Hi Guys....

Being this is a SHTF forum, I don't think this is too far off the beaten path to be appropriate for SF.....  I don't see any zombie apocalypse coming.  No news of total societal collapse yet.  No major floods, or blizzards or earthquakes here right now.  But I'm pretty sure we are all gonna die some day.

Two weeks ago Dad died.  He was 73.  He had his first heart attack 22 years ago, and had 5 more since.  Ya..  He was a tough old bird. I had many second chances, and had an opportunity to ensure I said everything I wanted to say before he went.  No regrets.   Fortunately, I went on a fishing trip with him two weeks earlier.  The last time I saw him alive was when I hugged him at the end of the fishing trip.  It doesnt get better than that..

But here's the rub....  Dad did a "DIY" home will.  His heart was in the right place.  But in an effort to save $300, he skipped a lawyer and did it on his own.  And any half ways decent lawyer would have poked all kinds of holes in his DIY will, and recommended something in the same format that all the businesses and banks and everyone else uses.  The end result is this:  His DIY will has made and will continue to make my life a living hell for months to come.  Better yet, since he lived in Ontario, and I'm in New York State, I simply CANNOT get some things done without going through MASSIVE pain in the ass administrative  problems.  Example:  I'm going to be required to dig into my own pocket, and post a bond in the amount of DOUBLE his estate to obtain a letter of administration so I can deal with some of his stuff. Again, a lawyer would have known this, and set things up to avoid this bullshit.

Dad did not leave much behind.  A car, boat and RV, a few personal possessions of more sentimental value than actual cash value.  And a few small investments.  In some cases, there is $1,500.00 tied up here.  $2,000 there.   It may actually be more cost effective to simply walk away from some of those, as one account in particular will likely cost MORE than the $1500 to recoup.    Dad saved $300.  But its sort of like tossing fifty dollar bills out the window in order to save a fiver.  

This isn't my first rodeo.  I've done this shit before.  I know no one wants to consider their own mortality. But trust me on this: $300-400 spent on a will and the other assorted paperwork is a far better used of your money than yet another case of ammo.  

You NEED a will.  But dieing is easy, to be honest.  And I guarantee that you will die someday.  Even MORE important are a Power of Attorney of some form.  Imagine you do have a million in assets.   You are incapacitated.  You have the assets to pay for your hospital bills, to pay for the taxes on your home, to keep your bills current.  However, since you are incapacitated, you cannot write the checks  Newsflash:  You aren't actually dead yet, so the Will doesnt matter.  Those assets are more or less locked up, unobtainable, to either you recover or you die.  Who is going to scrape up an additional $100,000 for your medical bills?  Who is going to foot the bill for your home's tax bills?  Or do  they let the county/state "foreclose" on the home for tax default?  Do they just let the bank foreclose because they can't pay their mortgage AND yours too?

You need a will.  And a Power of Attorney that remains or comes into effect upon your incapacitation.  And hopefully some form of living will/medical proxy/whatever the hell your state calls it.  Then do them a favor:  Write down all the bank accounts, investments, IRA's, pensions, insurance policies,and everything else pertinent and leave it with the wills/POA.  And DONT lock them in a safe deposit box.  And if you really want to make it easy for the spouse and your kids, consider jotting down a few wishes.  Its easier when family "knows" what you wanted.  Dad left me a list of names and phone numbers:  Call these friends, these are the people I was close to and would want them to know.  I was close to Dad.  I didn't even know who some of these people were, let alone their numbers...

Sorry for nagging.  But all of this is ten times harder than it needs to be.  Dad "saved" $300.  But its pretty much going to cost thousands as a result.  That's not a big issue.  The real issue is this will all be several orders of magnitude more work and stress than it needs to be...

Just get the correct paperwork for your state.  Please

Fro

Sorry about your pop man, sounds like he had a good life though!

Thanks for the information.....  It is gold for someone like me who can see myself in the exact same situation as your dad, and I am sure he would have spent the lawyer money had someone been kind enough to explain things to him as you have to us....

Timely post for me.

I just bought this- speaking of saving $300:


https://m.costco.com/Quicken-WillMaker-Premium-Home-%2526-Family-2017.product.100301657.html

Anyone know anything about this software?

Will my kids be cursing me some day?

Very sorry for your loss.  Your advice is spot on.  Creating a will, power of attorney, and medical power of attorney is relatively cheap and the best gift you can give to your heirs, especially the executor.  Also consider a do not resuscitate if that is what you want.

If a person has sufficient assets, a living trust is also the way to go.  

Not an attorney but this is my experience.

