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Great AAR, thanks for sharing. A few questions if you don't mind:
What were your expected temps (vs actual)? Do you think you would have needed both the merino long johns and the under quilt? Could you explain a little bit about your "foot maintenance"? |
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Great AAR, thanks for sharing. A few questions if you don't mind: What were your expected temps (vs actual)? Do you think you would have needed both the merino long johns and the under quilt? Could you explain a little bit about your "foot maintenance"? View Quote I've spent time in the highland jungles of South America and this was a pretty good comparison. The trials with heavier foliage was always soaking wet which you just couldn't escape. And then, when you were exposed on the balds, it was overcast, sporadic showers and heavy, sustained winds which just exacerbated the wet conditions. We met a guy (Grant) who is thru-hiking from Scotland...he felt right at home crossing those Roan Highlands and said it was very similar to home...cold, wet, windy, overcast and heavy mist/fog. We just failed to consider that the weather conditions would remain crappy all day and all night. We had a little sun coming in and a little the last few miles in the Roan Mountain...if it wasn't for my brilliant sense of humor and sunny disposition, the whole trip would have been a disaster! Before ever trip I spend a lot of time in minimalist shoes and sandals to toughen them up. I wear minimalist boots at work (Army), but I will wear one pair of either bamboo or wool socks for the whole week; once home my feet are out and exposed as much as possible. On the trail, the same applies, but when my feet are constantly wet, the key is to wring out socks as much as possible (rotating was useless with these shoes). As soon as we got hammocks up, shoes came off, I would dry them with a bandana and massage them. From there on out I would wear open sandals around camp and when in the hammock for bed, I would put on my dry pair of wool socks. The only time I get hotspots is when my feet are so wet they get wrinkled which is what I was constantly fighting just for the few days we were on the trail. Gold Bond would have been useless when on the trail, but I could have used it at night with the dry socks and sucking as much moisture out of my feet as possible. My wife actually uses Burt's Bees Peppermint foot-lotion and she's had great success with her foot health as well. I just prefer dry and callused ROCK6 |
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Well, I've been toying around with some options for rain gear. I want to add some rain pants, but keep the weight down. My current (or at least from this trip) gear is an Outdoor Research Heilum II jacket (6.3oz) and a cuben fiber rain cover (1.5oz) for a total of 7.8oz
If I add pants (OR Helium, 6.2oz), the combined weight would be 14.0oz... I've pulled out my old 20D Packa, and with the OR Helium pants (6.2oz) the two total 16.1oz. A weight gain of 2.1oz. The Packa starts out as a pack rain cover and you can quickly pull the integrated cover/jacket out and over your pack suspension...I've used this during colder, wetter seasons but typically don't use it during the summer since the lighter rain jacket is often used as a wind shell as much as a rain jacket. The Packa does replace both the rain jacket and pack cover which can be a nice cost savings, but not always a significant weight savings. So with just the pants and Packa it's only a weight gain of 2.1oz but simplifies my full rain gear ensemble for the typical conditions down here. I'm using the 20D Packa and what I like about it is that you can put it on your pack like a rain cover and if it starts raining hard, you can pull the rest of the "jacket" part on with the pack still on you. I simply overheat with rain gear down here even when the temps are in the 40's. This drives my wife crazy because I'm constantly putting my jacket on and off as the rain is sporadic which also means having to stop and drop the pack all the time. The Packa will allow me to just fold the jacket part back without having to take my pack off and it's equally as accessible to put back on. This solves my pants problem with only a 2.1oz weight gain and simplifies the jacket and pack-cover. The Packa will "breathe" a little better than the jacket (the Packa also has pit zips where my Helium doesn't) and also provides better coverage for the pack (actually, complete coverage and zero gaps). The Packa can still be used as a jacket without the pack, but you just have a large piece of hump-material on your back. It's not something you would wear down to the mall, but once the hammock fly (or tent) is up and your pack is under (inside), you still have full use as a rain jacket. I'm just jealous as my wife and her sister/girlfriends took off at 0300 this morning heading up towards Hot Springs, NC for their own backpacking trip. Weather is supposed to suck here all weekend, so I may just go out for a day hike when it's raining to try out the pants, Packa and Salomon GTX shoes... ROCK6 |
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Again, great AAR and thanks for all the info! Curious, what do you guys do for laundry on your longer hikes? I start to reek after about the first day Although, the last multiple day hike/camp was in Army basic, so cleanliness wasn't as much of a concern
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Great heads up on what not to do!
