this is an amazing thread and i wish i would have seen this earlier. im eager to see pics of these set ups and to start my own.

Awesome thread.  I've been working on getting a kit put together myself.  I'm an EMTB and halfway through medic school.   I've been looking at cases and storage and have a list ;put together that I was going to go off of.  Now, I'm going to cross it with the one you have on page 1.  Real similar.  It's amazing what you can accomplish with a handful of cravats, some Sam splints a box of 4x4s and some gauze and tape.  

Thanks.

This. I have used super-glue for years, and it holds a permanent place in my FA kit. I have even used superglue on fairly deep cuts that probably would have required stitches with no ill-effects. I graduated with a degree in environmental bio (not pre-med), so I do understand the limitations of super-glue, but dang is it useful!

This kit would seem to be fairly close to meeting the recommendations:

http://www.surplusplanet360.com/M3-Medic-Bag-Complete-With-Supplies-Fa-108.html

I am looking for an empty M3 and an M17 bag to build my own. Anyone know who makes good ones?



M3 would be nice if everything fits neatly. The M17 is huge and maybe more than is necessary.



 

I found some corpsman bags. Cant seem to remember where.I really like the jansport pack

One of the reasons I was leaning towards the M3 is that it has molle attachment. I can throw it on the back of my ruck.





 

Again, many, many thanks lafmedic for getting this going.  

However, this thread is useless without pics.  

The kits below were assembled closely following the advice in the thread, with a few changes.  Both cases are identical in content, but layout is a little different.  Most of the stuff was ordered from Amazon, cases from lowes and the remainder from the local grocery store.  

Due to the high cost of Pelican cases they are in metal tool boxes that look similar to brief cases.  Not water proof, but somewhat resistant.  A couple of things we added; extra batteries and bulbs for the flash lights.   They have been vacuum sealed so just in case they leak.  There are also about 50 pairs of gloves in each case, in a ziplock baggy.  I also ordered a couple of fan-fold emergency first aid cheat sheets, never know who might be using the contents.  Several packages of tissues.  There are also 5 emergency blankets in each.  If you are outdoors and trying to give first aid to someone you will quickly discover there is no place "clean" to set anything down.  A $1 thermal blanket comes in handy for this use.  Lastly I added a couple of large syringes in sterile package.  They can be handy for flushing wounds or eyes out.  Been there, done that.  

I like it.  I've got one of those cases sitting around doing nothing.  I think I will put it to good use!

Thanks for posting the pics.

Great thread, thank you.



Have a question.  I'm putting together a few kits for the house and car.  

I have a baby on the way (2 weeks) and I want to also put together 2 kits for her.  One for the house and one for her diaper bag.

What infant specific items would you recommend?

Head Cap for the infant. Wool. Infant face mask with valve for CPR. Pretty much everything else can be adapted for Ped Use. As your child gets older you can add more bandaids for minor wounds. Also add pedia lite or other fluid if the child gets dehydrated on an outing.

Thank you for the information. I added some smaller sized gauze pads, wraps, tape and the like as well.



Fiancee saw the order list online that I had going.  Started to say something, I jumped in with "it's for the baby", she repsonds if we should order more.  I love the "it's for the baby" excuse.



I need to find a good book on pediatric first aid.  I've been talking with our OB/GYN, and he has been a great help so far on first aid.

Our Barnes and Noble has an EMS/Nursing Section with some very good books. Just stay in your level of knowledge and dont get too advanced. Also look online but be wary of false knowledge. Some good books are made by Brady. There is also an online Computer based training system out there for guys with BLS level that need a refresher .

Try uncle sams retail outlet

They have new M3  in bag for cheap

http://www.unclesamsretailoutlet.com/Combat-Lifesaver-M3-Medic-Bag-Empty-6545009129870.html

Condor

http://www.opsgear.com/index/page/product/product_id/1556/category_id/37/category_chain/13,37/product_name/MOLLE+Fold+Out+Medical+Bag

old school tagimus maximus.

Page 5?  This is too far back for my liking.  

