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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 12/16/2011 3:16:54 PM EDT
Well just got back from a 3 day and 2 nights Afghanistan camping trip and froze my ass off at night. The three layer sleeping system is great if you have room for all three layers, I don't because of limited space for gear I need accomplish the mission. I used the Bivy cover and light sleeping bag and was pretty cold in 30 degree temps and at about 1750 meters above sea level. My old MOS always allowed for me to bring the whole sleep system either in my bag or a buddies and I felt like a rookie out there on this mission.

Not too worried about price point but the smaller the bag the better. Don't care how much it weights either just as long it will keep me warm.

Socks also, need good warm socks. Any ideas or recommendations would be great.
Thanks guys,
Kirch
Link Posted: 12/16/2011 3:28:37 PM EDT
I feel your pain; I forgot my UAH/MRAP gear bag once when we went out on what was supposed to be a day patrol and of course that day the UAH broke down and we spent the night at an outlying ANP FOB waiting for the patrol to return and drag us back home. Had to be one of the coldest nights ever; I spent most of it pacing around just to stay warm
Link Posted: 12/16/2011 5:34:30 PM EDT
I just suspend my sleeping system from the bottom of my ILBE. Will your pack allow external attachment so you can cary the whole thing?
Link Posted: 12/16/2011 5:56:31 PM EDT
For my current deployment I got this Recon 4, system. The coldest it got was a windy 35F night, but I felt nice and toasty. YMMV
Link Posted: 12/16/2011 6:22:58 PM EDT
Probably no room for the woobie and not using a pus pad...
Any chance you could ditch the jungle layer and just add the cold weather layer to your system in your ruck?
Well I have heard good things about using space blankets inside sleeping bags, haven't tried it though.
Link Posted: 12/16/2011 7:23:28 PM EDT
Western mountaineering. Warmer and lighter.
Link Posted: 12/16/2011 8:41:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2011 9:04:03 PM EDT by Waldo]
Link Posted: 12/16/2011 9:08:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FunBobby:
For my current deployment I got this Recon 4, system. The coldest it got was a windy 35F night, but I felt nice and toasty. YMMV


X2, these bags work well and compress down to melon size, not a rolled up tube size.
Link Posted: 12/16/2011 10:47:57 PM EDT
Another vote for recon.

Link Posted: 12/17/2011 5:04:31 AM EDT
You'll be much warmer with something between you and the ground. The new self inflating puss pad compresses very small...

Also, might be a stupid question, but are you wearing any snivel while in the bag? I've been able to get down to the mid 30s comfortably using the woobie, bivy sack, polypro top/bottom and fleece hat.
Link Posted: 12/17/2011 7:19:37 AM EDT
With the patrol bag inside the bivy, woobie inside the bag, and me wearing polypro, sleeping bag hood, and wool socks, I've been comfy (not toasty warm, but not cold either) down to around 20F. This was sleeping on a cot, with a Therm-a-rest pad underneath. The pad is a must-have in any climate, both for comfort and insulation.
Link Posted: 12/17/2011 9:30:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ME2112:
With the patrol bag inside the bivy, woobie inside the bag, and me wearing polypro, sleeping bag hood, and wool socks, I've been comfy (not toasty warm, but not cold either) down to around 20F. This was sleeping on a cot, with a Therm-a-rest pad underneath. The pad is a must-have in any climate, both for comfort and insulation.


My biggest complaint about the pads have been that they are too slick. I am a restless sleeper to begin with, and the pads they have now, you slide off at some point during the night. The old foam pads were "tackier", if that makes sense.
Link Posted: 12/17/2011 10:29:25 AM EDT
Keep something between your sleeping bag and the ground and layer up as needed. I only take the grey layer of the 3 layer system with me and as long as I am not on the ground and add layers of cloths as needed I am warm enough. PT fleece cap can help a ton on really cold nights. At almost 8000ft elevation the cold comes on fast when the sun goes down. Stay safe and warm out there!
Link Posted: 12/17/2011 11:38:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By ME2112:
With the patrol bag inside the bivy, woobie inside the bag, and me wearing polypro, sleeping bag hood, and wool socks, I've been comfy (not toasty warm, but not cold either) down to around 20F. This was sleeping on a cot, with a Therm-a-rest pad underneath. The pad is a must-have in any climate, both for comfort and insulation.


