Previous Page
Page:  / 2
Author
Message
blwngazkit
Member
Online
Posts: 965
Feedback: 0% (0)
Posted: 8/6/2012 9:29:05 PM
[Last Edit: 8/9/2012 10:22:56 AM by blwngazkit]

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
I'm having some difficulty deciding which route to go with the options I have; thought I'd post here and see if yall could help!

Backstory:
I currently have a ~5.7Kw (7k surge) gas fueled generator that I've wired into my main panel via an interlock kit. Unfortunately this generator is technically a loaner from my office (family owned business. This means I could lose it at anytime, including during an outage; it's not likely but possible.

Option:
- I have sourced multiple options for slow-sped (~1800rpm) diesel generator sets ranging from 7.5-10Kw for about $1,500. I would absolutely love to have one of these since it would cover every power requirement in my house. Diesel is also easier to store and cheaper (off-road diesel) than gas. A slow-speed diesel will also run for a LONG time without repair and very little fuel. The downside is the equipment is about double the cost of a new gas generator.

- My other option is to replace the loaner generator with a similar gas fueled unit for about ~$700. This is the most budget friendly upfront but would cost more in the long run IF I see significant usage.



Thoughts, suggestions, pointers, brain HELP?
Originally Posted By HogJaws:
"You know things are bad in CA when chicks who do ATM for a living are giving up on the place."
Scorpion8
Offline
Posts: 19
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/6/2012 10:06:40 PM
Gas is more volatile than diesel, but either one can be scavenged when needed during an emergency or SHTF. I would find two (one of each) that are equal and then see how comfortable being the sole repair guy for each. Can you fix a lawnmower engine? Most of us car guys are comfy with gas engines, and less-so on diesels.
blwngazkit
Member
Online
Posts: 966
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/6/2012 10:15:26 PM
I'm very good at repairing gas engines. Having said that, the simple diesel's I'm looking at are so simple a monkey could probably fix it if you hand him the tools/parts in the right order...

I'm just not sure the diesel is worth the cost difference for the likely sporadic use I'll need...
Originally Posted By HogJaws:
"You know things are bad in CA when chicks who do ATM for a living are giving up on the place."
secamp32
Member
Offline
Posts: 253
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/6/2012 10:18:56 PM
Originally Posted By blwngazkit:
I'm very good at repairing gas engines. Having said that, the simple diesel's I'm looking at are so simple a monkey could probably fix it if you hand him the tools/parts in the right order...

I'm just not sure the diesel is worth the cost difference for the likely sporadic use I'll need...


how often does your power go out?
blwngazkit
Member
Online
Posts: 967
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/6/2012 10:28:25 PM

Originally Posted By secamp32:
Originally Posted By blwngazkit:
I'm very good at repairing gas engines. Having said that, the simple diesel's I'm looking at are so simple a monkey could probably fix it if you hand him the tools/parts in the right order...

I'm just not sure the diesel is worth the cost difference for the likely sporadic use I'll need...


how often does your power go out?

Difficult to give an accurate assessment since I've only been at my current home for 2 years this month.

In those 2 years we've lost power just a handful of times with only once being longer than a day; that was during Hurricane Irene last year, and that was out for about 3 days.

I'm not located very far from a major distribution center for the power in my area so we're usually pretty quick to be back online.

Originally Posted By HogJaws:
"You know things are bad in CA when chicks who do ATM for a living are giving up on the place."
blwngazkit
Member
Online
Posts: 968
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/6/2012 10:30:57 PM
I'll add that while I have the tanks and cans to store up to 30 gallons of gas, I don't maintain that much since I can't cycle through it before it goes stale.

I could change that I think by dumping the older gas into the vehicles but that really is a pain to lug the 5-gallon cans or the 20-gallon fuel station around.
Originally Posted By HogJaws:
"You know things are bad in CA when chicks who do ATM for a living are giving up on the place."
AJE
Quite Shallow & Pedantic
Instructor
Offline
Posts: 15090
Feedback: 100% (29)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/6/2012 10:31:45 PM
I originally wanted a diesel but ended up with a gas unit. The reasons I wanted the diesel were for easier fuel storage, longer lasting more stable fuel, and less fuel consumption.