I could use some feedback on my medical kit. The only training I have is a American Heart Association CPR course and a half day "Trauma First Aid" class taught by a Paramedic at my local range. I'm not concerned with the end of the world; just the occasional bump/bruise and being able to provide immediate aid while waiting for the ambulence to show up.

Any idea if exposure to extreme temperatures (0 degrees to around 100 degrees F) will hurt celox powder if left in a truck?

What I always have on me is:
- 4sevens Preon2 flashlight
- Leatherman PS4
- Cellphone
- Four Nitrile gloves (not sterile)
- Four 1"x3" adhesive bandages, one 2"x4" adhesive bandage
- Sugar-free coughdrops
- Antiseptic wipe
- Two packets of Bacitracin ointment, 1gram each
- Bunch of ibuprofen tablets, 200mg each
- Bunch of "baby" asperine, 80mg each
- Bunch of anti-diarrheal capsuls (loperamide hydrochloride 2mg each)
- Bunch of antacid tablets

In my truck:
- Four Nitrile gloves (not sterile)
- Two 6" NAR Trauma dressings (bandage)
- SWAT-T Tournique
- Celox powder, 35gram
- Halo Chest Seal (2 pk)

In my range bag:
- Two 6" "Isreali" bandages

In my laptop case:
- 2 pair nitrile gloves
- Several antiseptic wipes
- Anti-Itch cream (Hydrocortisone 1%, 1oz tube)
- Triple antibiotic ointment (Neomycin, Polymyxin B Sulfate, Bacitracin, 1oz tube)
- Hand sanitizer (6% ethyl alchohol, 1.5 fl oz bottle)
- Celox Trauma Gauze
- Halo Chest Seal (2 pk)
- SWAT-T tourniquet
- NAR 4" Trauma dressing
- Nasophyngeal Airway (28 fr) w/ lube*
- Bunch of ibuprofen tablets, 200mg each
- Bunch of  asperine, 325mg each
- Bunch of anti-diarrheal pills

*I have no training with this, but it was free so I threw it in with everything else.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This post just reminded me that you can never have too many gloves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gloves are 1st and foremost to protect the care giver then the patient.

Clean gloves are good unused gloves are great sterile gloves are only sterile till you open them and if you are in the field they aren't any better then unused gloves
So save your money by a box of gloves that fit and bag a coupe vacuum pack a couple pair so you always know that you have a couple clean pair.
You can also buy 4x4 sponges and vacuum pack them in smaller packs so you can open a small pack and only have to worry about using/losing a bit at a time (due to contamination)

.02

-Gloves(as many as you can fit in there)
-gauze(4x4s; again get as many as you can) the pressure dressings you have are good but those take time to apply and sometimes you don't need to waste them when taping a few 4x4s can better and much cheaper
-compression bandage(Ace wraps)
-tape(2" 3M)
-head lamp

Nice post.  I'd like to add some feedback, if I may...
4x4's.  As many as you can get.  I'd have a few sterile, then a bunch of bulk.  Usually you can buy 50 or 100 pack bulk 4x4's pretty cheap,  I take handfuls out and throw them into ziploc baggies.  Keeps them from ALL getting ruined if you're bloody when you  reach for them, if some get wet (bags leak, right?) you don't ruin them all, and you can always grab a pack and toss it to someone that may be at the other end of a patient, or on a second patient.  Throw an ACE over it and you've got a decent pressure dressing.

Gloves. Ditto the above.  You can buy cheap gloves at Home Depot or Lowe's. (painting section, I think).  Actually, you can usually get the N-95 masks (outdoors section) or sometimes regular dust masks there too.  

Coban.  Not a fan usually. However, the Army just sent a bunch of "new" bandages to our BAS for evaluation.  They're rolled black coban, with a 4" x 6" foam pad instead of guaze.  Sort of like an israeli bandage.  We call it the "ho-hos" bandage.  Haven't used it yet, just played with them.  Not a fan of them - way too long - but an interesting idea.  

