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Quarterbore
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Posted: 9/1/2009 2:32:58 PM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2009 4:09:19 PM by Quarterbore]
I have been looking for a drum for bulk water storage and I was planning to add a 55-gal drum (closed top and buy a siphon to transfer to portable containers or to swap out water) but I have seen a number of the 30-gal containers and I am starting to debate if it would be better to have a couple smaller barrels over one big one.

For example -
15gal barrel is about 6lb and 15 gal of water x 8.35lb/gal gives a full weight of 131.25 pounds
30gal barrel is about 19lb and 30 gal of water x 8.35lb/gal gives a full weight of 269.50 pounds
55gal barrel is about 22lb and 55 gal of water x 8.35lb/gal gives a full weight of 481.25 pounds

I am starting to think that the 30-gal drums may be the best compromise as it would be possible to transport this size even though it will require an appliance dolly to move it. Note that most of the 15-gal drums I have seen do not have a removable top (closed top) while 30 and 55-gal drums come in both closed and open tops (open meaning we can remove lid). An advantage of the closed top would be less chance of contamination and as long as we only use water I assume it is fine to not be able to remove the top.

Secondly, those using these HFPE #2 food grade drums, do you also use a liner? Obviously this is only an issue if you have an OPEN TOP drum and I have found websites that sell liners for both the 30 and 55 gal drums and I have also looked at the old military water manuals and I know they talk about liners but those were in relation to water stored in steel drums. I guess an advantage to using a liner is you could remove any air in the bag but the liner also provides a way for the water to become contaminated. My guess is that as long as we are using proper food grade barrels that the liners are of no value. Does anybody have an opinion one way or another?

Finally, do those of you that have barrels of drinking water have faucets or other drains in your barrels or do you use a siphon or some type of bung pour plan to use the water? My guess is that the faucet add a risk of contamination or leak that does not really provide value for an emergency water supply. I think a siphon to transfer the bulk water to an LCI or Scepter style water can would be more versatile solution and some of the pumps that drop into a drum are reasonably inexpensive as well.

I have been looking at my basement where I plan to but the drums and I need to decide how much space I need and how I will use them to finalize plans. Then, I need to find a place to get the drums but I see food grade drums on a somewhat regular basis so that should not be too difficult. I will buy the drums before I build the racks just in case I get something I had not planned on but I figured I would ask those that have been here already what you think.

Thanks in advance!

15 gal - closed top:


30 gal - closed top:


55 gal - closed top:


55 gal - open top:
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propguy
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Posted: 9/1/2009 7:21:52 PM
Tag ???????????????? can I tag?
GaCracker
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Posted: 9/1/2009 9:24:57 PM
Just use a filter.
Then you don't have to analyze it so much.

I know. I'm kinda' simple like that.
55-gallon closed top. I can also store it from anywhere, as long as I need to.

Katahdyn makes great stuff.
biere
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Posted: 9/2/2009 10:48:56 PM
Originally Posted By propguy:
Tag ???????????????? can I tag?


Buy a membership and you can tag. I think that is still the only way to do it.

As far as the original post goes, my 55 gallon open top drums do not have the bung holes so I use these for bulk storage of stuff like toilet paper and what not. My drums originally had tomato paste in a bag and that was in the drum. The drums took a bit of cleaning, I am lazy and just used some water and a friends front yard to roll the drums around and clean em and rinse em and play around with them for a bit. This is out in the country so it did not look too bad out there, in the burbs I bet the neighbors would have been wondering what was going on.

I am happy with how clean my drums are and do not see a need for me to get a liner for how I want to use the drum. If I was going to store rice or wheat or water in them I very well might get a liner because as I said my lids don't have bung holes so I get to remove the whole lid to get to what is inside.

I figure the smaller drums with the bungs are what I will store liquid in. Anytime I get my hands on a container where the whole top comes off I start wanting to pack stuff into it.

I have a 2 wheel dolley as well as a beat up 55gallon drum dolley, the drum dolley is more for taking an upright drum and rolling the dolley and drum over so the dolley becomes a stand and the drum is up in the air a foot and a half or so.

I plan on some smaller size drums and some larger drums as well. The smaller ones give you options if you wind up using all the water up and then need to go refill them somewhere.

I plan to leave the bungs in place and when I need to use the water I will remove the bung and add a faucet or something if I plan to use the water here and there. If I plan to empty it then I will be able to rig up a hose or siphon or something depending on what my needs are.

