It is time for a new garden tractor.   My current one is 17 yrs old and just is not able to do what I need it to do.   So I have been looking at new compact tractors.  
The choices are.
1. John Deere 1025 R with a front loader and a 60" mower deck.
2. Kubota BX2370 with a front loader and a 60" mower deck.
My wife says get the JD.   The kubota looks like a orange smiling pac man.

Both are 3 cly. Diesel engines four wheel drive and have a Cat 1,  3 point hitch.  
I have no problem buying used if I can find what I want.  I am looking at new to figure out what I want.
So the question is which is the best bang for the buck.  I have talked to both dealers and with out trying for a deal the quoted purchase prices are with in $1000 of each other.

Deere all day long and twice on Sundays.

Which dealer is better?  Both look llike similar machines and if the price is close I would go with the better dealer.

Few folks have ever regretted buying John Deere.

I have done business with the John Deere dealership for about 10 yrs. Always got things done right.  Prices always seemed a little high.  Not enough to go else where just a little high.  The Kubota dealership is also the Honda dealer in the area.  I was in there last fall looking for a face shield for my motorcycle helmet., walked around for 15 minutes no one would talk to me or even acknowledge I was even in the store.  I stopped at the Harley dealership just down the road from the Honda dealer and they had exactly what I needed.  Told them about the waste of time at the Honda dealer.  Harley response was yeah they are A$$hole$

That.

I've had a BX1860 and decided after a while I needed the 25 for the backhoe. Kubota was 20 min away,  Deere was over an hour away.

It's completely made by Yanmar.

John Deere only puts their stickers on it.

The commercial guys that rely on them for a living are 95% Kubota and 5% JD (Yanmar).

John Deere are great....except for the 2305.  

Having said that, green paint is expensive.  I have a Kubota and love it.  I'd be happy with a John Deere too though.  I would just hate it when parts break....and everything breaks.  

A concern some have is having access to a good dealer locally for parts.  I can see that but with the internet, I can order any part I need, usually cheaper than the local dealer, and have it at my house in a few days.  So, I would buy whatever gives you the best value for the money.  

Take a look at Mahindra and Kiotti too.  Both have some very nice features for the money.


This thread is pertinent to your interests in case you haven't already seen it.

I was in a similar situation last year and wound up with a green one.  That said, I would have been perfectly happy with a Kubota.  For me it came down to having a local dealership / service department (which ruled out Mahindra, New Holland, and some others) and then price / financing.  The JD won by $1k or so on base price and had 0% financing, which Kubota was not offering at that time.

All else being equal, based on what you've said about customer service at the Honda / Kubota dealer, I'd steer clear and go with the JD.

Not for a while now.

observe:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_19/655776__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Implements_for_a_Kubota_BX_.html&page=1#i11194474
and
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_19/658685__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Imminent_sub_compact_tractor_purchase___Opinions_wanted_needed__.html&page=1#i11246180
and
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_19/675971__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Sprayers.html&page=1#i11559209
and
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_139/1503420__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Any_Kubota_experts_in_here_.html&page=1#i41370971

ar-jedi

except for all the 2305 PTO cases that exploded when you, you know, used the PTO.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/john-deere-owning-operating/183225-john-deere-2305-compact-tractor.html

ar-jedi

Nobody's perfect, I guess

Spot on. For sub compacts, kubota is the best option. I have a bx2660. Absolutely love it.

It's sad that my almost three decade old 318 frames are more substantial than that 2305 frame and the 318s are garden tractors (albeit over-engineered ones).

That alone would be a major factor in which brand I went with.

What are the Kabota frames like?

Today I stopped at the JD dealer and the Kubota dealer.    Test drove them both. Here is my first impressions of the tractors.
1.  These are Tractors not just beefed upped lawn mowers.
2.  The JD as a little bigger all the way around.  Not by much but a little bigger.
3.  The JD seat had more room in it and was more comfortable than the Kubota.
4.   The controls for the JD were closer and more ergonomic for me..
5.   Both tractors have power steering about the same for both.
6.  Shifting from high range to low range on the JD was no problem.  Shifting the Kubota was a problem It would not shift to low range until you pushed on the forward pedal then it would go into gear but there was some gear grinding.  The sales man said that was normal.
Overall the JD seemed to be laid out better and for me things seemed in the right place.  The JD just seemed to be finished.   The Kubota was the stripped down model.
Now I just have to decide if I want to spend the money for one of these.

