What's the deal with batoning or pounding the crud out of a knife to split wood? I just don't understand why guys feel they need to pound on a knife and split wood, if you really think you need to split wood why not carry a hatchet. I spent 20 years working in the woods and started many a fire without using a knife or hatchet to prep wood as most camping type fires just don't require large logs and even then a large dry log will burn just fine if smaller material is added to keep the flames going. About the only time a knife is required to start a fire is when things are wet then the knife is used to peal back the bark and maybe some of the outer layers of wood to get to some dry wood that can be shaved off and used as tinder.

So is batoning used to make up for lack of fire starting knowledge / experience or is it just something the cool kids are doing?

Maybe it's like showing up to a gun fight with a .380.  If you knew you were showing up for a gunfight wouldn't you already have a semi-auto rifle and full size service pistol?  And yet people are sometimes involved in gunfights with .380; go figure.

I'm with you on this completely. I have been backpacking for well over a decade, have a B.S. in Outdoor Leadership and am a professional guide. I carry a Benchmade Mini Grip on my trips and have never really had cause for anything larger. I see guys on here or BladeForums advertising "camp knives" that are these big fixed blades, or looking for what group of blades to take on a trip. What the hell are these people doing with knives? Someone is working WAY too hard to accomplish the tasks they need done in the woods.

I use batoning often when building a fire.  Much more precise kindling that using a hatchet or ax.  I can shave a chunk of wood down to nice thin slivers.

This is during simple camping trips not rough and tumble SHTF and its almost therapeutic.  Slowly building the pile of kindling...

Don't hate me because I'm lame...

See I don't use a hatchet or an ax either. If you start with the correctly sized tinder and then moved to kindling and then to finger sized stuff for cooking, then the larger stuff for the social fire after the meal, you never need a blade to start a fire. I don't think I ever use one unless I am making a feathered end to use as tinder if I was unable to find anything that small. I pick up everything I need off the ground though and the only breaking that's done can be against my knee or maybe against a tree in the case of something larger.

Also, I don't think I have ever willingly gone on a "rough and tumble SHTF" trip. That just doesn't sound enjoyable until the day I need it.

i would imagine there are times or places where you cannot find all the tinder/kindle/starter size dry wood that you need, so that is when bush skills like batoning is useful

but also, it is just basic woodworking which many people find enjoyable

so while i agree that it isnt as vital as YouTube makes it seem, it is a useful skill to possess and idc if you over use it...

Neither.  The idea is preparedness.  You may not have a hatchet, especially if you do serious hikes through step terrain.  For such backpacking trips you are limited in both weight and volume- you can only carry so much weight and there is only so much room in or on your pack.  So for hikers at least, we try to carry items that have multiple purposes.  

A good knife is far more useful in multiple roles than a hatchet, so the hatchet stays home and the knife goes along.  If I need a fire (and most backpackers don't bother) then I can use the knife to process bigger wood than it was designed for by batonning.  Up here in the PNW it's a lot harder to make and sustain a fire than maybe it is in Utah.  If you find yourself in a situation where you need a fire, then it's probably raining or damp.  Up here, you don't find wood on the ground for burning- if it's on the ground it's totally rotten and wet through.  So you have to look for standing dead-wood and that supply is very limited.  We do a few practice sessions in real-world conditions- so in the drizzle and when it's cold; and we found it's a LOT harder to make fire than TV or internet heroes portray.  You can easily work yourself into a sweat just gathering and preparing, at which point you've lost interest in fire.  Seriously, the next time you're in a rain forest, try building a fire- NOT so easy!  

I will occasionally carry a hatchet on short dayhikes.  My pack isn't as loaded down so I count the weight of the axe as training weight for long dayhikes or backpacking trips.

Its no different then 45 vs 9.

Is it a necessary skill? no.  Could it be a useful skill? yes.

I am a fan of the right tool for the job.  If I want to split wood, I use an axe or hatchet...  Or in the case of heating my home I use a gas powered hydraulic wood splitter.  

It is also a good test to a blades strength.  I have done it a few times, its not rocket science, and where I really find it useful is with building a bow drill set for friction fire.

Is friction fire practical? no.  Not if you have a lighter or ferro rod.  Could it be a useful skill? yes.

Battoning can be precise vs an axe, and if your using an axe or hatchet properly, they to can be precise.

There is not problem finding tinder in my AO so I don't think I would ever need to batton anything for the purpose of starting a fire.

ETA/ the biggest knife I every carry is a Condor Bushlore.  Its about as thick or as large as I would ever have a reason to carry in my AO.  Obviously those down south or in the jungle might want a machete but for me, this is as large as I go:





I am putting that blade through its paces this year.  So far I like it, and while a little on the heavy side for me, its very stout.

