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Posted: 1/4/2015 4:07:28 PM EDT
First off I know nothing about diesels, That being said....
My parents bought a used Kabota L295 DT recently.
It doesn't want to start very well. I can hold the switch to preheat for several minutes and it just wont fire.
It does fire right up when given a shot of ether though.( Yes I know not to use ether on a diesel but my dad did it and his tractor, so....)
Anyway I suspect the glow plugs need replaced.
Cant find much how-to info on replacing the plugs.
My search did come up info on the glow plug indicator that I had no idea about.
Just tried to start the tractor and I'm not seeing the indicator glow.
Should I replace the indicator also?

Both of these a simple fix?
Whats the go to place for parts, local or online?(We have a local  Kabota dealer)
Link Posted: 1/4/2015 4:32:25 PM EDT
[#1]
I am *NOT* a diesel mechanic, and only have limited experience to draw from, but if the glow plugs are suspect, you should be able to test the resistance of each plug (make sure all three are similar value and none are open), and verify that the correct amperage is flowing through the plug when it is on.

Glow plugs in the machines I am familiar with normally cycle, on a few seconds off a few seconds, so you could also verify that voltage was present if you didn't see current.  If the voltage isn't present and the glow plugs have a proper resistance value, start looking at the plug controller system - relay, timer, etc.

A $20 digital multimeter will let you check these values.

A parts diagram and service manual will also be handy.
Link Posted: 1/4/2015 5:43:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Dumb question.  How cold is it there?   Any chance your fuel is gelled up by cold temps?

I like to go for the damned obvious seeing as the complex is way beyond me.

Also if you have the previous owner's contact info maybe has an idea of the tractor's hiccups.
Link Posted: 1/4/2015 5:50:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Is there a fuse in the circuit for the glow plugs?  If so, I'd check for a blown fuse first.
Link Posted: 1/4/2015 5:53:29 PM EDT
[#4]
The no glow plug indicator is probably trying to tell you something.



Figure out if this thing has a computer box or not.



The no glow plug indicator could mean the glow plugs are not functioning, so start with figuring out if they are getting power and all that fun stuff, or if it has a computer of any sort the puter could also be the problem.



Tractor by net is where I would be doing my searches.



Since it is a small diesel engine I guess I would next branch off into just learning about glow plug systems and find one comparable to what you are working with.



The ether might be an issue if you get the glow plugs working.



Start watching the battery voltage while cranking if you can and figure out the rpm the thing is cranking at as well.



This could be a part that needs replaced the the previous owner unplugged the glow plugs somehow because he did not want to get into replacing it and it showed up as a flashing indicator on the dash when hooked up.



But really, tractor by net.
Link Posted: 1/4/2015 6:02:13 PM EDT
[#5]
I would recommend you clean the battery terminals and check the tightness of the pos and neg at both ends.  Next I'd say change the fuel filter.

Both caused starting starting problems with my John Deere 790.

Similar issue here
Link Posted: 1/5/2015 11:52:57 AM EDT
[#6]


Since it fires up well with ether, I agree that it is probably a glow plug circuit issue.  But make sure your battery connections are good, the battery voltage is good under load, and that the cranking speed seems adequate first.





On my Kubota the glow plug indicator is a coiled piece of wire inside of a protective shell, all mounted in the dash.  When you turn the key to the left the glow plug circuit is energized and you can see the wire turn red within it's shell.  You then hold the key to the left for the prescribed time and turn it back to the right to start. I would suspect that the wire indicator is wired in parallel with the glow plugs so that as the glow plugs heat up the special wire heats up and glows red.  But who knows, it could be a series circuit and if just one glow plug is bad, the whole system is down.





I would first check for voltage to the glow plugs and indicator.  No voltage, then trace it out and find where the problem is by starting with the switch and fuses and working your way to the glow plugs.  If there is voltage then we need to look at how much is there.  It should be just below battery voltage, if not there is a problem with a connection somewhere, trace it out.  If the voltage is not too much below resting battery voltage, then start checking individual glow plugs for continuity with an ohm meter with a very low scale, like they are a light bulb.  No continuity means they are burned out.  If using a low scale the ohm value of each plug should be close to the others, if one is not close to the others it is suspect but not guaranteed to be bad.