My opinion is Deere is marked up because Deere.

I had a Massey and like them, but their compacts are expensive, too.  I chose Kubota because the engines are made either in GA or Japan, not India, Korea or Brazil.

Bought a Kubota MX5100 for farm.  Kubota has features about as close to industrial duty as you can get in a farm tractor.  Heavy duty axles, valve stem protectors, etc.  The pumps flat out gnaw.  I can lift 2 4x5s with that loader.  It will outperform my old 85hp Massey.

Gotta have 4WD, and gotta have the R4 tires, not the skinny ag ones.  The R4s don't tear up your fields as bad, and your CG is a little lower (which is good on a tractor).  I don't care for hydrostatic, too complicated to work on.  I like mechanical shuttle-shift--8 speed

Sorry, don't know much about the subcompacts.  My opinion is worth just what it cost you

ps
http://www.tractorbynet.com/guide/JohnDeere/1025R/reviews
and
http://www.tractorbynet.com/guide/Kubota/BX2370/reviews

ar-jedi

FPNI.

I'll have a small utility Deere one day. A 4000 series of some sort. I need a hefty loader and to be able to use rippers.

This right here.

That is your answer.

I'd ALWAYS take the second choice product (assuming both are good) if the support is there.

The right dealer makes you smile from the time you walk in until the time you sell the thing as scrap. (which is a long damn time if it's a good tool)

Just sayin.

kitties

I came across a 2012 1026R  JD tractor.  I understand that it is the same version as the 1025R only a couple of horsepower more and less pollution crap.  Any opinions on the 1026R?  Approximately 95 hrs. on it.

Not sure about that particular model, but if you can avoid the emissions crap I would.

I was thinking the same thing.  The dealer is dropping the tractor off tomorrow so I can try it out for a couple of hours.  

As much as I dislike Deere for their lack of innovation and their propensity to simply re-badge products from other companies (with the 20-50% markup that the green paint commands), I have to say that if dealer support is something you think you'll need go with the better dealer.

A huge number of farmers around my dad are running far and fast away from John Deere not only for the reasons I mentioned above, but because the dealer network (all owned by the same conglomerate in that area) has gone down hill in the last decade. Dealer support is everything to a farmer who may find himself needing parts asap for a breakdown etc. For a home hobby farmer etc you can order parts on the net and wait for shipping in most cases without experiencing severe hardship. A farmer could lose tens of thousands of dollars by waiting.

After some communication errors.  The dealer delivered the tractor so I can try it out.  The big fear I had was the 60" deck was to wide for a lot of places.  It was too wide.   The loader will be real useful.   I can see t that already.   This used unit has a 60 inch deck and turf saver tires.   If I would get a new one i would get the 54" deck and the R4 industrial tires.  One of the reasons for the loader is to move piles of snow.  With the turf saver tires I will need chains.   With the R4 tires I would be less likely to need the chains.  The used unit has 124 hr on it and I doubt if the 100 hr service was done on it.  Has any one bought during the John Deere green tag sale?   The dealer is having one on Friday.   Are the deals good enough on the new units to make it worth wild to buy a new unit?

if the tractor has 4WD you probably will not need anything but turf tires.  
i push/FEL snow all the time with my 4WD tractor and the turf tires do fine.

ar-jedi

I bought a JD 790 in 2002 with a loader, weight box, & belly mower.  Only ever spent money on oil, belts, filters & a seat. Belly mower was a waste of money, pain in the ass to mount & un-mount.  I'm looking for something a little bigger around 40hp with power shuttle or hydro.  The Mahindra tractors are reasonably priced but haven't had a chance to try one out.

