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Posted: 4/26/2015 8:20:26 AM EDT
[#1]
What situations do you think would require you to rappel? There are some out there for cliffs I would recommend some things, for overly steep terrain I would recommend something else, and for building evac it would be something else.
ETA: I was a member of a mountain rescue team for over 6 years and worked extensively with ski patrol...we weren't allowed to carry figure 8's on either team. |
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Posted: 4/26/2015 8:31:13 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Working on integrating some rope into my survival paradigm. I'm looking for a compact descender device. I currently have a rescue 8 rated for 45kn. Been looking at this as a compact item that can be easily carried. However I noted this device is rated at 14kn. I am 240lbs without my gear, and potentially push 300 with it. I know the tensile strength is close to 3100lbs, but that does not account for dynamic work loads. Anyone have insight into an appropriate minimum strength for a descender? You may have to engage SMC on specifics, but I do have the Escape-8 in my travel kit. For me, it's really just an emergency device to escape hotel rooms when I'm above the second floor. I wouldn't want this for anything except that one-time use or repeated requirements. Still, I would be interested in feedback on the longevity and actually repeated use of the smaller Escape-8 as well. ROCK6 |
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Posted: 4/26/2015 12:28:48 PM EDT
[#3]
I detest figure 8s for rappelling. They're passable as a belay device although I prefer the tubular style to an 8, or better yet a GriGri. I haven't used a Petzl Reverso or any of the other newer types of devices.
Some will depend on what rope you are going to use. Some devices are more suitable for certain types of rope than others. Petzl Stop or the stripped down "Simple" models are pretty good rappel devices, if I had something pre-rigged for a rappel escape setup that's probably what I would have preinstalled on the rope. |
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Posted: 4/26/2015 1:08:54 PM EDT
[#4]
I haven't used mine in several
years, but ATC's are quick to rig, and so easy a caveman like me can do it! 
John 
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Posted: 4/26/2015 2:51:24 PM EDT
[#5]
I have only done 10-15 rappels, so I am not super experienced.
I am currently set up to use my 'Big' Rescue 8, but I also have an ATC, I have done more Rappels with the ATC, but The two longest Rappels(90' and 100') I did with a friend's Rescue 8. I liked the smooth Rappel of the '8' so a picked one up. I don't have any rope, but I have ordered some 9.5mm static rope. Rock6 was on to my query though, is this type of descender a one time use deal? If so it would probably be a dealbreaker, I need something I can train with and become proficient with. I understand gear wears but I am looking for some longevity as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
You may have to engage SMC on specifics, but I do have the Escape-8 in my travel kit. For me, it's really just an emergency device to escape hotel rooms when I'm above the second floor. I wouldn't want this for anything except that one-time use or repeated requirements. Still, I would be interested in feedback on the longevity and actually repeated use of the smaller Escape-8 as well. ROCK6 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Working on integrating some rope into my survival paradigm. I'm looking for a compact descender device. I currently have a rescue 8 rated for 45kn. Been looking at this as a compact item that can be easily carried. However I noted this device is rated at 14kn. I am 240lbs without my gear, and potentially push 300 with it. I know the tensile strength is close to 3100lbs, but that does not account for dynamic work loads. Anyone have insight into an appropriate minimum strength for a descender? You may have to engage SMC on specifics, but I do have the Escape-8 in my travel kit. For me, it's really just an emergency device to escape hotel rooms when I'm above the second floor. I wouldn't want this for anything except that one-time use or repeated requirements. Still, I would be interested in feedback on the longevity and actually repeated use of the smaller Escape-8 as well. ROCK6 I guess I'll shoot SMC an Email. Does anyone know how a Kilonewton rating translates into safe working loads in pounds? |
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Posted: 4/26/2015 3:15:55 PM EDT
[#6]
I use a 6 bar rack with hyperbar for caving. Might not be sexy but I can rappel with another person hanging off me and pass knots easily.
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Posted: 4/26/2015 9:00:27 PM EDT
[#7]
That little guy isn't a one time use deal, but it's not designed to be used repeatedly. It's not about the strength of the component, it's that it's designed as a last ditch get the hell out of dodge and down. It's small and fast, it'll light your hand on fire and you won't have much control. It'll get you out of a building alive, but it's not designed to do more than that.
