Choice between good night vision equipment or quality suppressor. Where do you put the money first? - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Choice between good night vision equipment or quality suppressor. Where do you put the money first? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 5/27/2017 3:11:04 PM EDT

I'm currently saving up money for either a suppressor (30cal) or night vision. I don't NEED either one, but know each would be handy in their own rights and intend to have both eventually. Obviously there is a huge price differential, so what would you go after first and why?

Posted: 5/27/2017 3:14:31 PM EDT

[#1]

Suppressor. They work in daylight too.

Posted: 5/27/2017 3:17:18 PM EDT

[#2]

While your waiting for what will seem like the rest of your life for the can save for the magic eye. Then get both.

Posted: 5/27/2017 3:41:18 PM EDT

[#3]

Seeing in the dark IS a superpower.

Posted: 5/27/2017 4:07:47 PM EDT

[#4]

Night vision is a bigger advantage than a suppressor . In a pinch you can make a suppressor . You can not easily make night vision

Posted: 5/27/2017 4:39:22 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
Night vision is a bigger advantage than a suppressor . In a pinch you can make a suppressor . You can not easily make night vision

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I agree.

Posted: 5/27/2017 5:05:29 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
Seeing in the dark IS a superpower.

View Quote

This.

Posted: 5/27/2017 5:54:31 PM EDT

[#7]

You are looking at a year long wait, or longer at this point, for a suppressor. I bought a Silencerco Omega 30 last July, right before the 41F changes. I was told by the dealer last week that I should be able to get it out of NFA jail soon, as they've already received other approved F4's from suppressors purchased on the same date as mine.

If I was dead set on getting both, I'd go suppressor first, then save up for good night vision. If you buy the night vision now and save up to buy the suppressor later, you are going to have a long NFA wait in addition to how long you spent saving up. Night vision is a take it home the day you bought it kind of thing.

Posted: 5/27/2017 11:55:04 PM EDT

[#8]

Night vision

Posted: 5/28/2017 12:39:23 AM EDT

[#9]

Night vision.

I sold my night vision a few years ago to get some suppressors. I didn't really ever use the NV soo....

To me now. I wish I never sold the NV. Outside of .22 and 9mm, I fully believe that a suppressor, when not using sub sonic ammo is a waste of money. It just doesn't get quiet enough to make that much of a difference.

.

Posted: 5/28/2017 2:24:35 AM EDT

[#10]

If you have good Night Vision, and you shoot your target, ... "if there is a tree that falls in the forest and there is nobody around to hear it, does it make sound?"

Rancher

Posted: 5/28/2017 4:51:36 AM EDT

[#11]

I think IR/thermal would work a lot better for your needs than NV. Thermal comes down in price, as it's more like a digital camera than it is something of its own, where the methods and expense to make magnifier tubes for NV hasn't changed really.

As far as detection, NV is nothing compared to thermal.

So there's that.

As for a suppressor... helps if shooting inside a structure or car I guess. I've only shot with a suppressor once in my life, so don't want to speak too much to it.

The NVG's/NOD's versus thermal I can speak to. Used a lot of both as a scout in the army, and now use them both (mostly thermal) at my current work.

ETA: I have a NV weapons scope. Never hardly use it, which I think will be the case with NV even compared to thermal. Thermal works day or night. But a suppressor will give you the 'buyer satisfaction' of actually getting to use it a bit. I doubt NV will do that for you at all.

Posted: 5/28/2017 5:20:16 AM EDT

[#12]

I have two suppressors. The one I use the most is for 22lr. If there is not any place near you where you can shoot without hearing protection. I would go for the night vision first.

Whatever you do. Do not get a 22lr suppressor and load up your pistols or rifles with CCI Quiet or aguila colibri or Super colibri and shoot a targets with a multi phone book backstop in your home. I think that would be illegal almost anywhere.

Posted: 5/28/2017 8:08:33 AM EDT

[#13]

NV is good, so long as you buy a good set. The Gen1 stuff is hardly worth more than a night-adjusted human eye, if you face varied lighting conditions.
Gen 3 is pretty impressive, but costly.

Suppressors are nice, too. It's not the movies, so it's still loud, but for less-obtrusive practice or hunting, they are handy.
Also, no one likes hearing loss!

Posted: 5/28/2017 8:25:19 AM EDT

[#14]

Night vision

Posted: 5/28/2017 8:35:23 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Night vision.

