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Posted: 2/14/2017 9:01:53 PM EDT
[#1]
How longs your torso.....
K...k....k....k...... Ugh. K....I....f... Ugh... Rhino thingy llc. Makes good stuff. But you'll pay. So budget is the next question. Then use/distance/weather. I've been satisfied with my Kelty falcon 4k. Drop the top lid..I'm down to 3k ci. Good suspension..webbing galore.. Etc etc. Getting fitted is key to any pack you chose... |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 9:07:42 PM EDT
[#2]
I've had several Mystery Ranch and Kifaru packs over the years, now I only have Kifaru. I currently have a ZXR, Xray Tailgunner I, EE and a ton of pouches. The Xray gets used the most followed by the ZXR. If you order them new from Kifaru they adjust the pack to your supplied measurements at the factory. If you buy used, which I suggest, it's pretty easy to get everything adjusted yourself. There are even videos on how the do it. Both brands are heavy, but I do feel that I can carry heavier weight more comfortably with the Kifaru than with any other pack I've owned. (Mountain Smith, Gregory, Lowe, North Face)
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Posted: 2/14/2017 11:41:30 PM EDT
[#3]
I have a Mystery Ranch SATL. When I first bought it I thought I would love it. Its not bad, but I am looking for something else now. A few complaints with this particular pack:
1) It seems like it rides a little low. The top of the lid is level with the top of my shoulders. I kind of like my pack high on my shoulders. If I adjust the shoulder height then the waist belt is on my ribs. 2) It seems like it fits a long ways off my back. Its not a huge pack, but you would not know it if you looked at me from the side. It would be better if the pack was wider and stayed closer to your body. The combination of not being high enough and being too far off my back makes it feel like its pulling back quite a bit. In general I'm a little disappointing considering how many MR fans there seem to be. |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 12:40:38 AM EDT
[#4]
I've had great luck with HPG products. I'm 6'2" with a 36" waist and their suspension is the most comfortable I've ever used. Their large packs have some amazing compression.
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Posted: 2/15/2017 7:09:32 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a Mystery Ranch SATL. When I first bought it I thought I would love it. Its not bad, but I am looking for something else now. A few complaints with this particular pack: 1) It seems like it rides a little low. The top of the lid is level with the top of my shoulders. I kind of like my pack high on my shoulders. If I adjust the shoulder height then the waist belt is on my ribs. 2) It seems like it fits a long ways off my back. Its not a huge pack, but you would not know it if you looked at me from the side. It would be better if the pack was wider and stayed closer to your body. The combination of not being high enough and being too far off my back makes it feel like its pulling back quite a bit. In general I'm a little disappointing considering how many MR fans there seem to be. What size did you get. The SATL comes in everything from small to 2xl. Those sizes if following other pack companies is not based on cubic inches but size. Specs show it at 3500 cubes. That ruck isn't big enough to be over your head. My falcon with top lid gone. Low pro lid up. Is roughly 3-3200k. It rest even with the top of my shoulders. Since it has a fully adjustable frame. My hip belt rest where it is supposed to. Does the SATL have an adjustable frame..doesn't look like it from the pictures. If the pack is pulling back ward ...your adjustments are wrong and you've packed incorrectly..more than likely. Not being a dick..just saying. |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 7:20:28 AM EDT
[#6]
Well, it's hard to make a pack as big as the EMR scale down, but it is a robust pack that will fit you and likely last for your grandchildren to use. I have a first generation EMR with two long pockets and a back-pocket along with the awesome Scout that can be piggy-backed. For my end-of-world, bug across the continent pack fantasy, this is it for me. For reality? It's my cold weather, long-term bugout bag designed to haul equipment to my truck for transportation. As much as I hate the digital ACU (UCP) pattern, my favorite Kifaru pack is the Zulu with XTL top-lid; for a combat ruck, it's my top choice. For shear capacity and comfort, the EMR is hard to beat. You can't change the physics of weight, but truly a 100 pounds in my Kifaru is more comfortable to carry than 60 pounds in my HSGI-modified ALICE pack.
These days? I'm distance backpacking with a ULA Circuit (in multicam of course  ). With less than a 30 pound total weight (including food, 2-liters of water, and fuel), I can go 9-10 days on the trail, only needing to resupply water. I can just about stick three of those loads in my EMR/Scout. Other than training, I just don't use my Kifaru much these days. If you have smaller packs, then this one "big" pack will cover all your significant load-needs. I have to force myself to use it just to justify the investment and now with the kids grown and almost all on the their own, I don't need to pack for three or four. I do have my fantasy long-term bugout loaded up in the Kifaru, but as I said, I only need the shoulder straps to carry it the 30 feet to my truck My son will likely use it down the road when he starts backpacking with his future wife and two or three kids...
I will likely sell my Arc'Teryx Tango and my massively large HSGI-modified Large ALICE, but the EMR/Scout combo will remain. For now, I have enough packs to outfit a platoon
ROCK6 |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 9:52:41 AM EDT
[#7]
I have kifaru, Mystery Ranch, and Eberlestock rucks. The only one I can see "scaling down" is the Eberlestock, because I can leave the side pockets empty, crunch them in and cinch them down. You can cinch down the sleeping bag compartment on the MR 6500 but it's still huge. The MR wolfhound has a removable lower portion. Kifarus are generally built like a giant trash bag style ruck, not too much play in that for scaling.
