ITT we will ask clueless questions on raising bovine. (well I will, others will ask intelligent questions)

For my needs, assume single cow/ steer for beef purchased as newborn from auction barn or local breeder/ farmer.
I hope others will preface their questions with their particular needs.

Initial layout of facilities;

Water; Do young calves prefer to have a trough that is raised somewhat?
           When on bottle will they even take to a water trough?

Shelter; Any minimum size for a 3 sided shelter per cow?
            Do you need to extend siding below grade for any reason if on dirt?
            Will they handle living on concrete in shelter with adequate straw bedding?
            Will they crap where they sleep if not confined to stall?
            Is confining to a horse stall adequate for first month or 2 if you just muck it out? Advantage/ disadvantage?
            Any advantage to having fans in a stall/ shelter in south?
            How often to expect to replace bedding material if not wet from rain etc?

Food; Is it advisable to feed colostrum supplement immediately even it you are assured it has had it? Additional feedings bad?
         What is standard length of time on a bottle before they go to full time pasture/ supplied grains/ silage?
         How early can you start to introduce supplemental grains etc that aren't just ignored and wasted?

Handling; Do you NEED a cattle chute initially? For de-nutting, checking health, giving injections?
               How do you stake out/ picket a cow so you don't need fencing initially? is it discouraged for any reason?

With other animals; Are there any other farm animals cattle should not be in contact with for food/ water/ shelter. (not in immediate contact with in shelter or not grazed on same pasture with or after)

What have I missed?

Next will be basic equipment/ supplies needed questions.

Thanks in advance for your help.
         

Tag to add my own ignorant questions later!

IN

I can't answer any questions, I'm new at this myself.

As far as shelter goes, I think all they need (once past weening) is some shade and a spot to get out of the elements if they wish. My horse stands in the rain and rolls around in snow,  but hides from from the sun.

Doing research ahead of time is always good. What works in one part of the country might not work so well in other parts.

One of the first decisions you'll make is what kind to get. Most breeds are better suited as either beef or dairy but some breeds are touted to be both. A dual-purpose animal is probably OK but probably won't ever excel for either purpose. Just because they don't excel doesn't mean they won't do just fine for your particular situation. Keep in mind that a typical dairy calf will not efficiently produce top USDA quality or yield grades of meat.

In my part of the country, many farmers used to keep a milk cow to provide milk for the kitchen. They would usually keep the calves penned up, away from the cow. In the morning, they would milk the cow by hand into a bucket. Once they had milked out the quantity needed for the house, they would turn the calves in with the cow to suckle out the remains. They would usually turn the cow out to pasture afterwards.  They'd put the calves back on her in the evening without milking any out. A good milk cow would have enough milk to raise two calves and an excellent cow could raise four. If they wanted to raise more than four, they'd bucket or bottle feed any number of calves depending upon how much milk was available.

Farmers liked to keep a Jersey cow for this as they are small and easy to handle (gentle), they forage pasture well, and they produce a richer milk. A family's Jersey cow might only produce a gallon of milk each day during the winter but up to four-five gallons a day in the spring. Compare that to a Holstein that will probably give at least five gallons of milk each day. If you are hand milking a dairy cow it doesn't take very long to squirt out a gallon or two at a time but past that you are going to have arms like Popeye.

What breed of calf are you wanting to buy?  Are you specifically looking for bottle calves or have you considered buying a weaned steer?  

If you are buying bottle calves at the auction it is a crap shoot. I'm assuming you will be getting dairy calves unless you want to pay through the nose with current beef prices.  The only time I see a beef bottle calf around here is when the momma dies and the owner doesn't want to mess with it so he puts it on craigslist for $500-$600.  Jersey make better beef than Holstein according to most people.  Jerseys will take longer to finish especially on grass.  I would allow 20-24 months for a Jersey steer before he is ready for slaughter.  

If you buy a bottle heifer that is a beef breed I wouldn't count on her being able to be bred.  She is probably a free martin which is a twin that can't reproduce.

If you are wanting to raise them for beef I would buy a couple beef steers that are already weaned and give that a run first.  Less risk than with bottle calves and remember they always do better with more than one.  If you bought 500-700lb animals they could be ready to take their trip to freezer camp in as little as 3-4 months if you have good grass and really poured the grain to them.  

Grove

I'm a year or more out on starting, and am aware that cattle are stupid priced right now.

My situation is going to be different than most others. I don't want to be tied to any farm animal for more than 10 or 11 months a year before sending them to camp and I don't see myself eating 500 lbs of beef a year along with a small pig or 2. (I gather pigs MUST be in pairs or bad things can happen?)

A twin would actually work for me if I could get it cheaper than a steer.