I ended up with a Generac 8000-12,000watt model. The gas consumption is great (will run about 10-12 hours for a tank full of 9 gallons at nearly full load (running fridge, water pump, sump, furnace, and some electronics). This was during an ice storm so the furnace was going nearly the whole time, as well as the sump pump was running pretty consistently.

I keep Stabil in the gasoline, stored in five gallon cans, and I rotate it out every so often by dumping it in our vehicles. I have about 60 hours over three years on it with no complaints.

Oh, weigh in here
GLOCK Armorer
Do, or do not. There is no "try" - Yoda
blwngazkit
Member
Online
Posts: 970
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/6/2012 10:40:42 PM
The fuel consumption is a big consideration for me... Gas is expensive! Then so is diesel...

The diesel setup I'm looking at would run about .6 gph at my loads and the gas setups would run about .8-.9 gph. So not a huge difference but it adds up.
Originally Posted By HogJaws:
"You know things are bad in CA when chicks who do ATM for a living are giving up on the place."
Skibane
Brown Marmorated Stinkbug
Offline
Posts: 27319
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/7/2012 8:06:48 AM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 8:09:01 AM by Skibane]
Originally Posted By blwngazkit:
In those 2 years we've lost power just a handful of times with only once being longer than a day; that was during Hurricane Irene last year, and that was out for about 3 days.

I'm not located very far from a major distribution center for the power in my area so we're usually pretty quick to be back online.


It doesn't sound like your generator is going to be getting a whole lot of run-time - which makes the shorter engine lifespan and higher fuel consumption of a gasoline-fueled generator a less important consideration.

3 days/year would be around 30 gallons of gasoline - assuming you run it full-tilt during the daytime, and shut it off overnight. That's only 300 hours of run-time in 10 years, which is insignificant for just about any gasoline generator.
"The skin of civilization is only 7 meals thick..."
blwngazkit
Member
Online
Posts: 971
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/7/2012 3:44:09 PM
Add to my list of 'thoughts: A used portable light tower has popped up near me for sale for about the same cost as a new gasoline generator. It's a diesel setup and has about 3000 hours on it for $800...

I think this will be the route I go unless someone has a good reason I should avoid it!
Originally Posted By HogJaws:
"You know things are bad in CA when chicks who do ATM for a living are giving up on the place."
EXPY37
Member
Offline
Posts: 11502
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/7/2012 8:43:44 PM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 8:48:46 PM by EXPY37]
Originally Posted By blwngazkit:
Add to my list of 'thoughts: A used portable light tower has popped up near me for sale for about the same cost as a new gasoline generator. It's a diesel setup and has about 3000 hours on it for $800...

I think this will be the route I go unless someone has a good reason I should avoid it!



Check it out and snap it up.

Light towers are great!

They're usually wired for 240 to power the HID lamps, with a receptacle for 120 vac across one of the windings. Mine is at least, it's a Wacker with a 3 cyl Cat engine and a 6kw head. I plan to rewire it's 2 windings in parallel when necessary to double the output at 120 vac.



blwngazkit
Member
Online
Posts: 972
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/8/2012 10:54:37 PM
Picked up the light tower today for $700.

It's a Terex Amida AL4000 with a Kubota D905 and a Leroy Somer 6Kw head. Checked it out and it's got +/-124V & 59.75Hz at no load.

Anything I should do before using this?
Originally Posted By HogJaws:
"You know things are bad in CA when chicks who do ATM for a living are giving up on the place."
Skibane
Brown Marmorated Stinkbug
Offline
Posts: 27335
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/8/2012 11:10:46 PM
[Last Edit: 8/9/2012 10:24:48 AM by Skibane]
Holy crap!

That's one heck of a score!

