I've always wanted to get the USAF survival knife ever since I was a kid.

which to get - camillus or ontario? any differences between the two?

a little research shows that many users feel that the knife has been cheapened over the years.

dull blades, uneven finish, shoddy leather sheath, etc. even heard the leather tie down has been replaced with shoe laces.

so, any advice on these brands or are they just a waste of money?

thanks.

ETA: I don't think Camillus makes that knife anymore...

IMO those knives aren't very good as survival knives.  

I would prefer a smaller knife (Moras are a great, low cost alternative to high end knives) along with a folding saw and maybe a small ax or hatchet.  

If I was headed out to a survival or potential survival situation, my first choice would be a multi tool such as a Leatherman Wave.  My second choice would be a small, fixed blade knife like the Mora or similar.

Those knives are military issue, which means that they are mass produced and cheaply made.The steel is typical- poor grade, doesn't hold an edge. Older ones like the one my dad used in nam as a pilot have some collector value, but they really aren't that good of a knife. If I had one, I would just sharpen it up the best I could and keep it in my truck. If you want a decent survival knife without breaking the bank, something like a cold steel SRK is hard to beat.

Not my first choice at all...Poorly designed with a terrible blade/edge profile. Stick tang,  Does nothing well. I carried one early in my military career until I figured out that I could do nearly everything I needed a knife to do with a medium size folder and a 12"  machete.

to add to Mr Bear... for my part of the Southeast a good Latin American machete with a wood handle ( my Collins SA is from Guatemala), and cut it to a tanto point at 12" or something like this 14" Tramontina.... then add a Victorinox Farmer....is a much better option... for the drier Southwest it may not have that much utility to you

http://www.amazon.com/Tramontina-TT4014-14-Bolo-Machete/dp/B00JNRF196/ref=pd_tcs_subst_hi_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0DX85S01WR6C05WRSY92

Camillus was finished a bit better then the Ontario knives but you're right, Camillus isn't made any more.

The real deal (as opposed to the Chinese knock offs) were all made with 1095 steel, which is very good for what it was designed to do.  It's the same steel road grader blades are made of and there's nothing cheap or crappy about it.

The grind is a sophisticated, complex thing that few people understand, since they don't come with instructions.  You will need to sharpen the knife yourself.  Changing the angle of the grind to something a bit more shallow then how it comes from the factory works better for me.

They do have  a stick tang and if seriously abused they can fail.

The leather sheaths were never very good no matter who made them.  The ones with a metal tip were better then the ones without it but I consider them all throwaway's.

It's not a fighting knife, it's a survival tool and as such you could do a lot worse.  

No help with the air-force knife, but a possible alternative...  I picked up a couple sog nw rangers a year or so ago, and they're surprisingly good for the money. Something like $60 iirc, and even though they're not as large a knife as I typically like, they still work well for me. Decent AUS-8 steel, the grip is good, and the balance is better than most smallish knives that I've used.

thanks for the replies!

scratch the Ontario, looking into the SOG seal pup elite (E37S).

has everything I want. a do all knife to attach to my back pack.

preference runs to the nylon sheath (has place for sharpening stone).

arfcom always delivers.

If you are still debating I would suggest you take a look at ESEE knives.
They are made from nicely heat treated 1095 carbon steel, have durable (micarta) handles and an excellent warranty. Good luck!

ordered the seal pup before you posted, but I agree the ESEE knives are worth a try.

Seal pup is a great knife.

I have owned Farmers for the last 30 years. All were given to me by my Dad. I am using the second of the three he gave me at present time. The first 2 have the red scales for the handles. The third which is still NIB are the polished scales like in your picture.

Esee 4, SAK SwissChamp, two Moras, Tramotina machete, LeatherMan SuperTool v.1 and some others.

Chris

I'd be more inclined to pick something like this for a 'survival' knife.  You just don't need a chopper out there when the chips are down.

Smaller knives like this make a lot of sense.  The Fallkniven F1 Pilot survival knife is a good example of the breed (a little bigger then yours) and is currently issued to several of the worlds air forces.  It's even approved for use by both the US Navy and Marine Corp.

The USAF knife is designed to do a lot of things, but doesn't necessarily do many of them very well.  It can cut, chop, saw, hammer, and stab.  As a $35 knife, for general utility, it's decent.  
Personally, I go with something else.  I'm using an Ontario SK-5 or Mora mostly. ESEEs and Beckers are also very popular.

