This is why I'm such a pessimist when it comes to a large scale event that disrupts utilities for any real length of time.

I build high rise buildings for a living so I have to go where the buildings are. My metro area has 2,200 pp/sq mi. I commute 40+ miles so I can live in a more rural area. Even out here in farm country the density is still 74 pp/sq mi. You'll be hard pressed to get lower than 40 pp/sq mi in Indiana.  I can't imagine what a nightmare it would be attempting to feed everyone here w/o modern agriculture and this is where the food is supposed to be!

Biggest city in my county is around 14K.  Fortunately its 40 miles away.  I have no desire to live in our around said city.

Out of giggles. It's showing a population density of  39 people per square mile.

Town is only 2.5 miles total...and showing 1400+ population .(2015 numbers only estimate it at 2400) But I'm sure it's seasonal  population or they are combining the popukation from the village few miles in.We got a dollar general after all  Big city life here boys...lol 

Since we're piling on: "Hypocritical, Socialist Liberals"...the worst of the worst

I honestly like different opinions and points of view and I seek them routinely.  The irony with modern "liberals" is that they are extremely (and irrationally) close-minded; they can't listen to or even entertain a differing point of view.  I know our Army tries to look very homogenous in our new, cool Multicam (or Army-patent equivalent) uniforms, but we are really a diverse cross-section of society from all walks of life, backgrounds, race, creed, etc..  Yes we have rank structure and yes we have our share of jackasses and issues, but I've seen real "diversity" work well brainstorming solutions and solving problems when people actually get an opportunity to voice their intelligent opinions.  To me, "worldly and open minded" often reflect an elitist, hypocritical and often prejudiced slice of society.  I know FerFal is from Argentina and I would opine that most countries have developed almost "caste" type societies where mobility is strictly controlled.  If you're born into poverty, that is where you will live and die.  I've seen my share of impoverished countries and people...the last thing on their mind is "worldly and open mindedness" thoughts...they're just trying to survive another day.  Meanwhile the higher class citizens espouse their value to society and live an artificial life that is built around retaining power and keeping the impoverished under control.  Every "city" I've visited in South America, Africa and South West Asia have extreme examples of this kind of disparity.  Yet socialist dictators get put on pedestals for being "open minded and worldly"...no thank you.

ROCK6

Where is that damn "like" button?

The county where I have my cabin has the following stats (rounded off)

Over 4,900 square miles.

4,300 people in the county.

1,700 of those live in the 3 main towns.

The population density according to the last census has really jumped since the last time I checked it.

It is up to .9 people per square mile.  That is point 9.

Outside of those 3 main towns, and houses close to town, it is pretty remote.

In fact, if you dropped a pin, and drew a 10 mile arc around my cabin, there is exactly 1 residence that is occupied full time, and 1 other cabin.



The family is totally good with it too.  

So....why have you not given us more info on this neat cabin of yours?  Don't be a tease....details!  Your earlier pics were just a teaser!

Next to the ignore button......on wait...

We have 4 people per square mile but most are in towns 50 miles away.
And it still seems crowded some days.

The short version is that I always wanted one, but could not afford it.

I ended up being a high threat protection contractor overseas, and made some good money. With part of it, I had the cabin roughed in, plumbed, and the electrical done. I figured i could do the rest over time, on my own and save money. My parcel is 40 acres and it borders on 2 sides by Forest Service/BLM, and it has very limited access. I ended up paying a bit more for the land, due to where it was situated. I don't like having debt, and try not to do things on credit, if possible, for financial security reasons.

The land was paid for first, then the cabin built like the johnny cash song, "one piece at a time", as I could afford it. Everything is paid for, so no bills except the property taxes.

The cabin is a bit deceiving from the outside. It actually has a full basement. The basement allows me to store food/canned goods down there in a nice cool stable environment. It also keeps anything that might entice a thief , out of view. Over the porch is a good size sleeping loft, which sleeps 2 with ease. On the back side, above the one actual bedroom is another loft of equal size.

The whole place is heated by a wood stove, and it is very easy to heat. In spite of the fact that it sits on a sagebrush section, it is not far from some big stands of timber. The inside is rather spartan, but I am good with that.

Aside from most things running on propane, I had the place set up to run on a generator too. The generator is actually way bigger than I need but that is ok too.

The gen shed is faced away from the cabin to minimize the noise. The fuel is stored with "Stabil" in it, and a little actually goes a long ways.

