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Posted: 5/27/2017 2:45:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Interesting question. My view is only having 2 shots before needing to reload is a serious liability in a defense situation, so I'd go with something like a Marlin model 60 that holds 18 rounds or a 10/22 with a 25 round magazine. With high velocity rounds and plenty in the magazine, I think it'll get most jobs done. Obviously a 12 gauge can do some things a 22 can't, and if you could do a pump shotgun with 7 rounds or something like that, I might go that way instead.
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Posted: 5/27/2017 2:56:40 PM EDT
[#2]
The shotgun is going to give you much more versatility IRT the ammo that you can shoot, but in a true defense situation only having one or two shots before you reload would be a major disadvantage. Then again, the one or two shots have a lot more power than that .22
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Posted: 5/27/2017 2:58:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Shotgun without question. Everyone knows the survivability rate.
And lots of ammo choices... As well as intimidating as all heck. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 3:51:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting question. My view is only having 2 shots before needing to reload is a serious liability in a defense situation, so I'd go with something like a Marlin model 60 that holds 18 rounds or a 10/22 with a 25 round magazine. With high velocity rounds and plenty in the magazine, I think it'll get most jobs done. Obviously a 12 gauge can do some things a 22 can't, and if you could do a pump shotgun with 7 rounds or something like that, I might go that way instead. For home defense, 12 buck buckshot, even if just two shots, would probably be what I grab first although with multiple attackers semi auto and more capacity is tempting. 22LR carbines are also lighter, usually shorter barrels and more handy. I dont know, I was just checking the used guns floating around for that money and just cant say for sure which one I would get if I only had 150 bucks to spend. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 4:50:47 PM EDT
[#5]
http://www.gunadapters.com/
The shotgun will give you more options because you can add the ability to fire multiple types of ammo in it using Short Lane adapters. One can carry a single shot or double barrel shotgun and adapters for 45acp, and 22 and be able to hunt small and medium game or defend with buckshot etc. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 6:42:22 PM EDT
[#6]
For $100-$150 you'd be getting a single shot shotgun or .22.
But, prices seem high where I'm at. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 8:10:27 PM EDT
[#7]
a good friend is a APG pistol smith, and does a lot of work for SASS Cowboy shooters.... to get a double that works is not a $150 option... I'd go with the 10/22 that is quick handling and quick shooting... aim small hit small, as in the head YMMV
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Posted: 5/27/2017 10:32:10 PM EDT
[#8]
I am wickedly accurate with my 10/22's. I am extremely comfortable with them also. There is no question in my mind.
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Posted: 5/28/2017 4:30:26 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For $100-$150 you'd be getting a single shot shotgun or .22. But, prices seem high where I'm at. |
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Posted: 5/28/2017 5:26:38 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
I was looking at what can be had for say 100, 150 bucks tops. call it last resort, burried somwhere or just left someplace as backup of the backup of the backup. For that money its either a double barrel 12ga or some semi auto 22LR, nothing fancy maybe well used Marlin, some german gun or a tube fed winchestre semi auto. So, which would you go for as defense/general purpose gun, double barrel or 22LR? For defense - shotgun For cheap plinking and survival - 22 |
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Posted: 5/28/2017 6:48:34 AM EDT
[#11]
Going to hard to shoot flushing birds with a .22.
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Posted: 5/28/2017 10:32:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Personally I'd go with the 22LR. If it's genuinely a last resort, that strongly implies supplies are limited as well, and it's
much easier carting 22LR ammo than 12GA. Less weight, less bulky, more shots in total and certainly if you're limited to a side by side, more shots at the moment. Yes, less than ideal for SD but you'd still be a very credible threat (moreso under the circumstances this would be needed). I think the 22 would also have the advantage if there's multiple threats, though that situation would suck a lot to deal with. If it were me, I'd be packing the most reliable ammo I could at both extremes of the power curve (so something like CCI Quiet-22 and Velocitor.) |
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Posted: 5/28/2017 11:18:27 PM EDT
[#13]
22LR.
even thou is a .22 ten send in your direction will hurt not as much as 2 12 ga loads but 22LR has killed more thing than any other cal. |
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Posted: 5/28/2017 11:54:46 PM EDT
[#14]
.22s are deadly effective in the right hands, and rather easy to suppress if one knows what they are doing. I would take a .22 every single time.
For general purpose use, it would be extremely hard to beat a scoped 22 rifle. 
In reference to the comment about hunting birds with a rifle, if you are both a skilled hunter and a good shooter, it is not too tough. I killed these 4 grouse using my Colt AR, and never touched a breast. 
.22 handguns are deadly as well: 
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Posted: 5/28/2017 11:57:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Scoped 10/22.