It's sucks at batoning due to the full length hollow ground blade and all those teeth along the spine are a "bridge too far". Love the sheath though. OK general utility knife (I keep a SSP in my vehicle) but I'd rather carry a Mora 2000.

What about the more retro Boker "Strategic Air Command" model ?

Or the Swedish Air Force issue Fallkniven F1

I have the latter, plus a few other worldwide Air Force-issue knives

Some good, some great, some meh - but all better than no knife

Dead Moose Ops Brute:


http://www.deadmooseops.com/?page_id=23

I'd rather have a mora too.

for a survival knife you should look at a Gerber LMF II ASEK.

i have an older one and have done a lot of woods camping with it -- it's held up and i have no complaints.
the blade is sturdy and suitable for batoning, the sheath has a built-in sharpener, and the edge holds well.

if you are a Glock guy you'll understand this: the LMF II is a good knife -- it's not sexy, it just works.

ar-jedi

It's not a camp or bushcraft knife.  Serious bushcraft, camping, and survival knifes shouldn't be 1/2 serrated.



 

well, this has been an excellent tutorial on survival type knives.

in my original post I mentioned my interest in the USAF survival knife as a kid.
I thought they were really "cool" being fascinated with all things military (later joined the navy to become a gunner's mate).

lately I had seen them for sale from time to time and debated getting one.
after learning more about them from this thread, I'm glad I waited.

I did end up getting the SOG seal pup elite.
it's a great knife to have along when back packing and camping.

thanks to all of you for your input.

ETA: can someone explain "batoning"?

Good write up on Batoning from the Bark River Knife Collectors Association website:

Batoning

If you can find a Swamp Rat HRLM, you will never settle for  another knife in this size range again.  They aren't cheap at around $200, and can be hard to find since they only pop up on the secondary market (Blade Forums is a good place to look), but they are one of the best survival/hunting/utility knives ever produced.   The steel is a modified 52100 tool steel like what is used in industrial jack hammers...extremely tough.  The design itself is perfect for general utility, and you can baton the crap out of it without any concern for damaging it.  It has excellent ergonomics, and the blade geometry gives you a lot of working blade in a relatively small knife.  I keep one of these in my hunting bag and in every BOB I own.  Not a small investment, but who here will spend a grand on a firearm without batting an eye?  When the ammo is gone, the knife will be your life, so buy the best you can afford even if you have to scrimp a bit on something else.

If you want to be prepared for a starring role in Naked and Afraid, then grab a Swamp Rat Chopweiler.  It's the big brother to the HRLM, and it is the toughest knife you will ever find.  Chop down a giant redwood?  No problem!  OK, maybe a little tough, but not impossible with this knife.  I've personally chopped down trees 8" in diameter with it though, and while tiring due to my being 55 and a little past my prime, it wasn't as hard as I anticipated.  I keep mine in a Spec Ops sheath with a Leatherman and a fire starter in the pouch.  With this combo I think I could rebuild civilization if needed.   There are videos on people torturing this knife (chopping thru concrete block and metal pipe) without inflicting any damage to it, so rather than describe it here, I'll just tell you to Google it.  Swamp Rat (Busse) has an almost cult-like following that is based on performance unlike anything you will likely see with any other brand.  Few other makers build knives that create such performance-based passion, so maybe you should ask yourself why and take a look.  It's one of those things you just have to try to truly understand, but once you do, you kick yourself for not having done it sooner.  Sort of like when I discovered Cutco for the kitchen, but MUCH better.

Was issued one a long time ago.  I'll take the Mora instead.

Another +1 for any Mora of your choice.















If I need something heavier or more "combat" oriented I choose a Glock field knife.  Solid field blade.  Good for battening and hard use.  It can take more abuse vs. a Mora.

Hard to beat the Mora for Value.  That plus a folding saw (I found a nice Fiskars one at Wally World for $10), and you have a great combo.

Went Ontario OKC3S route. Glad I chose it over the m9 but I'm a huge Rambo fan so ill probably get one anyway.

Re-reading this, if you've really wanted one since you were a kid just get one- it isn't like they cost a mint.  They are a neat historic knife if not the latest and best.