The easiest thing would be an ATC. You can use it single or double line, it's small and lightweight if your other figure 8 is too big. Just out of curiosity, why did you buy a big rescue 8? For sport climbing, rappelling, and belaying, you're not often locking off, nor worried about a situation where it would slip into a girth hitch. A smaller sport 8 would probably be more appropriate for your desires and skill level. Or go the whole nine yards and grab an I'D, and ASAP with an Absorbica, a Croll, an Ascentree and a couple etriers and be ready for any situation. Probably also a Protraxion and another couple wheels for setting up hauling systems, although I'm more partial to the Rock Exotica stuff. |
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Posted: 4/27/2015 4:22:20 AM EDT
[#8]
So I got the rescue 8, because I thought it was neat. I really came to like the figure 8 type descender after my longer rappels, I liked how smooth the rappel felt, but I selected the Rescue 8 cause it had a high kn rating and I thought it was cool.
As far as the "escape 8" goes, I am considering it for it's compact nature. Something I can take with me easily and carry a fair amount of small diameter rope for as a compact adition to a survival or shtf kit. I want to be able to test/practice with gear in that role. For sport and recreation I can see it would be quite a bit less useful. |
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Posted: 4/27/2015 9:29:44 AM EDT
[#9]
I don't mind figure 8s, especially with ears, but prefer an ATC or a rappel rack. The ATC is one of the the smallest and lightest choices. Whatever you choose make damn sure you know how to use it before you put your life on the line and this includes putting a knot in the end of your rope- way too many people, including very experienced climbers, have been killed rappelling. I lost a friend about ten years ago when he rappelled off the end of his rope; a very experienced guy who just made a mistake on that particular day.
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Posted: 4/28/2015 1:52:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As far as the "escape 8" goes, I am considering it for it's compact nature. Something I can take with me easily and carry a fair amount of small diameter rope for as a compact adition to a survival or shtf kit. I want to be able to test/practice with gear in that role. For sport and recreation I can see it would be quite a bit less useful. Just get a regular sport climbing figure 8. Again, it's a last ditch device for people getting out of burning buildings, a normal 8 from any climbing store will be more than adequate and compact enough. I know you want a cool gadget, but they suck, and really are a last ditch device. |
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Posted: 4/28/2015 3:54:28 PM EDT
[#11]
Wondering what is wrong with a couple loops on a locking carabiner? For minimalist rig.
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Posted: 4/28/2015 8:39:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wondering what is wrong with a couple loops on a locking carabiner? For minimalist rig. Typically spinning as you descend. Definitely an option though. Big fan of the Petzl I'D 
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Posted: 4/28/2015 10:20:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wondering what is wrong with a couple loops on a locking carabiner? For minimalist rig. Because it's not as cool as an 8....although arguably more friction and cotrol...and adjustable to the load. ATCs are the only way to go unless you are doing several hundred feet and you're going fast, you can get a carabiner hit enough to melt through your rope as you break. But you probably wont care because you wont have any gloves or hands left either 
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Posted: 4/29/2015 1:27:56 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use a 6 bar rack This is really the premium tool for rappelling, but they're useless for belaying. Somewhere I seem to remember seeing a smaller size one that was made for the small diameter climbing ropes and thinking that would be an interesting option for an escape setup with small diameter static rope. |
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Posted: 4/30/2015 10:48:54 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wondering what is wrong with a couple loops on a locking carabiner? For minimalist rig. That's all we ever used. Just a simple locking "D" and a Swiss seat. |
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Posted: 4/30/2015 6:16:00 PM EDT
[#16]
40 years ago I used a Sky Genie. I wondered if they were still around, so I googled it. Sure enough still going strong and essentially the same device as way back when. So, that pretty much means it has stood the test of time.
Sky Genie |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:23:48 PM EDT
[#17]
How did you do that with the link?