Eh, I guess the EMR II could crunch in and cinch down a bit, but it still looks tall afterwards. Maybe one of the open architecture packs like the MR crewcab, the Eberlestock Warhammer, or the Kifaru Nomad would work like that. Open it up and insert cargo bag or smaller pack to make it larger. ive done it plenty with the crewcab and warhammer. Warhammer 
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Posted: 2/16/2017 3:36:03 PM EDT
[#8]
I'd forgotten about Eberlestock; I'll need to consider them also.
Lots of useful info and perspectives voiced so far. |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 5:47:21 PM EDT
[#9]
I love my Kelty 4K. It's protus' fault that I bought one, but it fits more shit than I want to carry any distance, and just feels good under load. It was also relatively inexpensive.
I also haven't managed to tear it up, though it has been covered in mud and hosed down. I think it's still got some grit in the nooks and crannies but still good to go. Every time I buy a new pack my wife rolls her eyes and plans a quid-pro-quo shopping spree. I'm trying to resist, but I'm an addict. Last time the LB 3-days were on sale I had to have one. I don't think it's even been used yet. |
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Posted: 2/18/2017 12:47:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have kifaru, Mystery Ranch, and Eberlestock rucks. The only one I can see "scaling down" is the Eberlestock, because I can leave the side pockets empty, crunch them in and cinch them down. You can cinch down the sleeping bag compartment on the MR 6500 but it's still huge. The MR wolfhound has a removable lower portion. Kifarus are generally built like a giant trash bag style ruck, not too much play in that for scaling. Eh, I guess the EMR II could crunch in and cinch down a bit, but it still looks tall afterwards. Maybe one of the open architecture packs like the MR crewcab, the Eberlestock Warhammer, or the Kifaru Nomad would work like that. Open it up and insert cargo bag or smaller pack to make it larger. ive done it plenty with the crewcab and warhammer. Warhammer That last pic of your pack looks like it would be really uncomfortable if you had any real weight in it. The whole idea of having packs with longer stays is to distribute the weight and keep it as close the body as possible. All of the weight is then transferred down to the waist belt and carried on the hips. Your pack looks like it would have all of the weight on your shoulders pulling away from you. |
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Posted: 2/18/2017 1:16:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That last pic of your pack looks like it would be really uncomfortable if you had any real weight in it. The whole idea of having packs with longer stays is to distribute the weight and keep it as close the body as possible. All of the weight is then transferred down to the waist belt and carried on the hips. Your pack looks like it would have all of the weight on your shoulders pulling away from you. Of course its uncomfortable, it has a giant duffel bag attached to it. I needed to get all my stuff from camp A to camp B via helicopter. That pack also doesn't have stays, it has a metal frame. The pictures just show how expandable the system is. Heres the Mystery ranch crew cab on the left, which is the same expandable concept as the Warhammer, but with a large assault pack style panel in the front (which I dont care for). The right of it is the mystery ranch 6500 and then the eberlestock X3. 
Eberlestock Terminator 
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Posted: 2/18/2017 1:44:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Eberlestock should be looked at.
Youtube or play on their site. In the hunting section they have a pack called "the one" so they do get into trying to fit all needs into one setup. Their sky crane setup had zipout sections, big pouches, you could remove or add depending on what you wanted to accomplish. For those that don't know, eberlestock is known for the backpacks where the rifle butt sticks out of the top of the pack and you can sort of pull it out. Kind of depends on rifle and setup and all that. As I recall the skycrane sort of wrapped the pouches around the scabbard and when I say pouches I am talking full length zip up pouches that you added or subtracted depending on what you wanted to do. Had a waist pack as well but heck of a waist belt for an itty bitty waist pack if you dumped the rest of the pack. My knowledge of eberlestock is from a decade or two ago I guess. They have a shot show video so they are still in the game but I expect things have changed a ton. I am not knocking the other quality brands mentioned and I get nothing for saying eberlestock got some of my money way back when. They make an interesting setup in many cases. |
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Posted: 2/18/2017 1:53:13 PM EDT
[#13]
The Skycrane is essentially the same as the Warhammer I posted with an internal frame versus the external frame, and it comes with the zip-in interior assault pack versus buying it separate. The long side pockets are smaller too.