My biggest complaint about the pads have been that they are too slick. I am a restless sleeper to begin with, and the pads they have now, you slide off at some point during the night. The old foam pads were "tackier", if that makes sense.


My Trail Pro is pretty sticky on top, and most of the time I put it inside my bivy to help protect it from punctures. This obviously keeps me from sliding off it at night, too, and makes packing up in the morning very easy since all I have to do is open the valve and roll everything up from the foot.

Link Posted: 12/17/2011 11:56:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2011 2:43:21 PM EDT


I have a wiggys as well, great bag.... You can also store them compressed for as long as you like, it will not ruin the insulation, unlike some of the other materials..
Link Posted: 12/17/2011 2:48:51 PM EDT
Are you sure that socks are your problem. I'd first look at your boots. I used to use some Danner Matterhorns, full leather, with Gortex. Those boots rocked the casba. Warm and dry enough for cold weather training and still cool enough for desert use. Never any blisters either. Only downside is they were a bit on the heavy side. I'd still have those boots today if I hadn't lost them in a move.

ben
Link Posted: 12/17/2011 3:08:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kirch:
Well just got back from a 3 day and 2 nights Afghanistan camping trip and froze my ass off at night.


Thats a long way to go on a camping trip. :)
Link Posted: 12/17/2011 3:13:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ilbob:
Originally Posted By Kirch:
Well just got back from a 3 day and 2 nights Afghanistan camping trip and froze my ass off at night.


Thats a long way to go on a camping trip. :)


The Army RUINED camping for me as a fun pasttime for many years.
Link Posted: 12/17/2011 3:26:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By ilbob:
Originally Posted By Kirch:
Well just got back from a 3 day and 2 nights Afghanistan camping trip and froze my ass off at night.


Thats a long way to go on a camping trip. :)


The Army RUINED camping for me as a fun pasttime for many years.


A guy I knew who came back from the marines wanted nothing to do with being outdoors for many years after he finished his time. In HS he was really into winter sports. Skiing, snowmobiling etc. He spent a couple winters someplace pretty cold walking a guard post outside, and completely lost interest in outdoor activities in the cold. I have not run across him in a long time. I wonder if he ever got the winter sports urge back.
Link Posted: 12/17/2011 7:30:48 PM EDT
Well Guys, I think I have pinpointed it down to two big mistakes on my part. No puss pad being the first and taking the green layer instead of the black layer of my sleeping system.
I did talk with some other guys that were out there and one of them was using the Recon 4 and said he was warm without using the puss pad.
So I am going to order a Recon 4 and the Recon pad. I should be able to get by looking at the measurements and make it work in my pack. After messing around this last time and freezing, I’ll add weight next time and sleep warm.
Thanks for the help guys and I’ll post an AAR after I get my gear and put it through a field test.
Link Posted: 12/17/2011 9:00:48 PM EDT
Throw a few of those hand-warmer packets inside your bag too.
Link Posted: 12/17/2011 10:14:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kirch:
Well Guys, I think I have pinpointed it down to two big mistakes on my part. No puss pad being the first and taking the green layer instead of the black layer of my sleeping system.



In my experience the patrol (green) bag with a woobie inside, and me wearing polypro, wool socks, and sleeping bag hood is almost as warm as the intermediate (black) bag, while weighing less and taking up less space in the pack. If I ever grow a pair I'll try it out in temps around 10F. In the backyard, of course, so I can come inside like the cupcake I've become if I get cold. LOL

Link Posted: 12/18/2011 2:12:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/18/2011 2:44:29 AM EDT
Make sure you shake you bag out when you take it out of the stuff sack, it helps fluff the filler back up. Compression reduces the loft capability of the filler.
Link Posted: 12/18/2011 2:54:47 PM EDT
It seems like it'd be impossible to get those recons back into the bag or am I missing something?
Link Posted: 12/18/2011 7:19:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2011 7:19:36 PM EDT by ilbob]
I never camped in Afghanstan, but I always found it was warmer if I could get off the ground. Pads, anything to get some insulation between me and the infinite cold heat sink.