John Quote HistoryQuoted:
40 years ago I used a Sky Genie. I wondered if they were still around, so I googled it. Sure enough still going strong and essentially the same device as way back when. So, that pretty much means it has stood the test of time. Sky Genie |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 11:33:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is really the premium tool for rappelling, but they're useless for belaying. Somewhere I seem to remember seeing a smaller size one that was made for the small diameter climbing ropes and thinking that would be an interesting option for an escape setup with small diameter static rope. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I use a 6 bar rack This is really the premium tool for rappelling, but they're useless for belaying. Somewhere I seem to remember seeing a smaller size one that was made for the small diameter climbing ropes and thinking that would be an interesting option for an escape setup with small diameter static rope. Useless is a pretty strong word. I've been belayed by someone with a rack many times. In caves, mostly. |
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Posted: 5/3/2015 12:50:11 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wondering what is wrong with a couple loops on a locking carabiner? For minimalist rig. That is a really bad idea. Read this book and you'll understand why. On Rope Essentially, carabiners aren't designed for that kind of use. You're dancing with the devil when you push the boundaries of what equipment is designed for. Especially when your life is literally on the line. |
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Posted: 5/9/2015 11:11:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is a really bad idea. Read this book and you'll understand why. On Rope Essentially, carabiners aren't designed for that kind of use. You're dancing with the devil when you push the boundaries of what equipment is designed for. Especially when your life is literally on the line. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wondering what is wrong with a couple loops on a locking carabiner? For minimalist rig. That is a really bad idea. Read this book and you'll understand why. On Rope Essentially, carabiners aren't designed for that kind of use. You're dancing with the devil when you push the boundaries of what equipment is designed for. Especially when your life is literally on the line. Can you give the Reader's Digest version of why a Munter hitch isn't at least worth considering for emergency descent? I'm not an experienced alpinist, but do have a couple harnesses, rope, and basic racks of gear with an ATC/fig 8/runner/set of small chocks, and a couple moldy instruction books like Freedom of the Hills. For the record, I'm way rusty to the point of being considered a beginner all over again. My CMI figure 8 rode all the way to the ground with me when I did a testosterone-fueled scorching descent on a first date with a girl who liked climbing. We never went on a second date, but I got a date with an X-Ray machine and some crutches. It was completely operator error, doing an abseil that was way too fast and attempting braking way too late on a dynamic rope. I'll own that. I was 18 or 19 and wanted to impress a girl who was not impressed by Wile E. Coyote.  Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 5/10/2015 1:07:05 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you give the Reader's Digest version of why a Munter hitch isn't at least worth considering for emergency descent? I'm not an experienced alpinist, but do have a couple harnesses, rope, and basic racks of gear with an ATC/fig 8/runner/set of small chocks, and a couple moldy instruction books like Freedom of the Hills. For the record, I'm way rusty to the point of being considered a beginner all over again. My CMI figure 8 rode all the way to the ground with me when I did a testosterone-fueled scorching descent on a first date with a girl who liked climbing. We never went on a second date, but I got a date with an X-Ray machine and some crutches. It was completely operator error, doing an abseil that was way too fast and attempting braking way too late on a dynamic rope. I'll own that. I was 18 or 19 and wanted to impress a girl who was not impressed by Wile E. Coyote.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wondering what is wrong with a couple loops on a locking carabiner? For minimalist rig. That is a really bad idea. Read this book and you'll understand why. On Rope Essentially, carabiners aren't designed for that kind of use. You're dancing with the devil when you push the boundaries of what equipment is designed for. Especially when your life is literally on the line. Can you give the Reader's Digest version of why a Munter hitch isn't at least worth considering for emergency descent? I'm not an experienced alpinist, but do have a couple harnesses, rope, and basic racks of gear with an ATC/fig 8/runner/set of small chocks, and a couple moldy instruction books like Freedom of the Hills. For the record, I'm way rusty to the point of being considered a beginner all over again. My CMI figure 8 rode all the way to the ground with me when I did a testosterone-fueled scorching descent on a first date with a girl who liked climbing. We never went on a second date, but I got a date with an X-Ray machine and some crutches. It was completely operator error, doing an abseil that was way too fast and attempting braking way too late on a dynamic rope. I'll own that. I was 18 or 19 and wanted to impress a girl who was not impressed by Wile E. Coyote.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile could have been worse 
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Posted: 5/13/2015 4:19:49 PM EDT
[#22]
New England Ropes Micro Rappel system.
I keep one in my third floor office. |
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Posted: 5/13/2015 5:29:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
New England Ropes Micro Rappel system. I keep one in my third floor office. That would sure beat trying to do a dulfersitz down the side of the building.