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Posted: 5/29/2017 12:08:14 AM EDT
[#16]
I know you guys will scoff at me, but I shoot a 6x8" target off hand at 100 yards with my scoped and open sighted 10/22 several times a week. I have a very high hit rate.
I shoot 2", 3", and 5" rounds at 50 yards at the same time. The 2" gives me a hard time but I'm better than 50/50. If you give me a reason to shoot you and all I have is one of my 10/22's,  and you are inside of 100 yards you are in a lot of danger.
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Posted: 5/29/2017 12:30:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am wickedly accurate with my 10/22's. I am extremely comfortable with them also. There is no question in my mind. A shotgun is fine for CQB but the ammo is heavy. In a survival situation you can shoot plenty of birds with a 22 if you know what your doing. |
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Posted: 5/29/2017 5:22:27 AM EDT
[#18]
The semi auto shotguns are something that also needs to be thrown in the debate. At least here, the market is flooded with 150-200 semi auto shotguns, FN, Benelli, Beretta. Hunting guns, but with a short barrel if you get one reliable with buckshot or slugs youre talking about a serious home defense weapon.
4+1 or 5+1 in a 12ga semi auto you know to be reliable with buckshot or a 22LR, which one would you choose? I know what Im picking for defense. Then again for hunting/plinking and pest, the 22LR wins. The thing is I view firearms as defensive weapons in 90% of the cases in which you need them to fill a true survival role. Home invasion, post disaster security. Maybe a couple 22LR and then 3 or 4 semi auto 12ga as backup defensive guns. Anyway, interesting discussion. |
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Posted: 5/29/2017 9:12:27 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The semi auto shotguns are something that also needs to be thrown in the debate. At least here, the market is flooded with 150-200 semi auto shotguns, FN, Benelli, Beretta. Hunting guns, but with a short barrel if you get one reliable with buckshot or slugs youre talking about a serious home defense weapon. 4+1 or 5+1 in a 12ga semi auto you know to be reliable with buckshot or a 22LR, which one would you choose? I know what Im picking for defense. Then again for hunting/plinking and pest, the 22LR wins. The thing is I view firearms as defensive weapons in 90% of the cases in which you need them to fill a true survival role. Home invasion, post disaster security. Maybe a couple 22LR and then 3 or 4 semi auto 12ga as backup defensive guns. Anyway, interesting discussion. |
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Posted: 5/29/2017 9:29:25 AM EDT
[#20]
ferfal... you need to start importing the used Benellis and Berettas into the US... I just paid $425 for an M2 barrel....
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Posted: 5/29/2017 11:09:11 AM EDT
[#21]
Its not the M2s that are cheap, its the hunting semi auto shotguns, Franchi, some of the older Berettas, Benellis and Browining. Saw a 1911 Colt Gold Cup 80s goes for 1000 Euros, Colt revolvers and smiths are pretty afordable too. Its just people arent shooting that much any more and they just get rid of them. Especially a lot of people that used to hunt and are giving up the sport so they just sell thier guns.
Exporting guns from EU to US is probably a big PITA. |
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Posted: 5/29/2017 12:22:44 PM EDT
[#22]
I used to always think shotgun. Especially with the adapters someone already mentioned. Then doing some research on the adapters I read and saw they were not overly accurate and depending on the sites on your shotgun that may be the whole issue on accuracy.
Right now I would say 22lr and practice practice practice. Can carry a fair bit of ammo and it is what it is. I tend to buy mini mags from cci, can't recall a single dud I had from one of those but bulk packs from wally world taught me clearance drills awfully well on a 22/45 when I was getting started on shooting. |
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Posted: 5/29/2017 12:23:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Like others posted above, wilderness survival, maybe a TEOTWAWKI type situation I would probably want a 22LR for something semi long term. Especially if moving on foot.
Specifically self defense, I want a shotgun. Ether way I would hope to have my CCW so that could serve the close and personal self defense role, 22LR could serve as a game getter, and possibly surprising fire if necessary, of course this only applies if you have a semi. I actually prefer single shot break action 22LR for the long run. Another option is something like the Rossi youth matched pair. I have the model that combines 22LR and 20GA in a very short, compact package. My wife got me one for Christmas for less than $100 several years ago. 
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Posted: 5/29/2017 1:02:34 PM EDT
[#24]
For home defense the shotgun..
