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Posted: 10/21/2016 7:25:41 PM EDT
Every thread regarding respiratory protection generally includes several who claim that without a full body protection suit and lots of other paraphernalia that you're as good as dead anyway, so don't bother with respiratory protection. This is generally based on a mindset of military protection against combat chemical warfare agents.

Here's an example of why that is misguided, and why reasonable respiratory protection might save your life, or at least your health.

A lot of people today probably wished they had an alternative to breathing chlorine gas:
http://www.kshb.com/news/state/kansas/breaking-major-chemical-spill-reported-at-grain-company-in-atchison-kansas
Link Posted: 10/21/2016 7:57:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Would a N90/N100 negate that risk?

New to respiratory protection
Link Posted: 10/21/2016 8:17:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Personally I wouldn't worry about every conceivable chemical thread and just worry more about dust and particles. A cheap dust mask or ar almost a paint respirator. Much easier to pack and not have to worry about the correct filters for the containment. You are probably more likely to encounter some smoke or dust.
Link Posted: 10/21/2016 8:45:36 PM EDT
[#3]
What are good and bad gas masks?





What are good brands?







Who are good dealers?







What are key points to look for?







Are there masks which are comprehensive for all kinds of thread (biological, chemical, nuclear, tear gas, smoke, etc.)?







Do filters have a shelf life? Can you buy extra filters and sit on them for 10/20/30 years or do they need to be replaced every so often?







How often do filters need to be replaced when in use? How many good filters should you have on hand per person?


 



Are there specific models made to work in conjunction with, or side by side with tactical armor helmets?
Link Posted: 10/21/2016 11:38:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Would a N90/N100 negate that risk?

New to respiratory protection
View Quote

No. N90 and N100 are particulate filters, they remove particles from the air.

In this accident you would have needed a chemical cartridge that was effective on chlorine gas. A chemical cartridge that also has a particular filter is called a combination cartridge.

A CBRN rated combination cartridge will protect against the vast majority of threats, as the expensive of a large and heavy filter due to the time requirements for CBRN certification, as its intended purpose is for first responders. There are similar "multigas" + P100 cartridges available with a smaller and lighter physical size, at the expense of run time. There are a few oddball threats that have specialized cartridges, but the regular multigas types available from a variety of manufacturers cover most threats.
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 12:03:19 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Are there masks which are comprehensive for all kinds of thread (biological, chemical, nuclear, tear gas, smoke, etc.)?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Are there masks which are comprehensive for all kinds of thread (biological, chemical, nuclear, tear gas, smoke, etc.)?

Yes there are masks and cartridges that are effective against the vast majority of respiratory hazards, within the limits of an air purifying respirator. No air purifying respirator can make up for an oxygen deficient atmosphere. Common filters are also not effective against carbon monoxide.

Do filters have a shelf life? Can you buy extra filters and sit on them for 10/20/30 years or do they need to be replaced every so often?

Chemical cartridges rely on "active ingredients" so do have a shelf life. 10 years is the longest I have seen. Masks should probably be replaced somewhere between 10 and 20 years depending on their materials.

How often do filters need to be replaced when in use? How many good filters should you have on hand per person?

How long the filter lasts depends on multiple factors, most critically, the concentration of chemicals it's absorbing. High humidity reduces effective life.

A particulate filter is just limited by physical buildup of whatever particles.

That's like asking how much ammo you need.

Are there specific models made to work in conjunction with, or side by side with tactical armor helmets?

Most will work with a helmet. Military ones are made to work with helmets, and most companies also market certain models to LE for riot control.

What are good and bad gas masks?

What are good brands?

Who are good dealers?

What are key points to look for?

I'm just a user, but IMO, good is a quality, recent production mask from a known reputable vendor of respiratory protection products.

A non-all-inclusive list of brand names would be Scott Safety, MSA, 3M, Drager.

Tons of industrial safety vendors out there to choose from. Do not fall into the "gas mask" trap of limiting your thinking to military surplus type products and vendors. In most cases I would avoid the military products for a civilian preparedness application.