I would bet that there is going to be an issue with a fuse or the ignition switch.  The wiring harness could be screwed up my mice or corrosion, but I doubt it.  Of course it is always possible the glow plugs are blown from someone holding the switch too long.  But people wouldn't do that would they?





I was a diesel warranty specialist for a few months, did a little diesel mechanicing too, then I ran their diesel fuel injection shop for 10 years.  We worked on all lines of diesel fuel injection equipment and troubleshot systems in place on equipment when the real mechanics gave up.  Don't ask me about automotive diesel since 1990 though, cause that has all changed...





 
Link Posted: 1/8/2015 6:24:44 PM EDT
[#7]
THat is an older tractor so it should be pretty straight forward to troubleshoot.  Check and see if the glow plugs are getting power.  If they are then one or more is bad.  If they arent then next check the fuse.  If the fuse is blown replace it.  If the fuse is good then check the ignition and wiring.  
Link Posted: 1/9/2015 1:11:38 AM EDT
[#8]
Thanks everyone...this gives me some starting points to look into once it warms up a little.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 10:29:58 AM EDT
[#9]
First of all do not use any type of starting fluid on a Kubota, it is what is called a prechamber diesel. It can blow the chamber disk out of the engine and destroy the engine. You can take a elcheapo test light and ground the clamp end and touch the pointed end too the glow plug terminal and turn on the glow plugs and see if it lights up. Also some of the kubotas have a little heater looking thing that glows on the dash to indicate the glow plugs are working if this burns out the glow plugs don't work either. To test each glow plug without  removing them you can disconnect them and put the clamp end of the test light on the pos side of the battery and touch the glow plug with the pointed end if it lights up the plug is good. Hope this helps
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 4:22:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 8:22:50 PM EDT
[#11]
I cant believe a 3 cylinder 30 horsepower diesel kabota uses glow plugs.  My 2005 125 horsepower case doesnt even have glow plugs, although I wish it did.  My tractor is equipped with an air intake heater.  But from the sounds of it you could possibly have a fuel delivery problem.  My tractor does exactly as you describe  when I change the fuel filter.  The only way I have found to get it to run properly is have someone crank the engine while I bleed each fuel line at the injector.  After its bled there isnt any problems starting.  As for cold weather it will start without any problem down to around 10 degrees. Anything colder than that and I must plug in the block heater then she starts as if it was 80 degrees outside.

Just my .02
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 11:13:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I cant believe a 3 cylinder 30 horsepower diesel kabota uses glow plugs.  My 2005 125 horsepower case doesnt even have glow plugs, although I wish it did.  My tractor is equipped with an air intake heater.  But from the sounds of it you could possibly have a fuel delivery problem.  My tractor does exactly as you describe  when I change the fuel filter.  The only way I have found to get it to run properly is have someone crank the engine while I bleed each fuel line at the injector.  After its bled there isnt any problems starting.  As for cold weather it will start without any problem down to around 10 degrees. Anything colder than that and I must plug in the block heater then she starts as if it was 80 degrees outside.

Just my .02
View Quote



Believe it.  My 3 cylinder 25hp Kubota has glow plugs.
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 8:39:07 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I cant believe a 3 cylinder 30 horsepower diesel kabota uses glow plugs.  
View Quote

they do.  all of the 3 cylinder kubota oil-burners use glow plugs.

ar-jedi

Link Posted: 1/26/2015 12:15:04 PM EDT
[#14]
since diesel engines fire from compression and these are low horsepower engines, is that the reason for the glow plugs?
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 12:49:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
since diesel engines fire from compression and these are low horsepower engines, is that the reason for the glow plugs?
View Quote




You could use an incoming air preheater (like Dodge trucks) or you can use a glow plug.  Both have advantages and disadvantages.  The glow plugs in our Kubotas pre-heat the air in the combustion chamber and then when you crank it over, it (should) start.  