Combat gauze - replacing the granular celox or quick-clot.  Impregnated kerlix, basically.  Doesn't have that pesky problem of granules embolizing downstream that the earlier stuff did.  

Tourniquet - definetely a time and place.  Not so much in civilian land however.  Would it hurt to have?  No.  Cheap insurance, so why not?  Just need to be schooled on the how/why and if you're putting it on, are you prepared for that person to lose that limb?  Cuz if it's not off in 6-8 hours, you might have a nice lawsuit on your hands.  "But I saved their life" doesn't mean shit in court.

Dermabond - don't get that shit near your eyes.  Super glue works fine. so do butterflies.  I'd rather not close a wound that hasn't been cleaned. Plus, if it's too deep, you just sealed in a big hole, which is a nice warm dark spot for infection to hang out.... enjoy that abscess.  At least with butterflies the pus can work its way out.

Saline - agree w/ the theromasil.  Most drug stores, ie walgreen's, sell sterile saline, betadine, etc.  In a pinch regular bottled water tends to be clean enough to irrigate.

My truck's FAK is markedly different than my deployed FAK.  If there's enough interest I can post pics, but I'd rather not clutter up this thread.

That time and place is if Direct Pressure Fails - Both Pre-Hospital Trauma Life Support and the National Registry of Emergency Medical Technicians now say the if direct pressure fails you go to a tourniquet.  No more pressure points, no more elevation, Direct Pressure then Tourniquet.  Yes you must put it on correctly and you should have a proper tourniquet - not a phone cord or belt in order for it work correctly.  An improvised tourniquet might work but more than likely you are going to just stop the venous blood and not the arterial blood leading to compartment syndrome or worse the patient still bleeds to death.  

Application of a tourniquet is not a advanced level skill in the medical field, it is taught in basic first aid classes, because of this I am pretty sure you would be protected under the Good Sam act and would be taken to court.  Plus because of the data available on tourniquet use it would be a pretty good defense in court IF it did make it there.  There is very little instances (around 1%) of a patient losing a limb or developing tissue or nerve damage secondary to the application of a tourniquet. I will take those chances any day of the week to stop a severe arterial hemorrhage.  

If you are going to use one, get a CAT or SOF-T Wide, these have proven results in Iraq and A-Stan and cost the same or less then others on the market.  

Stay Safe

Agreed.  But, the difference is, in-theater, most of the medics that have been around a while know how to take a TQ off if needed.  Which usually doesn't happen, since most causalities make it to a BAS, Role 2, STP, etc in plenty of time.

If you're in a long-term, SHTF, everything-closed situation, you may have to take it off or risk the limb.  

Good Sam act doesn't cover folks with training.  One could even argue, if you learned it in Boy Scout first aid, that you should know about the risks, and are thus more liable....

don't die on me

"CLEAR!"

Great thread. To any kit, I suggest:

Add even more gloves. You can never have too many. Sometimes they stick together. Sometimes they tear. Sometimes they are a handy way to wad up a particularly nasty piece of medical waste you're holding in your hand. Sometimes they are useful for shooting at your buddy across the room (clean gloves, of course). You can even clip part of a glove finger & use the glove as a makeshift CPR shield. They can be occlusive dressings for chest wounds, flutter valves for needles in the chest or tourniquets for IV starts, both well beyond the scope of this discussion. With a Sharpie, they can be made into smiley face or turkey balloons to help a child not think as much about his injury or dead parent.

Nitrile is good. Powder free nitrile is even better; some of us get terrible skin irritation from the powder. Buy a size larger than you think you need, since wet & sweaty hands don't play well with gloves being put on.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Double or triple glove when you can at the start of an incident.

THis thread has grown in into a monster.

But it's a good happy monster....... lately it's a glove monster

There is some good info in this thread, and some bad...
The good sam laws DO in fact cover people with training, in fact it was designed for people with training, not to cover folks that didnt have any training.
Paraphrased it means your coverd to the LEVEL of YOUR TRAINING, if acting in good faith.

