Sometime early December we are planning on buying a new Kubota BX25D. Since this is my first tractor purchase I am looking for any tips in dealing with the dealer.


Do I need to keep both hands on my wallet like when purchasing a new car? Sorry but I have a dislike for car dealers.


Will it be to my advantage, price wise, if I am paying cash vs financing? I know they are offering 0% and 60 months. I could take my cash and stick it in savings to draw interest while I make payments.


We have a little over 5 acres which is somewhat cleared with oaks, elms, and pines lining the property. A few trees scattered in the property.


The so called yard appears to have never been raked. Layers of leaves have matted and are choking any grass that attempts to grow. Also there are two unmanaged Wisteria bushes that have runners that are taking over the yard.  We also have a long gravel and dirt driveway that needs lots of work. Almost 4wd when it rains. Dealer has recommended a landscape rake and a box blade to take care of yard and driveway. Backhoe will come in handy eliminating the Wisteria bushes and clearing the leaves that clog the wet weather creek running across the front of the property. Any recommendations?


Also looking at adding a Ratchet Rake to the FEL to help clear some scrub brush. Going with the 60" MMM to make maneuvering easier. Wife wants one of those towed lawn vacuums, figure I will add that later if needed.


I am a complete noob when it comes to tractors and implements so any advice or recommendation will be appreciated.

Tractor people are a tad better then used car salesmen, so shop around. Make sure the tractor is "big" enough for whatever you want to do so it's not stressed all the time. Get the add - on's you need now as part of a deal and the ones you might need make a deal now to go back later to get them as you need them.

this is a stream of consciousness, not so much a buying guide...  

0.  ARFCOM'er JPL is a Kubota dealer and can give you some additional insight.
1.  the BX series is a dependable, well debugged tractor.  tons of rental places rent them, for a reason: they work.
2.  ALL sub-compact tractors are "light" compared to an ag tractor and you will run out of traction before you run out of engine power.  
3.  ALL sub-compact tractors have limited ground clearance; compare the BX's 8.something inches to the B's 12.something inches.  
4. if you are skidding logs out of woods or plowing muddy land, opt for more ground clearance.
5. more tractor weight = more traction = more damage to turfgrass when you cut.
6. more aggressive tread = more traction = more damage to turfgrass when you cut.
7.  the BX is very easy to operate, as are pretty much all hydrostatic tractors.  one pedal makes you go forward and backward.  i taught my wife to drive it in 30 seconds.
8.  ALL tractors equipped with a FEL (front end loader) can end up on their side in 5 seconds if you do stupid things.  keep the ROPS (rollbar) up and you seatbelt on.
9. in my mind with 5 acres i would be looking at a B series over a BX.  i have 2 acres with my BX and it's just the right size.  
10. Kubota parts are everywhere, you can order online from Messicks etc and have whatever you need in 24 hours.
11. my BX is a 2010 w/450 hours, i have never had it back to the dealer, and other than changing the oil/filters etc never had any repair work.
12. get a "50 hour kit" right when you buy the tractor, it will include the oil filter, air filter, two fuel filters, and the transmission filter.
13.  read tractorbynet (TBN) and orangetractortalk (OTT) for a few nights.
14. rip that wisteria out, and burn it, that stuff is the devil.  
15. you will need a 20' length of pull chain (grade 70 transport type) for general use.
16. build a carry-all.  it's super handy.
17. THINK VERY HARD about the backhoe.  it's REALLY useful when you need it.  but mowing with it on is a pain (and it's heavy, so you rut the wet grass), and although removing it is quite simple, you still need to attach the TPH (three point hitch) arms to hang ANY implement off the back.  for my purposes it was (and still is) a lot cheaper to rent a mini-ex for a day when i have a bunch of projects queued.  the local rental place will drop off a mini-ex at the end of the driveway at 8am, leave it for the day, and pick it up again at 5pm, for $350.  compare that to the cost of the backhoe option; divide it by the number of times you will make heavy use of it.  moreover, a mini-ex digs like crazy compared to the BX's backhoe; weight, power, reach, visibility, flexibility, arc, etc are all better.  if you are trenching a mini-ex is SOOO much faster it's not even a contest.  none of the gymnastics of picking up the stabilizers, turning the seat around, picking up the FEL, driving forward 8 feet, putting the FEL down, turning the seat around, putting down the stabilizers, and then getting back to work.  in a mini-ex you push/pull on two handles in front of you and the entire operation moves 8 feet backwards in seconds.  
18. the PTO (power take off) on any tractor can rip your arm off and/or kill you in a blink of an eye.  the PTO needs a healthy amount of respect, the same you afford to a large miter saw.  keep the guards in place, and don't let pets or children in the vicinity.
19.  in the beginning you think that the FEL is the most expensive wheelbarrow ever; and then you find out there are 87,000 things you can do with it that make your life a lot easier.
20.  make sure you pull from BELOW the rear axle.

see also
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_19/669571__ARCHIVED_THREAD____For_my_first_post__A_question_about_Utility_Tractors.html&page=1#i11445366

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/index.php

ar-jedi

Seconded on going big. I was looking at a B series, comparable Mahindra etc all in the 25-30hp range.

