User Panel
Posted: 4/21/2017 6:29:38 AM EDT
As the title states, what DIY soil tests are accurate? We currently have one of the electronic types with the three attached probes that you
stick in the soil, but I have a hard time believing that it's accurate. What works? We're doubling the garden this year, putting in 18 12x4 raised beds, a three-bin compost setup, and a 10x12 greenhouse. Hoping to increase our production by tailoring each bed's soil to the needs of each particular crop. Thanks for any info. |
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Most home test kits aren't worth the money or your time. Contact your Ag Extension office, and they'll have sample bags you fill up and return to them. They'll send it to a real lab and get you the results back.
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Most home test kits aren't worth the money or your time. Contact your Ag Extension office, and they'll have sample bags you fill up and return to them. They'll send it to a real lab and get you the results back. View Quote |
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I posted in that thread that I was going to post here.
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I would get a soil sample bag(s) from your local extension office, or order them from Midwest Laboratories. You will want an S3C analysis from them when submitting the order. 6-inch deep samples. There are many companies that you can work with. We send in 100's to this company every year in my line of work. Let me know if you need any help with interpretation of your results.
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If a home soil test kit could be had, even for several thousand dollars, I bet MANY farmers out there would have them; yet every year hundreds of thousands of soil samples are sent in to laboratories from farms all across the country for a reason. No "home-level" or even "very expensive user-level" kit exists that will accurately determine what you want it to do...
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Check out Elaine Ingham's videos on YouTube. I think her answer to your queation would be a microscope.
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I would get a soil sample bag(s) from your local extension office, or order them from Midwest Laboratories. You will want an S3C analysis from them when submitting the order. 6-inch deep samples. There are many companies that you can work with. We send in 100's to this company every year in my line of work. Let me know if you need any help with interpretation of your results. View Quote |
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If a home soil test kit could be had, even for several thousand dollars, I bet MANY farmers out there would have them; yet every year hundreds of thousands of soil samples are sent in to laboratories from farms all across the country for a reason. No "home-level" or even "very expensive user-level" kit exists that will accurately determine what you want it to do... View Quote |
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Yep, pretty much what everyone has said.
You won't get what you're needing from a home kit. If I were doing raised beds. I'd either fill them with a known mix (that doesn't just mean one mix. You can figure out what you've got in there if you know what you're mixing together to get your growing medium) or I'd do EXACTLY the same mixture of stuff in each raised bed, then I'd sample from each bed, mix it all together, and get ONE sample from all of that, and send it off, marked as a veggie garden. Our soil tests are less than $10 at the extension office. Yours are likely not a great amount more (though I could be wrong of course) from your extension service. It's worth it. |
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Yep, pretty much what everyone has said. You won't get what you're needing from a home kit. If I were doing raised beds. I'd either fill them with a known mix (that doesn't just mean one mix. You can figure out what you've got in there if you know what you're mixing together to get your growing medium) or I'd do EXACTLY the same mixture of stuff in each raised bed, then I'd sample from each bed, mix it all together, and get ONE sample from all of that, and send it off, marked as a veggie garden. Our soil tests are less than $10 at the extension office. Yours are likely not a great amount more (though I could be wrong of course) from your extension service. It's worth it. View Quote Last year we planted in plastic covered raised rows in a 30' x 40' plot that we prepared by tilling in about 8 yards of organic compost. Last fall we doubled the length of the garden to 90', and tilled in partially composted horse manure. Because the two areas have had different treatment, we sent in a sample from each (6 samples taken 6" down and mixed for each area). The plan is to build the beds, "double dig" with a spade and fork, then add some compost and amendments in each as needed based on the test results. |
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We sent our samples to UNH Cooperative Extension for testing. $17 each, and the reports should take two or three weeks. What we were looking for was something as a supplemental way to test during the season but it seems from reading the comments here and the reviews of various products online that there really isn't anything available that's likely to be accurate. Last year we planted in plastic covered raised rows in a 30' x 40' plot that we prepared by tilling in about 8 yards of organic compost. Last fall we doubled the length of the garden to 90', and tilled in partially composted horse manure. Because the two areas have had different treatment, we sent in a sample from each (6 samples taken 6" down and mixed for each area). The plan is to build the beds, "double dig" with a spade and fork, then add some compost and amendments in each as needed based on the test results. View Quote I would be interested in knowing the test results and how they differ after those two different treatments. |
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Wonderful job amending your soil! I would be interested in knowing the test results and how they differ after those two different treatments. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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We sent our samples to UNH Cooperative Extension for testing. $17 each, and the reports should take two or three weeks. What we were looking for was something as a supplemental way to test during the season but it seems from reading the comments here and the reviews of various products online that there really isn't anything available that's likely to be accurate. Last year we planted in plastic covered raised rows in a 30' x 40' plot that we prepared by tilling in about 8 yards of organic compost. Last fall we doubled the length of the garden to 90', and tilled in partially composted horse manure. Because the two areas have had different treatment, we sent in a sample from each (6 samples taken 6" down and mixed for each area). The plan is to build the beds, "double dig" with a spade and fork, then add some compost and amendments in each as needed based on the test results. I would be interested in knowing the test results and how they differ after those two different treatments. |
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What would be really interesting is if you picked up a cheapie home test kit too, and compared the results side by side. Might prove us all wrong!