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Posted: 5/16/2015 11:19:19 PM EDT
[#24]
If others are looking for different types of decenders check out the Sterling Rope F4.
Works well and is very compact. |
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Posted: 5/18/2015 11:57:45 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you give the Reader's Digest version of why a Munter hitch isn't at least worth considering for emergency descent? I'm not an experienced alpinist, but do have a couple harnesses, rope, and basic racks of gear with an ATC/fig 8/runner/set of small chocks, and a couple moldy instruction books like Freedom of the Hills. For the record, I'm way rusty to the point of being considered a beginner all over again. My CMI figure 8 rode all the way to the ground with me when I did a testosterone-fueled scorching descent on a first date with a girl who liked climbing. We never went on a second date, but I got a date with an X-Ray machine and some crutches. It was completely operator error, doing an abseil that was way too fast and attempting braking way too late on a dynamic rope. I'll own that. I was 18 or 19 and wanted to impress a girl who was not impressed by Wile E. Coyote.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wondering what is wrong with a couple loops on a locking carabiner? For minimalist rig. That is a really bad idea. Read this book and you'll understand why. On Rope Essentially, carabiners aren't designed for that kind of use. You're dancing with the devil when you push the boundaries of what equipment is designed for. Especially when your life is literally on the line. Can you give the Reader's Digest version of why a Munter hitch isn't at least worth considering for emergency descent? I'm not an experienced alpinist, but do have a couple harnesses, rope, and basic racks of gear with an ATC/fig 8/runner/set of small chocks, and a couple moldy instruction books like Freedom of the Hills. For the record, I'm way rusty to the point of being considered a beginner all over again. My CMI figure 8 rode all the way to the ground with me when I did a testosterone-fueled scorching descent on a first date with a girl who liked climbing. We never went on a second date, but I got a date with an X-Ray machine and some crutches. It was completely operator error, doing an abseil that was way too fast and attempting braking way too late on a dynamic rope. I'll own that. I was 18 or 19 and wanted to impress a girl who was not impressed by Wile E. Coyote.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Ahh youth. I tried to single bound off a 40 ft tower in college. I was lucky and didn't hit too hard. SSGt walked over and suggested I not try it again. |
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Posted: 5/18/2015 7:05:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's all we ever used. Just a simple locking "D" and a Swiss seat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wondering what is wrong with a couple loops on a locking carabiner? For minimalist rig. That's all we ever used. Just a simple locking "D" and a Swiss seat. This, less gear and less weight... if you really need to be doing it you won't be worried about a belay man either. |
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Posted: 5/21/2015 11:03:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I haven't used mine in several years, but ATC's are quick to rig, and so easy a caveman like me can do it!
John http://www.rei.com/zoom/jj/afdee408-6aa1-4fd5-8820-516023829d48.jpg/440 this or a munter hitch and carabiner I've used a munter from rock climbing to Rainier for both belaying and rapping 
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Posted: 5/21/2015 11:54:58 PM EDT
[#28]
I've used the ATC's to belay lots of times, and rappel exactly once. The aluminum for so hot it burned my hands when I tried to remove it from my harness. I've had good luck with figure 8's.
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Posted: 5/22/2015 12:24:43 AM EDT
[#29]
Lowe Tuber. Great for belay, OK for rappel, super light and compact.
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Posted: 5/25/2015 9:09:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Ger a Trango Pyramid. It's like the ATC, but you can rotate it for varied friction. I also like the Metolius BRD. I don't know if either are still made.
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Posted: 5/25/2015 9:20:18 PM EDT
[#31]
im probably retarded but whats a kn? kilo newton or something?
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Posted: 5/25/2015 10:06:56 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
im probably retarded but whats a kn? kilo newton or something? Yeah. Like 244 pounds or something. Google knows. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:14:37 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't used mine in several years, but ATC's are quick to rig, and so easy a caveman like me can do it! John http://www.rei.com/zoom/jj/afdee408-6aa1-4fd5-8820-516023829d48.jpg/440 |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:42:11 AM EDT
[#34]
And you only need one carabiner |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:46:31 AM EDT
[#35]
Black Diamond XTC
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