Tournys,  IT is common teaching now FOR EVERYONE from first aid to Docs that they go on if bleeding cannot be stopped by direct pressure.  
Relief of a tourny once applied is a no go.  You cannot be sued for limb loss etc if your trained in its use and your acting in good faith.
Generaly speaking you will get the pt to the hospital before perminate damage occurs anyway.

On giant gear bags and stuffed full hard cases, they have their place, as a resupply.  In the field (both combat and civvie here) the "more the better" is  misleading.
for example my jump bag at work does not have more than 10 4x's and about 5 rolls of kerlex.  I dont keep 500 gloves in it either.
Basically what  Ithink I will need for 3 pts plus some extra of the main use items.  I have resupply in the rig or off the truck.  
Unless yur going combat ready to much stuff is more of problem.  Even going combat ready, it is not my job to carry enough supplies for hte entire element,  you carry your own shit.
or ill use mine and resupply of your stuff.  I carried the basic esentials to cover three guys, if the shits worse than that we screwed and better have reinforcments/air support/ medivac.

off duty I have a bag that amounts to a really big first aid kit.  I never carry ALS anything with me off work. never.  BLS fine, got it. (oral and nasal airways are about the closest thing).

Moral of my post.. Dont over do it, Dont have a bag so stuffed you cant find what your looking for, and dont be ricky rescue and you have nothing to worry about.

besides maybe a BVM the CLS small bag is plenty of room.



EDIT TO AD... thanks OP for posting this, I see far to many gotta have it all in a bag, guys.  Sometimes less is more...

Thought I would add some tricks form my trade.  
A BP cuff is a great TQ.  You can inflate it just enough to cut off bloodflow.  
A sharpie has many uses.  Finally found that distal pulse on a foot? worried about finding it again?  one swipe with a sharpie will make it easy to find later. put the time of TQ on the pt's forehead or near the TQ.  Mark where the redness is on a case of cellulitis so you can look again after antibiotics are give.  
You never have enough gloves..........ever.
headlights are worth their weight in gold.
Add some betadine or iodine solution in your kit.  Helps to keep things clean.  alcohol works too.
hydrogen peroxide is necrotic.  It will not help a wound.  It will make it worse.  Only good for cleaning and as an oral antiseptic.


Now post some pics of your kits.

I don't think this is accurate at all and needs to be addressed.  I've seen plenty of people who are only alive today because of tourniquets, some of them because I put them there.  I have seen guys requiring tourniquets to stop bleeding not able to get medevac for almost an hour as well.  A tourniquet is one of the most important trauma tools you can carry.  I saw a guy a few months ago leaking like a faucet from a severed limb that stopped as soon as the windlass hit 4-5 turns.



Tourniquets can be applied for up to 4 hours without negative effect, the stigma against them in the civilian trauma world is astounding, and only in line with old-school tradition and practice.  Tourniquets have gone on soldiers daily in combat for over ten years now without negative impact.





 

The military also has their own modes of transport and care on call, 24/7 anywhere they are needed. no excuses. First hands on is in less than a 1min for most cases as most units have trained personnel with them.

Civilians do not have those resources and may have to wait for 30min for a first responder (most cases less than 10min) then they still have to stabilize and transport. then trip to Hospital which could be 10min to an hour.

I believe this thread is about basic medical care and not exceeding your training/comfort level.
Do I own a torny? yes
Would I use it?  possibility but only if 1) the injury would cause a bleedout in less than an hour (estimating early on) 2) I knew there was no other choice because help was more than a 10min response time away


But that's just what I think

That is not always the case. I have seen an individual that stepped on a land mine wait almost 4 hours for aerial medevac.  I myself was not able to get a medevac in Iraq for almost 10 hours after being hit with a grenade.  Your assessment of "no excuses" is false, as I have also seen a double amputee die because air status was black and medevac birds were not flying that day.  





Tourniquets have held up just fine for ten minute trips to a role 3 as well as through several hours of waiting.  The timeline of evacuation to a medical facility has not been a variable in their use, nor a consideration as to when to use them.  