I also found that a couple of handwarmers down by my feet helped too.

Link Posted: 12/18/2011 8:39:15 PM EDT
Fill up a nalgene bottle with boiling water, screw the top down good, put it in a sock, throw that in the bottom of your bag. Use the water for coffee in the AM.

I've got a wiggys solution for 40, 35, 20, 0, -20, and -40. Good luck getting me to recommend a different brand. My -20 FTRSS has been tested to -10, where I was still not only able to sleep, but very warm and comfy as well.
Link Posted: 12/18/2011 10:27:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2011 10:29:36 PM EDT by LongBeach]
Im not in the military, but maybe try a kifaru slickbag with a wobbie. Mine has been great for camping, etc... here in CA.
Link Posted: 12/19/2011 6:10:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2011 6:23:09 AM EDT by ilbob]
I can't say how well this works, or whether it would work for you or not, but I have run across posts elsewhere from ultralight backpackers who claim a space blanket bivy and a wool or fleece blanket works surprisingly well. Literally they take a couple of space blankets and tape them together to form a bivy of sorts, and put the blanket inside and crawl in.

Personally, I suspect one would get damp inside such a getup from body moisture, but maybe not. Unless you are sweating most of the moisture would come from respiration and that could be outside the bivy kept warm by other means.

One place I ran across the guy claimed he used this arrangement at 14F (granted for a short time). To me it does not seem even possible for it to work that well, but I have never tried it.http://www.bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=934

They all seem to agree with having a pad of some sort under it though.

Read some of these reviews

I have always considered space blankets to be just a one time use tarp, but maybe I need to rethink that.

Link Posted: 12/19/2011 6:18:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ilbob:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By ilbob:
Originally Posted By Kirch:
Well just got back from a 3 day and 2 nights Afghanistan camping trip and froze my ass off at night.


Thats a long way to go on a camping trip. :)


The Army RUINED camping for me as a fun pasttime for many years.


A guy I knew who came back from the marines wanted nothing to do with being outdoors for many years after he finished his time. In HS he was really into winter sports. Skiing, snowmobiling etc. He spent a couple winters someplace pretty cold walking a guard post outside, and completely lost interest in outdoor activities in the cold. I have not run across him in a long time. I wonder if he ever got the winter sports urge back.

One of my favorite pastimes now, is to curl up by the window with a hot cup of joe when it's cold and rainy outside and think, "sucks to be out there".

Link Posted: 12/19/2011 4:56:39 PM EDT
Alpaca socks are tops on wool. I have worn Wool and Alpaca, of similiar weights, while tree stand hunting. One foot wool and one foot alpaca, then switched the next day. Same result being the alpaca was warmer.

Alpaca wool mix socks here
Link Posted: 12/19/2011 5:54:39 PM EDT
1. Sleeping pad, bring it.
2. Bivy bag, bring it.
3. Place pad in bivy.
4. Dry off or change clothing before sleeping. Your clothing will hold moisture even if you think you are dry. I know in sector you don't always have that luxury but some gold bond powder will soak up some in a pinch.
5. Poncho and wobbie. Never leave home with out them. Tie together and use as ultra light bag in Bivy.
6. Disregard green bag. If its warm enough for it you are better off going with #5.
7. As tempting as it may seem don't seal yourself up in your bag. Your exhaled air will condense and leave you wet.
8. Buy stuff sacks for Poncho and wobbie to cut down on space
9. Black bag is warm, but bulky. No real way around it except looking to the civilian market.
Link Posted: 12/20/2011 5:03:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LongBeach:
Im not in the military, but maybe try a kifaru slickbag with a wobbie. Mine has been great for camping, etc... here in CA.