I called the Dealer this morning and told hm to come and get the tractor.  The 60" deck was just to wide.  My property was set up for a 48" deck trees and fences and just about everything is about 56" apart.   His response was would you be interested if i could find a smaller deck?  My answer was sure.   He told me he would call back with some numbers for me this afternoon.  No call.  I guess i will keep the tractor until he calls.

Well the dealer came back with a price for the used 1026R.   It was higher than new prices at other dealers.  I think I will take another look at Kubota.

same tractor is used for mowing, when equipped with a MMM (mid-mount mower).  

the nice part about the MMM on the Kubota BX is that when not in use it sits up quite high, and therefore you can use the FEL (front end loader) when in uneven terrain with the MMM attached under the tractor.  so, no detaching the MMM when needing to use the FEL; just attach the FEL (which takes all of 90 seconds) and go to work.

ar-jedi

they made more than one, you know...


thanks.  i am not adverse to physical labor.


the best advice i can give you is to scroll down and read my sigline.  so simplify things as much as possible.  figure out what takes the most time and work out how to reduce that time.  etc etc etc.


a couple of thoughts on this.

a FEL is not the best implement to dig with.  if you want to do a ton of landscaping requiring lots of digging, rent a skidsteer and/or a mini-Ex. yes, you can "dig" with a FEL; but you are going to eventually run out of "ramp" and after that you won't be digging any deeper.  for moving loose material (stones, topsoil, mulch, etc) the FEL of course is a winner.  but digging, it's not optimum.  

with respect to a tractor and using a FEL, you are correct in that weight does help.  and 4WD helps more. the little BX is not "heavy" by tractor standards -- it's roughly about 1600 Lbs with the FEL on.  there is a tradeoff with weight and either tearing up the lawn or compressing the soil.  practically all subcompact and compact tractors suffer from the same problem: the hydraulics out front can pick up more weight than the tractor can balance.  hence the reason you see ballast boxes hung off of the back of practically every subcompact and compact tractor.  without the ballast box attached, and with enough load in the FEL bucket, you can get into some hairy situations pretty easily.  and with respect to power, an heavier tractor with a lower HP engine will generally outwork a lighter tractor with a higher HP engine.  the higher weight translates to more traction, and practically every subcompact and compact tractor runs out of traction before running out of power.  just some things to think about.

btw if you plan to use the FEL a lot then i strongly suggest getting a hydrostatic transmission tractor vs a geared transmission tractor.  even versus a geared shuttle shift setup, the hydrostatic configuration is so much easier to work with.

ar-jedi

The dealer did not come and get the tractor on Saturday morning.  I decided to play with it some more.    We had a small hill in the front yard, a couple of pieces of old retaining wall left over from a above ground pool (made from landscaping timbers) I got on the tractor and decided to see what i could do with this stuff.  The hill was dirt and basketball size rocks.  I started pushing the top off That worked though some of the rocks went rolling away. I moved a 16' piece of the wall into place and started back filling behind the wall.  Moved a 6' piece to the end of that and did some more back filling.  My wife decided she could use the rocks so I went around and picked up 16 big rocks with FEL moved the rocks to a central pile so the wife could decided which rocks would where. I now understand the need for a ballast box.  I could feel the rear end getting light when there were 5 rock in the bucket.  The MMM is to low to really use the FEL with out the mower interfering.  In the future I would take one off.  So after about 5 hrs work the hill is gone, a retaining wall is up, and it looks like it has been there forever.  There are rocks placed around the yard in plies for looking at.
My wife's comments were.
1.  You are having entirely to much fun with this tractor
2.  You really can do a lot of work with one of these.
3.  I never did like that hill.
I was amazed at the amount of work got done on just a short time.  Also Rocks of the same size can weigh vastly different amounts.   Tombstone size rocks of granite are heavy.   I am surprised that my back has not started acting up.  I actually got out of bed today.  That would not have happened if I had to everything by hand.

on level ground you can "sort of" get away with loading the FEL without a ballast box attached.  keep in mind, though, that the front axle is not liking you, and once you are either moving or on a slope, all bets are off.  