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You can post it here. Others would benefit too. And... I will forget. I have no mind anymore, even for things I care about. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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What would be really interesting is if you picked up a cheapie home test kit too, and compared the results side by side. Might prove us all wrong! View Quote |
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I think I will buy one of the chemical type kits as an experiment. I'll also definitely try our little "stick it in the ground meter" to see if it's even close. View Quote I would still never substitute, as the cheapy kits can't give any kind of detail, but it would be fun to see the results. |
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@rca2222 Did you get your results back yet? View Quote The Ferry Morse El Cheapo plug-in-the-ground meter showed 6.0ph and "Not Fertile". The soil test results from UNH were surprising. It turns out we over-composted last year, resulting in really high numbers, or perhaps "too fertile". - PH 6.8 - Calcium 1758.6 ppm (optimal 800-1200) - Magnesium 296 ppm (optimal 60-120) - Potassium 355 ppm (optimal 170-280) - Phosphorus 194 ppm (optimal 30-50) - Organic Matter 7.88% I spoke with the Cooperative extension rep and she recommended to do no fertilizing this year. The potato beds will benefit from PH at 6.0, so we need to adjust in those areas. Had we relied on the Ferry Morse meter we would have added compost or fertilizer to the entire garden and made the problem worse. @Kitties-with-Sigs |
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I did, and have been meaning to post... The Ferry Morse El Cheapo plug-in-the-ground meter showed 6.0ph and "Not Fertile". The soil test results from UNH were surprising. It turns out we over-composted last year, resulting in really high numbers, or perhaps "too fertile". - PH 6.8 - Calcium 1758.6 ppm (optimal 800-1200) - Magnesium 296 ppm (optimal 60-120) - Potassium 355 ppm (optimal 170-280) - Phosphorus 194 ppm (optimal 30-50) - Organic Matter 7.88% I spoke with the Cooperative extension rep and she recommended to do no fertilizing this year. The potato beds will benefit from PH at 6.0, so we need to adjust in those areas. Had we relied on the Ferry Morse meter we would have added compost or fertilizer to the entire garden and made the problem worse. @Kitties-with-Sigs View Quote Did they give you any kind of nitrogen analysis, or are they assuming the pH will be the tell? ETA: Reading back through your existing amendments.. You plan to double dig the bed. What that will do is dilute (somewhat) your mix, and that will change your current standing for some of that analysis. That's not a bad thing. And you can adjust on the fly with liquid fertilizers (even manure tea, if you're trying to go organic, but you have to make this in advance) for many things. However, "over-fertile" is USUALLY not a problem. I'm still just interested in the N level. With all that manure, I would assume it's okay except..you put it on last year, and Nitrogen leaches, and you're on the base end of the scale. You said: "made the problem worse" and I ASSUME by that you meant you would have gone the wrong direction. BUT....are you saying you had an actual plant growth/development/fruiting problem last year? I'm guessing that's not what you meant by "problem" but I think I better ask just in case. |
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That's very interesting. Did they give you any kind of nitrogen analysis, or are they assuming the pH will be the tell? ETA: Reading back through your existing amendments.. You plan to double dig the bed. What that will do is dilute (somewhat) your mix, and that will change your current standing for some of that analysis. That's not a bad thing. And you can adjust on the fly with liquid fertilizers (even manure tea, if you're trying to go organic, but you have to make this in advance) for many things. However, "over-fertile" is USUALLY not a problem. I'm still just interested in the N level. With all that manure, I would assume it's okay except..you put it on last year, and Nitrogen leaches, and you're on the base end of the scale. You said: "made the problem worse" and I ASSUME by that you meant you would have gone the wrong direction. BUT....are you saying you had an actual plant growth/development/fruiting problem last year? I'm guessing that's not what you meant by "problem" but I think I better ask just in case. View Quote Making the problem worse was indeed in reference to fertilizing based on a false indication. Last year we did well. Melons, pumpkins, bush beans and tomatoes were the big producers. We had too much to deal with so we gave bags and bags of the stuff away to neighbors...I think we became the vegetable distributing equivalent of Jehova's Witnesses in our AO. |