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Posted: 2/19/2017 12:58:38 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course its uncomfortable, it has a giant duffel bag attached to it. I needed to get all my stuff from camp A to camp B via helicopter. That pack also doesn't have stays, it has a metal frame. The pictures just show how expandable the system is.Heres the Mystery ranch crew cab on the left, which is the same expandable concept as the Warhammer, but with a large assault pack style panel in the front (which I dont care for). The right of it is the mystery ranch 6500 and then the eberlestock X3. http://i.imgur.com/iHXxEJR.jpg Eberlestock Terminator http://i.imgur.com/Lu1VkGb.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That last pic of your pack looks like it would be really uncomfortable if you had any real weight in it. The whole idea of having packs with longer stays is to distribute the weight and keep it as close the body as possible. All of the weight is then transferred down to the waist belt and carried on the hips. Your pack looks like it would have all of the weight on your shoulders pulling away from you. Of course its uncomfortable, it has a giant duffel bag attached to it. I needed to get all my stuff from camp A to camp B via helicopter. That pack also doesn't have stays, it has a metal frame. The pictures just show how expandable the system is.Heres the Mystery ranch crew cab on the left, which is the same expandable concept as the Warhammer, but with a large assault pack style panel in the front (which I dont care for). The right of it is the mystery ranch 6500 and then the eberlestock X3. http://i.imgur.com/iHXxEJR.jpg Eberlestock Terminator http://i.imgur.com/Lu1VkGb.jpg Okay, I guess I'm missing the point. Does the OP want a large pack that he can hike out of for a week and then compress it down for an overnighter and still be comfortable or does he just want a huge bag that he can compress down after he pulls it off the truck or bird? Because if you're not hiking with it, a large duffle bags is what you want. |
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Posted: 2/19/2017 1:59:00 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay, I guess I'm missing the point. Does the OP want a large pack that he can hike out of for a week and then compress it down for an overnighter and still be comfortable or does he just want a huge bag that he can compress down after he pulls it off the truck or bird? Because if you're not hiking with it, a large duffle bags is what you want. The bag I posted can do all of the above, with a picture for each state you described... |
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Posted: 2/19/2017 9:12:04 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bag I posted can do all of the above, with a picture for each state you described... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Okay, I guess I'm missing the point. Does the OP want a large pack that he can hike out of for a week and then compress it down for an overnighter and still be comfortable or does he just want a huge bag that he can compress down after he pulls it off the truck or bird? Because if you're not hiking with it, a large duffle bags is what you want. The bag I posted can do all of the above, with a picture for each state you described... |
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Posted: 2/19/2017 12:01:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want something like the former, quoted above. Something along the lines that Daemon has suggested. Then an open architecture cargo style ruck is what you seek. Again, I only have experience with these three below, so I will only comment on them. I know of the Kirafu EMR but have never used it. i will say i have tried their Omni frame on a different pack and it is far superior to anything I have ever used before. Eberlestock has the Warhammer and Skycrane - Warhammer: External frame, early ones has an ALICE, newer ones use a tubular lightweight frame. Adjustable harness, lots of padding. 2 large side pockets with side zips and top load. Can accept both G1 little brother assault pack or camp duffels via a series of two zippers, one on the inside of the pack, one on the outside. Molle back wall, can accept rifle scabbard with zip opening through top cover. Side pockets collapse in to make compact ruck. Approx $300 Retail - Skycrane: Similar to warhammer but comes with G1 assault pack. Aluminum stays instead of external frame. Side pockets are the same as the operator/terminator/phantom, smaller than the Warhammer with no side zips. Approx $500 retail Mystery Ranch Crewcab: - Uses NICE frame which is compatible with a dozen or so pack systems, fully adjustable with internal stays and hard support panel. Has two long side pockets that collapse in, rear panel offers approx 1000ci assault pack style unit. Daypack lid can be clipped in to top adding another 1000ci, able to be taken off and has straps that pull out for a small standalone daypack. Epxands with sidewalls poping out and rear panel forming a "box", covered by the daypack lid, offering another 4000-5000ci of open space inside. Approx $600 retail The crewcab is probably the most stout of the three, and I would say it fits your requirements for modularity and being able to be scaled up and down the best. |
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Posted: 2/19/2017 12:15:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then an open architecture cargo style ruck is what you seek. Again, I only have experience with these three below, so I will only comment on them. I know of the Kirafu EMR but have never used it. i will say i have tried their Omni frame on a different pack and it is far superior to anything I have ever used before. Eberlestock has the Warhammer and Skycrane - Warhammer: External frame, early ones has an ALICE, newer ones use a tubular lightweight frame. Adjustable harness, lots of padding. 2 large side pockets with side zips and top load. Can accept both G1 little brother assault pack or camp duffels via a series of two zippers, one on the inside of the pack, one on the outside. Molle back wall, can accept rifle scabbard with zip opening through top cover. Side pockets collapse in to make compact ruck. Approx $300 Retail - Skycrane: Similar to warhammer but comes with G1 assault pack. Aluminum stays instead of external frame. Side pockets are the same as the operator/terminator/phantom, smaller than the Warhammer with no side zips. Approx $500 retail Mystery Ranch Crewcab: - Uses NICE frame which is compatible with a dozen or so pack systems, fully adjustable with internal stays and hard support panel. Has two long side pockets that collapse in, rear panel offers approx 1000ci assault pack style unit. Daypack lid can be clipped in to top adding another 1000ci, able to be taken off and has straps that pull out for a small standalone daypack. Epxands with sidewalls poping out and rear panel forming a "box", covered by the daypack lid, offering another 4000-5000ci of open space inside. Approx $600 retail The crewcab is probably the most stout of the three, and I would say it fits your requirements for modularity and being able to be scaled up and down the best. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I want something like the former, quoted above. Something along the lines that Daemon has suggested. Then an open architecture cargo style ruck is what you seek. Again, I only have experience with these three below, so I will only comment on them. I know of the Kirafu EMR but have never used it. i will say i have tried their Omni frame on a different pack and it is far superior to anything I have ever used before. Eberlestock has the Warhammer and Skycrane - Warhammer: External frame, early ones has an ALICE, newer ones use a tubular lightweight frame. Adjustable harness, lots of padding. 2 large side pockets with side zips and top load. Can accept both G1 little brother assault pack or camp duffels via a series of two zippers, one on the inside of the pack, one on the outside. Molle back wall, can accept rifle scabbard with zip opening through top cover. Side pockets collapse in to make compact ruck. Approx $300 Retail - Skycrane: Similar to warhammer but comes with G1 assault pack. Aluminum stays instead of external frame. Side pockets are the same as the operator/terminator/phantom, smaller than the Warhammer with no side zips. Approx $500 retail Mystery Ranch Crewcab: - Uses NICE frame which is compatible with a dozen or so pack systems, fully adjustable with internal stays and hard support panel. Has two long side pockets that collapse in, rear panel offers approx 1000ci assault pack style unit. Daypack lid can be clipped in to top adding another 1000ci, able to be taken off and has straps that pull out for a small standalone daypack. Epxands with sidewalls poping out and rear panel forming a "box", covered by the daypack lid, offering another 4000-5000ci of open space inside. Approx $600 retail The crewcab is probably the most stout of the three, and I would say it fits your requirements for modularity and being able to be scaled up and down the best. I concur in the open architecture configuration. While I have always had suspicions about zippers, this can be mitigated through the use of compression straps and the like. |
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Posted: 2/19/2017 12:37:44 PM EDT
[#19]
The NICE frame is internally framed but designed around wearing with body armors through the removable BVS stays. If you find one on ebay just make sure it doesn have the older style non-removable foam stays, they make the pack hard to wear without armor and cant be taken off.
