My wife is onboard with our family going towards more of a homestead lifestyle.  You know, you're generally prepping to be fully self sufficient because we do own enough land to support a crop and livestock rotation.  We also still have the basic infrastructure of a wood stove for heat, a manually operated well for water, and a basic 5kw wind/solar system for basic electronics.

The problem is, many of our neighbors live on 5 acre lots around us for miles, and don't do anything with their land apart from turning it into very large yards, and have nothing to offer us or the community.

My wife thinks we should share what we have if SHTF; I'm more along the lines of lying and hiding much of what we have.  What do you plan to do with your neighbors, and what's the best source that speaks on the subject of how to handle worthless neighbors?

Plenty of ammo and a good long range rifle (I'd go at least .308) to keep them at bay.
If they see what you have, and won't share (even if they're useless idiots), they will get jealous and try to pillage and loot.

you could let her put together "share baskets"
or convince her you're prepping for HER, YOUR KIDS and You...PERIOD, not the neighbors, not your MeeMaw, Not her
cousin Clarice and her yappy little dog...or, forget it..you'll never change her, she's a woman,,,
we just dropped a 59 Tamahawks on Syria cause Ivanka saw a picture of dead kids

lots of luck

Let them starve unless they will be able to offer something special (medical, electrical, etc.) When faced with both of your families starving slowly, or one family thriving (relatively) and one having to move on to green pastures, take the latter.

Don't assume they're worthless. Or stupid.

I have rice, beans, and seeds for the neighbors.
I will have lots of friends.
I have 6 neighbors in 16 sq miles.

Plan to eat them.....rejoice when you don't 
.

We live in a neighborhood now. Our long-term food storage is in boxes in the house under beds and in closets...

We make friends with our neighbors. They are good/trustworthy folks, and we may need them for watch rotation if the S ever htf.

We have stuff to share, and a red-line years supply for our own. The honest truth in any long-term shtf scenario bartering, and having a circle of trusted realationships can come in handy.

Being someone who can help others survive can come in handy.

And, being LDS in a largely non-LDS community, most of my friends are not-LDS. We also have a good number of college-age LDS kids in our Ward. We will probably have to help them. When we purchase preps, I keep that in mind...

All that is different than our preps when we lived in rural Colorado.

We lived on farmable land, kept chickens, had water-rights to our field, and we were surrounded by folks who farmed and kept livestock. We were also in a close-knit community that included many self-sufficient LDS families.

Our preps there, and our midset in Colorado was much different than it is here.

A neighbor farmer would --for free-- till our field, and plant our field, and bale the alfalfa in our field each year. He kept a certain number of bales, and cut us a significant check. That included a discount for him on the bales. We were both happy with the arrangement.  That guy was not LDS, but we trusted him a great deal. That farmer would have never let anyone touch my wife or kids. He was a good man, and if any of my kids ran to his house, he would not hesitate to protect my kids or my wife. That is how folks were out there. The mindset in Colorado for me and my family was different than it is here.

We are the significant minority, being LDS. We interact with more people, and try to stay friends with our neighbors... But unless they have closets full of preps, they are going to starve if there is any interruption to shopping at stores.

I want society to survive if the s ever htf. I also understand that the prepared will be shot-callers once the s hits the fan. No one *wants* societal break-down. Only retards and idiots want societal break down, and only retards and idiots are not preparing for it. And the prepared will be restoring order, if it ever does happen.

From where we live the closest LDS family is not ~too far away. He is a college professor. He owns a sidearm, and shoots it once a year, we have shot together. We have talked about protecting each other if the need ever arose... The problem is he isn't a fighter, and has a more Polyanna outlook on the world. But it is better than nothing... And for a professor, he is more conservative-minded than most...

Lot's of good and hard working people in this country are going thru very tough times. Getting welfare does not equate worthless or stupid. I had to myself for a few months many years ago. The second I didn't need it I dropped it, even though I had months of benefits left. Our government has practically destroyed American industry. I agree that plenty of people are taking advantage of it, but not all who use it are worthless or stupid.

Generally speaking, folks living on a manicured 5 acres are not FSA.

I guess the real question is, how do you let your neighbors die, while they see you somewhat thrive.

I more so get worried about security, with them seeing my livestock, garden, and power sources knowing I have heat and some comforts like endless electricity.