My Dad passed in 2010 and Mom in 2013 and today I'm still dealing with Mom's estate and hope to have it done in the next couple of weeks.

My advice, utilize the "pay on death" or "transfer on death" option on your financial dealings and vehicle titles... it will simplify matters greatly for your heirs. If you hold stocks, list a beneficiary or multiples.

When I was in the Guard JAG did wills for free. They still do for vets, but I didn't feel like driving an hour to the armory. I updated my will for $75 last month using my local attorney. Cheap preps, people....

I know how you feel.

Father passed in Feb and didnt have a will. He was 51.
Called my sister and said "well i get half"

My grandparents changed their will just because what my sister said.

Make sure what the laws are.

Sorry for your loss and excellent post

Also leaving everything to "your kids" doesn't work well when they are under 18yrs old in all circumstances. A fellow firefighter at my department died and his life insurance and the whole shebang was all to be paid to his kids. He was still married to his wife and they all lived together as a family at his time of death. All the money and benefits got tied up until the kids where 18. This meant his wife who was a stay at home mom lost their home, cars and everything. And had really struggled to provide any sort of life for their kids. The oldest child was 12 when he passed. Had he left it in his wifes name she would have been able to pay off the home, raise the kids in that house and kept them fed for years.

You are correct. I did my will and POA for $100.00 through an attorney. Don't cheap out, and don't put it off.

I'd add that if you have any substantial assets at all (e.g. a house or savings > $100K or so) actually doing
some estate planning with a lawyer is worthwhile. It costs more than a simple will, but it can really make
a difference.

In my case, my parents created a trust back in the '90s along with a set of power of attorney documents,
and when they died, an estate that was approaching $1M was able to be split and transferred with no interaction
with the court system at all, and for 99% of what was needed, all I had to do was provide a copy of the POA and the
death certificates. Only a couple small things slipped through the cracks, and like the OP mentioned, I found (sadly) the
optimal solution was to just walk away from the money as the costs and time involved exceeded its value.

While there was some money spent on lawyers when they set this up, the savings in legal fees after their death far
offset the cost. Trusts aren't just for the hyper-wealthy.

Sorry about your Dad and your troubles.  I'm emailing my wife right now to set up an appointment with the lawyer when I get home from this stint.
Thanks

Sorry for you loss. Great post and i agree entirely. My dad passed suddenly in an accident last summer at age 76, no medical issues, just sudden.

He did not have a will of any sort, but he had talked about getting around to it, he never did. I am the administrator of the estate, I ended up fronting quite a bit of final preparation expenses and setup like bond etc. It was about 60 days if I remember correctly before I was able to get reimbursed for those expenses. I am thankful that I had the ability to do what needed to be done without worrying about the money, I knew it could come eventually. Because he had no will, I am unable to fully execute what I think his intentions were, and that is unfortunate. There is enough "estate" that it can make a difference in some grandkids lives.

My wife and I need to get off our butts and get ours together. Sooner rather than later.

About 8-10 years before they passed away, Mom and Dad made a living trust. That made things much, MUCH easier!
Basically, a trust is a way to own stuff, much like a corporation is. And they controlled the trust. All their assets-- house, income, guns, furniture, etc-- went into and under control of the trust. Even their checks were labeled "The Joe and Jane Symptoms Trust."
They spent about $800 to have an attorney write it up. The cost even covered the price of one visit from the attorney after they died! (We were amazed to learn that, given that their combined assets were less than two million dollars, there was NO tax! Nada! And the .gov was not even involved in any way!)
Given that Dad invested his money in different things, it was inevitable that some fairly minor things were missed (small investments whose company names had changed, etc), but they were easily handled.
IF it is a simple estate, you "pre-load" the cost of dying. In other words, that $800 was about what it would have cost if they hadn't had a will... BUT (as OP is learning), getting the work done is a lot harder!
OP, I hope the job gets easier for you.

I should have read the whole thread. Seek2's experience EXACTLY mirrored mine.

BTW: The way a living trust is set up, Mom and Dad were "Primary Trustees," i.e. they controlled the trust. When they died, my two sisters and I became "Surviving Trustees," tasked with distributing the assets.
And, once again, the government didn't even notice!

We DID get ten or fifteen copies of the death certificates. These were needed to prove to various entities that they had died (Social Security, banks, insurance companies, DMV, and other legal entities where they had their money involved). OP would be well advised to do the same.

Also dealt with Living trust after father and mothers death.

Imediate distrubition of assets, without probate interference, or permission.

Fathers interest was privacy from having all of family assets listed in the probate documents that are public record, for anyone to browse at the courthouse.