Eberlestock has a love/hate relationship with me and armor, their over sized kidney pad can make it difficult if you don't adjust it just right. Heres a picture of my 6500 loaded to probably 120lbs over armor (same NICE frame) to prove it is attainable. I would suggest the mystery ranch chest strap if wearing any pack with armor, it's pretty amazing. 
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Posted: 2/20/2017 11:18:20 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love my Kelty 4K. It's protus' fault that I bought one, but it fits more shit than I want to carry any distance, and just feels good under load. It was also relatively inexpensive. I also haven't managed to tear it up, though it has been covered in mud and hosed down. I think it's still got some grit in the nooks and crannies but still good to go. Every time I buy a new pack my wife rolls her eyes and plans a quid-pro-quo shopping spree. I'm trying to resist, but I'm an addict. Last time the LB 3-days were on sale I had to have one. I don't think it's even been used yet. I don't run the top lid at all. Forces me to fit only what I need in the main 3k ci. Body. Mines held up well. But the webbing color is bleaching out from UV light. Mines the coyote brown..so webbing (molle)is turning a darker color. But it's already...8-10years old iirc.sides that it's holding up good. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 12:39:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love my Kelty 4K. It's protus' fault that I bought one, but it fits more shit than I want to carry any distance, and just feels good under load. It was also relatively inexpensive. 4000ci isnt really a ruck per se, more of a large assault pack/3-day. I was issued both the mystery ranch 6500 and the SATL, the 6500 is, well, 6500ci. The SATL (considered an assault pack) is 3800ci. The lower end of an actual rucksack is around 5000ci. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 8:36:41 PM EDT
[#22]
I bought my Kifaru Zulu around 2004.
I am a professional "Roadie" aka concert touring lighting technician. I travel 200-300 days a year. I have used my Zulu daily for those approximately 3000 days. In and out of airports, planes, tour buses, arenas, and still going strong. If it ever dies, I will definitely get another. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 7:04:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
4000ci isnt really a ruck per se, more of a large assault pack/3-day. I was issued both the mystery ranch 6500 and the SATL, the 6500 is, well, 6500ci. The SATL (considered an assault pack) is 3800ci. The lower end of an actual rucksack is around 5000ci. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I love my Kelty 4K. It's protus' fault that I bought one, but it fits more shit than I want to carry any distance, and just feels good under load. It was also relatively inexpensive. 4000ci isnt really a ruck per se, more of a large assault pack/3-day. I was issued both the mystery ranch 6500 and the SATL, the 6500 is, well, 6500ci. The SATL (considered an assault pack) is 3800ci. The lower end of an actual rucksack is around 5000ci. The difference between military vs civilians gear. Honestly. Three days of trail walking isn't three days of mission sustainability. Plus pack design /maker comes into play. Use the Kelty MAP 3500 for example. Classic assault/3 day set up. Similar in size to the older eagle 3a and BHI pack. That packs CI measurements are mostly from all the pockets Heck the med Alice is what 22-2600ci iirc. . The falcon he's talking about is 3 times bigger than that. Its a full suspension pack. Almost hip high if you fill it. Has only one front admin area. The rest is just big open pack. Like any typical pack. For usage in your area it probably would be inadequate for a three+ day mission. Especially in colder climates. I have no idea if your familiar with that pack. That's the only reason in went into detail. And find your info on the packs past/present to be helpful-always have . Especially in how they hold up. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:22:06 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The difference between military vs civilians gear. Honestly. Three days of trail walking isn't three days of mission sustainability. Plus pack design /maker comes into play. Use the Kelty MAP 3500 for example. Classic assault/3 day set up. Similar in size to the older eagle 3a and BHI pack. That packs CI measurements are mostly from all the pockets Heck the med Alice is what 22-2600ci iirc. . The falcon he's talking about is 3 times bigger than that. Its a full suspension pack. Almost hip high if you fill it. Has only one front admin area. The rest is just big open pack. Like any typical pack. For usage in your area it probably would be inadequate for a three+ day mission. Especially in colder climates. I have no idea if your familiar with that pack. That's the only reason in went into detail. And find your info on the packs past/present to be helpful-always have . Especially in how they hold up. Fair enough, however the medium ALICE was what was issued before we got assault packs, it fills that exact role. A lot of people default to military terminology when describing pack size even for civilian packs, mainly because the civilian side doesnt really sub-divide packs into much other than "daypack" or "backpack". |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:48:18 AM EDT
[#25]
Oh I agree.