This is what I have been waiting to hear. All my packs are Kifaru. I've been looking at these for a while.

Link Posted: 12/21/2011 7:54:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
My biggest complaint about the pads have been that they are too slick. I am a restless sleeper to begin with, and the pads they have now, you slide off at some point during the night. The old foam pads were "tackier", if that makes sense.

roll it up with a shelf liner in it. It will keep you from slipping off.

I would go with the smartwool sox, down bag and a therma rest.

You out in the Konar?

If you could get your hands on a crye overcoat, that would rock. I used one before and it kicks ass.
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 10:05:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2011 10:06:41 PM EDT by LongBeach]
"This is what I have been waiting to hear. All my packs are Kifaru. I've been looking at these for a while. "


They make some really nice equipment. Im actually thinking about picking up some more gear from them. Which pack did you got with?
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 11:40:08 AM EDT
Went with the Navigator. It's a little bigger than I need, but I figured I would grow into it. Really nice bag.
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 12:09:15 PM EDT
My main ruck is a MMR. If the Navigator wasn't so close in size then it would be my next pack, as its one of the few Kifaru packs I haven't had at some point.

Their bags use virtually the same insulation as Wiggys, but are make without the lamination process, use lighter shell fabric and smaller zippers. Should be very warm for the size and weight, but very spendy. For what the full modular system costs you can have one of their paratipi shelters and a stove!
Link Posted: 12/23/2011 11:08:25 PM EDT
Just adda poncho liner (woobie) to what ever sleeping bag your using. Light weight, doesn't take up much room and it reflects a lot of your body heat back onto you while you sleep. Fleece works well too but gets heavy and hard to dry if it gets wet.
Link Posted: 12/25/2011 9:29:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2011 9:31:11 AM EDT by daemon734]
Originally Posted By Kirch:
Well just got back from a 3 day and 2 nights Afghanistan camping trip and froze my ass off at night. The three layer sleeping system is great if you have room for all three layers, I don't because of limited space for gear I need accomplish the mission. I used the Bivy cover and light sleeping bag and was pretty cold in 30 degree temps and at about 1750 meters above sea level. My old MOS always allowed for me to bring the whole sleep system either in my bag or a buddies and I felt like a rookie out there on this mission.

Not too worried about price point but the smaller the bag the better. Don't care how much it weights either just as long it will keep me warm.

Socks also, need good warm socks. Any ideas or recommendations would be great.
Thanks guys,
Kirch


I ended up having to do that in the Argandab on an air assault. Last minute we had to ditch our bang bags and consolidate them into our rucks. Ended up with just the light sleeping bag. Mission went from 3 days into over 30 and the weather changed midway through. We slept on the ground and it was miserable, I was so cold I couldnt sleep at night. I went through a case of thermites we had airdropped to us just burning trash next to me to stay warm. Towards the end when it got really cold we had the terp go buy us large blankets from the locals.


I think you are a little farther north from where I was, but i've been up there too and and it was ridiculous cold even during the day moving around.
Link Posted: 12/25/2011 11:01:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/26/2011 5:43:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By -FiveFiveSIx-:


I have a wiggys as well, great bag.... You can also store them compressed for as long as you like, it will not ruin the insulation, unlike some of the other materials..


Where can you get them and how small can you compress it?
Link Posted: 12/26/2011 2:19:24 PM EDT
heat up water to a boil, pour in canteen, place canteen in bag, crawl in bag, fall asleep. thats what I do winter camping
Link Posted: 12/26/2011 7:20:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PFC_Dustin:
Originally Posted By -FiveFiveSIx-:


I have a wiggys as well, great bag.... You can also store them compressed for as long as you like, it will not ruin the insulation, unlike some of the other materials..


Where can you get them and how small can you compress it?


www.wiggys.com

Ask about .mil discounts when you call.

The long/wide Ultralight FTRSS (rated to -20) compresses down a bit smaller than an MSS, but is a LOT warmer. The long/wide Superlight bag by itself (rated to 0deg) is slightly larger than a basketball.
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