-collar on HIGH right out of the box. You will be stunned and ashamed of the reaction from your beloved pet. The yelp of pain and surprise approaches a scream and the rictus induced momentarily approximates a Taser. There is a proper process to go through when training with an e-collar. I would strongly advise *anyone* to fully acquaint themselves with correct training info. Many top shelf dog trainers do not allow e-collars anywhere on their property or around their dogs. There is a reason for that. View Quote But I don't agree that it's reality for this OP. That scream of pain? That's what it takes to stop a dog from killing chickens. And the alternative could be either getting rid of his chickens or putting his dogs down. Both of those suck. A few minutes of intense indoctrination for the dog is usually less painful for everyone involved. Have you ever actually had to accomplish this task with training before? I have. I'm not even sure it's possible, once they've had a taste of it. I've been successful, but it was not pretty. This is not a "he needs to stay when we tell him to stay" situation. I've trained dogs for 25 years. I've used a shock collar a number of times, only when it was necessary. It is my last resort. But I know dog behavior, and I know what happens once they get the feel for the chase/kill. I've seen dog after dog after dog--strong breeds like these--learn to tolerate the shock when people build up slowly. I'm not going to fight with you from this point forward, but that evil blonde? That's EXACTLY what I was describing...a person who cannot read the dog and uses the damn button haphazardly every time the dog moves. It's why I gave the admonitions...if the OP can't read his dog's body language, he has no business using the shock collar. You can be sanctimonious about training, and many, many trainers are when they deal only with normal training issues most people have. But this is hard cold reality. If you don't want to actually give the dog a significantly painful correction, the OP is not going to accomplish what he's after. The dog you're speaking of? That's not a particularly "hard" dog. All the more reason it did not deserve stupid use of a collar, with the wrong person pushing the button. But harder breeds...they require a different approach when they've killed. Maybe the Lab in the OPs dogs will override the other breeding, but I doubt it. And honestly, Labs can be the most stubborn of breeds if they're undisciplined and learn to kill. I have seen more labs kill more chickens, ducks and guineas than any other breed. Chicken killing dogs end up with lead poisoning. That's a bad end. Maybe he has to keep them penned somewhere else on his property, but every time a chicken sticks its head through that fence, or gets out, the impulse to chase and kill is like nothing you've ever seen, unless you've seen THIS EXACT scenario. Have you? Honestly? And have you successfully corrected the behavior when the alpha is not present? Because dogs are smart and sneaky. They will learn within a week that when the OP is present, they can't kill. But when he is not (and they DO know when he is not present) they can do whatever they want. Because he will not use the collar as punishment. (He won't, right, OP? Because it doesn't work that way.) Now...the OP will read our opinions. Let's let him make his own choice. We are not jacking this thread with our disagreement about training techniques. |
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[#10]
Quoted:
You know what? I understand where you're coming from. But I don't agree that it's reality for this OP. That scream of pain? That's what it takes to stop a dog from killing chickens. And the alternative could be either getting rid of his chickens or putting his dogs down. Both of those suck. A few minutes of intense indoctrination for the dog is usually less painful for everyone involved. Have you ever actually had to accomplish this task with training before? I have. I'm not even sure it's possible, once they've had a taste of it. I've been successful, but it was not pretty. This is not a "he needs to stay when we tell him to stay" situation. I've trained dogs for 25 years. I've used a shock collar a number of times, only when it was necessary. It is my last resort. But I know dog behavior, and I know what happens once they get the feel for the chase/kill. I've seen dog after dog after dog--strong breeds like these--learn to tolerate the shock when people build up slowly. I'm not going to fight with you from this point forward, but that evil blonde? That's EXACTLY what I was describing...a person who cannot read the dog and uses the damn button haphazardly every time the dog moves. It's why I gave the admonitions...if the OP can't read his dog's body language, he has no business using the shock collar. You can be sanctimonious about training, and many, many trainers are when they deal only with normal training issues most people have. But this is hard cold reality. If you don't want to actually give the dog a significantly painful correction, the OP is not going to accomplish what he's after. The dog you're speaking of? That's not a particularly "hard" dog. All the more reason it did not deserve stupid use of