Posted: 10/7/2006 4:38:29 PM
[Last Edit: 10/12/2006 6:16:31 AM by protus]
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
There's a Load of info on the web of what a BOB should be,what it shouldn't and what the best one is. BOB's are a personal thing. What works for me wont work for you.
But there are some important things a BOB should be.
It should fit you, it should hold the amount of gear you've deemed necessary and it should be loaded to a weight you can physically handle.
On avg a 3 day BOB for a single person should weigh between 25- 30 LB's .
Now, i say on avg. because its 3 days. for 3 days you can go through a lot with out a lot.
But you still must be shelter'd,fed and hydrated.
This set up will handle what most of us as "survivalist" will ever have to go through in our lives, and may even double as your once a year backpacking trip set up.
Now on a full bore "crunch" set up your pack weights will go up of course.
From what I've seen folks will chose a few styles of packs. basically i narrow it down to 3 styles.
Surplus/military- Alice/molle or other large framed military packs.
Civy- internal/external framed packs
New Mil spec- BFM,eagle and other "3 day assault" frame less packs.
I feel that a framed pack of sorts is the only way to go once a extended stay BOB is packed or you want more than 3 days of gear. My reason is most framed packs are above 3500 cubes. This gives you Plenty of space to carry 3-5 days of gear or 3 days of gear and extras( deep winter clothing or extra food and ammo)
I say framed because once you exceed 25-30lbs i feel most frame less packs lack the support needed for those loads. The frame also allows you to tie off and add extra to the pack with out much effort or "felt" increase in weight due to their design.
We see a lot of "what should i pack" or buy for my BOB. For every BOB you need to make sure you have your basics covered before ANYTHING else. These are water,food and shelter. With out those 3 you will succumb to the elements.
Water, you should always have a way to store and filter it. Some of the more popular ways to store water are bladders or water bags like the Camelbak or Platypus.
These are light weight and easy to store in your pack. For example, most folks use a 2-3 liter , then have a Dromedary bags bag or Nalgenebottles for while in camp.
These are some of the best bets going now days for storage and use IMHO. Some opt for the old USGI canteen. this is a good stand by but their main fault is their 1 qt. capacity. These work better for line 2 or fighting loads IMHO. For a BOB a bladder for on the go hydration is best. You must remember though you are sipping h20 not drinking large amounts, this is the only down fall of having a bladder only set up. So it is best to combine them or force yourself to drink constantly while on the go!
Water filters there are many on the market. Two good choices are the MSR filters and the Katadyn line of filters. all are light weight and are proven in the field by military and backpackers across the world. If you chose not to have a filter you need to have at least some water tablets.
Food, for 3 days it isn't much but you have to make sure that you have enough packed to ensure your body gets what it needs! There are many pack meals out there from the MRE to freeze dried. From a BOB aspect you need to have both"hot" and cold meals. When using your BOB you may not have a fire or the chance or ability to cook. Having some fast eats is important.
MRE's are the best for on the good foods BUT they are heavy,even when broken down. But they are a great source of what you need to stay on top of things.
Freeze drieds or dried foods like Mountain house are great for in camp or when you need a hot meal. Their main advantage is that they weigh very little, their down fall is the price.
Dried foods like rice,noodles and soup mixes are also a good choice. these are light, and very cheap.
I like to pack lipton rice/pasta sides with some foil packed chicken added to it. Ive had very good luck with these infield,cook times are fast,price is low and there is enough food to even feed 2 if need be. Normal packages weigh in around 5-7oz's!
I pack one of these each day for the dinner meals and No cook meals for lunch, like MRE entrees or the foil packed chicken with some spices, trail mix or a energy bar.
Bagged tuna can also be used in simple meals or by itself along with salmon or dried beef. Of course i can go on and on about different foods but these are pretty basic meals and ones used by the majority of folks with BOB's since they are shelf stable for long periods.
Shelter. This is a VERY AO dependant choice along with personal comfort levels.
The most common shelter is the tent. For a BOB id stay with something under 5lbs like the Eureka spitfire or the Exponet Inyo 2 A tent like that will normally run you 50-150$ for a name brand or more if you really want fancy. Your shelter is the 2nd bulkiest and Heaviest item in your BOB, side from ammo and water.