This is why having a large term life insurance policy is so important.

They can tear your estate to pieces taking care of debts, but life insurance slips by and can support your family.

This is too often overlooked.

Really, everyone should have a combination of term AND whole life.

Sorry for your loss, OP.

Here are few things I did that help me organize my parents financial affairs:
- Get one of this organizers,it will help them
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002LCUZK?tag=vglnk-c102-20
-Review the beneficiaries of every account to make sure is updated(remember that beneficiary designation trumps the will).
-If they have a safety deposit box, have them add your name
- If they have a safe, its good to know the combination
-if they have online bank accounts, its good to share with you where they keep their little black book that they keep the passwords.

I am so sorry for your loss.

Your post is spot on. Everyone should have a will and life insurance.

Through my own experience this would have saved many people a lot of heartache and stress.

You are absolutely correct on the importance of getting these things in order, so that it is perfectly clear on your wishes when you are gone.  It eliminates any doubt and is much easier on your survivors.  I have most of this covered, but still have some work to do on the getting all the accounts/passwords put together.

On a side note, be sure to be clear about your wishes for family members that you don't want to leave anything to.  My coworker told me the the other day that the best way to leave someone out of your will is to put them in it.  I looked at him like .  His MIL is the product of a cheating husband that already had a family of his own which caused him to have nothing to do with her and was a dead beat.  When he died she was listed in his will for a whole $2.  It was an asshole thing to do, but rather than not list her and leave it open to her suing for her share as a rightful heir, it was clear she was only entitled to the $2.  Pretty shitty, but I thought it was clever.

Mine is currently set up to leave everything to the wife when I go.  If we both go together, then everything gets split 50/50 between our boys with certain items spelled out to each kid.  If all 4 of us go together, I really don't care where every thing goes.

I used to think it was more for younger people with direct deposit here and there, many people set up 2 or more bank accounts and use one as a savings account.  Not always with the same bank.

But older folks often have life insurance or other stuff.  Bonds can be something else to run into as well.

Having grandpa die a couple decades before grandma still caused some issues.  Some stuff was dealt with when grandpa died but from the limited paperwork we found we could not tell and tracking stuff down with companies going out of business or being bought out by another company can be a pain.

Everyone should have a will and everyone should have a basic list, maybe in the gun safe or encrypted but with someone who knows how to access it, of websites and bank accounts and all stuff.

Heck, that old farm truck with a nice hiding spot for your farm gun might get sold with the gun still in it if family does not know where you keep it.

Sorry for your loss but thanks for the thread.

I agree people should talk to an actual lawyer, and having a list of everything would be a good start.  And ask about updates and keep up with it as you age.

People trying to be their own lawyers, their own doctors, their own architects. Its amazing but some folks end up believing that nonsense that pops up in Arfcom pretty often about people that go to university being all liberal morons. Well, that moron spent years studying something and you just can’t all of a sudden improvise what you didn’t spend years of your life learning.
See a lawyer if you need legal advice, get an architect and professional contractor to design and build your house, if you’re not a teacher yourself then get a teacher to teach your kids and for God’s sake get medical attention when you need it from actual doctors.
It seems like wasted money, but as you say it saves thousands, hundreds of thousands or even your life.

A great reminder. Thank you for the post and I'm sorry for your loss.  I'm glad you were able to spend some quality time with him before he went.

Another thing I will add.  Wills/Estate planning isn't for people who are on their deathbed or nearing retirement.  I'm 31 and I've got my entire estate set up.  To me the most awful thing that I can imagine, is that if my wife and I were to both pass away unexpectedly, some JUDGE that didn't know us, doesn't know our kids, doesn't know our families, GETS TO DECIDE WHAT HAPPENS TO OUR KIDS and the money that we would leave them. We have amazing relationships with my parents and her parents, and all of the siblings.  It's still terrifying to me.  We want a specific couple (my older brother and his amazingly sweet wife) to raise our kids if something were to happen to us.  

Our will says who will have guardianship over our children, and also stipulates what happens with our life insurance money.  Allowing all of this to go to probate (court) will be expensive and unnecessary.  Select who you would want to raise your kids.  Talk to them about them raising your kids to make sure they are willing to do it.

Get a will and all of your estate docs setup.  Get the power of attorney, Medical directive and all that stuff all at once. My wife now knows my wishes about prolonging my life if I'm ever a vegetable. (Pull that damn plug, take my life insurance money, and go PARTAY) (Not really, pay off the mortgage and put our kids in good colleges.....)  

I think I spent $800 for everything.  I can't explain the weight off my shoulders once we got it all finalized.