I bought a New Holland Workmaster 40. Significantly more size, weight and capability. I dodged a bullet on going smaller. For reference, 12 acres, mostly cleared, about 6 of bushhogging, 1000' of gravel drive and a decent garden plot for next year.

The 60 month financing is a good deal. We get 4 years same as cash when we buy our orchard tractors, we only make one payment a year which is nice.  See if they will also roll the implenets you want into the financing. We buy sprayers with the tractors most of the time and our dealer finances the sprayer same as the tractor 0% for 4 years. Might as well use kubotas money for 5 years if they will let you.

Are you the guy who takes the Brochure pix.  

Jedi nailed it for the most part.

I would say you need a minimum of a B series. I've got a 25D with BH and a few other odds and ends. When I lived on an acre and a half and it was great, I just moved to 5 acres with lots of stumps and started building a small log cabin playhouse and I am way over working the tractor. Only thing it absolutely can't do is lift some of the larger logs to the higher spots. I have about 750-100 stumps from where the previous owner logged the property and it takes me about 45 minutes a stump.  Also like Jedi said the BX is really bad on rough terrain (front wheels are very similar size to most riding lawn mowers).

Anyway, I'm shopping to go bigger right now. Not because the 25D can't do it, just I don't have the rest of my life to clear my property and get a good garden in next year.

My BX is fairly low hours...not sure if my wife and daughter will let me sell it

man, look at the sag at the back, that dog must weight a lot!!!

ar-jedi

Something to keep in mind the whole i pay everything in cash for large purchases is a little silly.

Dealers make money on interest and they get the money upfront regardless, and if you finance they often get the interest upfront as well(the negotiated amount).

So many times if you finance inhouse with them you will get the best deal.

rent a mid-size mini-ex for a week and you are done.

ar-jedi

What kind of ARfcom'er are you

Rent a mid size excavator for a day and you'll be done.

a couple points;  

yep the backhoe attachments are very expensive.  I would also suggest skipping it unless you know you will use it often.  Rental is a logical option, the B series takes a $7k backhoe.  That's a lot of god damned rental time.   I don't know the BX series backhoe price.

If you get bigger than the bx sized machine I would consider skipping the mmm and just getting a riding lawnmower or zero turn.   I did not but it was a calculation on available machine storage and a limitation on what mowers would actually climb my steep hill safely (not a zero turn much as I wanted to go that route)  On the B series my mower deck was about the same as a mid grade lawn tractor.   Also saves you tractor engine hours on your bigger machine.  The bigger heavier machine will also tear the lawn more if you're not careful.  

don't think of your little machine as a bull dozer because it isn't, think of it as a lazy man's shovel.  (I'm guilty on all counts there)  


I upsized my machine not for the ground work I expected but for the snow removal on 1/10 mile of hilled gravel driveway.   With the heavy late snowfall of the last two winters here I am damned glad I did.

On a smaller machine I think you're likely wasting your time with a box blade, my B3200 struggles with a full box on hills.  Go with a York rake style or back blade if you have a smaller machine.  That way you won't be stalled trying to drag X cubic yards of gravel.

Thank you for all the information and pics. Looks like y'all work your tractors harder than I plan on having to.

I have considered used implements, but most I find locally are much bigger than I can use and cost almost as much as new.


Tires?? What type do I want. I realize that ag tires are bad news for grass lawns. Turf tires lack traction. What about the industrial bar tires? Most of the tractors I have seen at local dealer have either ag tires or industrial tires on them. I hear about filling tires, why and what with?


I have small cactus plants scattered around the property. The needles are enough to puncture a bicycle tire. Do I need to worry about tractor tires?


I want the cactus gone, but don't know about the legalities yet on removing them.


Wife and I are talking about using some of the land for a vegetable garden. To make things easier on me that means tilling twice a year.


The property is not fenced and I am having trouble with people, trespassers dumping their brush and odd trash on the back portion of our land. This means I need to consider fencing it all in, a little at a time. We want to fence it in with no climb horse fence. Also plenty of shrubs and a few fruit trees to plant. To consider a post hole digger with the BX25D I understand I have to have a shorter auger, 30 inch max. I have looked at Landpride and they have a couple that will work with sub compact tractors.


I have a a lot of work ahead of me here getting the place cleaned up and into some kind of normalcy.