The easiest thing to look for, if you don't want to have to get into the weeds of learning this stuff, is to just get CBRN rated masks and filters. The downside, as I mentioned above, is that CBRN is intended for first responders, and the filters have a long run time requirement. That sounds great, except that the downside to long run time is a large filter that is physically heavy on the face, and harder to breathe through. CBRN filters are heavier than NIOSH (or OSHA, can't remember) allows for regular industrial use. Personally I have the Scott regular multigas filters and the Pro2000/M120 masks. The main thing with masks to make sure they FIT. If a particular brand/style doesn't fit your face, get something else that does.
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 5:54:20 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Every thread regarding respiratory protection generally includes several who claim that without a full body protection suit and lots of other paraphernalia that you're as good as dead anyway, so don't bother with respiratory protection. This is generally based on a mindset of military protection against combat chemical warfare agents.

Here's an example of why that is misguided, and why reasonable respiratory protection might save your life, or at least your health.

A lot of people today probably wished they had an alternative to breathing chlorine gas:
http://www.kshb.com/news/state/kansas/breaking-major-chemical-spill-reported-at-grain-company-in-atchison-kansas
View Quote

Couldnt agree more. NBC suits are needed for NBC attacsk but theres hundreds of other far more common disasters where the respirator alone will make all the difference in the world.
I always recommend a  quality military respirator as part of a complete disaster & emergency kit.
Even for edc I think a respirator should be kept in your bag. Heck, I keep two.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 6:55:22 AM EDT
[#7]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How long the filter lasts depends on multiple factors, most critically, the concentration of chemicals it's absorbing. High humidity reduces effective life.





A particulate filter is just limited by physical buildup of whatever particles.





That's like asking how much ammo you need.
Most will work with a helmet. Military ones are made to work with helmets, and most companies also market certain models to LE for riot control.
I'm just a user, but IMO, good is a quality, recent production mask from a known reputable vendor of respiratory protection products.





A non-all-inclusive list of brand names would be Scott Safety, MSA, 3M, Drager.





Tons of industrial safety vendors out there to choose from. Do not fall into the "gas mask" trap of limiting your thinking to military surplus type products and vendors. In most cases I would avoid the military products for a civilian preparedness application.





The easiest thing to look for, if you don't want to have to get into the weeds of learning this stuff, is to just get CBRN rated masks and filters. The downside, as I mentioned above, is that CBRN is intended for first responders, and the filters have a long run time requirement. That sounds great, except that the downside to long run time is a large filter that is physically heavy on the face, and harder to breathe through. CBRN filters are heavier than NIOSH (or OSHA, can't remember) allows for regular industrial use. Personally I have the Scott regular multigas filters and the Pro2000/M120 masks. The main thing with masks to make sure they FIT. If a particular brand/style doesn't fit your face, get something else that does.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



How often do filters need to be replaced when in use? How many good filters should you have on hand per person?





How long the filter lasts depends on multiple factors, most critically, the concentration of chemicals it's absorbing. High humidity reduces effective life.





A particulate filter is just limited by physical buildup of whatever particles.





That's like asking how much ammo you need.







Are there specific models made to work in conjunction with, or side by side with tactical armor helmets?





Most will work with a helmet. Military ones are made to work with helmets, and most companies also market certain models to LE for riot control.
What are good and bad gas masks?





What are good brands?





Who are good dealers?





What are key points to look for?



I'm just a user, but IMO, good is a quality, recent production mask from a known reputable vendor of respiratory protection products.





A non-all-inclusive list of brand names would be Scott Safety, MSA, 3M, Drager.





Tons of industrial safety vendors out there to choose from. Do not fall into the "gas mask" trap of limiting your thinking to military surplus type products and vendors. In most cases I would avoid the military products for a civilian preparedness application.