Shown here:




Stove going, and keeping is toasty warm:







We also have a pretty decent outhouse, complete with a window that faces a big basin where the deer, elk and antelope wander through.

Noticed that too. A few people I have in my ignore list all posting bunching up together...like their panties. Its that gang mentality at work. Then again, the entire planet is getting more GD-like lately. Not much room for debate or discussion just narrow-minded one-liners or insults.

Of course it is.(and there’s a broad spectrum between dirt poor and big money snobs, no that being rich, or poor for that matter makes you a bad person) A town that isnt doing well economically speaking is likely to be dead in no time when times get tough. Hell, many die when the economy barely sneezes.  You only need to drive for a few hours across any American State to see numerous examples of ghost towns or towns that are practically dead. In most of these its the economy that didn’t work. A town that cant pay the bills isnt in any way “conductive to survival”. It will have less resources, keep up roads, etc. and the people in it are likely to have less resources themselves. That’s not the kind of place you want to be in when times get tough. There’s plenty of small and medium size towns that have stong enough economies. If its small it will usually revolve around one industry. Maybe a university, some big company employing people, agro. I would at least like something big enough and economically solid enough to survive if whatever industry or company keeping that town alive happens to go down. In Texas you have some towns that combine agro with tech or education and are still small enough to fit the bill. That’s the kind of place where I would put my eye on. If commodities take a dive, there’s still another balancing industry that compensates and the same the other way around.

That’s exactly what I said. Read again the line you just quoted from me:

I said that in a 50k to 100k town you are likely to find that social-economic variety some of us look for.

I’m not using any code words here, I say open minded as in open minded people, as in opposed to ignorant, intellectually narrow minded people incapable of learning anything, let alone having any kind of discussion  or somewhat advanced thought process. I mean worldly people as in people that have travelled the world a bit. Not in a snobbish way but as someone that has been out and about a bit. That’s a personal preference of mine as in people I enjoy talking with any given afternoon. It can be someone that served in the military and travelled a bit around the world because of his job or someone that does it for business or pleasure, but in any case its interesting people. I don’t like elitists, I find them quite boring and self-centered. These would be the kind of people that have travelled to a hundred countries yet learned nothing at all. Narrow-minded rich people if you will.
Maybe its what the American MSM is portraying as “worldly”, but I can tell you that anyone adventurous enough to travel around the world, live in different places will generally be far more conservative and independent than you seem to believe.  I can say that with certainty because I’m often surrounded by such people myself. If there’s one thing we strive for is independence, we don’t need nor appreciate bureaucracy and gov intervention. Hell, it’s the furthest away you could possibly be from “rely-on government groups”. Some of the people I know only need a sailboat and laptop to not just survive but live well in any continent. Some even need less than that.
FerFAL

Thank you for the info.
Looks and sounds awesome!

I was defining it differently.  I agree with this assessment, so I'll chock my response up to poor interpretation.  Americans are generally an entitled society; those who I define as "worldly" pertains more to their ideology rather than experience.  Once you get away from the liberal crowds and into the smaller towns, you find far more conservative populations where they are less apt to appreciate any form or big-government or bureaucracies.  What the world sees in America is often that loud, liberal (and entitled) minority.  I've seen the same from my own travels.  Governments hostile to America really don't reflect their own small-town populations.  People are people, regardless of the culture.  You have your slice of bad apples and elitists; and then you have your average citizens just wanting to live a relatively peaceful existence without much interference or disruption.  

The difference was in my definition.  I think it was just interpreted to what I perceive as negative.  "Worldly" is often associated with UN and more international coexistence strictly for a bureaucratically-focused and controlling type of government.  Open-minded is a good trait, but here it's getting turned on it's head.  Those that consider themselves "open-minded" and more accepting of differences are often the most hypocritically prejudiced group (that progressive, liberal minority).  At face value, I really think we are on the same page; a few differences, but those are culturally influenced.  We are just fighting a very controlling minority of elitists and bureaucrats who want to limit social-economic mobility, independence and certain liberties to maintain their own power and control.  The opposition to conservatism and independence enjoy labeling those individuals as racists, fascists, religious fanatics, and every -phobe in the dictionary.  Society does need government, but our "great experiment" put a lot of emphasis on self-governing and a smaller central government.  Modern societies have put more power into centralized government that the bureaucracy becomes a cancer and without the power of the people applying a little chemo-therapy routinely, that cancer can quickly metastasize and collapse any society through oppressive socialism and the eventual dictatorships that are often inevitable.  