I have found over the years! Some of the worse trips. With the worst weather! Are the most "MEMORABLE" ones!!! You may do 100 trips where most thing go your way! But the few that don't, (and no one gets hurt)! You usually remember fondly! You may cringe a little, too!!! LOL!!! So what is the next great adventure??? PITA45 |
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Again, great AAR and thanks for all the info! Curious, what do you guys do for laundry on your longer hikes? I start to reek after about the first day Although, the last multiple day hike/camp was in Army basic, so cleanliness wasn't as much of a concern View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Again, great AAR and thanks for all the info! Curious, what do you guys do for laundry on your longer hikes? I start to reek after about the first day Although, the last multiple day hike/camp was in Army basic, so cleanliness wasn't as much of a concern Quoted:
Great heads up on what not to do! I have found over the years! Some of the worse trips. With the worst weather! Are the most "MEMORABLE" ones!!! You may do 100 trips where most thing go your way! But the few that don't, (and no one gets hurt)! You usually remember fondly! You may cringe a little, too!!! LOL!!! So what is the next great adventure??? PITA45 ROCK6 |
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Glad you bailed. Lot of people try to soldier on and get themselves in trouble. There is always next time.
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Did you guys use body heat to stay warm at night? Would it be safe to say a 2-man tent is better than hammocks in colder weather.
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Great trip report with a lot of learning. It's hilarious to see your wife's smile go from a broad, happy look in the first picture to a pained grimace by the last few!
I love the idea of ultra-light camping but have never been able to commit because of all the "just-in-case" extras I like to bring. Do you think one more piece would have helped? Maybe a light insulating layer like a Patagonia synthetic puffy? Lots of warmth but pretty light and compressible also good to sleep in. Thanks for the AAR! |
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ROCK6 I always enjoy reading your threads and post for that matter.
Thanks for taking the time to write and post the pics. |
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Did you guys use body heat to stay warm at night? Would it be safe to say a 2-man tent is better than hammocks in colder weather. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Did you guys use body heat to stay warm at night? Would it be safe to say a 2-man tent is better than hammocks in colder weather. Quoted:
I love the idea of ultra-light camping but have never been able to commit because of all the "just-in-case" extras I like to bring. Do you think one more piece would have helped? Maybe a light insulating layer like a Patagonia synthetic puffy? Lots of warmth but pretty light and compressible also good to sleep in. Thanks for the AAR! Quoted:
ROCK6 I always enjoy reading your threads and post for that matter. Thanks for taking the time to write and post the pics. ROCK6 |
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Good post, I'm in the Lhotse camp. A few extra ounces makes huge impact.
Do you have any space blankets? I found those were great at blocking wind and have slept in 50 degree temps, on Mt. Whitney, in my hiking clothes. Of course they're noisy as hell... |
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Rock...nice write up! How well did the backpack rain cover work for you?
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Rock...nice write up! How well did the backpack rain cover work for you? View Quote ROCK6 |
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Had this thread sub for a while, finally got a chance to read through it. Great information Rock, thanks for sharing.
I recently had a similar experience, and while the topic was different, your theme remains so I am going to piggy back on your thread, because this topic is very important and can even be blended over to a get home or bug out scenario. I didn't want to start a thread in both the outdoor and survival section but my primary thread is here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/outdoors/Elk-hunt-2017-Always-learning-and-testing-gear-/1-690772/?r=11819843&page=1&anc=11819843#i11819843 7 day hunt in the Rockies roughly 9000 feet in elevation. We use the closest town for weather reports and planning. Its probably a couple thousand feet lower and try to take it into account but as you know, ya never know! I went with a modernish synthetic 23 degree compact RECON 3 mummy bag https://www.elitesurvival.com/sleeping-bags/recon-3-sleeping-bag/ I used this bag for the past two years. Lows for the first few nights were forecast in the teens, ended up being single digit, -Bah I can just wear some extra cloths, my ultra light insulated inflatable sea to summit pad will help make up some heat... https://www.rei.com/product/882037/sea-to-summit-ultralight-insulated-sleeping-pad Big mistake. Froze the first night in our 4 man tent. I had on wool socks, poly cotton sweat pants, fleece hoodie, (my planned sleeping gear) and had a fleece blanket stuffed in my bag. The next night I wrapped my wool sock covered feet up with a hunting shirt, had on long johns, sweat pants, poly thermal under the fleece hoodie, wool hat, still froze. After that the temps warmed up above 20 and it wasn't to bad but that experience left an impression on me. I ended up just sleeping in all my hunting cloths