For example. One companies day pack is 2800..another 1200..there is zero standard. Plus the term 3 day..imho confuses anyone who's never had to really lug 3 days of shit. Reason we see ghb/bob/pack threads of say a eagle 3a sized pack or similar with shit lashed all over it. I just used the Alice as a side example. But agree..it's not a big pack. I went from the small cbak mule (military one) for years as a day pack. But for anything outside of basics..sidearm..mini kit etc. It was to small.imho. Stepped up to the Slumber jack strider. It's imho a good "day pack" but with proper gear choices could go 24. Very manageable at 25ish pounds. But wouldn't ride well with more. It's shown as 1600ci iirc. There will never be a one pack does all...lol But I've narrowed mine down to- Cbak mule Slumber jack strider Kelty falcon This allows me to do day runs...longer day hikes or extras for hunt or weather and the Falcon for anything under 5 days. And I always finger bang packs when I find them lol .always better stuff out there as tech evolves. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 4:38:17 PM EDT
[#26]
My ulterior priority when buying packs either on mine or the govs dime is always combat, I find that usually translates decently into my civilian use requirements. At worst everything is overbuilt.
For work I use a 3-4 pack set. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 5:42:43 PM EDT
[#27]
Allow me to list some of the larger packs I have, just for reference purposes:
CFP-90, with a permanent repair made to the plastic "Duck's foot" to which the shoulder straps attach. Still adjustable, though, and I have the attachable patrol pack. MOLLE II pack with updated frame, with attachable assault pack. Also have a one-off beavertail rig from Down East.. MOLLE I with updated frame, ditto to the above Med ALICE with Hellcat mod. LG ALICE with Hellcat Mod. USMC FILBE, with attachable assault pack USMC ILBE, with attachable assault pack and Recon/Corpsman pack, plus full length beavertail attachment Of all of them, I like the ILBE best, but it is not suited for wearing armor, whereas the MOLLE packs are definitely /gtg with their updated frames. Same goes for FILBE, which is pretty close to the MOLLE II as far as most everything goes. I also have a load of medium and smaller packs, but that's not what this thread is about. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:29:33 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My ulterior priority when buying packs either on mine or the govs dime is always combat, I find that usually translates decently into my civilian use requirements. At worst everything is overbuilt. For work I use a 3-4 pack set. I've had to separate the two. Work/Combat packs are just that; for deployments, EDC, field work etc. You could go cheaper, but having carried packs significant distance, I prefer quality suspension (Kifaru, Mystery Ranch, etc.). Doing longer backpacking trips, I've had to cut ounces and a 2-3 pound pack with 13-14 pound base weight keeps me under 30 pounds. My current focus is distance and I've found a very comfortable set of gear for those types of "missions" and I have a dedicated pack for it. I can see just opting for the more robust pack to do everything, but I also backpack for comfort...less weight = more enjoyable
I still have my Kifaru Zulu as my "combat ruck", but I'm doing less patrolling and more backpacking these days... ROCK6 |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:41:56 PM EDT
[#29]
I very much understand that ounces become pounds if one is not disciplined. That said, gossamer-light packs, no matter how well made will likely fail before stouter, heavier packs. the trick is to find the sweet spot.
I'm looking for a user-configurable pack that will allow a winter's load, but still be able to preferably shed some of its' compartments, or at least compress them into a smaller pack. I prefer shedding the components, and having the choice of adding them later on. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:06:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Where will you shed them to re use them
What your planning to do with it..is what will dictate your choice imho. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:38:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Kifaru EMR II pack bag + duplex frame if you want the absolute most compress/expandable.
The Timberline series is also pretty sweet but more geared towards hunting. I think that Kifaru offers a bit more options regarding styles/configs of pack bags. Also they're usually lighter than MR by 2-3 lbs. For example: MR 6500 = 10 lbs EMR II + frame = under 7 lbs I have a MR 3DAP, MR SATL, Kifaru ZXR and TL2. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:34:36 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I very much understand that ounces become pounds if one is not disciplined. That said, gossamer-light packs, no matter how well made will likely fail before stouter, heavier packs. the trick is to find the sweet spot. I'm looking for a user-configurable pack that will allow a winter's load, but still be able to preferably shed some of its' compartments, or at least compress them into a smaller pack. I prefer shedding the components, and having the choice of adding them later on. I understand completely what you are trying to do, I have worked pretty hard at accomplishing the same, although 90% of that capability was reached by using different packs. For example, my winter regular mission bag is an eberlestock X3 with 1000ci worth of side pouches added, for around 3000ci overall. My summer bag for the same type of mission is a SORD hydration pack at around 1200ci. Winter ruck, MR 6500, summer ruck, Eberlestock Terminator, etc. I keep them all packed similarly and have multiples of a lot of items to spread between them, such as snugpack sleeping bags or blankets, and common tools and gear. I keep kifaru pullouts with the things I dont keep multiples of for quick swaps between bags. I could potentially use my warhammer or crewcab for all of these situations and keep changing configurations, but for work I just set up mutliples. If I were attempting the same at home, I would change configs on the one. I am lucky enough to do this for a living and as such I get my hands on a lot of different packs either issued of extremely discounted. If I were paying out of pocket for everything it would probably be substantially different for me. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 11:46:32 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kifaru EMR II pack bag + duplex frame if you want the absolute most compress/expandable. The Timberline series is also pretty sweet but more geared towards hunting. I think that Kifaru offers a bit more options regarding styles/configs of pack bags. Also they're usually lighter than MR by 2-3 lbs. For example: MR 6500 = 10 lbs EMR II + frame = under 7 lbs I have a MR 3DAP, MR SATL, Kifaru ZXR and TL2. I have tried the duplex frame with the AMR one of our units got and it was pretty amazing. I do think its superior to comparable MR offerings,however most of the MR stuff is already 10-15 years old. The duplex frame is very comfortable and I was told its the same with armor, although I never wore it with armor on. The NICE frame with BVS stays work well with armor, ive used that a lot, but I think the kifaru is way more comfortable. With armor, I really cant stress enough the Mystery ranch chest strap. It locks the shoulder straps onto the armor front and stops them from sliding into your brachials. Its what the puny regular chest strap most packs have does, but meant for armor. It has a quick release built in with a snap to lock the release pull strap. i know MR was making them extra wide meant for IOTVs, if you are using it on a plate carrier you have to trim it down and sew a new end. I just modified mine to take plastic molle straps to be more durable. This is my modified chest strap on armor. 