Tarp/poncho, this is a very common item in BOB's and everyone has them. A small ultra light tarp or poncho will shelter a person easily even in harsh weather,if the rest of their shelter system is in order. The tarp can also add extra protection,concealmet to your tent. as a raincover,ground cloth in winter or a cooking/dinning fly/wind break. some of the smaller tents its a warm welcome to stretch your legs under a fly to cook instead of leaning out and trying to do it all from inside.
Clothing. yes this is shelter. with out clothing your exposed to the elements. The clothing you pack in your BOB is also very AO dependant. but a good basic set up is this.
Spare socks. i suggest that a wool blend like Smartwool or for hotter temps a Lycra spandex blend. cotton socks will work in hotter climates but in colder climates you'll want the moisture wicking of the others.
base layer. This is what you'll wear in cold temps or at night. The most common are Poly pro's,Polar max, Under armour and its knock offs. These all insulate you and keep moisture away from your body. wet is dead IMHO.
Outer shell. this is everything from a basic nylon windbreaker to a goretex parka. this keeps the wind off you and the water. The newer fabrics these days also breath(goretex) This also helps keep down your pack weight. a light weight goretex shell with a heavy poly pro fleece liner will serve most well through the majority of temps through out the year.
Also this includes extra clothing BDu's, zip off pant/short combos, gloves, watch caps, balaclava etc.
Now you see why i said this will be one of the most bulkiest items in your BOB.
that's the basics of a BOB. there is a ton of stuff you can pack in your BOB but with out those 3 things your gonna be hurting! This isn't an end all list , as gear is personal choices, and i left out a lot. This way others can chime in on what gear has worked for them and Hopefully help out some of the newcomers that are packing their 1st BOB.
So now we have Food,shelter,water in your BOB.
These items are your 3 bulkiest items and sometimes the heaviest!
They are the 3 items you NEED to stay alive. Now what else would you want to carry in a BOB.
For one since you'll be using you BOB in a evac/stressful event you want a PLAN.
This doesn't go in your BOB(it could ) but its what will lead you to USE your BOB!
You ll want some tools,communications,nav gear and comfort items along with extras.
Tools- Tools are a wide variety of objects from a spare set of multi pliers to a decked out Mp5.
Some basic tools that a BOB should have or incorporate are-
multitool- a do all tool for small jobs and day to day work.
Knife- to stay basic you ll want a design that will do 99% of day to day work. Ive found that a good 4 -5 inch folder or fixed blade will do! My set up incorps the BK-7 along with my multitool and Gerber folder. i have large duty blades and the smaller folder/multiool for small work(also that's why there's a hacksaw blade in the sheath pouch )
Shovel- heavy item IMHO, and a waste of space. if you must a plastic garden trowel will work. most of what you need tis for is digging fire pits or to bury waste.
Axe/Saw- heavy item,, i think a axe is great but the large size is a big No no. the saw is the best bet IMHO. due to its size(Fiskars folding saw) and noise. an axe/hatchet you can hear for along ways off thump,,,thump,,,,thump.....
weapon- This is a tool that will vary form person to person.. for a NON tactical BO event the KISS rule applies. the most robust and simple to use weapon is the best choice. To me that would be a good bolt gun. I like the FR8 in 762x51nato.
again for a NON tactical use but with enough Umphh to take down what i need to!
sidearm- also a weapons tool. for our BOB... it should be a 22lr IMHO. your self defense sidearm should be part of your Line two or fighting gear NOT your BOB!
The 22lr sidearm is perfect for small game getting in a small compact package!
You've BO'd now what. When is it safe to go back, can you ever go back?
You need some way to communicate, be it am/fm/sw or HAM radio.
I don't really carry a lot of comms in my BOB because of their weight's and price right now.
I have a small am/fm/tv1-2 /noaa radio that is the size of a pack of cigs. Its my only Info gathering comms right now. besides my FRS/GRMS for P2P comm's.
Like weapons some ppl are heavy in this area.
You need to know where your going right? you do know don't you?
Nav gear is pretty basic.
a good compass that you KNOW how to use.
a good set of AO maps
a GPS- if you must
a set of batts for the GPS
know how to use the 1st two you wont need the GPS IMHO!
These items are the misc. fluff and stuff we all carry. That ect bic lighter or pocket bible!
these are personal items that will make you BO a Lil cushy or a Lil more relaxing. a good wipe down with a set of wipes after 5 day son the trail without a bath may be a god send to some. while that nice soft wash cloth is what does it for you..or just the chance to read a few lines out of your bible.