This is going to be strictly hobby farming with benefits for me where I can skip out of town for a month or two to visit kids and family during summer months.

The breed is one of the upcoming questions in my 600 page outline of questions I'm going to ask.

I do appreciate having the general stuff covered for other folks though.

I had heard about the Jersey being a little more docile. Do they make decent steaks?

Had 30-60 mommas for 15 years, but told all the time by people with 2-3 that we don't know what we are doing :)
I will try to help, but take with a grain of salt.

As said breed will be an important decision.

I'll preface this post with something I always recommend in this forum:  use your Cooperative Ag Extension service for resources.  The local office usually has agents that are just dying to give you advice.  Plus, they know what works in your locale.  FL and TX conditions are pretty rough on cattle, you need a breed that performs well there.  Y'all have parasites I don't have here.  Here's a link for the FL offices:  Ag Extension

Additionally, any thing you build, process you start, method, etc. needs to be approached with these points in mind:

- Minimize my labor
- Prevent the animal from doing the only three things it wants to do:  1) Not do what you want it to do, 2) Tear up stuff and crap on it, and 3) Die

I'll touch on your questions:

- Baby calves don't drink much water if they're nursing.  They will drink it, but mostly just loaf around it.  Use a trough that is high enough to keep them from stepping into it, they don't care what level it is.

- Shelter.  Don't build a fancy thing, they will just tear it up.  For some small calves, I would do a 10 x 12 shed roof on skids.  They won't get on concrete, you'll just have a big mudhole all around the shelter.  They will crap where they sleep, where they eat, in their water, everywhere.  I wouldn't confine to a stall, too much crud they can catch.  Really, they don't need any shelter, except some shade, and somewhere to get out of a cold wind.  You'll go to all the trouble of building something, and then get mad because they never use it.

- Food.  By the time you are buying a bottle calf, it's guts won't absorb the antibiotics in colostrum.  If it didn't get on mama in the first 12 hours after birth, it won't matter after that.  And it will probably get scours and die.  I'd just use some regular milk replacer and scour-ease.  Calves don't have a developed rumen until around 6 months.  I wouldn't take the milk away until then.  They will eat grain, though, if it tastes good.

- Handling.  For confinement, I would always have a non-electric perimeter fence.  And I would have woven-wire fence for baby calves.  You don't want the liability of your animals getting out and somebody hitting them and suing you.  Use electric to cross-fence.  To doctor baby calves, you can get by with a halter and rope tied to a post, but they will kick you unless you get them on the ground and lay on them.  Larger animals, you just about need to have a working chute with either a headgate or squeeze chute on the end.  This is more for your safety as you doctor them.  A vet on call is not going to mess with a 800-pounder in a stall.

You just about have to buy a 400 - 500 lbs if you're wanting to turn it in 10 months.  As far as dairy breeds to eat, the steaks will be pretty tough.  Most dairy are where your store-bought hamburger comes from.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPR108kwNo4[/youtube]


Sorry, not a team.  Guess you'll have to cut/paste.  The horror

Would love to hear more about everything cattle as well as I would love to do this in the future.

I am no where near there yet but in the next ten years will have 70 acres to play with and would love to start farming or cattle.

I have some experience but have tons of questions like how to turn it into a business or if it's even an option to do cattle only without farming.

I would love to be a self employed cattle rancher. Teach me wise ones!

Here is my post a few years ago when I first bought my own.  Beef Cattle

Grove

Grove - nice write up.

Hopefully I'm not jacking this thread, if so OP go ahead and tell me to keep quiet and I will.

I seriously want to raise cattle and be self employed doing it in the future but everyone is telling me they lose money or barely break even. Is this true? Is there no way possible to do this and make money without being a major farm as well?

I'm sick of working for the man, I want to do something with the land. Is this not even possible anymore?

You do not want bottle calves  

You do not need a shelter for cattle unless you are in colder climates.
You do need a way to handle cattle, some type of small pen to sort and work and a squeeze chute is optimal so you do not hurt yourself or the cattle.  Head gate will work but it has limitations.

Cattle will drink from any level of water source.


Horsed penned up need exercise daily or a small pasture to move around in.  They need clean water available 24/7.


In the heat, some shade is needed, trees or some type of top cover will help.


Steer away from buying calves to bottle feed, it's a pain.


They crap everywhere...

Tag for future reference as well!

You need to ask somebody in Iowa.  Farm whatever makes the most profit.  Cattle farms are usually in places that are rough, where there's no other choice.  Usually where the timber has been harvested.  Places where row-cropping is impossible; places where about the only thing you can grow is grass.

I see stock south of Des Moines, because of the hilliness, then as you go north it's all row-crop.  Doesn't make sense to run cattle on fields you would get more profit in corn.