Open minded and worldly are terms that have been bastardized here, much like the term liberal which isn't a bad word, it just got hijacked for political purposes and ideologies.  

ROCK6

I agree. As someone who lives in an area that experiences Hurricanes/flood when it gets bad there are a few key things to keep in mind.

1. Traffic getting out is terrible/gridlocked.
2. Gas stations either have lines or sometimes run out of gas.
3. Store's are busy as hell and shelves start running low on useful stuff.
Problem with your suggestion is its hard to earn a living/maintain your normal life-style in BFE.




My family has always been a part of a hunting lease (different one's at different times) in a more rural area of the state. Know a few other people who bought land (group buy with friends) in a rural area just for camping/trail riding. Truth be told invite the locals to a BBQ or two and provide them with beer and they are usually pretty good about keeping an eye on things for you when your away and can even be relied on if you run into an emergency. The idea of buying in a smaller town is OK but who can afford an entire second mortgage/home?  It's one thing to build a 'get away' cabin or have a camp-ground to park your camper/RV and out-fit it with facilities. Its another thing entirely to have an entire second home with full utilities and all that.



In my opinion a long term lease on rural land or purchasing acreage that you develop with buddies. Call it a hunting camp or weekend get-away spot is a bit more feasible/affordable.

I live 25 miles from the nearest grocery store, full-time not a Bug out location. It's three and a half miles on a dirt road from the mailbox to my house. The community has 3600 acres and 299 Lots but some people own multiples and some will probably never be built on because they were bought  just for the hunting rights.

The neighborhood has a 3000 foot grass lighted Runway, rifle pistol trap and skeet ranges, heated pool, tennis courts, a lodge with a restaurant that's open on the weekends. You can keep your horses on your own property but there's also Community Stables were other people do the work for you at a pretty reasonable price. And there's even a cattle lease in the neighborhood

It's surrounded by tens of thousands of Acres of cattle and dairy operations.
120 of my neighbors have NRA range safety officer certification. There are retired police officers and Military and even some active LEO.
All the homes are on well and septic and because the water table is so high you can keep a hand pump on your well in case the electricity isn't available. And toilets flush just fine using a bucket. My house has a small pond as do many of my neighbors but they're also several larger ponds and an alligator farm adjacent to our neighborhood.
We are about an hour and 15 minutes from Orlando International Airport yes 40 miles from the nearest ghetto, even a small one.
I feel like without being hundreds of miles away from the nearest city we're about as self-sufficient and safe as possible.

Ztug.

Sounds good.
Its like my distances from major issues.
Chinamart is 35 miles away..as all the other big box stores.
Well on ours is free flowing...but we still have water/sewer per say. From the water management in the area.
One of the first things I did was get that up and going.

This was the odd situation we had when we purchased this home.  I was using my VA loan and the home has it's own well, but since the county does have water at the main road (only about 300 meters to the road), the loan requirement was that the house needed to have that county/city water run to the house.  They actually hooked everything up for city water just prior completing the deal.  Once we finished the deal and moved in, I cut the city water off and hooked our well pump back up.  I really think "water rights" are going to be in jeopardy in the near future...

ROCK6

Having the option of both is a nice redundancy to have though.

It is, but I've never seen a well setup like this before.  Our house use to be an old barn and the well is a concrete well about three feet in diameter and is located inside the house with the pump sitting on-top.  The water table is probably only 30-40 feet (I haven't measured exactly).  If power is out, I can rig up a generator, but another option is a shallow-depth hand-pump that I plan to rig up as a tertiary backup.  I'm not overly please with the home construction, but the best attributes are weather, water (the well and 12 acre lake outside our door) and location.  

ROCK6

Another +1 on the water.  I have a very healthy deep well, which flows freely for several months, spring into summer.  The rest of the seasons its only a few feet down below the top depending on usage.  I also have a couple streams nearby, one only 100 yards from the house.  Last year was they driest year I have seen in my AO in about a decade.  The way trends are going, all the forest fires in the north west and AK can defiantly lead someone to their own conclusion.  Another few weeks of dryness in our AO last year and we may have very well seen some serious wild land fires.  We don't usual have serious fires, and I don't think our area would cope very well.  