IMHO there is no limit or list of what comfort items should be.. but they should NEVER out weigh or be taken over what you NEED,,,,
Posted: 10/7/2006 5:15:27 PM
Other common things I think everyone should have:
-Zip ties: These are some of the lightest and handiest little doodads you can have.
-Multi-tool: Between one of these and zip-ties, you should be able to do anything.
-Spare batteries: For your flashlights, radios, optics, etc. Hopefully your battery-powered items all use the same kind of batteries, but never exceed two types (mine personally are AA and the Surefire 123-type).
Posted: 10/7/2006 5:18:56 PM
Thanks protus ;as always very concise and bullshit free.
Posted: 10/7/2006 5:21:55 PM
this should be tacked.
Posted: 10/7/2006 5:48:35 PM
Heres a few ideas to get you started on a gear list
something to hold water
change of cloths
Posted: 10/7/2006 5:52:00 PM
1 thing I don't see mentioned in any of the BoB posts is 1 or 2 contractor grade black plastic garbage bags.
They're lightweight, can double as emergency ponchos or solar stills, and ground cloths.
Just a thought.
Posted: 10/7/2006 5:52:48 PM
Awesome post, Protus.
One thing that I like to take that is not life or death is some way to entertain myself. A deck of cards, a paperback book, and/or an MP3 player that takes regular batteries are my favorites and don't add much weight.
Posted: 10/7/2006 6:26:37 PM
[Last Edit: 10/8/2006 7:59:38 AM by protus]
i carry 1-2 .3 mil contractor grade ones in my gear. they can double as shelter,,ground mats,, to keep my pack outside in the rain( just set the bagover the ruck LOL.
i figured you all would chime in with some list. which is great.
my view is that some look right past the basic step of a good pack and haveing what you need... they skip that and go for what they "want".... and end up sore and over loaded at days end.
on that note here is a list for my 3 day pack i have right now. its set up for Our FLA SF hike but the core stuffis the same as when its normally packed/sans ammo,extra FAK ect.
pack- 3 day
Alice Med w/frame6-7lb
3 - 2liter platypus bags .6 total
1- 2 liter bladder est .10
1- 1liter nalgene in my hand
Frontier filter .5
5x8ft custom tarp( on of my self made ones) 5.5 oz
OD xxl(for room to layer) nylon zip upoutter shell
Brit fleece soldier 95 liner
No name UA style ss shirt
wool blend socks
dikies Tan/black gloves
5x7 ground mat/tarp/windbreak( one i made ).4
Woodland camo Bivy sack1lb
50f rated 1.5lbs bag1.5lbs if used
add- slumberjack pack lite 2 0f rated bag4.5lbs if used
all clothing wrapped in the .3mil trash bag.3
2- lipton rice sides.7 each
2- 7oz packs of chicken.7 each
1- 3oz packof tuna.3
6- small single serv baggies of trail mixest .4
6- cliff bars
each meal is sperrated in its own zip lock. ipull out eat,,trash.
4-folgers coffee tea bags
1-lipton green tea
4-packs of honey- from popeyes
5- packs of hot sauce -popeyes
4- lil signle use pack sof ms.dash lemon garlic and grillspice
2- packs of the jelly belly electrolyte beans
2- packs of MRE drink mix
1- 4 cup SS cup
1- length of foil folded over(2ft worth)
1-spare MRE matches
BK7 with Blastmatch, small hacksaw blade and honeing stone in the sheath.
25ft of small dia camp rope
8 stakes alum.
2- insect repllant wipes-for fast use
BOB fishing kit
2- 1/2 rolls of TP
hygene kit- tooth brush,paste,wipes,eye drops, and 6 single use packs of biofreeze gel.
energiser 3 led lamp
key chain led on neck rope
compass on neck rope
Gruntline packed for product review reasons
i set of 4 aaa batts
total weight w/out add'd winter bags is 25lbs.ETA after adding a few itmes it is 27lbs with all listed above
this is for 3 days in temps over 45-50f. any lower or more than 3 days weight will be more!
edc- gerber folder
gerber 800 multi tool
4 spare mags 2- loaded and 100 extra rounds
BOK and larger FAK
4 mre entrees
bout it for extras. sides that in conjuction with a line 2 set up.. you should be able to extend the "BO" time 2-3 extra days IMHO.