Change the oil, check the filters and the condition of the coolant, put some fresh fuel in it, and run it for a few hours with a sizable load connected.
"The skin of civilization is only 7 meals thick..."
EXPY37
Member
Offline
Posts: 11537
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/9/2012 8:13:20 AM
[Last Edit: 8/9/2012 8:18:49 AM by EXPY37]
We need a light tower club.

Pix?

First thing? Find manuals online or from the mfgr and read.

Post schematic. Update thread title.


blwngazkit
Member
Online
Posts: 973
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/9/2012 10:22:10 AM

Originally Posted By EXPY37:
We need a light tower club.

Pix?

First thing? Find manuals online or from the mfgr and read.

Post schematic. Update thread title.



Will Do!

He has some more; maybe I should post notice in the hometown forum...

The thing runs great! I will be changing the L6-30 receptacle to the more standard L14-30. I already have cords made for that and I want the Neutral tied into my panel anyway.


It has a LSA 37-M6 generator head on it. It's rated 6Kw continuous but doesn't have a rating for standby/surge. From some poking around online, some people suggest the surge capability may go as high as 75A or 18Kw .

Originally Posted By HogJaws:
"You know things are bad in CA when chicks who do ATM for a living are giving up on the place."
blwngazkit
Member
Online
Posts: 975
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/9/2012 12:57:47 PM
Any thoughts on how to test the waveform?

I suppose I'm going to have to find someone local with an oscilloscope...
Originally Posted By HogJaws:
"You know things are bad in CA when chicks who do ATM for a living are giving up on the place."
Skibane
Brown Marmorated Stinkbug
Offline
Posts: 27342
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/9/2012 1:56:21 PM
Take some of that money you saved on the generator, and invest it in one of these...
"The skin of civilization is only 7 meals thick..."
blwngazkit
Member
Online
Posts: 976
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/9/2012 2:44:24 PM
OK, that looks NICE!

Might have to find a used one...

While $350 is a darn good price, I just don't know that I can justify the expense for such a seldom used tool.
Originally Posted By HogJaws:
"You know things are bad in CA when chicks who do ATM for a living are giving up on the place."
EXPY37
Member
Offline
Posts: 11543
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/9/2012 6:15:39 PM
[Last Edit: 8/9/2012 6:31:09 PM by EXPY37]
Here's da manuals...

http://www.lighttowers.net/Terex_Genie_AL4000_Service_Manual.pdf

Partial head schematic pg 32.

If you want to double the 120 amps/output, DON'T tie the red and black together!

http://www.lighttowers.net/Terex_Genie_AL4000_Parts_Manual.pdf

Looks like 240 on the head for the lamps.

Mine doesn't have much surge capacity [air compressor], but haven't tied the two windings on the head together.


Don't worry abt the waveform unless something goes bad.

Stock a spare capacitor, diodes, and the other few parts for your head and a spare end bearing.

EXPY37
Member
Offline
Posts: 11544
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/9/2012 6:40:11 PM
[Last Edit: 8/9/2012 6:42:28 PM by EXPY37]
Here's the manual for mine w/ excellent troubleshooting info applicable to most.

http://products.wackerneuson.com/manuals/Repair/0160487en_003Rep.pdf


Should be saved by most with a similar head or diesel engine.


.


blwngazkit
Member
Online
Posts: 977
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/9/2012 9:18:28 PM
Sigh...

Was farting around with my new 'light tower' this evening and checked the voltage again and today it was only reading 102VAC.

Since I understood these to be capacitance regulated, I pulled the cover off the gen-head and the capacitor that's supposed to have 70uF is only coming out to ~50uF according to my Fluke DMM.

Figures... I check it before buying and it's fine, then the jostling of the trip home must have killed a borderline cap.
Originally Posted By HogJaws:
"You know things are bad in CA when chicks who do ATM for a living are giving up on the place."
Skibane
Brown Marmorated Stinkbug
Offline
Posts: 27344
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/9/2012 9:48:58 PM
Originally Posted By blwngazkit:
Sigh...

Was farting around with my new 'light tower' this evening and checked the voltage again and today it was only reading 102VAC.