I sold my night vision a few years ago to get some suppressors. I didn't really ever use the NV soo....

To me now. I wish I never sold the NV. Outside of .22 and 9mm, I fully believe that a suppressor, when not using sub sonic ammo is a waste of money. It just doesn't get quiet enough to make that much of a difference.

.

View Quote

The cans are fun, and a .22 cal like a Dead Air Mask HD is pretty quiet with subsonic rounds, and may be helpful to harvesting small game somewhat covertly. Although you could argue a good pellet gun can take down squirrels and small rabbits also.

Being able to bug out at night, fight at night, check the neighborhood quietly at night, etc. is definitely a bigger plus.

That being said, NV is pretty much always available, consider the time involved with the suppressors. ATF might say 8 months still on their call in and check on your submission line, but the reality is closer to a year. I'm sure that will get a little bit better once the pre-41f rush gets approved, but still, probably be a bit.

Fun factor? Shooting a target at 500 yards with a good bit less sound from a .308 is pretty fun, although I wouldn't call it a major tactical advantage- you can still hear it enough to zero in on it. Shooting steels at 200 yards in pitch dark with a PVS14 and IR laser is pretty fun too, and a little more realistic.

OPSEC issues- nothing involved with purchasing NV as far as forms, special licensing, etc. Suppressors are an NFA item so their will be hoops to jump through, post 41F their are more hoops. I doubt I will be purchasing anything post 41F because of the changes.

Besides, everyone knows nothing bad happens at night, bad guys all go to sleep about 5pm

JK

So typical arfcom answer- get both, but probably start with the NV for more practicality.

Posted: 5/28/2017 8:39:27 AM EDT

[#16]

This is why I love this forum, you've all given me some things to think about.
Thanks!

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:22:06 AM EDT

[#17]

Night vision,

You can't shoot what you can't see.

Posted: 5/28/2017 1:59:35 PM EDT

[#18]

In my case I spent money on the night vision first, then the suppressor.

Posted: 5/28/2017 6:07:03 PM EDT

[#19]

My suggestion would be buy the suppressor first. The year long wait will give you time to save for NV or thermal (whichever you decide to go with) and then you will be able to pick both up at the same time

Posted: 5/28/2017 6:14:43 PM EDT

[#20]

Both?

They go hand in hand IMO.

Sneaking up on pigs to within 30 yards in pitch black dark is a life changing event. Shooting them at 30 yards and not waking the wife up at 1am because of the suppressor is another life changing event.

Posted: 5/28/2017 8:21:57 PM EDT

[#21]

Night vision and it's not even close. Iraq and Afghanistan combat vet. Night vision is a whole different world as far as combat capability. Pair it with an IR laser and its like cheating.

I own suppressors in .22,9mm,5.56mm,.30,and .338. The only one that is really quiet is the .22. The rest make the noise level at you better,reduce recoil,and lessen your signature. They are NOT quiet.

Posted: 5/28/2017 8:40:24 PM EDT

[#22]

I would get the NV. Loud or not, if you can't see it you can't shoot it.

Posted: 5/28/2017 9:14:29 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
Seeing in the dark IS a superpower.

View Quote

I own the night and I get first shot, however loud

Posted: 5/28/2017 11:47:02 PM EDT

[#24]

Another vote for night vision and IR laser.

If you have even a modicum of mechanical aptitude, you can Form 1 some quality cans. I've got 3 titanium cans all built for under $275 each including mount (not including Uncle Sugar's tax) and, by all accounts from others that have built similar designs, they're as quiet as commercial cans. With the steel freeze plugs it does weigh as much as a commercial steel can though.

Posted: 5/29/2017 9:49:01 AM EDT

[#25]

NV.

They advantages have already been listed by everyone.

I found these in Amazon Warehouse for about 70% off. They work pretty good. They will suffice until I save to get a gen 3.

Posted: 5/29/2017 11:54:02 AM EDT

[#26]

Night vision.

The goblins come out at night.

Posted: 5/29/2017 5:40:41 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
Another vote for night vision and IR laser.

View Quote

My work rifle for my part-time job is a two stamp gun, an SBR M4 with a Silencerco can, Aimpoint and ATPIAL-C. Essentially set up the way my rifle was overseas. Had it at the range last week for my full-time job weapon qualifying since the guys had asked me to bring it.