a collar, with the wrong person pushing the button. But harder breeds...they require a different approach when they've killed. Maybe the Lab in the OPs dogs will override the other breeding, but I doubt it. And honestly, Labs can be the most stubborn of breeds if they're undisciplined and learn to kill. I have seen more labs kill more chickens, ducks and guineas than any other breed. Chicken killing dogs end up with lead poisoning. That's a bad end. Maybe he has to keep them penned somewhere else on his property, but every time a chicken sticks its head through that fence, or gets out, the impulse to chase and kill is like nothing you've ever seen, unless you've seen THIS EXACT scenario. Have you? Honestly? And have you successfully corrected the behavior when the alpha is not present? Because dogs are smart and sneaky. They will learn within a week that when the OP is present, they can't kill. But when he is not (and they DO know when he is not present) they can do whatever they want. Because he will not use the collar as punishment. (He won't, right, OP? Because it doesn't work that way.) Now...the OP will read our opinions. Let's let him make his own choice. We are not jacking this thread with our disagreement about training techniques. View Quote |
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[#11]
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[#12]
Quoted:
You know what? I understand where you're coming from. But I don't agree that it's reality for this OP. Let's let him make his own choice. We are not jacking this thread with our disagreement about training techniques. View Quote A young bull and an old bull were standing on top of a hill; gazing down at a herd of cows in the valley below..... YMMV, it is the way of the world. |
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[#14]
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Agreed all the way around. I am an Old Man and look at the world through aged eyes. When it comes to what I know and don't know, new and different is dwarfed scores over by knowledge in hand. A young bull and an old bull were standing on top of a hill; gazing down at a herd of cows in the valley below..... YMMV, it is the way of the world. View Quote We are probably both old bulls.. No wait.... There is no good way out of this. I bet we think more alike than different. Your evil blonde...I would hurt her. |
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[#15]
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Any other recommendations for a training collar? View Quote BUT.. I will tell you that whatever collar you purchase, you should probably spend the extra $10-15 on the extra-long electrode prongs. Your dogs have relatively long hair and likely double coats. Regular prongs won't reach through that, and they will look at you and go Even with the extra long prongs, you may need to trim/clip the collar area. Don't try to put the prongs on the top of the dog's neck. The dog will shake his/her head and the prongs will end up at the throat. They ALWAYS end up at the throat, even when the collar is too tight. (and you don't really want to make it too tight.) Please take the caveats seriously. You can wreck a dog's psyche by misusing a shock collar. You can turn your dogs into useless, unteachable, worthless animals very quickly. Spend some time watching your dogs without the collars on. (Get on the roof if you have to, and use binoculars). Watch their body language. Watch when they get interested in the chickens. Watch how their whole body tells the tale. "Ima get that critter!!!" THEN BAM, they start forward. Right before the "Bam" is when they need the hit. If you cannot do this, don't use the collar. You will fuck up your dogs if you try to shortcut this. And they don't deserve that,. Honestly...you set them up for a fall here. ( You did not mean to, but you did.) They took that fall. That's not their fault. Now you want them to climb back out of the pit you dug for them. (not trying to be ugly, but this is the bottom line.) So take care how you manage their climb out of that pit. They did not do anythign they understood was wrong. But now you're going to try to make them know it's wrong, and that's like telling a teenage boy that sex is wrong. Consider that when you approach this. It might be better to move the dogs, and change your tactics for chicken protection, than turn the dogs into mental and emotional jello. No dog deserves that. |
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[#16]
Quoted:
We are probably both old bulls.. No wait.... There is no good way out of this. I bet we think more alike than different. Your evil blonde...I would hurt her. View Quote The evil blonde was the quartet of my marriage history and a most enjoyable 20 yr younger trophy specimen. It was pay to play and worth every nickel. Post-ME, she has managed to burn down and self-destruct in textbook fashion. Looks don't last forever and if that is all you have in the bank, it sucks to be you at 50. FOR THE OP I would recommend the Garmin Delta XC collar. Full features, multi dog capable and it has tone and vibration modes. After a year of usage, my GSD will correct with just tone 90% of the time. She knows what happens next. If you are looking for cheap - The XC is $169 on Amazon- rethink what a $100 is VS the value of a really good dog. And again, she wears the collar whenever we are working (interacting). Raising good dogs is like raising kids. There is an investment of time and money required. Just like some folks shouldn't multiply, there is them that shouldn't have dogs neither. YMMV, I ain't the Dog Police |