All it takes is for one of them to rifle me through my window at night, or kill/steal livestock at night.  These are the things I worry about.

Unless you have such a remote bugout location, you will always find neighbors who will put their survival higher than your own.

Not now.

Let what little food and water they may have run out and things can change very quickly.

Don't underestimate the willingness of people that seem kind and collected under normal conditions to fuck you over.

Men will pull plows, women will be concubines.

A pile of rotten wood at the end of the driveway with a sign: "will trade for food".

Of course, the cows and chickens making a lot of noise will likely blow my cover 

I would venture a guess that half the folks out here have chickens, large gardens. And half if those half started in the last couple years.

That's a tough scenario. Even good people would likely kill you if they were watching their kid starve to death.

That sign implies that you have something of value to trade.  If that's the intent ... fine ... but if you want to discourage scavengers, a better sign would read: "Will work for food."

I'd be more worried about what she has already said to them than what happens with future disasters.

If those who are prepared are effective in establishing order, a system of society, and a way for  the unprepared to work for food, they will have a valve for getting their kids food, and won't have to resort to murder.

Heck... There are posts here on arfcom of folks who have written that they keep guns and ammo so they don't have to be prepared.

I have told this story before... I was in the gym, talking with one of my buddies about preps, getting stuff from the LDS storehouse specifically, and another guy over-heard us. The guy who over-heard our conversation says, "I have a .45, I am going to get whatever I want if I need to."

Both me and my buddy flipped-out.

"You are going to resort to murder. You are capable of murder?"

The douche says, "My kids won't starve."

"If you care about your kids so much, get some preps, get extra food and supplies, and when lead is in the air, you will not last very long with just a handgun."

The folks who start pulling the trigger to steal, will have written their own death certificate... No  one wants to live like that. There is a flip-side to s hitting the  fan... If people are killing to steal, the laws in place to give them a fair trial will be gone also. Frankly, you steal, you die. People might be more-honest if the punishment is death.

There are folks who will capitalize on people needing food... Namely folks with the ability to produce food. It is great being LDS. The LDS Church has dairies, farms, ranches, and orchards with the ability to produce more food.

People can adapt, learn new  skills, and --although it is painful-- work. Want food? Great. Come to the Church orchard, and weed, work, and pick your own apples. You are fed, society functions, everyone wins. No one is selling sex. No one is getting shot.

I wonder about folks who need constant medical care to survive. I wonder about folks who need medical care to survive. Those folks will be the most difficult to help...

Yeah, the pile of crappy wood...

But i get your point. But like i said, my critters will blow my cover.

Know and form relationships with as many neighbors as you can. Be the neighbor you want others to be. Manage your brand. Though I'm a survivalist, I don't talk SHTF with my neighbors. I'm the hippie "motherearthnews" type that raises chickens, grows a garden, and dabbles in candle making, soap making, etc.

Yeah, if something shuts off utilities suddenly for the long term you and your neighbors are pretty much screwed. Them's the breaks. The good news is Rome didn't fall in a day. Civilization has yet to totally breakdown. Look at Argentina and Venezuela. The slow degradation of infrastructure, lose of buying power, higher crime, and shortages of commodities is the SHTF norm.


This relationship and slow decline allows you to say, "Neighbor, it might be a good time to till some of that 5 acres. I can have the tractor down here Wednesday." The more neighbors you can get on board the better.

Outside of SSS I think you have to prep for your neighbors or plan on SSS.
I believe there will be friends and enemies and few in between in most TEOTEAWKI scenarios.
If you have the ability to be a leader in these times you should become one. Teach them to garden and help out  with animal's.
You will need guards on patrol.
When it's life or death gardening will become and intense activity from people scaring away Birds shooting rabbits for soup and even going along and picking bugs off of leaves.
Add a couple out building to your plans one can be a great playroom today and a bunkhouse tomorrow.
Build a food processing canning and eating room.
Putting in place space that keeps them out of your house.
I just cannot imagine watching the neighborhood kids starve to death because it was easier to just shoot the parent's.

I've read the whole 299 Days book series, and one can only hope it turns into a Pierce Point for our neighborhoods if it ever happened in our lifetime.  The problem with that book however, is the boundaries were clearly drawn in that book, you're either on Pierce Point, or on the other side if the bridge.