for example, hit the brakes too hard, the entire tractor will pitch forward.  if you are not in 4WD, you are now in a world of shit.  there is no braking action on the front wheels when not in 4WD. so  if you are still moving you will continue to move, since there is no braking despite how hard you are on the brakes (or off the hydro drive pedal).   note that ANY TIME the back wheels are off the ground, it is VERY IMPORTANT that you DO NOT let go of the steering wheel -- if you relax your grip the steering wheel will spin and the tractor can "flop over" as the front steering mechanism allows the tractor body to pivot.  

finally, in the USA it is now law that a tractor sold with a FEL has to be equipped with a ROPS (rollover protection system) including an overhead bar.  the important aspect of the ROPS is wearing your seatbelt.  if you tip the tractor, or worse roll it backwards because you were a dumbass and pulling from above the rear axle, keep your hands and feet inside the ride and let it happen.  no amount of sticking your foot/leg out to try to stop things from happening -- the weight of the tractor is just going to break your leg.  so, when things get hairy simply keep in the seat, hold the wheel, and enjoy the ride.  


yes.  

ar-jedi

one other thing for new tractor owners... read the "ps:" in the post below:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_19/672940__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Got_a_tractor_and_a_few_questions_.html&page=1#i11509914

ar-jedi

I know personally about tractors rolling over back wards.  Actually a garden tractor  ( Wheel Horse).   Summer between 8th grade and freshman year in High school.  I was clearing some land my Dad had bought on a lake.  My uncle had brought his garden tractor over so we had something to cut the field with.  I got tired of chopping at a small tree stump and wanted to try pulling it out with the garden tractor.  My Dad and Uncle said go ahead.   I hook up to the stump put the tractor in drive.  The tractor went up and over, I stuck my right hand out and broke my wrist.  Both my Dad and Uncle swore that all that would happen was I would spin the tire.  It did work out good for me.  The first weeks of High School was beat up the freshmen.   I was as big as all the sophomores and most of the juniors. plus I had a plaster club on my arm.  No one bothered me after the first kid got hit with my cast.   I guess now a days I would be charged with assault.

Any time you pull something, you must hook it up to a pull point on the tractor below the axle.  Hooking it up above the axle makes it a high probability that it's going to turn the tractor over.  

I've learned that lesson the hard way too...but didn't break any bones thankfully!

Well today I was going in to buy the John Deere.  I decided to stop at the Kubota dealer on the way just for a second look.   After playing with the JD all weekend I pretty much new what I liked and how everything worked.  So as I am looking at the Kubota I realize that the Kubota is a better fit for my land.  The JD size was just to big.  I will be buying a BX2670 with the front loader and a 54" deck.  A couple of things that I like better than the JD is the parking brake, and the cruise control.  Both are easier to use. My Dad almost 20yrs ago.  I can see him standing next to the tractor shaking his head over the idea of cruise control for a tractor.  I will not be getting the ballast box.  Instead I am getting the rear tires filled with a product made from beet juice.  It is noncorrosive, will not freeze, and adds some cushion for the ride.  The dealer will install this.  The JD dealer said we don't do that you have to find some farm tire company to do that for you.  The farmers use the stuff around here.  If after playing around with the loader and I need the ballast box i will buy one.
ar-jedi I have seen your carrier for the 3 pt hitch and I will be building something similar.

Thanks for all the help I appreciated it.

i think you are going to find that for heavy loads, such as driveway stone or even damp topsoil, the filled tires may not provide enough ballast.  your BX's tires are not that tall, and filled to 75% of capacity (spec) they contribute about 100 lbs per tire, or 200 lbs total.  this weight however, is in line with the rear axle, and not farther back.  the BX series ballast box weighs some 75 pounds as-is, and accepts around 300lbs of stone.  so, it's nearly twice the weight, and another 2 feet farther back, compared to the filled tires.  the other option is to keep an implement on when you use the loader -- a box blade or similar works perfect.


http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/200169-carry-all-project-number-872-a.html
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/207985-carryall-your-carryall.html

ar-jedi