A tourniquet is about as basic as one can get, so I do think they should have a big place in this thread.  Asking untrained personnel to assess the level of bleeding in a casualty and then rely on phases of direct and indirect pressure is much worse than simply telling them to slap on a tourniquet if they have the slightest hint that the bleeding may not stop easily.  Once again, in 10 years of wartime experience this practice has worked just fine.





 

I was just stating my preference for the use of a tourniquet . I would only feel comfortable using one under the most severe of circumstances.
And I say that as I have only had First responder training (not battle field exp).

As to the military transport.... I still believe that the military would and does a hell of  a lot better at transport times than civilian transport.


If a person feels comfortable applying a tourniquet to a patient and is trained in the application then that is the care giver's call.

Even in civi EMS I can drop a pt off at an ER and know that he won't be on the table for an hour at least.  Youy could be shot in the ER parking lot and need a TQ until the surgeon gets there.

LEts be nice guys. Agree to disagree. The tourny argument goes a long way back. I just dont think everyone should have a combat tourny kit on them at all times.

Have to agree with the OP about the TQ.  This thread seems to be aimed at someone with no/limited medical training.  With that being said, applying a tourniquet on someone who may not need it can do more harm than good.  There is also the issue of proper application. that being said, if bleeding cant be stopped any other way, an improvised tourniquet can be made with just about anything. Great thread!

I don't know if you guys will think this a good idea or not. But, I drew a detailed (yet easy to read/understand) diagram - which shows the contents & location of all the supplies, assembled kits and advanced tools and such I have in my biggest, portable 1st aid bag - which I keep in the transparent upper-lid-flap of that particular bag.

I figured it may not be me whose rooting through the bag - and it made sense that a reference like that would speed up treatment by minimizing wasted time - from looking for whatever is necessary/appropriate....

I figured it would also help prevent damage to things (unneeded at the time) too - stuff which didn't need to be torn out and/or dropped on the ground while someone's frantically fumbling around.

Does my logic seem sound to you guys?

*Great thread, btw.  

I think it's a great idea, and should consider doing it for my bag. Also would help with inventory & resupply.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

A quick note on Military transports being "faster" than civie...

1) Military medics are trained to a higher level to allow more independeant treatment of the pt. Advanced procedures are taught specifically because prompt transport may not and usually isnt availible, also generally wounds are very traumatic and usually life hazerdous by nature.
A Military medic is mostly on his own, transport may not come until after the fight is over.  The "golden hour, or Golden period" is just not feesable in most combat situations.
This is one reason for the High "Award/Medal" rate for military dust off pilots.  
Geneally speaking they wont risk a multi million dollar aircraft, or even a convoy to go get a single pt.  
It bears mentioning that our enemys learned a long long time ago that we take care of our wounded and in fact will wound to attract the big assets to put down. (blackhawk down?)

As far as a TQ going on faster in the Military, if your bleeding out, I have to stop that from happening, and treat others and defend myself, Tq is pretty good and that.


2) Civiliam medics have no need for the advanced procedure(according to the powers that be) because transport is almost always availible either by land or air.(thts the therory, dont kill the messenger)
The goal is still the golden hour or golden period. One has only to be held in staging by LEO's once to see the frustration this brings.  It is understood that the time it takes for the more advanced procedures is better spent gettig the pt to a trauma/stroke/cardiac/burn center.

All in all Civilian medics transport time SMOKES military transport time.
The Military does indeed have a more advanced system and asset availibility, however in practice it just doesnt beat clear highways, uncrowded airspace and a hospital in every major town( not to mention no bad guys throwing lead and blowing stuff up).
Just my thoughts

Sounds like a great Idea, also consider, using three in tape and labeling each carpartment as to what it holds, I use a big fat perminant marker to write on the tape, also I use the cheap pencil cases from wallymart to sepereate things within a carpartment, they are .97 cents and come in many colors.
For example
Red for small wound, red for large wound ( labeled SM WOUND/LG WOUND)
Blue for tools/diagnostics  (labeled TOOLS)
Green for airway stuff (labeled AIRWAY)
yellow for meds      (MEDS)
Orange for burn      (BURN)

I am looking for an empty M3 and an M17 bag to build my own. Anyone know who makes good ones?