Most of us aren't so lucky, I know my neighbors pretty well, there are 4 other families on our dead end street.  My house is at the very end of the street, and all of us are surrounded by a commercial farm.  So I feel I picked my location pretty well with security, and seclusion in mind.  But the problem is just because I know every family on my street pretty well, they know their surrounded neighbors pretty well too, and then those neighbors know their neighbors pretty well.

Because someone knows someone else, it becomes this game of telephone.  Like "hey, I heard from johnny, through bill, through sam the next street over, that Blu3Ridge at the end of SHTF Lane, has XYZ".

I guess that's the other worry, is people are all so inter-connected still, word of mouth will travel.  You can neighborhood up all you want, but people will still know that the neighborhoods a few streets down is thriving, while they're dying.

Sure, I could always secure my dead end street and neighborhood. But it's not just your neighbors you have to worry about, it's everyone else within... horse back distance, to worry about too.

Or Unarmed

Have a sit down discussion.

Ask how much money your wife feels the two of you should put towards providing for the neighbors.

If you have kids make sure she draws a line where she feels food should be for just you, her, and your kids.

To some extent some bulk rice and beans stored in 55 gallon drums is not that expensive and would keep the neighbors fed.  Does she expect them to eat what you eat?  What about rotating that much food through the pantry?  Lots of folks have trouble rotating just the food stored for the family, storing for more people means that much more needing rotated.

I don't think ignoring the neighbors would really work, because it can turn into you having to shoot them to protect what is yours vs. them making you feel threatened to even step outside.  You will die from worry about the safety of your wife and or kids.

Opsec once blown is hard to get back.  But there are ways if you get everyone on the same page.  Talking about some unexpected expenses and having to eat your stored food is one way.  Being glad you thought ahead to store the food is also a good mention. 

I want things to get back to normal, everyone can have their specialty and barter it since I think it will work best for someone good at felling trees to be the fire wood guy vs. everyone trying to fell trees.  This is just an example, don't anyone have a fit over the fact they can cut trees on their property just fine. 

So I don't mind helping the neighbors somewhat, but I am the sort that will be asking what the heck they can do to help.  If they have problems digging holes for an outhouse or something then they better find themselves something to be useful.

Rigging stuff up for catching and storing rainwater would be something else.  And some of this would be them doing it at their place as well, those toilets on septic systems won't really flush themselves so the water is for that perhaps.  Does not have to be clean to do it.


I forget what poster it was but someone had neighbors coming by during an extended power outage.  Having that generator running made noise and having lights at night was also something that stood out.  He offered warm food and coffee and I think hot showers to many of them.  I forget if he made them bring some gas or whatever.

Many neighbors talked about getting a generator and this or that, of course they never did.

Anyway, I would set up rules for short term stuff like winter ice storm or hurricane or beer shortage and I would also have rules for more extreme things like super duper inflation and problems being able to actually live on your budget and basically wondering if you and the wife and kids will be healthy and well fed next year cause the world wants another world war.

Really good reply.  There has to be a balance for every level of situtation when utilities and resources become short.  

Our one neighbor was very gracious and did this; long story short is last year when the blizzard hit the mid-atlantic region, we had 3-4 feet of snow, my neighbor knew I would be away at work (I'm a professional fire/medic), and my wife and I just had a newborn.  He told us if the power ever went out, he'd come for my wife and baby, and keep her at his house for a few days until utilites are restored as he had a home generator where at that time, we just moved in, and did not.  

Needless to say, figuring out your level of mercy is something we all should consider. It needs to be within reason, but we also need hard lines that cannot be crossed.

It is better to show some mercy to not make enemies, than to display none, and open youself up towards being threatened.  Most people would rather go after the "asshole neighbor" and kill and loot their home, than harm the man and his family who showed some kindness to him.

It it is truly SHTF scenario.......those not in your 'like minded' group become liabilities.   I've been telling people at work to prep for years.  They joke, "Na, we'll just come to your place."  NO YOU WON'T!!

Tell her the neighbors are part of your long term food storage plans

I can't afford to feed my entire neighborhood long term. I work hard and sacrifice for the meager preps I have now. I'll help others where I can, maybe a meal or two. After that they need to move along.
I'm not putting away long-term supplies for strangers.