for the rest of the week. My fjallraven vidda pro pants work wonderfully, they are water resistant, and if they do soak through, they dry really fast, and are wind resistant. I have a lot of trouble keeping my feet warm. I think They incurred damage on a long hunt a few years ago. Soaking wet freezing feet for almost 18 hours while covering over 20 miles really put a long term hurting on them. I bulled through it, but should have stopped and dried my feet out. Live and learn. Ever since they get cold easy and take forever to warm up. Just after this last hunt both my big toes still have some numbness, but steep climbing up and down with kick stepping can cause this, they are feeling better. Actually going to head out tomorrow for my first quick hike since the trip just over a week ago. Any ways, one of the guys that goes always brings this huge sleeping bag, says its worth the 8~10 pounds for many nights of comfort. We basecamp and really only ruck the bulk of our gear 4 to 6 miles (all up hill) and I am starting to see some merit behind this theory. That's why I had a recent thread, to figure out what my old sleeping bag was: https://www.ar15.com/forums/outdoors/Need-help-to-ID-an-old-sleeping-bag-/1-690717/ I think I will ruck the old 6 pound monster zero degree synthetic bag next time. I could buy something high speed low drag, but only using it one week per year sometimes bulky wins out. I have a 20 degree down bag, so seeking out a zero down bag isn't really necessary for my gear lineup. I would really only use it for one, maybe two outings a year as 20 degrees is really my comfort limit. I just don't have much interest to camp when its below zero. If it happens on a hunt, so be it, but I don't plan to be out in it. I always had the lightest pack, by many pounds. I averaged about 50 pounds this past trip, others were 20 over that weight. I know its a little different than light weight cross country but when your base camping for a week plus, its nice to have plenty of food and a couple extras. Sometimes a little extra weight is worth the suffer. We also divi up a pretty substantial tent, its nice to stand up under cover to get dressed, plus the tent combined with tarp allows us to dry our gear when necessary. As far as shoes go I agree, and for me its really tough, I like breathable hikers, because my feet sweat very easy, become damp, then get cold the rest of the day. But that's a thin line vs. going waterproof, because as you said one patch of wet grass and your in the same boat. I also agree, and no matter the scenario, camp sandals are a MUST! letting your feet air out, even if cold is necessary on any wet trip. I use a Walmart crocks, because they are light, and you can wear them with socks if you choose. In the end I always go gortex/ waterproof because once your off trail and bushwhacking, it doesn't take long to get damp feet with breathable footwear if the surroundings are wet. I also could have used a larger filter like my MSR pump. I used my Sawyer squeeze because I figured I could filter more water than with my mini, but still allow it to snuggle with me in my sleeping bag without taking up to much room. Keeping an MSR pump filter in my bag would be annoying but freezing temps would kill the filter. We ended up boiling water as well, we had three propane cylinders and a small cooker, used a fire to but smoked water sucks. Good fun/hard trip and we ended up with 100# packs on the way out. Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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A few more pics, camp setup:
Attached File Attached File Attached File Also, boots I used this year are the discontinued version of the meindl air active backpacker. Great stiff soles for heavy loads, but not stiff like alpine boots. Only problem with stiff soles is they start to hurt my feet after about 75 miles of back to back use. I like them for steep climbs and heavy loads but when hauling only a day pack they wear on your feet. My weight is to high to consider adding "approach" boots. Again give and take. Another thought: This topic also proves another bottom line that many fail to account for; and that there is no better way to test yourself, you gear, your planning abilities then getting out doing it, pushing yourself, learning what works for you. As I posted in another threat, I have been on 7 plus day basecamp hunts living out of a pack, I have done it, and its my last plan for a disaster situation. Its fun when its for fun but I can't imagine it during a serious stressful situation. In other words planning to head into the woods is no plan at all. |
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Had this thread sub for a while, finally got a chance to read through it. Great information Rock, thanks for sharing. I recently had a similar experience, and while the topic was different, your theme remains so I am going to piggy back on your thread, because this topic is very important and can even be blended over to a get home or bug out scenario. View Quote ROCK6 |
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I know a few hunters like that... i have been paying close attention to your threads like this, my wife and i are going to try and hike the northville placid trail next year. 133 miles...
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We completely failed to fully consider the effects of temperature at the elevations we would be hiking (Roan Highlands), coupled with some severe thunderstorms and high winds. We froze our asses off after the first day. View Quote Cold-Wet is a more sure killer than Cold-Dry. |
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