One of the other instructors looked at it and almost screamed at me « what's WRONG with you!!!??». Keep in mind this was a four year project that finally got completed just a few months ago. This guys also a SWAT guy so it's not like he is unfamiliar with the gear or the concept behind it's use. But somehow in his mind this stuff being used b y general patrol officers, let alone the general public, is a bizarre concept. It's somewhat distressing to see such a closed mind from someone who should know better

One of these days I'll be out of this state and in a state where people don't look at these sorts of equipment as being unusual

Posted: 5/29/2017 5:57:28 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
Seeing in the dark IS a superpower.

View Quote

This.

Posted: 5/29/2017 6:24:10 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
You are looking at a year long wait, or longer at this point, for a suppressor. I bought a Silencerco Omega 30 last July, right before the 41F changes. I was told by the dealer last week that I should be able to get it out of NFA jail soon, as they've already received other approved F4's from suppressors purchased on the same date as mine.

If I was dead set on getting both, I'd go suppressor first, then save up for good night vision. If you buy the night vision now and save up to buy the suppressor later, you are going to have a long NFA wait in addition to how long you spent saving up. Night vision is a take it home the day you bought it kind of thing.

View Quote

They are just about through the glut of forms prior to the rule change, and sales fell through the floor after. I'm guessing closer to six to eight months.

Posted: 5/29/2017 6:48:50 PM EDT

[#30]

I want both. NV and IR lasers are going to be way more than a 556 can. Im buying the can first and during my wait am going to try and live strictly off free water from restaurants and noodles to try and afford what I want for NV and an ATPIAL

Posted: 5/29/2017 6:59:29 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
Seeing in the dark IS a superpower.

View Quote

This x 87

There is a reason Night Stalkers own the night.

Posted: 5/30/2017 6:12:35 AM EDT

[#32]

There is a huge difference in pricing that hasn't been mentioned so far. To get night vision that is worth having, you are talking a LOT more than a good .30cal suppressor.

Cheap night vision is almost worthless, but good night vision is a bigger force multiplier than a suppressor would be. What is in your budget?

Posted: 5/30/2017 9:06:23 AM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
There is a huge difference in pricing that hasn't been mentioned so far. To get night vision that is worth having, you are talking a LOT more than a good .30cal suppressor.

Cheap night vision is almost worthless, but good night vision is a bigger force multiplier than a suppressor would be. What is in your budget?

View Quote

I'm figuring 3-4k for NV and around 1k for suppressor.
Sounds like a plan to get the ball rolling on the latter while saving for the former.
I'm in no hurry, so have the luxury of shopping around and waiting on a good deal.

Posted: 5/30/2017 10:31:29 AM EDT

[#34]

Thermal.

I just bought a gen 1+ ATN NV scope, and mounted a 600 lumen IR flashlight to it. Its good to about 100 yards on a pitch black night. Need to save back up for the IR laser.

Since everything is green, harder to find your target. Thermal is a giant beacon coming from a warm blooded critter.

I got the scope cheap though, so that I why I actually have it.

Posted: 5/30/2017 6:48:05 PM EDT

[#35]

PVS-14 still the recommended?

Posted: 5/30/2017 7:29:06 PM EDT

[#36]

Concur.

Posted: 5/30/2017 7:52:59 PM EDT

[#37]

NV, but it will cost quite a bit more than most suppressors. Don't even consider Gen 1 or 2 NV, IMO. I have both of those and when I look through a friend's Gen 3, it's not even close. If I had known, I wouldn't have bought the Gen 2...go straight to Gen 3.

Posted: 5/30/2017 9:36:50 PM EDT

[#38]

Get the best head mountable night vision that you can afford and a IR laser for what ever you shoot with wether it be a pistol or a rifle. Seeing in the dark and being able to move with minimal signature is an absolute advantage, being able to shoot in the dark accurately is an advantage that can't be beat against 99% of others that can't.

Posted: 5/30/2017 9:39:42 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
PVS-14 still the recommended?

View Quote

A monocular is probably the most versatile for handheld and mounted use. I have used a PVS-18 and it was awesome! But not $6k awesome to me to buy one. PVS-14 will get the job done for most.

Posted: 5/30/2017 10:35:35 PM EDT

[#40]

Hands down NV. I have a Mini-14 I picked up years ago for a little over $2K. Worth every penny and then some.
Saving money for some quality thermals now.