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Posted: 2/22/2017 5:15:56 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I very much understand that ounces become pounds if one is not disciplined. That said, gossamer-light packs, no matter how well made will likely fail before stouter, heavier packs. the trick is to find the sweet spot. I'm looking for a user-configurable pack that will allow a winter's load, but still be able to preferably shed some of its' compartments, or at least compress them into a smaller pack. I prefer shedding the components, and having the choice of adding them later on. Then check out Mchale custome packs. He will build you a custom pack fit to your measurements, and he also offers the Plug and Go system so you can change the pack size. You can shorten the frame, get the smaller version of the packs down to around 3000 cu in, and carry 35 - 40 pounds easily. Not sure about the MOLLE/PALS compatibility, but he will customize so I'd just ask. They are expensive, but I've never used another pack that can compare. I own 3 of his packs. |
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Posted: 2/22/2017 7:33:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I very much understand that ounces become pounds if one is not disciplined. That said, gossamer-light packs, no matter how well made will likely fail before stouter, heavier packs. the trick is to find the sweet spot. I'm looking for a user-configurable pack that will allow a winter's load, but still be able to preferably shed some of its' compartments, or at least compress them into a smaller pack. I prefer shedding the components, and having the choice of adding them later on. I was going to suggest McHale packs as well...but pricing is similar to Kifaru. Versatility is good, but difficult to find a one-size-fits-all. I've pretty much settled on ULA packs for backpacking; I simply love the weight, features, simplicity and comfort. They are very sensitive to weight capacity, so they force your to really watch and manage your load weights. This really makes them a niche pack. I can use their Circuit pack for about 8-9 months out of the year here in GA, but for colder weather or if a bear-canister is needed, I have to use the largest Catalyst model. So, they lack versatility, but I would actually place them higher on the pack robustness-scale. I have the Cordura multicam model and despite being a "trail pack", they have been used off-trail and in some pretty rough conditions. They're not combat-packs, but with even a modicum of care and not treating it like a cheap whore, the packs will hold up better than most couch potatoes. ROCK6 |
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Posted: 2/23/2017 10:26:25 AM EDT
[#36]
Sounds like most has been covered, so I am just here to post a second for taking a look at Kelty and Slumberjack. Both have good offerings and are worth a look.
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Posted: 2/23/2017 11:52:40 AM EDT
[#37]
I have an Eberlestock M107 Dragonfly I have been using for years to haul elk, deer, and bear out of the mountains. I hike in with all my gear, unload and set up camp, then zip and shrink the pack down and use it as a day pack. I also have a Lowe Alpine Saracen where the side pouches zip off and then go back together to make a day pack. That might be hard to find though.
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Posted: 2/24/2017 9:36:00 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought my Kifaru Zulu around 2004. I am a professional "Roadie" aka concert touring lighting technician. I travel 200-300 days a year. I have used my Zulu daily for those approximately 3000 days. In and out of airports, planes, tour buses, arenas, and still going strong. If it ever dies, I will definitely get another. I got a marauder in 2004 and it's been to Iraq twice and 'stan once along with un-countable days in the field for both work and play (it's my goto huting pack). I've literally been trying to kill it for the last five years so I can get one in a cammo pattern but it doesn't even look worn yet other than some minor color fading. I have two Dana packs (the packs made by MR before he started MR), one from 2001 and one from 2002, that are my mountaineering packs and they've also held up great and have no intent of retiring either of those for quite some time although the smaller one's waterproof coating is starting to degrade I think it was too close to a heater one winter and got some ozone crap not a fault of the manufacturing IMHO. All that to say, you can't go wrong either way. My next pack will probably be a MR crewcab. |
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Posted: 2/24/2017 3:38:17 PM EDT
[#39]
I have had good luck with the Mystery Ranch Metcalf. For my needs it is the most usable pack for hunting, bug out ect. It fits my back very well. Thats the key for packs. Find the one that fits your body style. If it does not fit or feel comfortable, then all you will be is miserable when you us it.
You might go over to the Rokslide forum, its mostly a hunting forum, and check out the threads there on backpacks. They have some good info to sift thru. |
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Posted: 2/24/2017 5:06:05 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have had good luck with the Mystery Ranch Metcalf. For my needs it is the most usable pack for hunting, bug out ect. It fits my back very well. Thats the key for packs. Find the one that fits your body style. If it does not fit or feel comfortable, then all you will be is miserable when you us it. You might go over to the Rokslide forum, its mostly a hunting forum, and check out the threads there on backpacks. They have some good info to sift thru. |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 9:52:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Piggy backing off of this thread pun intended as I plan to head out west for a pack in / pack out hunt for Elk for my first time. Looking at the Eberlestock Dragonfly with the spike duffle for day scouting or the Kifaru EMR II but undecided on what I should go with.