These days I find myself messing around with some plumbing odds and ends that are used for coolers or cmpers or whatever. I like being able to buy something and rig up different ways of doing things.

But for getting started I am darn happy with a simple ball valve and some clean hose that is adequate for drinking water.

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CTRob65
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Posted: 9/3/2009 6:52:39 AM
I have a couple 55 gallon closed-top water barrels I bought from Emergency Essentials a while back before they raised prices. I then picked up an emergency water piston from ebay. This combination is awesome and I can get fresh water by the gallon out of the barrels almost as fast as out of the tap. The 55 gallon barrels can be moved by one person, but they're pretty thin and do flex a lot so I don't recommend doing it too many times.

I would think this emergency water piston has enough force to pump the water up and out a basement window if you don't have a walk-out basement or sump hole. You do need to plan on rotating the water so plan accordingly.

Some miscellaneous thoughts ...

The 55 gallon barrels are designed to be stood on end. Their sidewalls are reported to be too weak to be supported laying down. However, if you build a fully supporting, flat surface for the sidewalls I would think you'd be okay. They just take up more room laying down (this statement is made with half a cup of morning coffee in my system so please don't hold me to it )

When you first get the barrels, fill them up with water and add regular, unscented bleach at a rate of 1 teaspoon for every 10 gallons (there will be a strong bleach smell). Let this sit for about a month and then empty. Refill with water and this time use 1/2 teaspoon for every 10 gallons. This ratio is enough to disinfect tap water only and the bleach odor/taste will be non-existent.

I have a back-up siphon hose as seen here. It works okay until the water level gets to be about one third full. Then the siphon action doesn't work any more. I also use this siphon hose with the siphon hose adapter so I can run the hose outside (walkout basement) when it's time to cycle the water. This combination gets the water level down enough so I can just roll the barrels to the door and tip them down to finish draining them.

If you do stand the barrels up on end, be sure they have a barrier such as wood or sheetrock between them and the concrete floor. Supposedly chemicals from the cement floor can leach into the water.
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Posted: 9/3/2009 8:24:55 AM
quarterbore loves talking about water storage just so he can say the word bung over and over...

IMHO I'd go w/a size that you can pick up or at least wrastle around, even if you have a deidicated system etc, there may come a day when you have to move it, and possibly risk having to waste some to make it light enough to move, or if contamination gets in, you only contaminate a smaller portion of a few different containers vs one big one.

I'd think that smaller is better in this case (ie around 20gallons or so)... with BUNGS!!!
Quarterbore
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Posted: 9/3/2009 9:21:30 AM
The smaller barrels are tougher to find and I found a guy locally that said he gets 30-gal closed tops with BUNG HOLES that had soy sauce. I am trying to see if he can get me two of those and I think I could make due with those. Right now he has a couple that contained some type of soap and I am seriously considering buying those (instead of holding out for soy drums) as it will be easy for me to wash out soap and I can fill the drums with water a couple times and let it sit to leach out any residual soap that would be left.

I am still looking and if I could find a bunch of the 15-gal drums I do agree that four of them would be far easier to move and use then a pair of 30gal units. Some of the 15s also have a handle and are designed to have a spout threaded into them (One BUNG and the second hole is a smaller 3/4 hole where plumbing or a faucet could be added)...

I did find a place that sells "reconditioned" 15-gal drums and they say they have free shipping:
http://www.bayteccontainers.com/rcwb15.html

I can buy them new for the same price here (plus shipping):
http://www.airseacontainers.com/prod02_Drums_02-poly.htm

I also sent an e-mail for a quote on four of these shipped:
http://www.thecarycompany.com/containers/drums.html#15gal
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Quarterbore
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Posted: 9/3/2009 12:30:53 PM
[Last Edit: 9/3/2009 1:59:46 PM by Quarterbore]
I found a place to buy barrels from and I ordered two for now until I can look them over. These were used to hold Dr Pepper soda syrup and with shipping it worked out to be $41 for two of the 15-gal barrels. The shipped cost for two more (4 total) was double what I paid so I decided to just buy two and if I like them I will come back and buy two more in a week. My goal is to have four of these and then I think I will be set for water storage at long last.

Here is where I got them:
http://www.reusablebarrels.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=rb15gbh





At least these I know are safe to use for water and I can man handle these even easier then the 30s I was considering.


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Posted: 9/3/2009 12:58:53 PM
[Last Edit: 9/3/2009 1:04:13 PM by Ghost013]
I have a 55 gallon closed top with a spigot. PLEASE remember when draining to OPEN one of the top fill holes (felt like a total dumbass when my drum was all caved in and still had half the water left in it when I went to fill it back up a few days later)

I want to get 1 more eventually.