No, the question is: how can you let your family die in order to delay the inevitable result of everyone dyinging sooner by feeding empty mouths that showed up to the party with a three day supply of tennis shoes and an empty Kleenex box?

And if you're smart, they won't see you 'thriving'. You're a fool to not go out and suffer with them and allow them to see you are in the same boat.... that neighbor you play cards with and help work on his car is capable of dong some awful things when his kids haven't seen a meal in two weeks and you possess the only canned food he knows about in his entire world.

I find low and slow to be the best. Can't go wrong.

They are going to die.
Get well stay well no excuse.

One of my grandmothers lived on a ranch during the depression.  She said that when people would come looking for food her father would offer them some in exchange for doing some work.

It was that or I had to steal food. Illness and a bit of bad luck when I was very young. I hear you though, people get addicted.

I've thought some more about this. We have a group of family and friends that we trust. But we don't live in the same neighborhood. A few miles apart, close enough if we don't have anything to do but sit around looking thru scopes, but how often does that happen? That's why the slow decay destroys things.

You can't survive as a lone wolf. You need a community to support you and you support them. Calling all neighbors stupid is not smart. You'd be surprised to learn about their skills. No everyone has enough time to spend on raising livestock and a garden while they work full time.
Get to know your neighbors well, before you make any conclusions.
I often laugh when I read comments like - "You come to my house and I'll shoot you". Really? You will shoot a small kid asking you for a piece of bread? Will you be able to live with yourself after that? Think about it. Is that what your church teaches you to do?
What about telling people that you have nothing to give? Do you really think you'll be able to keep this a secret? What will people think when they see you well fed while they lost half of their weight due to starvation? The good neighbors will do noting about it but the bad ones will unite and take your place by force. They can also inform the local government and all of your stored food will be confiscated and distributed in the community.
Your kids will tell their friends that you have tons of food secretly stored in the house. Kids do talk even if you tell them not to tell anyone about it.
This is how it has been since the beginning and this is how it will be. Just read history books about it.

IMHO, your best choice is to have neighbors on your side. If things turn bad, teach them about gardening, help them with seeds and whatever else you can spare. They in turn can help you with manual labor or other skills they may have. Of course there are "bad apples" in every village. Having good neighbors on your side will help protect you from the bad ones.

The saying of good fences make good neighbors has been around a long time for a reason. No reason to be a dick, wave back if they wave while driving by but you dont need to throw summer cookouts either. Just worry about your lil square and go about your life. Does it really matter if people come up hat in hand if they lived next door or where from the slums across town? Point is deal with that IF IT EVER HAPPENS THEN.

The deceptive types won't just charge the door. There's a whole class of folks that get by being sly, manipulative, liars.

They'll show up with a few things and knock you off in your sleep, poison/contaminate your well, attack someone off site to lure you out, etc.


Past performance is the best indicator of future performance...keep an eye on things.

I've heard a couple folks mention the "just take" technique. First instinct is to encourage them to prepare and condemn the behavior, but you may be better served by asking a follow up question to see how much thought they put into it. Someone who has a thorough plan? They've made a conscious decision to hurt the innocent. If you see that guy coming, you know what's on his mind. Other knuckle heads who say it as a joke? The totality of their character has to come into play when making the final judgment.


The whole, how much do you share scenario is too situational. Short term vs long term, severity, etc. set the stage. Share what you can afford to share, within reason.

We can all guess what will happen if the ballon goes up.  I'm sure that it will vary from person to person.

However, being in and around people who live on plats like the OP describes, I think most of them (in my area at least) will do just fine.

Just about everyone around me on those 5 or so acres are there because they wanted to get away from people and be a little more on their own.  Most own small tractors, have ATVs of some sort, have garden plots - if not trying to do the hobby farm thing, shoot and hunt, and are generally outdoors people who can fend for themselves.

There are much worse people to be around in the middle of a catastrophe.

Get to know your neighbors, see what they have to offer.  Ideally, if things got bad, their land could be turned into crops. They'd be your advance notice, they'd be your extra trigger pullers. Build the bonds of frith and community, and maybe, just maybe, your neighbors will be the ones to drop the guy who would drop you when you're walking out back to tend the livestock.