The easiest thing to look for, if you don't want to have to get into the weeds of learning this stuff, is to just get CBRN rated masks and filters. The downside, as I mentioned above, is that CBRN is intended for first responders, and the filters have a long run time requirement. That sounds great, except that the downside to long run time is a large filter that is physically heavy on the face, and harder to breathe through. CBRN filters are heavier than NIOSH (or OSHA, can't remember) allows for regular industrial use. Personally I have the Scott regular multigas filters and the Pro2000/M120 masks. The main thing with masks to make sure they FIT. If a particular brand/style doesn't fit your face, get something else that does.



From what I have seen, and you have helped a lot Gamma762, is that some military masks (the better ones) have a water intake option--that is, the ability to drink without removing the mask. This is great for very long term exposure, but those masks are 2 to 3 times the price of a comparable non-military option.  The likelihood of needing to wear a mask long enough that you would need water intake, and no be able to remove the mask, is very small. I guess if you can afford it, having one would be great.  However you probably should also have a non-military mask which is easier to use and have a greater field of vision, as these other masks would have a much greater possibility of being useful in a whole lot of more common disasters.




 
 
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 7:59:27 AM EDT
[#8]
m-90    no way

m-100  for short term

need   deftec - 1000's   available to civilians

240 $$ range. also need xtra filter
ck date on expiration

no me bit from an n.b.c. expert I know

I take it as gospel

1texan
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 9:15:37 AM EDT
[#9]
Slightly off topic here.... I know earlier posters are talking gases.  In my case I definitely know filters have a place in SHTF gear.  I can easily think of several applications.

Dust.  Neighbor was state topper, and spent a fair bit of time in NYC after 9/11.  He is currently medically incapacitated:  Exposure to all the various dusts trashed his lungs.  Check any earthquake news reel....  The survivors are digging thru rubble looking for the trapped, and they are all coated in dusts....

On site home use.  You'll only have to clean a chicken coop, or try to hand winnow grains once to know that you really need a particulate mask.  Doesn't need to be a full on respirator, but trust me, you want to be breathing some form of pre filtered air.

As someone who once worked extensively in a textile factory, I will tell you this:  Something as innocuous as a cotton fiber can kill you.  It usually just takes a few years for the fibers to do you in...  Think lung diseases much like asbestosis, where the fibers are encapsulated by the lung tissue, and the lungs simply become more and more clogged, less and less capable each day.  Dusts, even if they aren't 'toxic', accumulate and kill your ass.  As a result, the factory I worked in spent BIG money on some air filters the size of school busses, and filtered every single cubic foot of air every thirty seconds, and this was in a half million square foot factory.  Dusts will kill you.

For most of these uses I find the typical paper/fiber mask an incredibly inefficient tool.  As an asthma sufferer, breathing can already be an issue.  Regular hardware store "covers the mouth and nose" with two small side filters and the exhalation valve is a HUGE advantage, especially if the work is physical.

Again, sorry to be slightly off topic.  The above masks won't do shit for gases.  But a LOT of hazards we deal with are particulate.  And particulate filters are a life saver.
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 10:26:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Chemical cartridges rely on "active ingredients" so do have a shelf life. 10 years is the longest I have seen. Masks should probably be replaced somewhere between 10 and 20 years depending on their materials.
View Quote


So, then.

If I have some old NATO or Israeli NBC filters will they still be good against fallout dust?

And is it true that they turn toxic after 10yrs?

Another question:

Who makes a full face dust mask that takes filters that don't cost $50 each?

Link Posted: 10/22/2016 10:35:14 AM EDT
[#11]
A HUGE factor one should consider is whether the filter will keep out ammonia-based agents. Especially if you live in the proximity of an anhydrous ammonia plant, or work in an area that work with or stores large quantities.

There are plenty of videos of people attempting to get through or conduct a rescue in the stuff without respiratory protection, and they go down FAST.

Military C2 and C2A1 filters do not provide sufficient ammonia-based agent protection. When I lived more rural, with many surrounding farms, I specifically went out to purchase a special CBRN filter that would provide ammonia protection.

