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raf
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Posted: 3/4/2012 5:49:07 PM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2012 5:55:27 PM by raf]

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And help is an unknown time/distance away. Conditions are such that leaving the car is NOT a good idea. Sure, you've got your BOB, or car kit, but you think some hot liquids/food might be a REALLY good idea at some point.

You have a couple of choices: (1) Use the Cig lighter to power a liquid-heater of some sort, but that runs the risk of draining the vehicle's batt down to a potentially dangerous point. You might need some of that car-batt juice to power your cell phone/call for help, or start the car once conditions permit. Starting the car every now and then, to run the heater/cig lighter is not a viable option, since you don't have an inexhaustable fuel supply, and you don't know how long you will be stranded. Sure, you'll do it, but you'll also have to run the alternator/engine a fair amount of time to recharge what you extract from the batt to start-up the engine AND run the power-hungry electrical liquid heater. Unless you have a volt meter that monitors your batt's charge level, you will be guessing about the batt's ability to re-start your vehicle. And most modern cars do not have such.

(2) Use some sort of heat source that does not drain the batt, provides useful amount of heat, and which you can use INSIDE the car with windows(s) closed. Hey, it's cold, windy, and snowy out there! Who wants to open windows and let the meager heat inside the car blow out instantly? Oh, BTW, it would help if the heat source did not emit toxic fumes OR suck up a lot of oxygen within the closed car, and also be long-term storage stable.


I am thinking an alcohol stove, although it consumes oxygen, so windows would have to be opened a crack, and in this scenario, that is undesirable. Maybe some MRE heaters, although I believe they emit noxious fumes.

Anybody got some ideas?
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ar154all
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Posted: 3/4/2012 5:58:42 PM
So you want a combustible heat source in the body of a car?
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psdavi01
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Posted: 3/4/2012 7:04:56 PM
Candles work really well!
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raf
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Posted: 3/4/2012 7:21:28 PM

Originally Posted By ar154all:
So you want a combustible heat source in the body of a car?

I want a non-toxic emissions, non-oxygen-using heat source independent of the car's batt. I understand I will have to use some care in using the thing, but dploying the heat source should not be rocket science, either. After all, the user might be fatigued/anxious.
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mylt1
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Posted: 3/4/2012 7:26:52 PM
blankets, lots of them. use them to cover the windows and doors to help keep the heat in. wrap them around you to keep you warm. there are automotive electric blankets but battery drain becomes an issue. once you have the blankets around the windows, just start the car up every once and a while to pump the cabin full of hot air.
raf
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Posted: 3/4/2012 7:41:11 PM

Originally Posted By psdavi01:
Candles work really well!

They do, paricularly in close confinement, but they are oxygen thieves. Some candles also emit toxic vapors. This is not a big deal in most cases, but within a small closed environment, like the interior of a car, it coud be a problem.
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raf
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Posted: 3/4/2012 7:45:33 PM

Originally Posted By mylt1:
blankets, lots of them. use them to cover the windows and doors to help keep the heat in. wrap them around you to keep you warm. there are automotive electric blankets but battery drain becomes an issue. once you have the blankets around the windows, just start the car up every once and a while to pump the cabin full of hot air.
I undeerstand that the roof and floor of most cars are sound-insulated, and thus more-or-less heat insulated. I also understand that the glass is where almost all heat-loss occurs. How does one secure insulating material, in an effective manner, over the windows of a vehicle?