Since I understood these to be capacitance regulated, I pulled the cover off the gen-head and the capacitor that's supposed to have 70uF is only coming out to ~50uF according to my Fluke DMM.

Figures... I check it before buying and it's fine, then the jostling of the trip home must have killed a borderline cap.



What's the tolerance on that cap?

It could very well be within spec.
"The skin of civilization is only 7 meals thick..."
blwngazkit
Member
Online
Posts: 978
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/9/2012 9:54:14 PM

Originally Posted By Skibane:
Originally Posted By blwngazkit:
Sigh...

Was farting around with my new 'light tower' this evening and checked the voltage again and today it was only reading 102VAC.

Since I understood these to be capacitance regulated, I pulled the cover off the gen-head and the capacitor that's supposed to have 70uF is only coming out to ~50uF according to my Fluke DMM.

Figures... I check it before buying and it's fine, then the jostling of the trip home must have killed a borderline cap.



What's the tolerance on that cap?

It could very well be within spec.

Pretty sure it was +/- 5% but it may have been 10%. Either way it's still out of spec.

Out of curiosity, if it WAS in spec, what else would cause the low voltage?
Originally Posted By HogJaws:
"You know things are bad in CA when chicks who do ATM for a living are giving up on the place."
EXPY37
Member
Offline
Posts: 11553
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/10/2012 10:39:35 AM
Originally Posted By blwngazkit:

Originally Posted By Skibane:
Originally Posted By blwngazkit:
Sigh...

Was farting around with my new 'light tower' this evening and checked the voltage again and today it was only reading 102VAC.

Since I understood these to be capacitance regulated, I pulled the cover off the gen-head and the capacitor that's supposed to have 70uF is only coming out to ~50uF according to my Fluke DMM.

Figures... I check it before buying and it's fine, then the jostling of the trip home must have killed a borderline cap.



What's the tolerance on that cap?

It could very well be within spec.

Pretty sure it was +/- 5% but it may have been 10%. Either way it's still out of spec.

Out of curiosity, if it WAS in spec, what else would cause the low voltage?



Why not hang a small load on it and check again with a couple meters.

Low could be casued by a creeping voltage adjust control, bad voltage reg, caps, open diode, wires loose.

How old and in what condx is your unit, what are the hours.

H-F has inexpensive DVM's with a freq function so you can quickly verify engine speed.


blwngazkit
Member
Online
Posts: 979
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/10/2012 11:26:58 AM
[Last Edit: 8/10/2012 11:29:15 AM by blwngazkit]
My Fluke meter shows the Freq. at 59.85Hz and I verified the engine speed with my IR Tach at ~1795rpm.

The unit is 12 years old and has 3,000 hours.

According to the gen-head's menufacturer's manual, the Capacitor is the voltage regulator and should measure 70uF. The only other components in the system are the diodes in the gen-head.

I will double check for loose connections as I did change the L6-30 receptacle to an L14-30. However the capacitor showing 50uf instead of the spec'd 70uF+/-5% is likely the cause. I'm picking a replacement Run Capacitor up from Grainger this afternoon.

Oddly none of the HVAC supply houses carry this particular size and would have to order it; they tell me it's a larger than normal size. They stock the 370VAC caps, and while that SHOULD WORK (240V * 1.414 = Max theoretical voltage of 340V) it sure doesn't leave much room for V spikes. Plus the spec's call for a 450VAC capacitor, 440V should be just fine though.


ETA:
I did plug in a 2Kw shop light and double check the voltage before I started looking at other things; voltage was identical load vs. no-load. There have been too many other times in the past when I jumped to conclusions to not do a simple check like that!!
Originally Posted By HogJaws:
"You know things are bad in CA when chicks who do ATM for a living are giving up on the place."
blwngazkit
Member
Online
Posts: 981
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/11/2012 3:29:10 PM
I put the new capacitor on today and it brought the voltage back to what it should be. Tested the setup on the house and everything works great!

Originally Posted By HogJaws:
"You know things are bad in CA when chicks who do ATM for a living are giving up on the place."
  Previous Page
Page:  / 2