Most diesel tractors that I have seen use glow plugs.
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 1:22:24 PM EDT
[#16]

look to see if the engine has a plug in cord. We have a diesel Kubota at work and it will not start in the winter unless it is plugged in overnight to keep it warm. No pluggy, no starty. Hope that helps.
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 2:11:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
since diesel engines fire from compression and these are low horsepower engines, is that the reason for the glow plugs?
View Quote


the glow plugs are only used for a matter of seconds (just prior to starting) to preheat the combustion chamber.  
otherwise, the thermal mass of the head and cylinder wall can make getting the compression ignition process going very tough.
as the air is compressed, the heat produced by compression (pv=nrt) is sapped out to the cold cast iron head, block, and piston crown.  
when the diesel fuel is injected under high pressure, it simply does not ignite.  it doesn't help that the fuel is cold, and the incoming air is cold.

enter the glow plug arrangement.  

on typical tractors you turn the key past the "run" position, and to a "glow plug" position.  you pause at that position.
in this key position the starter is not activated, but 12VDC is applied to the glow plugs.   depending on the setup, they heat the combustion chamber or prechamber.  
after N(*) seconds, you turn the key a bit farther and the starter is activated, and hopefully the engine springs to life.
the way the key mechanism is set up, an internal spring not only pulls you back from the "start" position, but also past the "glow plug" position, and the key settles in the normal "run" position.

thereafter the glow plugs are not employed whatsoever; the engine runs strictly via compression ignition.

(*) how long is N?
in some cases there will be a visual or audible indication to proceed with the start process.  
this is how most modern diesel cars/trucks and Ag tractors are set up.

but with smaller tractor engines with no real electronics, you just develop a feel for how long to keep the glow plugs powered.
on a hot summer day, 2-3 seconds of glow plugs, then engage starter.
on a cold winter day, 15-20 seconds of glow plugs, then engage starter.

nevertheless -- glow plugs or not -- it's not uncommon for a very cold multi-cylinder diesel to start with just a subset of cylinders actually working;
therefore the (unbalanced) engine shakes and smokes a bit until the combustion process is occurring uniformly in all cylinders and on every power stroke.  

ar-jedi




Link Posted: 1/26/2015 5:21:49 PM EDT
[#18]
As others have said, since you are seeing the glow plug indicator light up, in all likelihood the glow plugs are not working.  Just need to figure out why.  

Check the forums at www.tractorbynet.com they're essentially the ar15 of the tractor world.

A block heater will definitely help the situation.  As somebody mentioned above the thermal mass of the engine being cold makes starting difficult for diesels.  If it's really cold, you can cycle the glow plugs twice - turn them on, wait until fully energized, turn the key back to off and then turn on the glow plugs again.  

All of my tractors, except the little 2 cylinder Yan Mar, had glow plugs.  The Yan Mar had a compression release that allowed the engine to spin up to speed before trying to start it, almost always the spinning mass would get it started even if cold.

My 7.3 liter diesel Excursion does not like the cold - it is miserable to start without having plugged it in the night before.  It can be done, but it's difficult and it takes a number of minutes before it smooths out and stops smoking.
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 7:09:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


the glow plugs are only used for a matter of seconds (just prior to starting) to preheat the combustion chamber.  
otherwise, the thermal mass of the head and cylinder wall can make getting the compression ignition process going very tough.
as the air is compressed, the heat produced by compression (pv=nrt) is sapped out to the cold cast iron head, block, and piston crown.  
when the diesel fuel is injected under high pressure, it simply does not ignite.  it doesn't help that the fuel is cold, and the incoming air is cold.

enter the glow plug arrangement.  

on typical tractors you turn the key past the "run" position, and to a "glow plug" position.  you pause at that position.
in this key position the starter is not activated, but 12VDC is applied to the glow plugs.   depending on the setup, they heat the combustion chamber or prechamber.  
after N(*) seconds, you turn the key a bit farther and the starter is activated, and hopefully the engine springs to life.
the way the key mechanism is set up, an internal spring not only pulls you back from the "start" position, but also past the "glow plug" position, and the key settles in the normal "run" position.

thereafter the glow plugs are not employed whatsoever; the engine runs strictly via compression ignition.