M3 would be nice if everything fits neatly. The M17 is huge and maybe more than is necessary.
 [/quote]

M17s perfect for a car bag though. Thats what I carry in my car.

Found this one in red that I was looking for but no one has it in stock and Voodoo Tactical does not respond to emails.
http://www.opsgear.com/index/page/product/product_id/2497/category_id/379/category_chain/379/product_name/Medical+Series+Supply+Bag



M17s perfect for a car bag though. Thats what I carry in my car.[/quote]



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Exercising my new found Team Member status of " TAG " for future reference.

As a NREMT-Paramedic currently working in the streets with OIF combat experience I have to say there are many excellent posts with extremely useful information in this thread.  Here are a few additions that may be useful:

BSI/PPE (Body Substance Isolation/Personal Protective Equipment)
Small bottle of hand-sanitizer:  Even after patient contact and subsequent rendering of medical aid, you need to clean your hands.  In a MVC (Motor Vehicle Collision) type scenario, access to soap and water will be non-existent in most cases.  Quick and easy decon.  Wet-wipes in the small travel sizes can also be utilized for this purpose.
Trash-Bags: We have bio-hazard bags to place bloody clothes into for personal decon once back at the station, a trash bag can serve the same purpose.  Can be used as a seat cover if you accidentally knelt/sat in blood.  As stated previously a cheap plastic Poncho has dual roles in weather protection, covering a patient, isolating soiled clothing/equipment.  
Clothes:  For either yourself, the patient, or the patient family members.  In an extraordinary display of compassion, I have seen men literally take the shirt off their backs to use as a bandage or as a pillow for someone laying on wet concrete.  Just something to consider.
Hydrogen Peroxide:  Useful in decontaminating personal items you may have touched with blood and are not disposable (i.e. keys, sunglasses).  Alcohol wipes can be used as an alternative.

Storage/Organization
Zip-lock bags:  Different sizes (gallon/quart/pint) and qualities (freezer/light-weight).  I store all bandages in Ziploc bags for weather-proofing purposes to maintain sterility and organization.  This same concept is applied in my GHB to keep clothing dry and separating clean/soiled laundry.
In my opinion, Pelican cases are heavy and cumbersome (at least in suitcase type dimensions).  However, I can see some benefit in keeping medications in a small one.
Labels:  Color-coded, short and simple.  Useful in quick identification and inventory of supplies.

continued...

Documentation
Small Note-Pad:  Documenting important information like vital signs, medical history (medications, allergies, ect.).  This is my suggestion, and it is by no means necessary.  I've found "Rite-In-The-Rain" notepads work very well out in the field.
Permanent Marker:  Writes pretty much anywhere and on anything.  "Rite-In-The-Rain" also makes all-weather pens, although they are expensive.

The bag I'm currently running is a 5.11 Responder 24 backpack I got on sale from Galls.com.  I could only find one decent picture of the bag online, as I have yet to take any of my own (which I will try to remedy):



I wanted several things when I chose this pack:
Something RED - easily identifiable for someone to grab in an emergency.  
Light-weight and portable enough for both the young and old (in case they need to grab it).
Medic-inspired organization and storage.
Durable enough for emergency situations (Search and Rescue, hurricane/disaster activations).

I'm sure I'll think of more as this thread evolves.  Pictures of everybody's different FAK's would be nice as well.

Keeping this around, valuable info.

Good to see its still here. Im still playing with my set up as the alice frame was killing me

What about rubbing alcohol? aloe? In the case of a GSW would it be better to take out the bullet or leave it in (assuming a hospital is not an option(I am not a criminal lol))?   I had some more questions but, forgot what they were. I will add when I think of them.

Im not too up on bullet removal. Maybe others can chime in. Location of the round has a lot to do with removal and also the risk of sepsis and bleeding.