Anybody got any opinions? 
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Posted: 3/8/2017 1:22:18 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Piggy backing off of this thread pun intended as I plan to head out west for a pack in / pack out hunt for Elk for my first time. Looking at the Eberlestock Dragonfly with the spike duffle for day scouting or the Kifaru EMR II but undecided on what I should go with. Anybody got any opinions? Hunting big game in the backcountry? You want a frame hauler... https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_2/684784_3-frame-hauler-packs----Alps-vs--Kelty-vs--Slumberjack.html Feel free to ask any questions on frame haulers, I will do my best to answer. |
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Posted: 3/8/2017 8:10:53 PM EDT
[#43]
Still researching. Also re-evaluating the possibility of modifying/upgrading my MOLLE II pack which is the later version with large single bag with separate sleeping bag compartment. With that, it might be possible to add a couple more sustainment pouches to the sides. If necessary, the assault pack can be attached to the dorsal side of the pack for smaller, frequently used items.
It's not the equal of most of the packs discussed here, but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. |
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Posted: 3/8/2017 8:57:12 PM EDT
[#44]
So i planned on buying the frame with the emr II as far as the dragonfly my assumption is that it came with an internal frame already or was I not reading that correctly on the website?
Ive heard people recommend the cabelas alaskan. Decent? Can do the svm giftcards + active junky + cabelas coupon. Planning on packing 65 ish lbs in 7-8 miles. If I harvest am animal will be packing what I can out. I was looking at both for their expandabity |
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Posted: 3/9/2017 7:13:34 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Still researching. Also re-evaluating the possibility of modifying/upgrading my MOLLE II pack which is the later version with large single bag with separate sleeping bag compartment. With that, it might be possible to add a couple more sustainment pouches to the sides. If necessary, the assault pack can be attached to the dorsal side of the pack for smaller, frequently used items. It's not the equal of most of the packs discussed here, but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The MOLLE Pack got a lot of things right, it's not as durable as the ALICE but much more comfortable. FWIW, I hate adding on the assault pack it's way to floppy no matter how tight you synch it down and it's a ton of weight for very little extra capacity. |
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Posted: 3/9/2017 4:59:46 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Still researching. Also re-evaluating the possibility of modifying/upgrading my MOLLE II pack which is the later version with large single bag with separate sleeping bag compartment. With that, it might be possible to add a couple more sustainment pouches to the sides. If necessary, the assault pack can be attached to the dorsal side of the pack for smaller, frequently used items. It's not the equal of most of the packs discussed here, but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Adding an assault pack to this setup really sucks. First, it sticks out too far and finally it shifts the COG away from your core which makes for an uncomfortable carry. I screwed around with a MOLLE2 pack (meh got one cheap). It's actually pretty nice for carrying heavy shit. Suspension system and weight distribution seem to work for me. With a couple of sustainment pouches you can actually lug around a surprising amount of crap. The downside is that it's heavy dry. For anything less than full on pack mule mode, I'd rather use my kelty. What I really really hated was strapping more crap on dorsally due to COG issues mentioned above. These days, if I am contemplating carrying that much gear I hit myself between the eyes with a ball peen hammer instead. |
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Posted: 3/9/2017 6:33:02 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Adding an assault pack to this setup really sucks. First, it sticks out too far and finally it shifts the COG away from your core which makes for an uncomfortable carry. I screwed around with a MOLLE2 pack (meh got one cheap). It's actually pretty nice for carrying heavy shit. Suspension system and weight distribution seem to work for me. With a couple of sustainment pouches you can actually lug around a surprising amount of crap. The downside is that it's heavy dry. For anything less than full on pack mule mode, I'd rather use my kelty. What I really really hated was strapping more crap on dorsally due to COG issues mentioned above. These days, if I am contemplating carrying that much gear I hit myself between the eyes with a ball peen hammer instead. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Still researching. Also re-evaluating the possibility of modifying/upgrading my MOLLE II pack which is the later version with large single bag with separate sleeping bag compartment. With that, it might be possible to add a couple more sustainment pouches to the sides. If necessary, the assault pack can be attached to the dorsal side of the pack for smaller, frequently used items. It's not the equal of most of the packs discussed here, but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Adding an assault pack to this setup really sucks. First, it sticks out too far and finally it shifts the COG away from your core which makes for an uncomfortable carry. I screwed around with a MOLLE2 pack (meh got one cheap). It's actually pretty nice for carrying heavy shit. Suspension system and weight distribution seem to work for me. With a couple of sustainment pouches you can actually lug around a surprising amount of crap. The downside is that it's heavy dry. For anything less than full on pack mule mode, I'd rather use my kelty. What I really really hated was strapping more crap on dorsally due to COG issues mentioned above. These days, if I am contemplating carrying that much gear I hit myself between the eyes with a ball peen hammer instead. In any event, some add-on compression straps like this: Mystery Ranch Compression Strap might serve to compress the MOLLE II into a smaller envelope. At $5 a pop, I can hardly make them for less. I figure on attaching them to the frame, and folding-in the sides of the pack with the sustainment pouches and such attached, leaving the middle of the pack available for loading. Granted it won't lighten the pack ensemble itself, but most of the packs suggested above are not exactly