Serious question or two here
I see some people using those small camp wood stoves to heat tents and such; how many square feet are you heating with that little thing, and do you find the labor needed to chop wood down to a useable size to be a PITA?
I consider the wood stove that came with my house to be a PITA because I have to cut wood down to 14 inches for a stove that heats a house under 1000 sq ft

I don't agree with that assessment. The people with no ties who spend their lives travelling the globe are what used to be called the bohemians. Not exactly a conservative bunch

I disagree entirely as well. The people most likely to be conservative that I've known are living on at least a few acres away from town, have family in the area(usually grew up nearby), and may have never left the country other than military service. I've met many well-traveled people and very few are what I would consider "conservative." Laissez-faire, maybe, but usually left-leaning liberal. That's just my experience, other's may be different.

FerFAL has some valuable, but narrow experience that he is happy to offer as authoritative insight into all things SHTF/prepper. FerFAL, I think you would get a better reception with commentary other than things like "I can say with certainty." Your comments do serve as a reminder of how people from other countries, with little to no experience living here, view ours.

Regional differences matter, certainly within this country. A generality that usually works is the further you get from population centers, the more conservative the population. Go too far into isolation, however, and things may get weird. It all depends, everywhere is different as are people's preferences.

I'm not sure being total isolated is a good idea. I came across this off-grid home this morning. While it might seem to be an ideal BOL - 120 acres, off-the-grid, deep well, see around the place forever, tons of game, etc - the thing I took from the seller's video is that they are getting old and I'm guessing medical care is becoming a priority. I turn 60 this year so I can see their point.

http://www.rockspringshouse.com/

I'm thinking being in a small community of like-minded people might be the best. I have a client who moved to Belize a few years ago. She's in her 70s and her husband is in his early 90s. She moved to a Mennonite community about 25 miles from the capital city of Belmopan. Her goal was a lower cost of living and a community where she would have friends to care for her after her husband passes away. Her 3 BR, 2 BA house cost her $75,000 to have built. The problems I'd have with this is that it is a foreign country with crappy gun laws and the Mennonites, while very good people, are pacifists.

I worry that people will be following the streams and rivers as they flee the cities. Both polluting everything down stream and being a potential threat.
I went for a year round spring in BFE. And a well...

Having a place you can go to if things go over the top is a wise idea. I'd say it's a slightly different concept than being a primary location to head to.
Always have a backup plan.

Tactical Relocation, Skousen
May be a good filtering book when looking for places.

I could live there easily.

I actually had to get a smaller stove, as the one I had in it previously was cooking us out. During late elk season temps normally range from 20 degrees to 20 below. With the previous stove we were having to open the windows and door, to cool the place off.   The newer smaller stove keeps things plenty warm and uses very little wood. When I insulated the place, I basically stuffed twice the amount of normal insulation between the studs, so it is extremely well insulated.  

I have a very close source for more wood than I could ever want to haul. Normal firewood permit is for 4 cords a year. I normally bring in maybe 1 cord, and the wood pile keeps getting bigger.  Last year I did not bring any wood in, as I have been trying to burn down what we already have stacked.  I am set up to heat with propane too, but pretty much never do. The wood is so easy it makes sense to save the propane for other things. Besides, a logging outfit has left such large slash piles, that sometimes I don't even cut any trees, I just grab pickup loads of bark, and other slash. Bark burns super hot and will heat the stove literally red hot. In fact, normally I start the fires with bark, then switch to regular wood once the cabin is warm.  The main level is about 16x32, so it does not take much to get the cabin t-shirt comfortable.


Eventually the plan is to build a shop, and use the larger stove in the shop. Since I have built the place as I could afford it, I won't build the shop until I have 100% of the money to do so. Makes life less stressful when you don't have to make a payment, besides property taxes.

You don't seem to know what Bohemian or Bohemianism means.  Look up the definition.  
I know maybe one person than has that artsy fad going for them, but that's it. Expats in general tend to be a conservative bunch, many are former military.  Other people just move around because of work, again many are conservative type profesionals. Some are survivalists or the kind that follow sovereign man and such websites. Granted, some make pretty bad decisions and choose poorly.  Still, no, I'm no Bohemian, sandal wearing Woody Allen type.  
FerFAL

Tactical Relocation is a a very good book, well researched,  and both father and son Skousen are good honest people.  The book does focus though on a nuclear war scenario.  This can get rather biased, worrying more about military bases and wind direction than proximity to hospitals for example,  which objective study shows it to be a main factor for survival rate.
We're all big boys here (ok, some of us are) and we should live with the decisions we make, but in my experience consulting I often find out that people don't actually know such facts or take into account such data. So for example if a couple in their 60s wants to live an hour away from the nearest hospital then that's fine, but they should know the problems involved with such a decision.
FerFAL

Actually, I DID look it up before I posted originally, just to make sure I had it right

"Bohemianism is the practice of an unconventional lifestyle, often in the company of like-minded people, with few permanent ties, involving musical, artistic, literary or spiritual pursuits. In this context, Bohemians may be wanderers, adventurers, or vagabonds."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemianism

That's essentially what's being described in the post I responded to

Meh, muh car runs fine on 1/2 L of whisky...