ETA- weights and add on's
This came up last week in a thread.i dont carrythese anymore due to the need for h20. But i carry them in my day packs and travel kits. the worked well camping but for a BOB id rather not waste the h20.
these are small 2 inchs long by 1/12 wide by 16th deep maybe and weigh bout 1 oz. they work well, when i di use them. YMMV
figured id drop that link here for others. walmart has them for 2 for 1$ in the travel section at times
Posted: 10/7/2006 6:37:37 PM
I SMELL A RAT!
That's not protus, that's the man baby.
They've hacked Protus' computer but they forgot to alter the typing style. Clearly they have clear minds and the the thought process was not transferred into illegible gibberish.
god bless protus wherever he is.
Those bastards! (southpark kids voice)
Posted: 10/7/2006 6:59:01 PM
its , me i just dont drink anymore like i used to. im dried up!! lol
plus i used spell check sorta lol
Posted: 10/7/2006 7:12:02 PM
Well who ever you are G man, good post!
Posted: 10/7/2006 7:47:56 PM
[Last Edit: 10/7/2006 7:49:24 PM by Halffast]
[Raymond's dad] Holy Crap! [/Raymond's Dad]
[Fred Sanford] Elizabeth, I'm coming Elizabeth! [/Fred Sanford]
Posted: 10/7/2006 7:48:51 PM
is their any water included in that weight and if so how much??
Posted: 10/7/2006 8:39:32 PM
2.5 liter platypus bag full.
ive found that on hot day down here im good for 1 liter per 5 miles....long as i am not pushing to hard.
Thats also a reason i carry the abilty to carry 6 more liter if need be. if i come to a H20 source i can fill up and move on.
Thats why i push the drom bag/water bag deal. keep them folded up small outta the way, find a h20 source if its scarce, fill up,,move on. ive got 6 liters of storage for 1/8th of the weight of a 1 qt USgI or nalgene and the space saveing alone is worth it.
Id like to get a 3 liter but im to cheap right now.
the list i have is for a 3 day set up. the med alice doesnt have a whole mess of room to work with. thats why my long term/long trip bag is a internal frame 4500 cube kelty!
Posted: 10/7/2006 10:48:08 PM
I was just wanting to compare our pack weights so i needed to know how much water you had .......... i carry one of the 6l platypus water bags too..
Even if i cut the obvious extra weight that i'm carrying sleeping pad, tent ,extra water which should be around 9-10lbs..... your's is still 5lb's lighter than mine and it "looks" like your carrying more stuff if i loose those items although this set up is for 4days so maybee a 1lb of that is food
If i did the math right all this comes out to be right around 44lbs for winter 4 days.
sleeping bag (25degree synthetic)=3.13 (weighed less than i thought)
fuel =.13 (enough for 4days +)(note thats 8oz of fuel and 5 for the canister )
head lamp= .3
bat light stick =.1
water filter =1.15
smart wool socksX2 = .8
hygene/first aid = 2
tent= 6 (could loose over 4lb's right here by using my tarp)
trash bag= .4
clothes(rain proofj/p UA top bottom)=6
water blader =4.11
naglene x2= 5.4 (probably loose most of this if not all)
sleep pad =1.3 (guess i could live without it but don't want to)
6liter resevor =.3
cotton (fire start) =.2
polar pure= .5
food =3.5 (4days)
gps/fire start/bats =1.3
my camera 1.13 so that puts me at 46....
Posted: 10/8/2006 7:31:59 AM
[Last Edit: 10/8/2006 7:45:49 AM by protus]
what saves weigh onmy end is i have no tent. i use the light weight tarps that i make as a hobby. they are all on avg under 6.5 OZ's. i have two in this kit and they dont weigh over 9 oz's combined. and both are 5x8(7)'s.
Also My clothing is et up as a layerd system. the lighter OD shell, the fleece, the extra UA style shirt,gloves and shemagh(sp). when i hike out i have one a light weight cotton T-shirt with a baggy UA style over that. this helps me stay cool by letting alot of excess sweat dry off while keeping a damp cool layer near my skin. THIS ONLY helps in summer or hot temps. in winter i use the UA style by it self.
ialso dont have a stove or fuel like i normally carry.
Inmy full BOB. i carry 4 triox bars, but most food in it is cold eat food.
i may be off the 25lb mark it was 25lbs 2 day ago before i add'd the lil GRMS radio and pouch. so i may be at 26.
i also dont count the Bk7 as pack weight as it is worn on person. but the pack alone and contents are round 25-26lbs.