(*) how long is N?
in some cases there will be a visual or audible indication to proceed with the start process.  
this is how most modern diesel cars/trucks and Ag tractors are set up.

but with smaller tractor engines with no real electronics, you just develop a feel for how long to keep the glow plugs powered.
on a hot summer day, 2-3 seconds of glow plugs, then engage starter.
on a cold winter day, 15-20 seconds of glow plugs, then engage starter.

nevertheless -- glow plugs or not -- it's not uncommon for a very cold multi-cylinder diesel to start with just a subset of cylinders actually working;
therefore the (unbalanced) engine shakes and smokes a bit until the combustion process is occurring uniformly in all cylinders and on every power stroke.  

ar-jedi




View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
since diesel engines fire from compression and these are low horsepower engines, is that the reason for the glow plugs?


the glow plugs are only used for a matter of seconds (just prior to starting) to preheat the combustion chamber.  
otherwise, the thermal mass of the head and cylinder wall can make getting the compression ignition process going very tough.
as the air is compressed, the heat produced by compression (pv=nrt) is sapped out to the cold cast iron head, block, and piston crown.  
when the diesel fuel is injected under high pressure, it simply does not ignite.  it doesn't help that the fuel is cold, and the incoming air is cold.

enter the glow plug arrangement.  

on typical tractors you turn the key past the "run" position, and to a "glow plug" position.  you pause at that position.
in this key position the starter is not activated, but 12VDC is applied to the glow plugs.   depending on the setup, they heat the combustion chamber or prechamber.  
after N(*) seconds, you turn the key a bit farther and the starter is activated, and hopefully the engine springs to life.
the way the key mechanism is set up, an internal spring not only pulls you back from the "start" position, but also past the "glow plug" position, and the key settles in the normal "run" position.

thereafter the glow plugs are not employed whatsoever; the engine runs strictly via compression ignition.

(*) how long is N?
in some cases there will be a visual or audible indication to proceed with the start process.  
this is how most modern diesel cars/trucks and Ag tractors are set up.

but with smaller tractor engines with no real electronics, you just develop a feel for how long to keep the glow plugs powered.
on a hot summer day, 2-3 seconds of glow plugs, then engage starter.
on a cold winter day, 15-20 seconds of glow plugs, then engage starter.

nevertheless -- glow plugs or not -- it's not uncommon for a very cold multi-cylinder diesel to start with just a subset of cylinders actually working;
therefore the (unbalanced) engine shakes and smokes a bit until the combustion process is occurring uniformly in all cylinders and on every power stroke.  

ar-jedi






thats a good write-up there on glow plugs.    Sorry I shouldve been more thorough in stating the glow plugs only function upon start up. I thought everyone was already on that page. My question was due to being only a 3 cylinder 30 horsepower tractor could there be a "lack" of compression creating enough heat for the initial ignition.  Therefore to ensure EASY  starting, kabota has installed glow plugs in there engine.

I dont work on these low power diesel engines. If it doesnt put out at least 4500 horsepower im not really interested.
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 7:34:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Is it getting fuel? Check fuel filter. Add anti gel fluid in your area in winter.
Link Posted: 2/9/2015 10:39:02 PM EDT
[#21]
+1 on the compression release.
Im in western washington= not that cold, still need the compression release in the winter.
Link Posted: 2/12/2015 9:40:42 PM EDT
[#22]
My Kubota L3400 wouldn't start even though it cranked strong.  Found out that the fuel pump is wired to the ignition switch.  Those contacts were not closing even though it was completing the circuit to the starter.  Ended up putting a new ignition switch in and it's worked fine since.
Link Posted: 2/12/2015 10:20:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
I cant believe a 3 cylinder 30 horsepower diesel kabota uses glow plugs.  
View Quote
Most of the Kubota engines have indirect injection. That style of fuel system REQUIRES a warm pre-combustion chamber to properly atomize the fuel for combustion in the cylinder.

ibffsteve, the glow plugs on a Kubota are pretty easy to switch out.  Do some youtube searching and I'm sure you'll find the right video.  Also, head over to www.smokstak.com with your questions.  It is to small diesels what this forum is to firearms.
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