You and I don't need to bug out.  Our community is what others wish they could have for a community.

I was raised in a small town and most of my family still live in semi- rural areas.  If you buy a house in such an area as a bug out location, plan on spending a considerable amount of time there every year to get to know the locals and make friends. Otherwise if the TSHTF you will be seen as the Johnny come lately new guy.   Damn city slicker coming here trying to talk shit!
Hell, I remember when the “New coach” in Cairo (nearby larger city) had been at the school for over 10 years.  Buying a house, hiring a caretaker and swinging by once a year won't make you a local or welcomed.

They might be the salt of the earth.  But, they might also say: FNGs on fire.  Better go have a couple of beers, so we can piss on him.

Same as going and fleeing to another country.....
Put the time in...its that simple

Yes, that is logical. That is why the place I would pick would be someplace where I could go pretty much every weekend and for at least a week or two during the year, if/until I could live there full time. 

I have a town in mind which would be perfect. Now I just need the cash for a house there. 

I wonder if doing the same thing internationally is even less advantageous.  No offense to FerFal, but I would look at a someone bailing on their own country as someone not loyal or potentially part of the problem and now they're fleeing to safer waters.  Look at the reputation Californians have garnered.  We had several flee Cali and bring their liberal cesspool ideology to Washington and I no longer want to move back to my home state.  Can you guess my feelings if someone from California bought property near me and eventually built a small home only to show up after the SHTF...how accepting would I be or even willing to get to the know the guy/family?  I can only imagine some foreigners would be viewed about the same; some even less.

ROCK6

And thats the kind of educated people you see living in your country (legally)from abroad? your H1B visa holder is usually someone well educated,  with a bachelor degree or equal. Hardly a "vagabond" or bohemian. Bet there are bums here and there but then again  it's about the kind of people you identify and get along with. Again, not the case with most of the expats I meet.

You mean like your founding fathers?
And you immediately discard a person because he's from California? Maybe you want to actually get to know them some first.
People that leave during situations like mine are usually those that have the means to do so. Again,  you may have some scumbag leaving as well but in general it's the best of the country, not the worst, what's called a "brain drain".
Also, if I liked socialist/left/corruption type of living I would have stayed and got a gov. Job rather than leave. There's a member here from Russia that left his country too, probably because he didn't like living under a communist regime. Is he also disloyal and "part of the problem"?
It sure is easy to draw such judgment when you haven't walked a yard in those shoes. Americans I consider friends constantly insisted telling me I should have left years ago. Then again, they are people that actually cared for my family and my own well being.
FerFAL

This is true. 

Also, there is the factor that should a disaster strike and I wind up needing to defend myself from my neighbors, then it would be a lot better to do it in a city of 1,500 people than a metropolitan area of 6,000,000 people. 

All in the numbers...you are correct.

Dude.. 95% of the internet would read your blog stories about your maid being robbed..your wife having an iPod stolen...the crime problem  and advise you to leave.
I'm pretty sure it wasnt for concern but just commonsense with the frequency at which you posted the events.

Persecution is different from being part of the problem; those that originally immigrated were not the elites and affluent, they were oppressed...a little bit of a difference.  Sure, it's a stereotype, but the repeated anecdotal evidence creates a pretty strong perception.  Affluent, elitist liberals are a cancer and when their policies and bleeding hearts lead to blood in the streets with high crime due to a growing poverty gap, they aren't intelligent, just smart enough and wealthy enough to relocate when their utopian dream world implodes.  Unfortunately, that cancer of ideals follows.  Yes, I paint with a broad brush and no, I don't just look at license plates to judge neighbors, but there is a grain of truth that progressive liberal socialists don't change their ways, just their residency.    