EDIT to add––why are people adding bleach to already good water? Maybe I read something wrong. I thought bleach was to help decontaminate water NOT needed for already good drinking water. I drain and replace my water every 9 months or so.

EDIT2 to add–– I made a top cover for mine that goes out 6-8 inches around the top of the barrel and used/connected a thick tarp to it to shade the whole drum.
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Posted: 9/3/2009 3:19:13 PM
I bought three of the blue 15 gallon drums from Sportsmans Warehouse a few years ago. I was going to get a couple more but our local store closed just recently.
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Posted: 9/3/2009 3:47:05 PM
Originally Posted By pilot4x4:
I bought three of the blue 15 gallon drums from Sportsmans Warehouse a few years ago. I was going to get a couple more but our local store closed just recently.



I got a couple there too, plus I bought one 15 gal from an internet source. I have some 55 gals for yard water storage, and the 55 gal drums are likely the most stored water for the buck$. But like the 15 gal drums, 'cause I can actually move them full (not that it's easy). Also, if in case of a power outage where water is still available, I can use the 15 gal drums to take the local fuel dealer and have them filled with kerosene. This is how I normally store kerosene.
But then again, I just need to get my post count up.
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Posted: 9/4/2009 4:30:49 PM

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
I found a place to buy barrels from and I ordered two for now until I can look them over. These were used to hold Dr Pepper soda syrup and with shipping it worked out to be $41 for two of the 15-gal barrels. The shipped cost for two more (4 total) was double what I paid so I decided to just buy two and if I like them I will come back and buy two more in a week. My goal is to have four of these and then I think I will be set for water storage at long last.

Here is where I got them:
http://www.reusablebarrels.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=rb15gbh

http://www.reusablebarrels.com/v/vspfiles/photos/rb15gbh-2.gif

http://www.reusablebarrels.com/v/vspfiles/photos/rb15gbh-3.gif

At least these I know are safe to use for water and I can man handle these even easier then the 30s I was considering.





These 15 gallon barrels are just what I've been looking for..........my cost including shipping = $44.24.

Probably come back in the spring and get a couple of 40's for my garden water.



5sub
Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.”
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CTRob65
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Posted: 9/4/2009 7:17:20 PM
Originally Posted By Ghost013:

EDIT to add––why are people adding bleach to already good water? Maybe I read something wrong. I thought bleach was to help decontaminate water NOT needed for already good drinking water. I drain and replace my water every 9 months or so.


Speaking only for myself ...

I add bleach for cheap insurance. Yes, I change out the water on a regular basis, but being that I didn't make the water barrels, nor do I know who did, I don't trust them with my and my loved one's lives. I know bleach won't kill everything someone might contaminate a barrel with, but it will do a number on quite a few things. And why stop adding bleach after the first or second time. For mere pennies per 55 gallons it's pretty cheap insurance.

Also, I fill my barrels from a garden hose that has filtered well water running through it. The filtered water does not filter microbes, but the tests I have done on it tells me that I don't need that type of filtration. What's to stop it from changing in between barrel fills with me not realizing it? Also, I run the water through the hose for a few minutes to get fresh water, but have I surely gotten out all the contaminates from the hose?

If you fill from the city tap, I would still add bleach. They're finding new things in the water every day that have filtered through the soil from dumps and what-not.

Bottom line is I add bleach for a little peace of mind, some insurance and because it's cheap and doesn't do a lick of harm.
Quarterbore
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Posted: 9/4/2009 10:03:00 PM
After "the colony" this week I was looking at the Ozone generators out there and I noticed that HPDE is not affected by ozone. I am not sure I want to invest in a complicated ozone system but on the other hand our LCI water cans and any #2 marked container is HDPE so a system that could chew up organic molecules might be a good thing. I am studying it more for now but some of the smaller hot tub ozonators are about $150 for example the one here:

http://www.braintuner.com/ozonators.htm

I need more time to study the science and microbiology of these but if the science is there I may be tempted to take a drum and add a barb where ozone could be added to the bottom of a drum to sanitize if not sterilize the water. In an emergency, you could ionize water in a big drum and once it has been treated it could be transferred to smaller containers for storage or use.