Not sure if I would fall in line with those suggesting a small folder is all you ever need.  I would like at least a Mora #1 Classic and Leatherman as minimalist gear.
Processed a many of whitetail with a Mora #1.  Fleshed several hides to.  I would pretty much recommend any Mora as long as the price doesn't surpass $20.
I am not a through hiker though.  I go camping to camp or hunt, not to hike.

Well considering I have started fires in the woods from the Canadian border to the Mexican border in every State West of the Rocky's (except California which I am proud to say I have never set foot in) as well as a few State the other side of the Rocky's I have never found a need to split wood. I guess I got lucky on the Washington and Oregon coast since I was able to find dry tinder to start a fire even in the rain.

While I always had to carry a hatchet it nor a knife was used to prep wood for fires, the hatchet was used to pound aluminum nails into trees and chop around trying to identify rot or other bugs and crud.

Don't even get me started on serious hikes or packing weight, the things guys post on this forum about what they carry just makes me shake my head. Try packing 50+ pounds of steel Forestry equipment and fitting enough food and necessity's in a backpack to live in the back country for 5 days. Last time I carried a work pack was in Yellowstone National Park doing field work and my pack loaded for 5 days of cross country hiking through the fire blow down and dog hair regeneration thickets was 85 pounds. Had a young new to the job kid one time ask me where the trail head was when we parked the work truck and where getting our packs on, I told him the trail head was where ever the back of my pack was at to keep some distance between his face and the back of my pack so he didn't take a branch in his teeth. I'm much older now but I can still pack 1/2 an Elk out in one shot though I pay for it for a week or so after.

A knife is very useful to find dry tinder inside wood in wet conditions.  Batoning is far safer done right than a hatchet.

What I've always wondered is where do guys that baton so much find all these pieces of wood that have been cut with a saw in the woods?

You baton through the wood making cuts like you would a hatchet. It's super easy and doesn't beat up the knife at all if you aren't a simpleton.  You can tap that knife right through cross grain with a bit of angle to pop out the chips as you work.

What he said.

I can get along just fine with a 6-10 oz knife and a 7 oz Bacho Laplander saw, or even a 3 oz bow saw blade and leave the 2-4 lb axe at home and still get stuff done.

As noted above you can just pick up tinder for only about half the year around here. That means a lot of wood processing to get a fire going.

I also like the precision you can get when batoning if I'm making something out of wood.

It's also a lot more controllable and thus safer in low light.

That said, it I'm KNOW I'm going to be needing a lot of wood processed for whatever I'll take an ax as well.

Play on youtube and mess around looking for old fashioned furniture making stuff.  The home made backwoods ways of making furniture.



Brute force is what a lot of folks think a knife should handle.



Finesse gets things built and if I need brute force then I should probably be making a tool to make the job simpler and easier.



I am not of a mind that one knife will do everything, but it might come close if you really want to make a bag for doing everything you think you will ever need to do.



A small 3 or 4 inch fixed blade that is thin enough for use in the kitchen is my most used knife.  It handles everyday chores with no issues.



As much as I do have all sorts of big knives and what not, everyday knife is smallish and even when on arfcom campouts I can't recall bringing out anything monstrous because it was not going to be used in day to day stuff.

You could simply forgo batoning with a knife if you have this knife...

Want. Bad.

Dont see a need, then don't and move on.  

I have done it a few times to get  the fire  going quicker.  


But I didn't really need to do it.


Who knows, it may come in handy one day.

I am not a very experienced outdoorsman, but when I saw all the youtube videos on batoning I thought why not pack a light folding saw?

Saws work great for cross cutting but not too well going with the grain and splitting.  Say you want a small fire and have a 4" downed tree.  Saw is great for cutting rounds but not so good in splitting that up.

I have done it with an RTAK II, and it's really not very efficient. One school of thought is you can carry a large knife that can do a lot more than a small hatchet. I see the logic, and agree with it in practice... For the most part.

However, after tearing up my RTAK II on knotty pine, I did some more research and found this video:





And I think this really did put everything into perspective for me. The truth is, it's a tool box, and you need to pick the right tools for the job. Knowing and understanding proper baton techniques is a very handy skill, and you'll learn a lot about it after a mere hour of trashing your big blades. Dumping the hatchet and carrying a large knife has it's place when weight savings is an absolute necessity, because the large knife CAN do more than a hatchet. It is better to use to dig a pit or shave branches from logs, it is an easier weapon to use, it is arguably safer than a hatchet, and large knife is just all-around handier. The biggest problem with a large knife when using a baton technique is the vibrations hurt, but that can be solved with a pair of gloves.