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Any home kit or probe kit isn't accurate. The labs are the only way to do a paste and titration test unless you have one hell of a chemistry set. If you need to know, pay the $400 bucks and have it sent off to a lab. A local ag co-op may be able to help you out.
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There was nothing specific in the results with regard to nitrogen. I don't know enough abut the relevant chemistry to say that they presumed that PH was an indicator. Making the problem worse was indeed in reference to fertilizing based on a false indication. Last year we did well. Melons, pumpkins, bush beans and tomatoes were the big producers. We had too much to deal with so we gave bags and bags of the stuff away to neighbors...I think we became the vegetable distributing equivalent of Jehova's Witnesses in our AO. View Quote Nitrogen is acidifying. You can ALMOST think of Nitrogen as acid. So the fact that you have a slightly high pH (not much. 6.5 is considered relatively optimal for many garden plants) --Do you know the pH scale? 7 is the middle/neutral (scale runs 0 to 14) but 7 is generally too high for most garden plants. What happens is that certain nutrients are not available unless the pH level is within certain ranges (this is a chemistry thing, and has to do with how the soil colloids/particles hold onto minerals or do not hold onto them, sort of...jeez this is so broad as to be almost inaccurate) For the soil to release the mineral (chemists would kill me here) there has to be a certain range of acidity in the soil...so the chemical reactions can take place. So when you see that a plant needs a certain pH range, that's almost ALWAYS why. At a pH of 6, we usually need to add a little lime (basic) to bring the pH up a bit where I live. You've got it pretty high. don't know exactly what components added up to that, but getting it down to 6.5 MIGHT be useful to you, depending on what you want to grow. It's an easy search. Just google what plant you are growing, and ask the question..."Best pH for squash".... You'll get an answer. If you search for all the things you want to grow, and make a list, you'll know how close you are. One of the EASY ways to correct a soil pH that is slightly high, is to add some acid in the form of nitrogen. If you see "miracid" for instance (that's miracle grow's acidifying fertilizer) you will see that it's something like 30-10-10. Those numbers, IN ORDER are ALWAYS Nitrogen, Phorphorus, and Potassium (N, P, K) So you will see that Miracid, an acidifying fertilizer, is MOSTLY nitrogen. Certain nutrients are not available to the plant (I'm not even going to approach the chemistry of this) unless there is enough acid in the soil. EXAMPLE: Chlorosis (Iron deficiency in plants) is one of those issues, and is very common in ornamentals. Less common in veggie gardens unless the grower is using a lot of undecomposed mulch on the garden. (Decomposition of mulch requires a lot of nitrogen, so it sucks the nitrogen out of the root zone, and there's not enough for the plants....sometimes. ) With Chlorosis, the IRON is not available to the plant unless the soil has enough available nitrogen (and hydrogen, but forget about that) ("Not available" means it can't get released fro the soil so the plant can take it up, OR the plant itself can't grab onto it because of how the plant is chemically constructed, and what ions are hanging out on the tiniest roots) Okay have I thoroughly confused you? Basically if I see an acidic soil, I think, "Okay, plenty of N availability." If I see a basic soil, I think, "what's the nitrogen analysis in the soil test? is there enough?" I'm sort of surprised that you didn't get one. You might ask your extension agent about that. I'm interested in why that was not included, as OUR veggie garden analysis always includes basic NPK spectrum, and does NOT include as many trace elements as you have in yours. Different strokes for different labs, maybe. But Nitrogen is a very fundamental Let me just say...I LOVE soil science--it was one of my favorite parts of school. But I am NOT a chemist. Any decent chemist would smoke most of what I am saying with his/her understanding of how it works, if they'd had a soils class. (How soil reacts to chemistry is a whole different thing, and how plants take up those elements is a whole different thing.) I know just enough to squint my eyes at the numbers and maybe make corrections. |
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Now then..