Now, for survival preps, I would want the system to run off 12v too. Anyways, this should be a new thread but I have not really had the time to study the science to understand how this could be done or how effective it would be but it is something I am trying to figure out.
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Posted: 9/5/2009 9:02:05 AM
hit up TJ... he's one of those microsmartbiotypeguyologists or whatever
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Posted: 9/8/2009 5:59:41 PM
Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
I found a place to buy barrels from and I ordered two for now until I can look them over. These were used to hold Dr Pepper soda syrup and with shipping it worked out to be $41 for two of the 15-gal barrels.


I'd like to get one with the syrup still in it for my long term Dr Pepper supply.

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Posted: 9/8/2009 7:02:45 PM
Originally Posted By brazos609:
Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
I found a place to buy barrels from and I ordered two for now until I can look them over. These were used to hold Dr Pepper soda syrup and with shipping it worked out to be $41 for two of the 15-gal barrels.


I'd like to get one with the syrup still in it for my long term Dr Pepper supply.



Contact a local supplier for a fast food place. McD's gets bulk coke in 75 gallon quantities. IIRC last time I talked with the supply driver 75 gallons of coke syrup was around $350-400.
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Posted: 9/8/2009 11:04:11 PM

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
I found a place to buy barrels from and I ordered two for now until I can look them over. These were used to hold Dr Pepper soda syrup and with shipping it worked out to be $41 for two of the 15-gal barrels. The shipped cost for two more (4 total) was double what I paid so I decided to just buy two and if I like them I will come back and buy two more in a week. My goal is to have four of these and then I think I will be set for water storage at long last.

Here is where I got them:
http://www.reusablebarrels.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=rb15gbh

http://www.reusablebarrels.com/v/vspfiles/photos/rb15gbh-2.gif

http://www.reusablebarrels.com/v/vspfiles/photos/rb15gbh-3.gif

At least these I know are safe to use for water and I can man handle these even easier then the 30s I was considering.





These 15 gallon barrels are just what I've been looking for..........my cost including shipping = $44.24.

Probably come back in the spring and get a couple of 40's for my garden water.



5sub

Did you get yours?

I was looking for contact info and where I can pick-up I don't see a phone #, address or e-mail on their site!

I was looking to buy 10 until I saw they only accepted payapl, and had no way for me to contact them and do a phone order :(
Quarterbore
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Posted: 9/9/2009 8:43:30 AM
It took them about 5-days to ship as I just got a ship notice yesterday that they were being shipped USPS Priority Mail. I expect I should have mine by Saturday and I will post pics when I get them. I am curious to see how clean they are or how difficult it is to get the syrup out of the barrels. That was the reason I didn't buy double what I did (I ordered two).
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ToddWW
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Posted: 9/9/2009 11:45:00 AM

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
It took them about 5-days to ship as I just got a ship notice yesterday that they were being shipped USPS Priority Mail. I expect I should have mine by Saturday and I will post pics when I get them. I am curious to see how clean they are or how difficult it is to get the syrup out of the barrels. That was the reason I didn't buy double what I did (I ordered two).

Good call on cleaning them out, I guess if it's pretty difficult it brings the value down.

Let us know how easy it is to clean ;) Maybe a water/vinegar solution for a day then slosh around...
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Posted: 9/9/2009 11:57:54 AM
[Last Edit: 9/9/2009 12:00:33 PM by 5subslr5]

Originally Posted By ToddWW:

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
I found a place to buy barrels from and I ordered two for now until I can look them over. These were used to hold Dr Pepper soda syrup and with shipping it worked out to be $41 for two of the 15-gal barrels. The shipped cost for two more (4 total) was double what I paid so I decided to just buy two and if I like them I will come back and buy two more in a week. My goal is to have four of these and then I think I will be set for water storage at long last.

Here is where I got them:
http://www.reusablebarrels.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=rb15gbh

http://www.reusablebarrels.com/v/vspfiles/photos/rb15gbh-2.gif

http://www.reusablebarrels.com/v/vspfiles/photos/rb15gbh-3.gif

At least these I know are safe to use for water and I can man handle these even easier then the 30s I was considering.





These 15 gallon barrels are just what I've been looking for..........my cost including shipping = $44.24.

Probably come back in the spring and get a couple of 40's for my garden water.



5sub

Did you get yours?

I was looking for contact info and where I can pick-up I don't see a phone #, address or e-mail on their site!

I was looking to buy 10 until I saw they only accepted payapl, and had no way for me to contact them and do a phone order :(


Nope......just got my shipping notice yesterday. (Shipped 9/08/09 via Parcel Post.)


5sub
Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.”
(A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer’s hands.)