Quoted:
Chemical cartridges rely on "active ingredients" so do have a shelf life. 10 years is the longest I have seen. Masks should probably be replaced somewhere between 10 and 20 years depending on their materials.
View Quote


So, then.

If I have some old NATO or Israeli NBC filters will they still be good against fallout dust?

And is it true that they turn toxic after 10yrs?

Another question:

Who makes a full face dust mask that takes filters that don't cost $50 each?

View Quote


Older filters may have potential chromium toxicity issues as they age. This may affect you in the long run, but I'm not going to worry about it if my choice is between potential long term health issues, or immediately sucking on some gas or fallout and dying a lot sooner. C2A1 filters do not have this issue.

As far as expiration, it's like anything else, say a ballistic vest. "Replace after X years". Liability, contract renewal, many factors involved other than an actual effected end-use date. I'm not going to hesitate to use an "expired" filter that's been hermetically sealed.

Even older filters that are expired or used up still have the ability to filter out particulate (such as smoke or fallout), so long as the filter membrane itself isn't compromised or clogged.

Don't discount surplus military masks. Inspect it, maintain it, and make sure it keeps a seal. If it seals, it will work so long as the filter element is doing its job. It's your money of course, and you can opt to spend 10 times or more on a new, commercially available respirator, if it gives you piece of mind.
Link Posted: 10/23/2016 6:55:43 AM EDT
[#12]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Slightly off topic here.... I know earlier posters are talking gases.  In my case I definitely know filters have a place in SHTF gear.  I can easily think of several applications.





Dust.  Neighbor was state topper, and spent a fair bit of time in NYC after 9/11.  He is currently medically incapacitated:  Exposure to all the various dusts trashed his lungs.  Check any earthquake news reel....  The survivors are digging thru rubble looking for the trapped, and they are all coated in dusts....





On site home use.  You'll only have to clean a chicken coop, or try to hand winnow grains once to know that you really need a particulate mask.  Doesn't need to be a full on respirator, but trust me, you want to be breathing some form of pre filtered air.





As someone who once worked extensively in a textile factory, I will tell you this:  Something as innocuous as a cotton fiber can kill you.  It usually just takes a few years for the fibers to do you in...  Think lung diseases much like asbestosis, where the fibers are encapsulated by the lung tissue, and the lungs simply become more and more clogged, less and less capable each day.  Dusts, even if they aren't 'toxic', accumulate and kill your ass.  As a result, the factory I worked in spent BIG money on some air filters the size of school busses, and filtered every single cubic foot of air every thirty seconds, and this was in a half million square foot factory.  Dusts will kill you.





For most of these uses I find the typical paper/fiber mask an incredibly inefficient tool.  As an asthma sufferer, breathing can already be an issue.  Regular hardware store "covers the mouth and nose" with two small side filters and the exhalation valve is a HUGE advantage, especially if the work is physical.





Again, sorry to be slightly off topic.  The above masks won't do shit for gases.  But a LOT of hazards we deal with are particulate.  And particulate filters are a life saver.
View Quote



I got one of these (actually two, one for me one for the wife).


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007JZ1LG6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1





You can get chemical filters for them:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009POHLRC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1





But, as you say, often there is particulate matter as well. A fire at a chemical plant will have chemicals AND soot and other particulate matter.  That will be stopped by the chemical filter, BUT will also plug up the filter very fast.  SO, you can get a prefilter:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002ABO14I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013Z0TV6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1





Which can be used to filter out the particulate matter. The pre-filters are cheap, and can be switched out as needed.





 
Link Posted: 10/23/2016 9:33:17 AM EDT
[#13]
What about masks for children?  Are the small sizes suitable for children say 5 years old?  Options for infants?  I remember seeing those infant gas masks from WWII.
Link Posted: 10/23/2016 5:02:28 PM EDT
[#14]
I have a full face respirator with extra filters.
Link Posted: 10/23/2016 8:13:49 PM EDT
[#15]
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