gossamer-light either. Just thinking aloud, so to speak, and suggestions are welcome. |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 7:55:37 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Adding an assault pack to this setup really sucks. First, it sticks out too far and finally it shifts the COG away from your core which makes for an uncomfortable carry. I love the concept, but there are two concerns that you need to address. My EMR has a "piggy-backed" Kifaru Scout. If the Scout is fully loaded, it does affect your center of gravity. On the flip side, most attached secondary packs need to almost empty to avoid that COG affect; so in the mind, they're aren't a quick garb-and-go type pack. Of course weight is always a concern, but I do like the idea of a secondary or patrol pack. I've even used the very compact and light Sea-to-Summit 20L pack as an option. For me, these secondary packs are best used after establishing a camp for extended patrols, scouting, foraging, hunting, etc. I've just accepted they aren't a ready-to-go pack, but more of an empty, smaller/lighter option for other activities when I know I'll have some sort of base camp. Just another consideration as you build out your kit. ROCK6 |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 11:37:56 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love the concept, but there are two concerns that you need to address. My EMR has a "piggy-backed" Kifaru Scout. If the Scout is fully loaded, it does affect your center of gravity. On the flip side, most attached secondary packs need to almost empty to avoid that COG affect; so in the mind, they're aren't a quick garb-and-go type pack. Of course weight is always a concern, but I do like the idea of a secondary or patrol pack. I've even used the very compact and light Sea-to-Summit 20L pack as an option. For me, these secondary packs are best used after establishing a camp for extended patrols, scouting, foraging, hunting, etc. I've just accepted they aren't a ready-to-go pack, but more of an empty, smaller/lighter option for other activities when I know I'll have some sort of base camp. Just another consideration as you build out your kit. ROCK6 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Adding an assault pack to this setup really sucks. First, it sticks out too far and finally it shifts the COG away from your core which makes for an uncomfortable carry. I love the concept, but there are two concerns that you need to address. My EMR has a "piggy-backed" Kifaru Scout. If the Scout is fully loaded, it does affect your center of gravity. On the flip side, most attached secondary packs need to almost empty to avoid that COG affect; so in the mind, they're aren't a quick garb-and-go type pack. Of course weight is always a concern, but I do like the idea of a secondary or patrol pack. I've even used the very compact and light Sea-to-Summit 20L pack as an option. For me, these secondary packs are best used after establishing a camp for extended patrols, scouting, foraging, hunting, etc. I've just accepted they aren't a ready-to-go pack, but more of an empty, smaller/lighter option for other activities when I know I'll have some sort of base camp. Just another consideration as you build out your kit. ROCK6 I use a Blackhawk stash pack for this exact purpose much of the time when outdoors. It takes up very little room and serves as functional day pack. IF I am on a hunting trip I will usually move to more of a day-hunting pack or waste pack... Most of the time when in the backcountry hunting my main pack is usually a frame hauler when allows for a different style of organization and attaching things. Ether way I found that trying to attach them while full usually doesn't work. If it can fit in the main compartment or ride alongside the other gear full then that's no issue, but every time I try to "hang" it off the back it never works. For some reason I still try to do it?
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Posted: 4/7/2017 5:57:59 PM EDT
[#50]
OK, What I decided to do is buy this: London Bridge 8-Pocket Pack. The included ALICE frame can be replaced with a DownEast USMC/Airborne frame which is intended to be a direct replacement for the ALICE frame, and is both lighter, stronger, and hard-armor compatible. I have one of these on my Lg ALICE Hellcat pack.
The pack body is approximately the size of a Large ALICE pack and it has six exterior pockets that each approximate the size of the three, large exterior pockets on the ALICE. IOW, twice the external pocket capacity. The detachable lid of the pack can be used as a very small capacity day pack, and will accept a MOLLE Claymore/Utility pouch (on-hand). The PALS webbing on the sides of the pack will accept up to four MOLLE Sustainment pouches. or other pouches. The top of the pack has multiple zippers, so quick access to stuff inside the top of the pack body is do-able. The interior of the pack has the expected radio pouch, so rigging an internal water bladder is easy to do. The bottom of the pack can be adapted to accept a MOLLE I Modular sleep system carrier in winter, or a MOLLE waist pack in warmer seasons. The shoulder straps seem to be more than adequately made, and anchored, but they lack load-lifter straps. The OEM waist belt might be a weak point, and I will aggressively address this possible issue if necessary. There is a horizontal, internal divider inside the pack which, when laced-up, creates a sleeping bag compartment in the lower portion of the pack. The lower portion of the pack is accessible via its' own zipper. While the pack has two vertical and four side compression straps, I might add some additional Mystery Ranch compression straps to manage the overall pack body as well as the various pockets. At $5 a pop, they are certainly affordable. In sum, the pack is extremely configurable, well-made, has a lifetime warranty, and I believe it will suit my needs when modified with items on-hand, and the store-bought compression straps. I don't think it will be Perfect, but chasing perfection, and expecting to find it is a fool's goal, IMHO. It's satisfying to at least get close, I think. In the event that the OEM belt or shoulder straps need to be replaced with a better equivalents, intended for heavy load-carrying, I'd be obliged for suggestions on such waist belts and shoulder straps which are easily adaptable to the ALICE platform. Such items ought to transfer to the DE frame all right. The DownEast DE Padset seems rather decent, is guaranteed to fit the intended DE MC/AB plastic frame, and is available in multicam. I plan on contacting them to see if it can be had without the frame, which I already have. Your comments are most welcome. |
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