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[#17]
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[#18]
Quoted:
[snip] FOR THE OP I would recommend the Garmin Delta XC collar. Full features, multi dog capable and it has tone and vibration modes. After a year of usage, my GSD will correct with just tone 90% of the time. She knows what happens next. If you are looking for cheap - The XC is $169 on Amazon- rethink what a $100 is VS the value of a really good dog. And again, she wears the collar whenever we are working (interacting). Raising good dogs is like raising kids. There is an investment of time and money required. Just like some folks shouldn't multiply, there is them that shouldn't have dogs neither. YMMV, I ain't the Dog Police View Quote How long do the batteries last, especially the collar batteries? Thanks, |
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[#19]
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Looking at that now, still more than I want spend (and put in a drawer in a couple of weeks, never to be used again). How long do the batteries last, especially the collar batteries? Thanks, View Quote Please do some reading on e-collar training techniques and the mental change in latitude that goes with using one effectively. My Bro has a 4yo German bred Doberman bitch that is a real bruiser and an intimidating bully. He uses an e-collar but calls it a "shock collar" so you can kinda guess where this is going. When the dog gets just completely unruly he will strap on the shock collar for a week or so and she is a perfect angel. Shock collar comes off and she immediately reverts. If the dog associates stiff corrections with wearing the collar that is what happens. Basically he is screwed because she has learned the difference and even if he went back to square one and used the collar in best use practice I doubt she would change behavior. I can't change his behavior either. I think I remember you have two dogs? So you would need two collars and a transmitter that accommodates that. |
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[#20]
Quoted:
The batteries in the receiver will last for two 8 hr sessions at least - maybe more and this unit is 8+ years old. I put mine on the charger nightly. I cannot remember the last time I changed the battery in the transmitter. Please do some reading on e-collar training techniques and the mental change in latitude that goes with using one effectively. My Bro has a 4yo German bred Doberman bitch that is a real bruiser and an intimidating bully. He uses an e-collar but calls it a "shock collar" so you can kinda guess where this is going. When the dog gets just completely unruly he will strap on the shock collar for a week or so and she is a perfect angel. Shock collar comes off and she immediately reverts. If the dog associates stiff corrections with wearing the collar that is what happens. Basically he is screwed because she has learned the difference and even if he went back to square one and used the collar in best use practice I doubt she would change behavior. I can't change his behavior either. I think I remember you have two dogs? So you would need two collars and a transmitter that accommodates that. View Quote It's one of the biggest difficulties with these as training tools, to me. |
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[#21]
Quoted:
The batteries in the receiver will last for two 8 hr sessions at least - maybe more and this unit is 8+ years old. I put mine on the charger nightly. I cannot remember the last time I changed the battery in the transmitter. [snip] I think I remember you have two dogs? So you would need two collars and a transmitter that accommodates that. View Quote But for Phase 1, I only need one collar and that's for Bonnie; Clyde doesn't bother the chickens at least that I've observed. Having said that, I'll still get two collars so that I can hot swap one on Bonnie and always have a charged collar on her until it's no longer needed. Phase 2 is where I install a portal for the chickens in their chicken run so they can free range. The portal will exit into the dog run so the dogs can protect the portal from predators. Which means I'll still need two collars, one for each dog, to teach them to leave the chickens alone while they are running around inside the dog run. This assumes that Phase 1 is successful. If Phase 1 isn't successful, I'll only need 1 collar. |
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[#22]