For survival setting the 22LR with CCI Velocitors. I do think the shotgun would be better at both tasks but you can pack a lot more 22LR than shotgun shells. |
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Posted: 5/29/2017 1:18:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like others posted above, wilderness survival, maybe a TEOTWAWKI type situation I would probably want a 22LR for something semi long term. Especially if moving on foot. Specifically self defense, I want a shotgun. Ether way I would hope to have my CCW so that could serve the close and personal self defense role, 22LR could serve as a game getter, and possibly surprising fire if necessary, of course this only applies if you have a semi. I actually prefer single shot break action 22LR for the long run. Another option is something like the Rossi youth matched pair. I have the model that combines 22LR and 20GA in a very short, compact package. My wife got me one for Christmas for less than $100 several years ago. http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n52/thederrick106/Guns/8ROSSI1.jpg http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n52/thederrick106/Guns/8ROSSI2.jpg |
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Posted: 5/29/2017 7:22:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The semi auto shotguns are something that also needs to be thrown in the debate. At least here, the market is flooded with 150-200 semi auto shotguns, FN, Benelli, Beretta. Hunting guns, but with a short barrel if you get one reliable with buckshot or slugs youre talking about a serious home defense weapon. 4+1 or 5+1 in a 12ga semi auto you know to be reliable with buckshot or a 22LR, which one would you choose? I know what Im picking for defense. Then again for hunting/plinking and pest, the 22LR wins. The thing is I view firearms as defensive weapons in 90% of the cases in which you need them to fill a true survival role. Home invasion, post disaster security. Maybe a couple 22LR and then 3 or 4 semi auto 12ga as backup defensive guns. Anyway, interesting discussion. |
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Posted: 5/30/2017 12:45:44 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shot one of these off a bench and it was very inaccurate. How does yours shoot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Like others posted above, wilderness survival, maybe a TEOTWAWKI type situation I would probably want a 22LR for something semi long term. Especially if moving on foot. Specifically self defense, I want a shotgun. Ether way I would hope to have my CCW so that could serve the close and personal self defense role, 22LR could serve as a game getter, and possibly surprising fire if necessary, of course this only applies if you have a semi. I actually prefer single shot break action 22LR for the long run. Another option is something like the Rossi youth matched pair. I have the model that combines 22LR and 20GA in a very short, compact package. My wife got me one for Christmas for less than $100 several years ago. http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n52/thederrick106/Guns/8ROSSI1.jpg http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n52/thederrick106/Guns/8ROSSI2.jpg 
Well worth the coin IMHO. Very accurate, very well built. Its one of my favorite "firearms," well the combo that is. Very versatile and utilitarian. I think if I had to pick one last ditch "long gun" to take with me, in all honestly it would probably be my Rossi matched pair. A couple boxes of 20GA utility loads, and a couple bulk packs of 22LR. Of course this would compliment a proper CCW. Probably my 1911. Many a plausible scenarios could be handled with this combo. |
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Posted: 5/30/2017 1:38:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Always have the .45 EDC,
So I would go with a .22lr Reasons have been mentioned above. |
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Posted: 5/30/2017 3:48:06 PM EDT
[#29]
There aren't many guns simpler than a double barrel shotgun. Considering the ammo versatility it's an excellent choice in any situation except in a self defense situation dealing with multiple assailants.
It's a good choice for a last ditch gun. |
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Posted: 5/30/2017 6:56:01 PM EDT
[#30]
For me it's shotgun.
I love 22s. But if I'm out for food I have traps. Shotgun fills alot of roles good enough. Also easy to reload for with some knowledge and little tools. A nail and a broomstick. Plus if you come across any shells you can almost always morph them into what you need. You can turn birdshot to buck, buck to slug, slug to birdshot. Powders and primers can be scavenged, the shotshell is very forgiving. With a 22 you get just that and nothing else. |
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Posted: 5/30/2017 11:07:26 PM EDT
[#31]
if it wasn't for your budget i'd say a old (read all metal) ruger mkII or 22/45 with a 5.5" bull barrel. those little pistols are amazingly accurate and can do almost anything a 22 rifle can do yet also be concealable in a pinch. if you zipped 10-11 velocitors into someone's chest I doubt they will be bugging you anytime soon. I could easily make that shot inside 25 yards with that little pistol. (granted mine has some trigger work done and target sights) from a rest I can hit soda cans with 80-90% hit ratio at 75 yards if the wind is calm.
given that budget i'd toss in a old 38 special revolver into the equation. don't know how it is out there but before obama here they could be found for $100-200 everywhere, usually with worn blueing and rough looking but serviceable none the less, same for the tokarev pistols. I would bury a casting mold and one of those old lee hammer load do hikeys where you could hand load with a hammer. you could pull down virtually any handgun cartridge and load it to make it shoot. that and some of those cast bullet low velocity loads can be very good for small-medium game hunting. |
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Posted: 5/31/2017 9:46:15 AM EDT
[#32]
My view is shotguns ammo is heavy and bulky. The only thing it is exceptional at is shooting moving targets flying through the air.