"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
ronin275
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Posted: 3/4/2012 7:49:45 PM
When I was in the Army we had chemical heat pads that the medics carried. A little bit of water was used to activate them. No fumes and they got real hot. They could be used a number of times. They were about a 6" by 6". I guess you might be able to heat the outside of a metal cup to warm some water. Just a thought.
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Posted: 3/4/2012 7:53:29 PM
Originally Posted By raf:

Originally Posted By mylt1:
blankets, lots of them. use them to cover the windows and doors to help keep the heat in. wrap them around you to keep you warm. there are automotive electric blankets but battery drain becomes an issue. once you have the blankets around the windows, just start the car up every once and a while to pump the cabin full of hot air.
I undeerstand that the roof and floor of most cars are sound-insulated, and thus more-or-less heat insulated. I also understand that the glass is where almost all heat-loss occurs. How does one secure insulating material, in an effective manner, over the windows of a vehicle?



i would use something to hold it in place like a wooden dowel or make something out of Al. tape wont cut it. sticky backed velcro might do it as long as you prep the mounting surface well. also, the roof isnt insulated in most cars. the only thing up there is the headliner. best thing to do is get in your car/truck and see what, if anything, you already have in there that you can hang the blankets. for that duty i would say find some of the thick wool moving blankets. i know u-haul use to have nice ones not sure if you can find them. all else fails, some of the surplus wool blankets from CTD/SG would do just fine.
raf
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Posted: 3/4/2012 8:07:20 PM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2012 8:08:48 PM by raf]
Well, we are talking about emplacing insulation on car windows at this point, and doing so strays a bit from the original question. No doubt window insulation would be of considerable benefit, but I have found that merely cleaning the car's windows from the inside, under benign conditions, to be a real chore, and that is with the doors open. I reckon that installing pre-made insulation over the windows under survival conditions might be tougher still. Your suggestion is of value to those folks who might easily find themselves in this sort of situation, but, realistically speaking, who will go to the trouble to pre-fab such items?
I am NOT dissing what you're saying, but let's get back on-topic, OK?
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FredMan
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Posted: 3/4/2012 8:24:03 PM
Take your blankets/towels you're going to use to insulate the windows and just drape them over the door (leaving a little bit on the outside) and shut the door on them.

Front/rear, no idea.
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Posted: 3/4/2012 8:26:18 PM
There aren't good long term heat sources that are not going to absorb O2 or produce toxic results. You better bet is better preps. Blankets AND mummy sleeping bag, plus fuel/water for you are a must for any super cold locale. 5000 Calories per day. Keep in mind that you'll produce "toxic" waste if you're stuck in the car, so a wide mouth bottle, bags, and TP are good to keep in the car as well.

When you crank a cold engine with a cold battery, it sucks the life out of the battery. Run your car for heat, but don't forget you need to run the car long enough to top off the battery (not just long enough to heat the car).
ar154all
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Posted: 3/4/2012 9:02:13 PM
Everything that I can think is GOING to kill you by either stealing oxygen or by producing toxins or both.

Blankets, running the car at night, find other shelter where a fire can be built. Thats all I got.

As it stands right now your car is your coffin. Use it at night while you have gas, get out of it in the daytime.

make igloo. use engine oil, gas, and spare tire for smoke signal

tagged for more info...

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raf
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Posted: 3/4/2012 9:16:46 PM
Folks, this is something of a difficult technical exercise. If I had an easy answer, i would have said it already. I appreciate all pertinant answers.
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DSRV
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Posted: 3/4/2012 9:50:20 PM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2012 9:51:04 PM by DSRV]
Happens from time to time around here in the high country. This winter we had an elderly couple stranded in a disabled vehicle. The woman died after only 3-4 days. Another woman was stranded for about 10 days with only two bottles of water and a couple of candy bars.

I have several chemical warmers in the GHBs and car kit along extra food / water with an emergency folding stove for hot food and drink outside the car.

But stranded in the car.....


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elementsdesign90
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Posted: 3/4/2012 10:08:29 PM
I have been doing research on this for the last week or so. My Brother and his family live up North, and I am trying to put together a kit for both their vehicles. I have not found a viable solution yet. I will let you know if i come up with anything, and keep tabs on this thread for updates.
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raf
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Posted: 3/4/2012 10:42:40 PM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2012 10:52:31 PM by raf]

Originally Posted By DSRV:
Happens from time to time around here in the high country. This winter we had an elderly couple stranded in a disabled vehicle. The woman died after only 3-4 days. Another woman was stranded for about 10 days with only two bottles of water and a couple of candy bars.