Ill edit my list with weights of known objects. and guess the rest. ill also re weigh my pack.
since i did add some extra fluff a day ago. least that will help you and others see where the weigh is.,
see the ETA acman,,its 27 lbs,,so i was off by two i had add'd the frs/grms and a set of aaa's the other day along with the Gruntline to test out.
Posted: 10/8/2006 5:43:15 PM
Bump for newbs or vets to chime in !
Posted: 10/8/2006 5:56:05 PM
Protus, glad to see you finally broke down and shared your knowledge. I will read it all when I get home from work.
Posted: 10/8/2006 6:22:55 PM
Great post Protus. I always find myself nodding my head as I read your posts.
Posted: 10/8/2006 6:44:33 PM
Posted: 10/8/2006 7:21:14 PM
[Last Edit: 10/8/2006 7:22:24 PM by wsix]
Thanks for taking the effort to weigh all that shit Protus.
I don't have a scale in my house at all! LOL
I'd be curious to see what happens to the wieght when you add load bearing equipment.
Are you using a load bearing setup for martial SHTF type stuff or do you just use pockets?
I have a hard time transitioning from a military setup to, err, emergency hiking.
Posted: 10/8/2006 8:31:11 PM
this is my load bearing set/combat load/patrol set up/zombie killing gear.
German LBE setup. ext mod's the e-tool pouch is now a 2nd Canteen..
List of contents-
1- usgi canteen cup
1- esbit stove with 2 triox bars in it
6-G3 /Hk91 mags( 120 rnds) +1 in rifle
1- B.O.K(blow out kit) w/multitool attached
1-usgi compass pouch with combat dressing and 20 ftof 550 cord attached via carbiner to h-harness for a drag line.
Butt pack contents-
1- 2 liter water bladder
1- usgi poncho(this is also strapped outside if need be to make room for extra gear.)
2-Hk91 mags loaded
1-green chem lite
1- german AK cleaning kit with pull through and tools
1- survival straw
2- Porta aqua bottles
2- mre entrees
4- cliff bars
3- mre drink mix's
1-set of mre matches and extra bic
1-mre condiment pack w/extra TP add'd
1- izzy dressing
1- combat dressing
1-20 piece basic FAK
1- 10x25 (ithink) micro binoc's
25ft of 550
1- 45 gallon 3 mil trash bag
1-set of black mexhanix gloves
1- OD bandana
1- usgi bug repllant
2- bug repllant wipes
1-gerber infinty LED
weight 27lbs last i wieghed it +- 4 lbs9havent weighed it since i add'd the extra canteen
On person in pocket
1- pouch containing
bic,matches in zip lock
1- 35mm film can with duct tape and elec tape wrappe donit with PJ balls inside
1- cliff bar
1- gallon zip lock
1- 5x8 tarp (one si make 5 1/2 oz's)
1-pin on compass
1-electrolyte jelly beans
1-25ft of 550
gerber 800 multi tool
compass with led keychain light attached
THAT is my oh shit load out. NOT what i would carry with my BOB.
The alic epackis use din conjunction with this set up to BO to my BOL or BO from it if it is compromised.
My line two for my NON oh sit .. is the samein the pockets , with my sidearm concealed and the Klety 4500 cube ruck as my pack!
My main goal is to have a OH shit load out that doesnt excede 65lbs!.
and to have a ok it sucks we are on foot,,but here we are that doesnt excede the same with extra food/shelter or protection(ammo/wepaons)
Posted: 10/9/2006 2:40:22 PM
Cool deal Protus, For a minute there I thought you didn't have a zombie slayer rig and just worked out of the BOB.
Posted: 10/9/2006 3:18:21 PM
I'm gonna run right out and buy me a BOB right NOW
Seriously, excellent post brother!
Posted: 10/9/2006 5:24:02 PM
thanks man,,justtrying to get a good BOB thread going sinc eour other one gets bumped alot but all the links are dead and pics are gone,, keeps it fresh you know.
i was kinda hopeing others would chime in with pics,,gear list ect for the newbs... maybe one day,,, ...
Posted: 10/9/2006 7:39:00 PM
Yeah, no foolin.
I, uh... "know a guy" that's gotten a new pack and some new gear and updated his BoB.
The bastard should post pics already!!!
Uh... I mean