25 shells is the similar bulk / weight as a brick of 22. Probably around 100 rounds of 223. I'd prefer to have more shots vs bear stopping power but Im not hiking through alaska. |
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Posted: 6/2/2017 2:32:05 AM EDT
[#33]
double-barrel loading techniques
 Double Barrel Shotgun: Loading and Unloading a Side-by-Side - Cowboy Action Shooting speed loaders for double/single barrel shotguns  Speedloader swift test with Ricol short barrel shotgun |
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Posted: 6/2/2017 9:40:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Have you looked at a single shots shotgun?
Using a"SHORT LANE" adapters? I have one for my single shot 12ga! Yes it works in a double! It converts it to 22LR!!! But they make all kinds!!! Also you might want to take a look at CLINT SMITH: Unless you are looking to take on "ZOMBIES"! Then you need a zombie gun! But if your just trying to stay low key, and mobile!!! As well as alive! Hey! What do I know!!! LOL This was my 1/2 cents worth!!! Keep the hive posted! Let us know which way you went. PITA45 
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Posted: 6/3/2017 8:48:02 AM EDT
[#35]
My father use to have a saying:
"An unloaded gun scares two people, the guy behind the gun and the guy in front of the gun" I extend that and say: "An under powered gun scares two people, the guy behind the gun and the guy in front of the gun" I think you are two limiting of your options. Find a used, cheap, quality short barrel pump gun for about the same price ore maybe a bit more. Its more flexible, can hunt anything from small to large game with it, its one of the guns of choice for self defense and its more reliable than most 22's except the single shot and lever action. |
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Posted: 6/3/2017 1:12:11 PM EDT
[#36]
If this is a defensive weapon in the city or deep woods maybe the 12.
If its a survival tool 22 is the better option. |
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Posted: 6/9/2017 3:28:41 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
a good friend is a APG pistol smith, and does a lot of work for SASS Cowboy shooters.... to get a double that works is not a $150 option... I'd go with the 10/22 that is quick handling and quick shooting... aim small hit small, as in the head YMMV |
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Posted: 6/9/2017 3:54:44 PM EDT
[#38]
If you can get an old FN Auto-5 in good shape for 200 Euro, grab it. Parts are everywhere, operating system is well known, easy to add an extended magazine, Brits used em in combat, I believe.
If you don't have that much to spend & put away, good condition double bbl by an established local maker, parts will continue to be available, you can still be effective out to 100m w/ good (buffered) buckshot. Double bbl opens up tons of caliber choices w/ cheap & easy to make chamber adapters. |
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Posted: 6/9/2017 3:55:26 PM EDT
[#39]
Too bad you were not looking ten to fifteen years ago as that was the golden days of AKM kits and you could buy an AK kit for $50 and build it with about $30 in compliance parts. Those builds are my backup and last resort but darn they are worth as much or more than an AR-15 now!
In answer to your question, if this is a last resort gun you need to consider both the gun and ammo. I think a modest 22 or better yet a 10/22 with a thousand or more rounds would give you tremendous reserve, consider that this thousand rounds of ammo will take the same space as 50rds of shotgun ammo and would be cheaper then the shotgun ammo too. I think you should have a shotgun too, but for this last resort exercise I would go with the 22 over a shotgun myself. My last resort gun however is AKs, I have a few that were built and put away for bad times should I no longer have anything else. Each has the gun coated in grease, three mags, and 200 rounds of ammo sealed in a PVC pipe with desicant, |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 3:54:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Why not get a .22lr conversion kit for your AR15? You can simply drop in the conversion kit with the same setup.
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Posted: 6/10/2017 6:25:26 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not get a .22lr conversion kit for your AR15? You can simply drop in the conversion kit with the same setup. There are plenty of events that could be National in scale and far less expected then a hurricane hitting the gulf coast. I think it is very wise to have plans that go far beyond the guns in your safe. A spare gun buried, hidden in a barn, built into a structure, packed and stored with a relative or friend, etc may be the only thing you can get when society evaporates. If that happens, having one or several cheap backups is a very good idea. And I don't mean a backup to use 22lr in your primary. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 12:43:51 PM EDT
[#42]
For me it would be a 22. Less noise, easy to carry 500+ rounds, and can kill most animals with good shot placement. I will say squirrel hunting with my single shot was more challenging than I thought. I can get tight enough groups to do head shots at 50 yards but getting them to stay still long enough to aim wasn't easy. Hunting with a shotgun is easier at close range
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Posted: 6/18/2017 8:01:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Dbl barrel. More versatile for hunting and can double as a self-defense firearm.
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