I live in a urban area. Relatively nice and the community is nice. There are though, many unprepared families in the nieghborhood.
Our family is storing up for STHF. However for instance my father is storing the food, water, seeds  ect. in his 10 acre lands. Me an my brothers are
storing ammo and defensive preps mind you what every else we can store such as medical. In my case i keep minimal preps at my house
and plan to bug out. Should take less than 45 minuets to bug out to my dads like should everything go smoothly. Hell no i will not bug in.

This in a nut shell.  Never 'assume'.  Never 'trust'.  Always watch/measure/assess.  Depending on SHTF (think civil war, images out of the middle east and such) you will need hard (very hard) trust worthy 'friends' willing to do the unthinkable in times of struggle.  Never, ever assume that 'everyone is good by nature': not true and it can be deadly to you and yours.  When someone's standard of living drops out under them, the unthinkable can (and probably will) happen.  Just my .02 and how we (out here in the 'sticks') think about things ......

Another thought by me:  we also have family who say if things go south, they will just come to our place (way out here in the country, we raise cattle and grow a yearly garden and such).  I say, 'no problem - just bring a million calories (preferably 1.5 million)'.  I get the look.  I explain that's what will get them (as an individual) through the next year time period feeding themselves.  Most folks have NO idea how much food (fuel) an individual consumes yearly and what it would take to both produce/prepare/store that amount of 'fuel' especially working hard/burning calories daily.  Have to think long term with (God forbid) the minimum of energy (electric, fuels, etc. - since we are on only wood heat here - we do have a vast amount of wood and the ability to harvest/transport ).
The idea of a sudden collapse is one thing - the prospect of a long term 'outage' is a whole different animal ............

I agree with this. I can't turn away people in need when I know and love them. We all die. I won't go out alone clinging to that last can of beans.

Neighbor dependency is heavily reliant on where you are. Not everyone has similar mindsets. I live in a city of 2.5 million people 100% dependent on imports from elsewhere to sustain. People here rarely if ever speak to their neighbors let alone get to know them. This I'm sure is different for the local LDS community, however I am not LDS so I do not know. 99% of people I talk to here have zero preps, not even enough to sustain them through a bad weekend let alone something serious.

If things went tits up here, especially in the summer time when temps are at or near 110F things will go bad in a hurry. I keep preps however I have found that my best situation would be to load up what I can and do my best to escape town before they literally loot and burn it to the ground. There are only 5 points of egress from Las Vegas valley by on road vehicle and if some advantageous devious individuals decide to road block or start attacking at any of these choke points it would be a bad day. I intent to make it out before they have the chance.

I would say to anyone with an off road capable vehicle to know your local rail road tracks and access points to them. When roads are going to be inundated by the rest of everyone they may be the only real means of escape

the assumption in these threads is usually that the neighbors are the prime danger. They are a danger, but, if anything history teaches us that our own government is probably our prime threat......one only has to look to Ukraine in the middle of last century, Venezuela today, Cambodia in 70's, to realize that whenever there is a shortfall in food, food production, critical supplies the government will turn on it's citizens to cover the shortfalls. The government will gleefully kill it's citizens in order to maintain control of it's own security forces, to keep them fed.

This, get them to start large gardens, ease them into self sufficiency, show them that they can grow a hell of a lotta food on one acre of land.

You want brutal honesty?
Doesnt matter if its country or uban location, 95% of people are all but useless during serious disaster and especially long term crisis. (and I'm a very positive guy, that 5% is probably more like 1%)
The way I'd go about it is make your location as hard and as easy to defend as possible. You need a fenced/walled perimeter. You need a dog or better yet dog(s) between the house and that permieter, and the house itself needs to be tough, masonry walls, bars and security door. The day THAT's not enough (highly unlikely, but it does happen) you need to get the hell out of there. No, you wont form a band of hardy survivalists fighting all year round against all odds. The men all healthy, lean and mean combat vets with no drug/alochol/mental problems. The women as tough and healthy as the guys+ swimsuit models. Life isnt a Hollywood movie.
Other than that be nice to your neighbours, help out when you can, chances are you'll never get to suffer first hand how useless they can be when SHTF.
Oh, the day you start handing out food to the people around you is literally the day you should be bugging out of the State, maybe the entire country. (I've been in that exact same situation, people in venezuela have been in it for a few years now as well)
FerFAL