OP, if you did good with your garden last year, don't mess with it unless you have changed the mix. If you need to adjust that pH a little, you now have the understanding of how/why to do that. If you can't grasp the "on the ground" part of it, ask. There was a lot of theory (sort of ) in what I wrote up there. That's not often actually useful on the ground. So...ask. Lots of folks here have more garden knowledge than I do. You will get good answers. |
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Any home kit or probe kit isn't accurate. The labs are the only way to do a paste and titration test unless you have one hell of a chemistry set. If you need to know, pay the $400 bucks and have it sent off to a lab. A local ag co-op may be able to help you out. View Quote |
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Chemistry: This is WAY OVERSIMPLIFIED and DOWN AND DIRTY...but.. Nitrogen is acidifying. You can ALMOST think of Nitrogen as acid. So the fact that you have a slightly high pH (not much. 6.5 is considered relatively optimal for many garden plants) --Do you know the pH scale? 7 is the middle/neutral (scale runs 0 to 14) but 7 is generally too high for most garden plants. What happens is that certain nutrients are not available unless the pH level is within certain ranges (this is a chemistry thing, and has to do with how the soil colloids/particles hold onto minerals or do not hold onto them, sort of...jeez this is so broad as to be almost inaccurate) For the soil to release the mineral (chemists would kill me here) there has to be a certain range of acidity in the soil...so the chemical reactions can take place. So when you see that a plant needs a certain pH range, that's almost ALWAYS why. At a pH of 6, we usually need to add a little lime (basic) to bring the pH up a bit where I live. You've got it pretty high. don't know exactly what components added up to that, but getting it down to 6.5 MIGHT be useful to you, depending on what you want to grow. It's an easy search. Just google what plant you are growing, and ask the question..."Best pH for squash".... You'll get an answer. If you search for all the things you want to grow, and make a list, you'll know how close you are. One of the EASY ways to correct a soil pH that is slightly high, is to add some acid in the form of nitrogen. If you see "miracid" for instance (that's miracle grow's acidifying fertilizer) you will see that it's something like 30-10-10. Those numbers, IN ORDER are ALWAYS Nitrogen, Phorphorus, and Potassium (N, P, K) So you will see that Miracid, an acidifying fertilizer, is MOSTLY nitrogen. Certain nutrients are not available to the plant (I'm not even going to approach the chemistry of this) unless there is enough acid in the soil. EXAMPLE: Chlorosis (Iron deficiency in plants) is one of those issues, and is very common in ornamentals. Less common in veggie gardens unless the grower is using a lot of undecomposed mulch on the garden. (Decomposition of mulch requires a lot of nitrogen, so it sucks the nitrogen out of the root zone, and there's not enough for the plants....sometimes. ) With Chlorosis, the IRON is not available to the plant unless the soil has enough available nitrogen (and hydrogen, but forget about that) ("Not available" means it can't get released fro the soil so the plant can take it up, OR the plant itself can't grab onto it because of how the plant is chemically constructed, and what ions are hanging out on the tiniest roots) Okay have I thoroughly confused you? Basically if I see an acidic soil, I think, "Okay, plenty of N availability." If I see a basic soil, I think, "what's the nitrogen analysis in the soil test? is there enough?" I'm sort of surprised that you didn't get one. You might ask your extension agent about that. I'm interested in why that was not included, as OUR veggie garden analysis always includes basic NPK spectrum, and does NOT include as many trace elements as you have in yours. Different strokes for different labs, maybe. But Nitrogen is a very basic--and perhaps the most commonly amended--soil nutrient. Let me just say...I LOVE soil scienc0e--it was one of my favorite parts of school. But I am NOT a chemist. Any decent chemist would smoke most of what I am saying with his/her understanding of how it works, if they'd had a soils class. (How soil reacts to chemistry is a whole different thing, and how plants take up those elements is a whole different thing.) I know just enough to squint my eyes at the numbers and maybe make corrections. View Quote One point you made above really caught my attention, chlorosis. It has been a very