My want list so for now:


BX25D with FEL and backhoe. Do I want the quick hitch for the bucket? If I need forks ones that fit on the bucket would suffice. Also fork on the rear would be of more use for me.

3 point cat 1 hitch Again do I want a quick hitch?

60 inch MMM

60 inch landscape rake with guide wheels

48-60 inch box blade

Counter balance box Decided one was best after seeing AR-jedi use of one.

48 inch tiller

Post hole digger

Ratchet Rake


Will be making a few phone calls this coming week so I have better info to compare to my local dealers.

 

if you get a smaller box blade it will help.  I bought a 5' box blade.  I was offered the free use of a 6' box blade but I think that would have choked my machine on the grade.  Box blades need a certain amount of weight to work well.  A light box blade doesn't dig well, there is no down pressure on your rear arms.  You adjust the top link for how aggressive the cut is.  Without weight it just skids along instead of cuts.   It takes some practice to set up your box blade to do what you want.  I'm still no expert with mine but it is useful.  I can regrade my storm washouts in the hill part of the driveway, I can even set up for road camber by adusting the adjustable lower link, it also works for snow with limitations (the box is a detriment there not an asset but makes a great counterweight no matter what),   A back blade is a more simple tool to understand.


ETA- hell with some practice you can even do a halfway decent job grading stone with the FEL and float mode, with the blade at 90 to the road and going in reverse.   You just lack the ability to angle the blade in the other two axis.

http://www.ratchetrake.com/index.shtml


Seems to be a lot of love for it on TBN

Certainly interesting!

hes_right_you_know.jpg  

ar-jedi

you don't need a ballast box if (a) you have the backhoe attached or (b) if you have a heavy implement like the box blade attached.

summary: you don't need a ballast box.

ar-jedi

it will definitely go faster but my guess is that the overall math doesn't work.

e.g.
pulling up 96 stumps in 8 hours would be 12 stumps an hour, or one every 5 minutes for 8 hours straight.  that's hauling A.  every tenth stump is going to be a pain in the ass.  

the thing is, though, that a large excavator is disproportionally more expensive to rent.  it has to be delivered with a full up dump truck, not a F450 mason body.  and, there are tons more places that rent mini-ex's so there is more competition on price.  etc etc

ar-jedi

in some cases, tractor tires are partially filled with liquid, usually beet juice or calcium chloride solution.  the liquid substantially increases weight at the rear of the tractor, augmenting traction and/or counterbalancing the FEL load.

ar-jedi

Oh ok I thought it was some kind of slime that prevented flats. I had always heard that stuff was bad for tires.

 

I use a mixture of methanol and water.  I suppose over time it causes some issues, but I havent seen it on tractors I personally put it in over 20 yrs ago.

Regarding stop leak materials, regular "slime" formulae don't work in fluid loaded tires but Multiseal sells a product called Hydro Seal for filled tires (replaces about 10% of the fill volume) if you want to have a leak preventative on board...

Nick

As mentioned tractor by net and old threads here are something to read and take notes on.



For price I would talk to the bank for a roundabout loan they would do and then you have a comparison when talking to the dealer.



And I would call dealers within about 300 miles for prices just cause I like to get prices and see what dealers think a used one might be worth and get to know the lay of the land so to speak.  Craigslist search as well but I don't really trust craigslist all the time, or most of the time.



As already mentioned rolling the implements in if you get a deal is worth it.  



I am not sure a lot of stuff is moving so I am kind of watching a few large purchases because the dealers might decide they need to move them.



I also watch locally for folks who financed something and need out from under it due to changing family stuff, obamacare and job loss are putting a hurting on stuff everywhere from what I am reading.



You have to decide on the tires and stuff but overall my opinion on most places with yards is 85% could be done with ag tires cause it is the back yard and not a big deal.  Mow right around the house with some little self propelled mower you catch on sale or whatever and these are usually needed for some trimming stuff as well.



The house I rent now the landlord would not care about ag tires on the whole place if I was careful and fixed the major ruts I might make learning the best route, yard already is rutted somewhat.  I would still use a little mower for the spot right around the house and from house to driveway.



Price some local stuff as mentioned with rentals.  They vary greatly.



And some people would rather mess with stumps for a few hours a day every day than to take a week to get it all done.



On these small tractors I also agree you might not do so well looking for used stuff, the best used prices tend to come when you have a tractor that can run a wide range of stuff and you are not being picky.



I consider these little tractors to be like a swiss army knife, they can have the tools and do the job but you are dealing with something trying to do everything.



If you don't mind tire chains the less aggressive tires and a set of chains, and I mean good heavy duty chains for tractor use, might work but I know I would not want to run chains all the time and I might be lazy about chaining up now and then.

I did some more research and found out there is about $1600 in instant rebates for the tractor, an "Easy Over Mower Deck", and one qualifying implement.