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Yes I have two dogs in the dog run around the chicken coop (it's in the thread title). But for Phase 1, I only need one collar and that's for Bonnie; Clyde doesn't bother the chickens at least that I've observed. Having said that, I'll still get two collars so that I can hot swap one on Bonnie and always have a charged collar on her until it's no longer needed. Phase 2 is where I install a portal for the chickens in their chicken run so they can free range. The portal will exit into the dog run so the dogs can protect the portal from predators. Which means I'll still need two collars, one for each dog, to teach them to leave the chickens alone while they are running around inside the dog run. This assumes that Phase 1 is successful. If Phase 1 isn't successful, I'll only need 1 collar. View Quote I hope you will take them in the spirit they're intended, because I don't mean them in any ugly way, and I don't mean them to sound judgemental. Rethinking might save you (and your family) some real anguish. I truly am only asking for the benefit of you and your dogs....but before you spend this money, I wonder if you might stop and reconsider why this plan is worth that. Is there a reason you won't consider other options for chicken protection? I know you wanted this to work, and it's a GREAT idea. But sounds like you started it with no training or help for the dogs. They messed up, and now they're going to get punished and maybe even die for this plan. Do you actually value those chickens, and this arrangement, enough to put a dog down? Couldn't she be kenneled? Certainly if she's in a pen now, she wouldn't suffer terribly being kenneled in a different run. A chicken killing dog is really only a problem if that dog is allowed to run loose to chase and kill. I've killed a few of those dogs by my own hand. (Other people's dogs --people who would not control them) What if the other one gets a taste for chicken...are you going to choose having chickens over having dogs? Or will you get more dogs and try each one until you find one that does what you need? I'm asking these hard questions because honestly, I'm not sure why you are so set on this, and it sounds like everybody (including you) but the chickens will be the losers. LOTS of people successfully keep chickens without having the run surrounded by a dog pen. I mean it when I say....it's a great idea. But you have to go into it planning to teach the dogs, and not assume they will know what you expect of them. As a person who has seen the canine capacity for compassion, forgiveness, self-sacrifice and love more times than I can count, I feel really bad for the dog who didn't know, and now could actually die for it. |
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[#23]
I'm not going to answer any of that. She learns to leave the chickens alone or she's gone. It's that simple.
Now, back to the subject of the thread: Does anyone have recommendations for a dog training collar? Edited to remove the insult in a tech forum. ~Kitties |
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[#24]
Quoted:
I'm not going to answer any of that. She learns to leave the chickens alone or she's gone. It's that simple. Now, back to the subject of the thread: Does anyone have recommendations for a dog training collar? View Quote However, you've gotten your recommendations for collars, and you have not liked them. Looks to me like you want answers that don't exist where that is concerned. If all you want is that, and no other opinions about your approach, then this subject is borderline for this forum, and might better be suited to pets, where there are more people who work with animals. I suspect you might get some different answers in there. |
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[#25]
Tri-tronics. By far the best value for the money and the two times I've had to contact their support (both my fuckups) they were fantastic.
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[#26]
Quoted:
Tri-tronics. By far the best value for the money and the two times I've had to contact their support (both my fuckups) they were fantastic. View Quote Garmin purchased Tri-Tronics. The new Garmin/Tri-Tronics PRO Series replaces the G3 EXP trainers. And for the OP, many suggestions for collars with anecdotal backup. Since none seem to suit you I offer this. It should be within your budget. I was less than 7 years old when this event occurred so juvenile naivete or the statute of limitations certainly apply. This was, of course, well before the advent of e-collars. Back in the early 60's my Grandfather lived on the edge of a rural hamlet of maybe 50 souls. Nobody kept their dogs up - and every house had a porch full of curs and feists. Household trash of the dry non-foodstuff variety was burned in a burn barrel. Wet trash was taken off I-don't-know-where when the can became full. Trash bags generally were old paper grocery sacks so handling the soggy bags a second time was a crap shoot. The town dogs started turning over his barrel and rustling through the detritus and made a huge mess that covered a good bit of the back yard. Night after night they did this even though he tried strapping the barrel and weighting it and all sorts of other things. No bueno! - and it pissed him off mightily. So he got an electrical cord that terminated in two bare wires and a glass dinner plate. After Sunday chicken dinner he told my Grandmother "Sug, gimme those chicken bones." He wrapped the bare hot wire around a chicken leg bone and placed it in the plate. The trigger bone was carefully disguised with additional parts of a chicken skeleton. He wrapped the ground wire around a nail and drove it into the earth. About dark, he plugged the canine behavioral correction device into the wall of the pump house. We were auditory witness to several correction events during the course of watching the Ed Sullivan Show. It was repeated on 2 subsequent evenings. My 5+ decades memory of this event indicates it was successful in outcome. YMMV Local laws and restrictions may apply. |