I have several chemical warmers in the GHBs and car kit along extra food / water with an emergency folding stove for hot food and drink outside the car.

But stranded in the car.....




Too bad about the elderly woman, but what about her presumably elderly husband? What made the difference in one surviving, and the other dieing?

In any event, the scenaro posed is a tough one, I grant you. Most of us have fuel/stoves to generate heat OUTSIDE the car, but in blizzard/super cold/super cold and windy conditions, getting out of the car might be the wrong move.
Imagine getting out of a the car, and finding that the fuel in your stove will not ignite. Just trying to generate some thoughts/discussion of question to which I don't have an answer...

BTW, the stranded inside the car scenario is not much different than a stranded inside the tent scenario, come to think on it, although folks stranded in a tent probably have MUCH better sleeping bags/gear than the usual car driver.
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benzo
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Posted: 3/4/2012 10:47:02 PM
what about thes heater packs which can be reactivated?

http://www.9thtee.com/reheater.htm

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Posted: 3/4/2012 11:06:57 PM
Don't know for sure how much of this is " Fact "... ?

Swedish man trapped in car for two months
Updated: 12:04, Monday, 20 February 2012
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0219/sweden.html

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Posted: 3/4/2012 11:13:33 PM
[Last Edit: 3/4/2012 11:43:34 PM by elementsdesign90]
The best solution I have found so far:

Portable Propane Heater

Small model would run about 8 hrs on high with a 1lb. cannister. Requires 3 sq. in. of fresh air on high.

I also thought this was interesting, but seems like something anyone could make:

Atomic Heater

I do like the idea of using the foam pipe insulation on top of the window.

We are talking a life or death situation here, so I do believe some degree of risk is warranted. I will of course continue to research, and certainly test any solution prior to considering it for use.

As far as cooking goes: I would not hesitate to use my Snow Peak Giga. I have used it numerous times confined in a tent, in snow and freezing rain.
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Posted: 3/5/2012 7:00:06 AM
Nothing is going to be great, no matter how you plan it still could end in death, and even if you don't die it's not going to be fun. I try not to get into this in the first place, watch the weather reports, most cell phone have an app for the weather, use it, I think we are talking about a major storm, lots of advance notice, either don't go or if on the way home stop before you get stuck somewhere better then along the roadway. I have 4x4 truck and still try not go out in major storm. However I have blankets and rations in truck and a full tank of gas. Most of the ones caught like this did not watch storm coming, made no plans and are driving small car with poor tires for snow, but hey it get good mileage and the government should have the roads open. Respect the power of nature.
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Posted: 3/5/2012 8:31:16 AM
Originally Posted By FredMan:
Take your blankets/towels you're going to use to insulate the windows and just drape them over the door (leaving a little bit on the outside) and shut the door on them.

Front/rear, no idea.


This.....you could cover the front and back side windows with one blanket per side. Then just stuff odds and ends into the front and back windows.

Do not use alcohol stoves in a car like that. Spills can be extremely hard to put out.

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Posted: 3/5/2012 10:44:44 AM
[Last Edit: 3/5/2012 10:46:06 AM by sh0ck1999]
Maybe I'm over thinking this but if u had some sort of rig with ss tubing inside on the radiator and ran two hoses inside of the car you could have like a medical heat pad and pump the antifreeze in that separate circuit with a hand crank pump.

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Posted: 3/5/2012 12:32:39 PM
If you live in a blizzard prone area you should already have some dry gas like HEET in your vehicle. HEET burns very nicely in an alcohol stove. Makes ya think.....
esa17
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Posted: 3/5/2012 12:47:56 PM
Snow will insulate the exterior glass quite well but it will also hide you from the help you need.

Blankets, poptarts, a crossword and and a bicycle flag for visibility.
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Posted: 3/5/2012 12:50:07 PM
duct tape towels over windows (both are under the back seat).for some additional vehicle insulation, blankets/space-blankets/etc for personal insulation. Not a perfect solution, but hey... that's why I live in Texas.
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