Wanted to ask about this. At some point in the future I'll be able to get a nice tract of land to build a house on and have been looking at various ways to secure a reliable food source in case of SHTF or what have you.

One of the things that interests me the most is tilapia production. It seems that the capital costs are reasonably low compared to some animals (Fencing, shelters, ect vs a large pond, aerators and the like). High density tilapia production is raising well over a million pounds of fish per acre pond. I wouldn't need to go anywhere close to this number, but it sure makes a great case for just how dense production can be.

One thing I can't find good information on is food. Most of the commercial producers use oxygen for aeration plus commercial fish pellets for food. One thing I'd like to be able to do would be able to produce at least part of the foodstock for the fish. The only thing I can find that is somewhat easy to produce is duckweed (Which also helps cut down on nitrogen content produced by the tilapia). However i'm having a hard time finding information on duckweed production or alternative food sources for tilapia.

Any thoughts/ideas on this?

Ask Mike Rowe, the "Dirty Jobs" dude,



he did a show on this very topic.

...

I'm reading through, however i guess i don't understand if it will scale well. I'm wanting something that's near a million gallons versus that thread which I think is 500 or so.

Wow.



thats a big fish tank. ANYTHING to do with a million gallons of water is serious bidness.



You need to talk to somebody that raises them commercially.



Something that size could turn into a $$$$ pit very quickly, done wrong.



Sounds intriguing tho, please keep us posted.





 

1 acre of land  = 200*200ft*20ft deep = 6 million gallons.

I was thinking about a natural pool before I realized that it had a name (Having a re-circulation pump filter water through a stone/gravel bed downhill into the pond) which would help with filtration and also could allow decent food production.

The commercial places all use concrete ponds and grow it at a rate of 1-2 gallons per fish and pipe in pure oxygen to prevent them from dying. I don't need anything close to that, since space for me isn't at a premium and there would be plenty of land to use. HOWEVER, i would want it to be mostly self sufficient and as low maintenance as possible.

Thus the questions.

Please remember that the EPA now controls (read 'owns') any body of water that will float a 12" dia. log.



There have been threads about the nightmares they have created.



Our fucking .gov has to STOP helping us.



Jus' Sayin'
 

I'm pretty sure that's state and body dependent. I know people who have 5 and 20ac pools and have no issues.

Additionally, out of the dozen threads I looked at in this forum talking about EPA fining people, it's been someone talking about hearing of someone, but it not actually happening to them. I actually have experience working with regulatory groups and the EPA as well. I'm not saying they're fun to deal with but there are certainly ways to do what I want without any sort of legal issues.

Join the Pond Boss forum. Browse their threads and then ask your question. It make take a few days, but you'll have experts answer your questions. I will add that while a 20 ft deep pond may be nice, it is not necessary for almost any type of fish and won't drastically increase the amount you can stock in it. Ponds are more so measured in surface size (1/2 acre) rather than volume (1 million gallons).

Some thoughts:

1) ***Disclaimer:  I've never personally grown Tilapia.***  Tilapia are a tropical fish.  This is critical to keep in mind.  They will grow best between 75 to 85F.  They reportedly stop growing at 70F.  And they die at 55F.  Tilapia is a generic name for a fairly large group of fish with dozens and dozens of species, so there may be some that survive at lower temperatures.  But this is a growing operation and you will need to keep the temperature in that grow range for the duration of the growth period.  If you were doing this in a greenhouse, then you could definitely keep the temperature high enough, but I doubt you could keep it that high in a pond, especially one in OH, especially with 20 feet of depth.  That kind of depth is great for a catfish operation where you want to overwinter the fish and the top of the water will freeze, something that is not necessary for Tilapia.

2) I really like the idea of a gravel filtration system as you allude to.  You could keep it shallow, say, 8 to 15 inches and have a pond liner at the bottom.  If you pump water from the pond into a large area of gravel, you can accomplish all the ammonia to nitrate conversion.  If you plant leafy green plants, especially water-loving ones such as watercress, you can use all of that to supplement feeding for the Tilapia.  Bear in mind that you will need a very large area of gravel but it's inexpensive and very doable.

3) Tilapia will eat just about anything, even poop from other fish.  You could definitely supplement with plants, but any commercial feed with between 28 to 32% will be perfect. Feed should be the easiest part of your operation.

4) Any permits you want to get should be relatively easy since Tilapia die in the winter months and there is no chance of escape into any adjacent waterways.  

5) I would start with a much smaller 'test' pond, say 10,000 to 20,000 gallons.  It will give you a feel for what you are up against.  While my system is trivial in size compared to what you are planning, I even constructed a 1/10th size system to test out before diving in with the larger system.  If these fish are for personal use, a pond that size (10 to 20K), with a properly-sized external gravel bed for filtration and plant growth, would probably be all you would need for fish supplementation unless you plan on selling them.