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[#27]
Quoted:
I'm not going to answer any of that. She learns to leave the chickens alone or she's gone. It's that simple. Now, back to the subject of the thread: Does anyone have recommendations for a dog training collar? Edited to remove the insult in a tech forum. ~Kitties View Quote Give up your plan. It was dumb the first time I read about it. Its dumb now. This plan might work if you were inside the perimeter working, all the time. You set up the dogs for failure, now you're going to add to it. This problem wont be fixed in 2 weeks so you can put the collars in a drawer. The fact that you think you're going to need to hot swap collars means you dont have a clue what you need to do to train the dogs. |
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[#28]
Quoted:
Okay. However, you've gotten your recommendations for collars, and you have not liked them. Looks to me like you want answers that don't exist where that is concerned. If all you want is that, and no other opinions about your approach, then this subject is borderline for this forum, and might better be suited to pets, where there are more people who work with animals. I suspect you might get some different answers in there. View Quote Amazon lists something like 3500 training collars; even if you divide by 100 that still leaves 35. We haven't even started. I have not asked nor requested opinions about my approach for one simple reason: I've used training collars before. On a basic level, they are nothing more than 100 yard leashes: You observe the behavior, issue a command, if not followed, issue the correction. Last time (~10 years ago) I borrowed a neighbor's collar, used it for 2 days, gave it back, problem solved, problem stayed solved. Have no clue what model or make was and the neighbor is now long gone. Pretty much the same thing happened about 7-8 years ago for a barking dog we had back then: used a barking dog collar for two days, into the drawer it went, never to be seen again. ETA: The one exception advice that I did appreciate was the "go to High right off the bat". I planned to do this anyway, see my comments about the two dogs learning about the electric fence: it hurt a couple times, but then doesn't hurt at all now since they respect the dog run boundaries. |
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[#29]
Quoted:
I have a collar suggestion. Give up your plan. It was dumb the first time I read about it. Its dumb now. This plan might work if you were inside the perimeter working, all the time. You set up the dogs for failure, now you're going to add to it. This problem wont be fixed in 2 weeks so you can put the collars in a drawer. The fact that you think you're going to need to hot swap collars means you dont have a clue what you need to do to train the dogs. View Quote Chickens went into their coop and run May 2016, which as stated, is completely surrounded by the dog run. Did great, never bothered the chickens nor chased them, harassed them etc. etc. etc. Until Sept. 2016 when I harvested 5 of my 6 roosters, there were 10 chickens in the coop and run, all Rhode Island Reds. Forward to late April 2017, I added a mixed bag of 6 new hens. Only one of two dogs then started harassing the chickens and 6 chickens escaped their run and 3 of those died (definitely my fault, but the RIRs never escaped either for 11 months, oh well). In case you can't or won't do the math, that's 11 out of 12 months of dog protection with zero downside. Hardly failure. And you'll also note that's it's been a while since I started this thread yet still haven't bought a collar. That's because the incidence of chicken harassment has fallen way off. In the last two weeks, the only time I've observed Bonnie interested in the chickens is the one time my rooster and I have had to do our monthly "who's in charge" dance, which was a couple days ago. Good rooster but sorta dumb since he never wins. Also note that I added 5 new mixed bag hens in early May (for a total of 12 hens and one rooster). I'll probably still need a collar (actually 2) since I do plan to move forward with Phase 2 so I can free range the chickens but are still protected by the dogs (i.e. have my cake and eat it too). |
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[#30]
Quoted:
Come on. By my count there has been maybe 3-4 specific brand/model recommendation plus maybe 2-3 general ones (i.e. get a Tritonic or whatever). So, according to you, that covers the waterfront? Amazon lists something like 3500 training collars; even if you divide by 100 that still leaves 35. We haven't even started. View Quote |
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