The hatchet, however, is more specialized and, frankly, better at it's intended job with practice. I can not stress that last part enough, because there is a higher learning curve to using an axe or hatchet properly.

Just pick the right tool. Both have their uses: Knife is handier and has more general utility, axe is more specialized and better with skill.

In a survival situation, I wouldn't split or saw wood. I'd burn the least I could to accomplish my goal, which will probably be pieces small enough to break with leverage.

In a camping situation? Sure, I like a saw to help making fallen dead wood smaller to move toward camp. If it's a long trip, a small axe would be handy.


I wouldn't think any type of wood processing tools would be required, though.


I should be clear, though, that living in AL means I have a TON of deadwood everywhere.

We often need to open up wood to get to dry. Once you have a hot fire going it will sustain itself and dry new wood out.

 
I would imagine it would be worse in the winter for you.


Down here, dry wood can be found during any time of year, even when it's raining.


That being said, we will dry wood by the fire as well, but never open it up. I'm sure opening it up would dry it faster though.

A lot of my dry tinder comes from inside a piece of wood. You can split it and then make feather sticks and scrapings to take a spark with the dry wood inside.

I don’t understand the controversy and opinionated vehemence against one of a multitude of techniques.  What is more of a travesty than the knife-baton controversy is that ones’ experience creates a closed-minded view to different skills.  Battening a blade is just a technique, not a requirement nor is it a necessity.

Yes, I’ve done it but it’s always been limited and for smaller pieces, mostly to access the dryer inner wood when the surrounding area is soaked. I've also used it to create smaller pieces for my Emberlit stove...more of anal than necessity as well.  I don’t advocate the extreme abusive battening seen on several videos where a large knife is being pounded through a 6” log that is four feet long…that is absurd.  As already mentioned, you only need enough dry wood to get a good base and bed of coals going and then you can just about anything without processing.

Another aspect is that I’ve used a knife to batten through a piece of wood to create base-board for a fire bow/drill set.  Not that I would routinely do it, but you can batten a smaller (stoutly built) knife to take down larger saplings…again, one of numerous techniques. Have you ever built bamboo furniture?  I was pretty amazed how a machete could be used with a baton to construct several types of structures with bamboo.  

I’m of the opinion that people will use the techniques they are comfortable with or have worked well for them over the years.  However, I also believe you should be open-minded as there is too much knowledge available these days and something may just actually be a more efficient method under the right circumstances.  If anything, learning something new just broadens the perspective and sharpens the mind.  If you want to be crotchety, cantankerous and call a certain skill or technique stupid, that’s your opinion, I much rather subscribe to the opinion that even with proper planning you might not have the right tool or be in the right circumstances to perform your typical or routine cutting tasks.  Options are good and what’s even better, the more options, the easier it is to choose what works best for you.  I do wonder if the “big knife” crowd developed the technique because they didn’t have a splitting chopper like an axe…again, it’s just a technique not a requirement for the outdoors or even survival.

ROCK6  

Every time I've batoned wood with a Mora I barely had to hit it. Light tapping was all it took. You don't need to beat the shit out of a knife to baton. Use your head.

Using RAT4 I've baton'd many times using another good sized (for one hand hold) piece of wood.  I couldn't hit the knife hard enough with wood to damage it.  Knife cleans up like new....well, not new but no serious damage.

Are some using metal rod or a rock?!?!

Possibly they have rocks in their heads?

So very true.  

Because I like my pudgy digits.  I've not found too many flat end pieces of wood out in the woods to sit nicely on another flat end round so I can break wood down.  Batoning reduces my risk of a severe injury.

Was camping with a friend who had spent much of his youth on his own camping and traveling.  He taught me a lot, when getting fire materials gathered he would find dry wood, if too long he would prop up on a log or rock and break wood down in length by breaking with a rock (big rock, like 40-50 pund size).  For tinder he would lay dry wood on big rock and pulverise with another rock.  This all takes just a few seconds if everthing needed is close at hand.  Way faster than me whittling.  

All my friend had to drive was a beat up 2wd chevy truck.  When he got stuck he'd tell me "time to rock in the hubs" and we'd start loading the bed up with rocks,  500 pounds of rocks gives you a lot more traction.  Probably not right for all situations but it worked good when it did.

I'm in the west (Colorado),  lots of rocks most places.

Shaneus

Good old boys are very ingenuitive.(sp?)

Just got back from camping and used my Becker BK-16 heavily to process kindling. Took it like a champ.