wet May here, so the new raised beds are not yet in place. Our plan was to install them, then add weed cloth to the walkways and cover it with fresh bark mulch from a local sawmill. The bed frames will be dug down below ground level a few inches to level them, but not enough to form any real barrier to the soil along side. The soil within will be double dug. Do you think the surrounding mulch will cause chlorosis within the beds? I'll send you a PM with a link to the full results. There are a lot of recommendations within them, but the representative I spoke with essentially told me to ignore all of it. Her only concerns were for potatoes and blueberries. She recommended adjusting the ph down for potatoes. For blueberries she advised that we establish a remote dedicated bed, then spend the next two years getting the soil chemistry right, then plant in year three. Essentially she told me that we could only expect to reduce ph by about .5/year. |
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Thank you for the explanation. I did some physics and engineering in college, but thankfully no chemistry . One point you made above really caught my attention, chlorosis. It has been a very wet May here, so the new raised beds are not yet in place. Our plan was to install them, then add weed cloth to the walkways and cover it with fresh bark mulch from a local sawmill. The bed frames will be dug down below ground level a few inches to level them, but not enough to form any real barrier to the soil along side. The soil within will be double dug. Do you think the surrounding mulch will cause chlorosis within the beds? I'll send you a PM with a link to the full results. There are a lot of recommendations within them, but the representative I spoke with essentially told me to ignore all of it. Her only concerns were for potatoes and blueberries. She recommended adjusting the ph down for potatoes. For blueberries she advised that we establish a remote dedicated bed, then spend the next two years getting the soil chemistry right, then plant in year three. Essentially she told me that we could only expect to reduce ph by about .5/year. View Quote I agree on the blueberries. They need their own planet. However, her focus on only that and potatoes? It's okay. She's obviously got her stuff together and is helping. Good. Give me a bit to look at your results. I'm running hard this weekend, and will focus on them as soon as possible. In the meantime, carry on as planned. You can always amend. |
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No on the pathways. Do whatever you want with those. If the roots are not extending into them, don't worry about it. Mulch at will. I agree on the blueberries. They need their own planet. However, her focus on only that and potatoes? It's okay. She's obviously got her stuff together and is helping. Good. Give me a bit to look at your results. I'm running hard this weekend, and will focus on them as soon as possible. In the meantime, carry on as planned. You can always amend. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Thank you for the explanation. I did some physics and engineering in college, but thankfully no chemistry . One point you made above really caught my attention, chlorosis. It has been a very wet May here, so the new raised beds are not yet in place. Our plan was to install them, then add weed cloth to the walkways and cover it with fresh bark mulch from a local sawmill. The bed frames will be dug down below ground level a few inches to level them, but not enough to form any real barrier to the soil along side. The soil within will be double dug. Do you think the surrounding mulch will cause chlorosis within the beds? I'll send you a PM with a link to the full results. There are a lot of recommendations within them, but the representative I spoke with essentially told me to ignore all of it. Her only concerns were for potatoes and blueberries. She recommended adjusting the ph down for potatoes. For blueberries she advised that we establish a remote dedicated bed, then spend the next two years getting the soil chemistry right, then plant in year three. Essentially she told me that we could only expect to reduce ph by about .5/year. I agree on the blueberries. They need their own planet. However, her focus on only that and potatoes? It's okay. She's obviously got her stuff together and is helping. Good. Give me a bit to look at your results. I'm running hard this weekend, and will focus on them as soon as possible. In the meantime, carry on as planned. You can always amend. |
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