Lucius Annaeus Seneca, circa 45 AD
monkeyman
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Posted: 9/9/2009 8:19:05 PM
I bought 5 55 gallon drums from a local soft drink bottler back in 1999. They cost me $10 ea.

I cleaned them out, put bleach and water in them to sanitize the barrels and then filled them with tap water. After sitting in my basement for 5 years I checked them. One had alge in it. Apparently I didn't seal the bung properly. The other 4 were fine. I tested the water and it was fine. I cleaned the bad one and replaced the water in all. Checked them again this summer. All five had good water which I replaced.
Quarterbore
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Posted: 9/9/2009 8:37:12 PM
I am still studying the ozonators that are sold for hot tubs. I have found a couple that are under $100 and I am thinking about getting one. I figure I could bubble ozone into a drum of water to sanitize both the barrel and the water in it. I just wish I still worked in a lab (I am a microbiologist) but these days I don't have a place that I could actually do micro testing on the water before or after treatment to see if ozone actually can sanitize as well as they say it does.
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Quarterbore
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Posted: 9/13/2009 9:29:23 AM
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 1:33:25 PM by Quarterbore]
I got my barrels on Friday and they are AWESOME! So nice that I ordered two more. Here are some photos and details on how I cleaned mine. It did take some work but frankly I could not imagine how you could completely clean a 30 or 55gal drum after working to get these little guys clean. Also note, I discovered I am not man enough to just pick these up when full so they are as big as I would want for water now that I see just how heavy they are!

First, the barrels were Dr Pepper Syrup - Sticky and smelled like Dr Pepper


Outside of the drums were clean


Insides were coated with thick black soda syrup




Only one of the two small bung hole caps came with a gasket


Both of the large Bungs had gaskets


Getting the syrup out - No pics sorry...

To get the syrup out, what I did was put about 2-3 gallons of water in the drums and shook the heck out of them. I did this half a dozen or more times before the water coming out looked clear. Then I filled the barrel about half to three-quarters full and shook the barrel more with it sitting on the base. I then laid the barrel on it's side and rolled it around on the yard and dumped it out. That was repeated about twice as I used a flash light to look into the drum and I could see small patches of the syrup still stuck to the inside of the drum.

Next, we added a healthy squirt of dish detergent and added about 3-5 gallons of water. This I shook like crazy and I used a baby bottle brush to clean the bung hole threads and around the bungs.




No fapping to my soapy little bung hole fellas, get your own 15-gal drum if you want a soapy little bung to fap over


I rinsed the soap out and inspected the barrels again with a flashlight and the insides were spotless. So, I added about 1/4 cup (or more) of bleach to sanitize the barrels and filled them to the top making sure there was no air pockets.


I tightened down the bung caps and the drums sat over night...


This morning I dumped the bleach water and filled them with clean tap water. Note one of the additions I keep in my BOB is a faucet adapter to a hose and clear PVC hose for drinking water. I don't like having to drink from any random hose when SHTF so I bring my own adapter and hose:




One thing I figured out is I am going to want to get a bung wrench to tighten and loosen the bungs. I used a couple combination wrenches using the closed end to get the leverage I needed to loosen these but it was far from ideal. Here are a couple pics:





One sealed, the other is filling:


Time to move them to my cool, dark basement for storage! A hand cart is darn is handy as these weight about 140-pounds each.
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Quarterbore
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Posted: 9/13/2009 9:51:39 AM
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 1:09:34 PM by Quarterbore]
I found an aluminum bung wrench for just over $20 on EBAY and I decided to just buy that. Note that this has two ends, one for the large bung and the other end is built to open the small bung too... Some bung wrenches only have the big size so look and decide what you need before you buy...

Here is the one I got (from the auction)


Anyways, I think my water preps are about done now

We have in our preps now:
2- Hiker Pros w/extra filters
Water treatment Tablets
Concentrated pool shock (bleach)
two cases of 16-oz water bottles - 4 gal
six 20l LCI water cans - 30 gal
four 15-gal Drums - 120 gal
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
154 gallons of water

With 1 gal/person per day family of 6 -> that is nearly a 30-day supply of drinking water and the means to make more safe.

I am still looking at the ozone systems however....
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ToddWW
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Posted: 9/13/2009 8:47:45 PM
[Last Edit: 9/13/2009 8:51:20 PM by ToddWW]
Sweet

Ordering my 10 now!
They will complement my 50 5g water jugs nicely!!!

EDIT: Actually, I`m not.
Going to put that $ toward my 2nd 2500g well tank! Much more water for $/g !
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