I'm sure I'll think of more stuff.




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My ultimate goal is to build a low maintenance food source for my family that would POTENTIALLY allow for some sales of fish should I ever have to do it. I've known many, many, many people who have had ponds here in Ohio that have not required re-stocking, were in balance in terms of nitrogen/ammonia production and produced thousands of pounds of fish each year for virtually nothing.

I've been doing alot of reading and realize that tilapia may not be the best choice in Ohio, however it seemed that they were overly easy to grow. The second choice would be hybrid bluegill. I've known a few people who have them and they seem overly prolific, however finding information on them seems to be a bit harder in terms of temperature tolerances, food requirements, oxygen, PH and such.

(I can't edit easily on my iPad)

Tilapia are definitely the easiest to grow and your information is correct on them.  The only issue is temperature.  If you were in southern TX, CA, FL, NM, etc, they would be the fish of choice.  

I think you have to decide if you want high stocking densities of fish or a natural ecosystem.  With high density production, you must have a way to deal with ammonia and nitrate waste, hence the gravel bed filtration, plants and pumps.  If you have a natural ecosystem, the waste is taken care of through the normal nitrogen cycle like all "wild" ponds, but the trade-off is substantially lower production.  I currently have 10 pounds of Channel catfish in 550 gallons of water.  In nature, that simply doesn't happen.  The ammonia levels could reach lethal levels within a week or two.

If you're going to build a pond that big, I think you are better off building a complete ecosystem with Bluegill, Bass, catfish, crawfish, Yellow Perch, Golden Shiners, etc.  Or, go with a much smaller pond and devise a large gravel area elevated a foot or so higher, and pump water into it from the pod.  Then grow catfish.  It would probably take 2 growing seasons but you'd get very nice-sized fish.


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Any problems with a large pond that has a quality filtration system? Would it ever be possible to have it clean enough to swim in (Would be a great side-benefit).

How are channel cat fed? I'm HOPING for a system where i could potentially cut feed levels (Meaning total inputs I would have to buy) in a emergency, and have it go the more natural route. So in good times I would be able to supplement feed, but in bad times produce my own feed.

I realize by going the big pond route, it's going to require some serious pumping power if I use a uphill gravel system. However my thinking is that if I do it right, it would also act as a oxygenation system as well. Or am I wrong in assuming that if I pump it uphill and have it filter that no significant air would be introduced, requiring a bubbler or similar setup?

Temperatures are of course a concern with being in Ohio. A 20ft deep pond would have SOME (but not significant) geothermal heating properties. I imagine it'd be more than enough to keep catfish/bluegill/ect alive, but likely not tilapia in most cases. GRANTED, I do believe if I added supplementary solar heating during the winter, it could potentially keep them alive. One idea I did have was breeding tilapia indoors in a more controlled environment till it got a little warmer here in Ohio, but we'd be looking at say the first part of April before the water temperature would be high enough to truly keep tilapia alive. Then you're looking at maybe April-Nov growing season, which is only 7-8 months. I am under the assumption that most fish need 9-12 months of lifespan to really put on enough weight to be worth something. Of course channel cat can get huge, and potentially have long-ish lifespans so with a large enough of a pond you would be ok.

My wife is from Costa Rica, so I've been there a bit.  People do a lot of Tilapia farming there now, and I've been to some of these farms.  I wouldn't consider buying from one that didn't have a good flow in, and a good flow out.

Are you set on tilapia or could you do channel catfish instead? They are very tasty and are quite easy to grow. Again, join the Pond Boss forum as well. You would be doing yourself a strong disservice if you don't.

1) There are two types of filtration with are talking about here:

A) Fish produce ammonia waste which diffuses into the surrounding water through their gills.  Fish cannot detoxify ammonia any other way.  There are bacteria that break ammonia down into nitrate.  The best way to accomplish this is to run the water through some type of media that is covered in these bacteria (Nitrosomona and Nitrobacter) so the bacteria can use the ammonia as fuel which they oxidize with oxygen from the air into nitrate.  To accomplish this, aquariums have sponges or small ceramic beads that act as the medium onto which the beneficial bacteria grow.  This is how it works in an aquarium or aquaponics system, or even a small koi pond where water is pumped up to the top of a rock and gravel waterfall.  

The generally accepted minimum media requirement to safely convert all the ammonia into nitrate is 25 gallons of media per 6 pounds of fish, and you should pump the entire volume of water through the media at least once per hour.  The numbers rely on normal feeding and temperatures probably around 70F.  There is of course flexibility in this in the sense that you can use less media but run the water through it faster.  The 6 pounds of fish is not the initial stocking amount but rather the maximum amount of fish.  You would stock them at a smaller size and have them grow to that maximum media to fish weight ratio.