It's also easy to judge when running is your strategy instead of staying and fighting.  I won't judge your decision, because every situation is different.  I have friends and family in California.  They complain about cost of living, crime and restricted liberties, but for some it's not easy to just pick up and move due to employment, family ties, etc.  Those that vacate and relocate are either oppressed or inconvenienced...those that are just inconvenienced are typically the problem.   I've been in more cesspool countries where those I walked with didn't even have shoes...those left behind because of the "brain drain" where the elitists drained the economies, bankrupted the country and fled.  Socialist and communistic governments are notorious for such environments and the people have given all the power to the government and when that power becomes overbearing, many flee to protect assets and their failed ideology.  Just don't make any assumptions about where I've walked; I've seen my share of broken lives from corrupt governments and the spineless, complicit affluent population who left a crime/terrorist rich vacuum and abject poverty in their wake.

ROCK6

You've seen, you never had to actually do it yourself.  That's the point. People like myself,  or Gypsy or anyone that left a sinking ship of a country,  we do it because there's nothing left in them for anyone that wants a good normal life. And no, we're not the elites, nor are we part of the problem.
Youve never had to make such a  call in your life so you don't understand. You'd stay in  sucha mess and  risk the life of your family? and all for what exaclty?  Nothing. Of course you wouldn't.   You cant change people that don't want to change and are happy to vote a certain way. They have to learn their mistakes on their own and some of us don't feel like wasting our lives until that moment comes.
It's not a decision made lightly to leave your country behind. But given the mess the place still is today, even worse than when I left, it was the right call.
I'm to blame for Cristina Kirchner as much as you are to blame for Obama.  Since I never voted for her or anyone with her political inclination, how exaclty is it my fault.
FerFAL

I am not going to discount your struggles, and you shouldn't judge or assume what others have gone through.  

Any ways I always read your threads, take in the information, even though from a different perspective and usually notch it as good information.  I sub to your youtube channel (even though you need a tripod) and actually enjoy some of the content.  

As of late on this forum you sure like to tout yourself as the expert, while no one else has a clue?  None of us know what the other may have gone through in their life.

Ether way, you don't live in America, we don't live in Spain.  (That is the country you currently live in correct?)  

Maybe most of us are over judging the hostility in your text, maybe its a language thing, but that's how you come across as of late.

I know I have posted this before but try comparing the UNITED States of America to the "EU".  Each state is like its own separate country.  Alaska is nothing like FL, NY is nothing like TX, CA is nothing like Maine...  So far away they are like different country's.  Each have their own .gov and control.  We travel freely between states just like you can travel freely between countries in the EU.  Maybe try looking at it from a different perspective on occasion?

Not including AK:



-JMHO, we all have 'em...  

my typo...
Had looked at book in the past to determine if TN was a good spot.

Again, it's easy to judge each other when we don't know the situation.  I have made the call...I took an Oath to defend something that was meant to protect the liberties of my family and country; have you ever walked in a Soldier's pair of boots?  Listen FerFal, I truly appreciate your perspective and as empathetic as I want to be, I can never truly understand the situation you were in nor what you and your family had to endure leading to your situation to leave your country.  That is a situation I wouldn't wish on anyone and I'm truly happy that you and your family made it out and are safe...you bring a very different perspective and experience that many of us will likely (hopefully?) never have to face.

Unfortunately, some of our States are moving towards the path of Argentina, Venezuela, etc.  Despite our Constitution, human nature affects leaders to garner more and more power and control.  Socialism destroys societies and we have our own cancer within our borders; it's just not at the national level yet (well, not too much).  Much like your situation, but on a smaller scale, we do have our socialist states and good people/families do "flee" to more conservative states.  What irritates me is that we also have our versions of liberal elites who do the same thing and they spread their socialist ideology to their new location; several states have been polluted that way.  Although it's mostly political now, I do foresee some of our states going through what your country has faced and there will be tough decisions for those seeking liberty and safety for their families.  

Despite my non-vote(s) for Obama, he was (ironically) my commander-in-chief.  On the fortunate side, my Oath is to the Constitution, not an individual or group of bureaucrats...I have an obligation only to the Constitution which is vastly different than every other foreign military I've served with.  Your lessons may be foreign to many, but they are invaluable and should hopefully spark those willing to listen that government corruption, uncontrolled crime and a volatile financial system due to an overloaded socialist/entitlement ideology will destroy any country (or state)...tough decisions will be made and none will be easy.  I have my priorities: God, family and country.  When you lose your country, your next priority is you family and I pray I'm never put in that position or have to make that decision.  

I'm just extending the olive branch because feuding here is useless and counterproductive...plus, I've done my devotional, worked out and I'm on my second cup of coffee this morning  I look forward to future discussions regarding your situation and lessons-learned; we may disagree at times, but do value your perspective and empathize with you and your family as fellow survivalists.

ROCK6