If you have a place better suited for stock, you can make a living on an economy of scale.  In the case of cow-calf operation, at least 100 mama cows.   Stocker (backgrounding) operations should go higher.  You can figure (but not count on) a before-tax profit of $100/calf in a cow-calf op, probably $1 / pound gained on stockers.  This is if you're efficient.

What your land will carry varies.  In the rough-ass Ozark mtns it's 3 acres / pair tops.  Maybe 2 acres / stocker.  You may be able to get that ratio down, I don't know.

You can crop and ranch at the same time, but they need to dovetail.  For example, your corn needs to produce winter silage to feed your stock.  In AR, it's chickens and cows.  Chicken litter fertilizes the hay fields.  Which feeds in winter.  The more 'diverse' your farm is, the more resistant you are to getting slammed from things you can't control.

Then, when you think you've got it figured out, a drought or flood kicks your ass.  It's all part of the experience!

P.S.  Don't take gov't $$ via programs.  Do it all yourself.  However, take all the advice the Extension has to offer.  Farming isn't rocket science.  I know this because I have an undergrad in rocket science.

If anybody cares, I will hold forth on the decision of putting up your own hay versus purchasing it.  It's time for bed now.  Happy Independence Day, y'all.  May we have ever more Independence.

The farm I will be inheriting is too hilly, grassy, timber for row crop that is why I am thinking cattle. But that's my other problem. No one in my family farms and that ground isn't farmable so I can't really be diverse, that's why I ask if cattle would even be an option for me. This land doesn't have a house on it just timber and some hay ground and electric and a pond and a creek.

If you want to look into a profitable farming enterprise, google Joel Salatin and start reading his books.

I had to treat pinkeye in a calf this weekend, and sort it off before all the rest got it, too.

As a preventative, I pre-treated all the other calves with LA-300 (subcutaneous in the neck) and a wound spray in the eyes (approved use).  Now, there's another calf with an eye problem.  It doesn't have the characteristics of pinkeye (tearing, keeping eye closed) but face below the eye is swollen.  Eyeball is fine.  Reaction to antibiotic / spray?  Kicked?  Anyone else had this?

There's not much else I (nor a vet) can do since I already did it.  Only other thing is terramycin topical and eyepatch like I did the first one.  Chasing pinkeye = whack a mole

I remember one year that we turned cows in to pasture on a field we didn't mow the fescue tops off when it headed for seed. We ended up with a bunch of watery-eyed cows after a couple of days and had to treat some. The stiff tops of the fescue straws were poking/scratching eyes as the cattle fed on the lower green leaves of grass.

It seems like one of them had symptoms as you describe. The vet said a short piece of straw broke off and was trapped under the lower eyelid. Not stuck in the eyeball, just trapped between the lower lid and eyeball where it was a constant irritation.

Eyes cleared up once we pulled them off that pasture until we got the tops mowed off.

You're right about the stems.  Maybe it's not a good management decision, but I try to take advantage of the seed, and let the seed heads cure before mowing (K-31 is $50 / sack), so the fields get overseeded, but there's always spots I don't get.  And, with all the rain we've got this year, the stems are very dense and lots of flies.  Right now, I'm mowing like a wildman in front of the next field.

I hope it's simply dies down like you said, once they get in shorter grass.

I vaccinate mama's annually against pinkeye, but not nursing calves until weaning.  It's the calves that are having a hard time.

I raised two calves a long time ago, Bull and Heifer.  Had a corner of a barn I kept them in until they kept trying to get out. I put them in a outside pen with three sided shed and running water.
Hand feeding them from babies until they went into the pasture made them like pets. I could walk out and call them and feed them pieces of apples.  My neighbor a ninety year old guy with about a hundred head couldnt believe they would call up that easy. I sold them at about a year and a half old and moved.
Its a lot of work when they are babies. I ended up buying mine off my neighbor when the mothers wouldnt give the calves milk and left them laying in the field.
All I had was a bottle and the powdered milk that I bought in fifty pound bags from the supply store.  I forget when and how I changed them over to sweet feed and hay.  It was winter when I gave them hay, they just ate grass in the field and the sweet feed was a supplement.
Cows are dumb and smart at the same time haha. Cattle guys will know what I mean.
Its a hell of a lot easier when you have them trained to come to you for food so when they get out you dont spend a day chasing them. I did that for my neighbors.
If a cow can get its head through a hole it was force its whole body through the opening.

I forgot to mention how strange it was to see a whole herd of Jerseys with softball sized purple eyes! (The spray looked like bright purple spray paint).  I wish I had pictures- they'd have made GREAT zombie cow posters!

I guess I need to find a herd of sore-eyed Jerseys and make a movie of them coming out of the mist with those purple eyes...