If you were to construct a small pond (10 to 20K) and have a gravel field lined with pond liner, you could run the water from the pond through the gravel and accomplish all the filtration you need as long as you keep in mind the media to fish weight ratio and pump the water at a sufficient rate that you get complete conversion of ammonia to nitrate.  

B) While nitrate is far less toxic than ammonia, it does stress the fish at high concentrations.  I observe my Channel catfish feeding less or stop feeding completely when the nitrate levels get above 120 mg/L but they are likely affected by smaller amounts.

Hence, the need for plants to absorb the nitrate.  You would, of course, plant them directly in the gravel bed.  You have a lot of choices for that, but heavy nitrogen feeding plants is where you want to go with it.  You want a large enough gravel bed to support the growth of enough plants to absorb nitrate at a rate that will keep the level low in your pond.  If your nitrate levels are too high, put in more plants and gravel bed, or stock less fish.  The amount of nitrate is directly proportional to how much ammonia the fish are producing.

You can definitely try a set-up for a "natural swimming pool" as below and try adding fish to it:



2) Channel catfish will feed from the bottom or the top of the water.  Many people like floating fish feed because it gives them a much better idea of how much of the feed is being consumed.  It also allows them to get a "look" at their fish as they roll the surface to take the food.  You can see skin lesions easily this way.  I posted a link to a youtube video at the bottom.

I use sinking catfish feed in my aquaponics system because I can observe any uneaten food on the bottom and adjust feedings accordingly.  I can also net out any uneaten food if need be.

3) Oxygen requirements depend on how many fish you have in the pond and anything else that may be absorbing oxygen from the water including bacteria and algae.  I added a UV sterilizer to my system so it kills anything in the water.  So the fish and the bacteria in the gravel bed (I'm using expanded shale now) are the only ones using oxygen.  I have a lot of flow in my system though and get plenty of oxygen.

As long as there isn't a lot of uneaten food rotting away, and you can keep algae down (algae produce oxygen during the day but consume oxygen at night!) then oxygen levels shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't stock it with too many fish.  

Supplemental aeration will completely depend on the size and stocking density of the fish, as well as water temperature.  

4) Tilapia are tropical fish.  They really won't do well unless you can maintain high water temperatures.  What you could do is try with more easily kept fish such as Bluegill, catfish, etc., and if you can maintain good water temperatures, you could go with Tilapia.  Heating a million gallons of water to 75 to 85F is going to be difficult and expensive unless it happens naturally through the sun.  In that case, I would go with much shallower water as at 20 feet you are not going to get to 75F.

I think if you want a million gallon system, you are better off trying to create a natural pond and visit Pondboss.com.  I've done a lot of reading there over the years even though I do aquaponics.  There is a whole process to go through in terms of feeder fish, pH, etc.  Very interesting stuff and I'm in the market for a property with a pond on it to experiment with myself which is why I do the reading.

If you go more an aquaponics route, especially if you want Tilapia and have plenty of room, I would try a much smaller pond over which you will have more control.

This is the catfish feeding video:

I'm not entirely sold on Tilapia, it's just that everyone seems to like them.

I've met quite a few people who have had hybrid bluegill in their ponds, they were massive and extraordinarily prolific (In a 20x20 pond, my brother and i caught 40 or so in about 30 minutes just using worms).

Would shiners+catfish+hybrid bluegill be a good combo, or would i need more?

I'd be OK with starting off with a smaller one and then building up. I love the idea of a natural pool, however as I look, my concern is starting to be pumping water from the pond to the media to work on the ammonia & nitrates. I found some 10k GPH pumps last night, but that's only 240k gallons per day of water, and if I have a million gallon pond, it's cycling every 4 days.

Didn't read whole thread but know enough about it that I wouldn't.

Have seen tilapia raised inside greenhouse, in tanks set into the ground, to help keep temps up in areas that get cool/cold winters.
Others with old manure/compost banked up against the tanks to provide heat
They will live in water that other fish won't but do you want to eat that?

Gravity is your friend, let it do most of the work: pump water as little as possible, less things that can fail, the better

Have redundant/parallel  systems, so one is always ready when the other is broken, down for maint., etc

Have a O2 cylinder/reg plumbed through a normal closed solenoid to an O2 diffuser for when the power fails (it will fail, usually the day before harvest/sale)

No matter the species, keep it simple, third world: maggot racks, etc for free food

Get on pondboss, call your local university and see about speaking with their aquaculture folks. tour their facilities, etc
LEARN before you leap.