Also if I choose LandPride implements they can be included in the $0 Down, 0% Interest, and 60 Months. I know I will probably be paying a premium for the LandPride name.


I don't think I will be filling the tires for weight. About the only time I foresee a lack of weight a problem would be the first time I till up the garden, or whipping the driveway back in shape.


I don't plan dragging tress out of the woods or digging up stumps. Any trees that are fallen can be bucked up where they fall and then hauled out. Any stumps would be pines as I am keeping as many hardwood tress as possible. If a stump gives me too much trouble there is always Tannerite. LOL

Around here 40 HP seems to be the sweet spot.  Big enough to work, small enough to maneuver.  Between the neighbors we have a backhoe, post hole digger, bush hog, 4 front end loaders.  Good neighbors are a gift from God.

In my opinion, Land Pride makes some of the best implements.  King cutter.....well.....not as much.  I do have a King Cutter bushog and it's been fine.  But, Land Pride stuff is a lot better made.

The primary purpose of filling the rear tires is to keep the rear tires on the ground with a heavy weight in the FEL; traction is also improved but that's secondary in my opinion.  If you're getting a tractor without a FEL (what would be the point?), then it doesn't matter.  Without weight on the rear, either by filling the rear tires or a ballast weight (or both), you have a very good chance of overturning with a heavy weight in the FEL because the front axle pivots and there's nothing stopping you from going over, except weight in the rear.  We had one member that just did it with his tractor and it didn't take much at all for it to go over.

Filling tires is pretty easy and cheap, depending on where you live.  In SC TN, I used 6 gallons of RV antifreeze, a simple fill device from Tractor Supply, a small pump and a bucket to fill my rear tires.  It only gets expensive the further north you go (requiring more antifreeze (or window washer fluid) or decide to get Rimguard (beet juice).

I not only filled my tractor rear tires, but also added wheel weights (500 lbs) and almost always have a +1000 lb box blade on the 3ph.  The last thing I want is to experience a roll over in my tractor.

Either way, it's well worth it to reduce the chances of a roll over.  I highly recommend you reconsider.

Good luck.

ETA some further reading material:

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/2009/01/6-reasons-to-liquid-ballast-your-kubotas-tires/

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/2009/01/how-to-ballast-your-kubotas-tires/

http://www.dtnprogressivefarmer.com/dtnag/view/ag/printablePage.do?ID=BLOG_PRINTABLE_PAGE&bypassCache=true&pageLayout=v4&blogHandle=agequipment&blogEntryId=8a82c0bc3c43f322013c44c1a5ce0021&articleTitle=Tire+Ballast%3A+Liquid+Weight+vs.+Iron+Weights&editio

http://www.tractor.com/features/tractor-ballasting-tips-and-options-1618.html

I have a 2015 BX25D and I love it. For my 5 acre spread, it's perfect.

While I had a lot of ideas of how I could use it when I got it, I've learned it's the 1,001 things I didn't think of where it really shines.

Here's what I've done with it in the last month:

1. Dug 250 feet of trench with the backhoe and back-filled using the FEL.
2. Dug up six small-to-medium stumps  (12-16" trunks).
3. Used the FEL and chain-on pallet forks to move a pallet of landscape timbers (20 timbers at a time).
4. Rough cut a 1.5ac pasture with a brush hog off the PTO/3PH.
5. Drove in t-posts with the FEL.
6. Ripped out saplings in a fenceline with the backhoe and mechanical thumb.

I move it back and forth between the house and the ranch quite often and it's small enough to ride on a 16' lowboy and be pulled easily by a 1/2-ton pickup. 5 gallons of diesel lasts forever and maintenance is super easy. I've done all the service on it myself so far using info from the 'Net.

My recommendation is buy the BX25 and the MMM and wait a while for the rest of the attachments unless you just have a pressing need for the post hole digger right now. While some my poo-poo the clamp-on/chain-on bucket forks, I find them really really useful (and the dealer included them for $0 because I'm a nice guy and people like me) but I am mindful of how I use them to keep from bending the bucket or lifting too much.

I shopped around for mine and negotiated over the phone, then drove two hours to pick it up. I did all this because the A-HOLE Kubota dealer that is no more than 5 miles from my house wanted MSRP plus a little bit more, and then acted like I kicked their dog and insulted their Mother when I had the audacity to think their price was too high.

You really need to fill those rear tires, my man.

That sounds like the local John Deere dealer.  The owner will throw you out of the store if you say you don't like his MSRP price and want to negotiate.   Fortunately 20 miles away is a nice little dealer that is glad to take all those customers.  I went orange though.  Sometimes I regret it but not too often.

I have looked at a bunch of the smaller tractors. Frankly I do not like a bunch of the kubotas because of how the steering links are the lowest point in the front and the first thing a rock or stump would hit if the bucket is up.