Posted: 5/30/2017 11:03:12 PM EDT

[#41]

PVS-14 and DBAL or other Class 1 IR pointer/illuminator.

Posted: 5/31/2017 3:14:37 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
NV.

They advantages have already been listed by everyone.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/122302/IMG-1153-210201.jpg
I found these in Amazon Warehouse for about 70% off. They work pretty good. They will suffice until I save to get a gen 3.

View Quote

@fighter443 what are those?

Posted: 5/31/2017 5:51:43 PM EDT

[#43]

Get that can! I would suggest a high quality hybrid. Buy once, cry once. And the hybrid will give you a few different caliber configurations. Best bang for your buck!

Posted: 5/31/2017 7:40:43 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
PVS-14 still the recommended?

View Quote

Most versatile setup. $3K should get you a new PVS14 Pinnacle with 10 year warranty.

As far as IR lasers go, an OTAL-C is a good choice at just $350. and takes the same AA battery as the 14 does.

Posted: 5/31/2017 9:48:12 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:

@fighter443 what are those?

View Quote

Luna Optics.

Posted: 6/1/2017 9:09:43 AM EDT

[#46]

Without a doubt NV/thermal before suppressors. I have a "big four" list that I feel is very important for any prepper. I listed them in my priority as I feel they are all useful. Of my list, the NV/thermal is a game changer. Bad things happen in the dark. As someone already pointed out...if things get that bad, there are improvised suppressor alternatives...same cannot be said for NV/thermal.

1) NV/thermal
2) suppressors
3) 50BMG
4) body armor

Posted: 6/2/2017 11:39:05 AM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:

I'm figuring 3-4k for NV and around 1k for suppressor.
Sounds like a plan to get the ball rolling on the latter while saving for the former.
I'm in no hurry, so have the luxury of shopping around and waiting on a good deal.

View Quote

3-4k for the gen 3 monocular just gets you started.

Don't forget to budget for the helmet, ballistic or bump? At absolute minimum, you could get a crye nightcap, but I would say get the bump helmet. I have a night cap and like it, but would not want it to be my only option
You'll also need mount for the helmet, and don't forget the shroud too if youre going the nightcap route.
Counterweight? Maybe. Personal preference.

IR laser should be your next purchase after that. MAWL for 2500 or ATPIAL for 1300? You may need a new mount for your flashlight after you put the IR laser on the AR. You can go much cheaper with a laser only option but depending on how dark it is where you use it you may need a separate illuminator.

IR strobe? IR flashlight? I like my torch from TNVC a lot. Lower powered IR light for helmet mounting?

You have no idea the money pit youre looking at OP, it's a hugely fun money pit, and I don't regret any of the stuff I got, but I went THOUSANDS over my initial budget simply because I didn't know what I didn't know.

Posted: 6/2/2017 11:56:15 AM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:

3-4k for the gen 3 monocular just gets you started.

Don't forget to budget for the helmet, ballistic or bump? At absolute minimum, you could get a crye nightcap, but I would say get the bump helmet. I have a night cap and like it, but would not want it to be my only option
You'll also need mount for the helmet, and don't forget the shroud too if youre going the nightcap route.
Counterweight? Maybe. Personal preference.

IR laser should be your next purchase after that. MAWL for 2500 or ATPIAL for 1300? You may need a new mount for your flashlight after you put the IR laser on the AR. You can go much cheaper with a laser only option but depending on how dark it is where you use it you may need a separate illuminator.

IR strobe? IR flashlight? I like my torch from TNVC a lot. Lower powered IR light for helmet mounting?

You have no idea the money pit youre looking at OP, it's a hugely fun money pit, and I don't regret any of the stuff I got, but I went THOUSANDS over my initial budget simply because I didn't know what I didn't know.

View Quote

That's why I'm here asking for input.
Thanks for your thoughts.

Posted: 6/2/2017 1:01:24 PM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
Without a doubt NV/thermal before suppressors. I have a "big four" list that I feel is very important for any prepper. I listed them in my priority as I feel they are all useful. Of my list, the NV/thermal is a game changer. Bad things happen in the dark. As someone already pointed out...if things get that bad, there are improvised suppressor alternatives...same cannot be said for NV/thermal.

1) NV/thermal
2) suppressors
3) 50BMG
4) body armor

View Quote

Interesting, why 50 before body armor?