What would be the better option to own today?

Lever action rifle (Marlin 336 or Winchester 94) or an SKS rifle (Norinco, Yugoslavian, etc.)

Lever action pros

1. Ammo plentiful and inexpensive
2. Wide circulation (so, losts of spare parts, sources for ammo, etc.)
3. Culturally acceptable (Fudd gun)
4. Not on any ban list anywhere (probably won't be for a long time).
5. Reloading components widely available.
6. Wide array of accessories (fire-sights, recoil pads, scope mounts, etc.)
7. Proven design.
8. Excellent hunting rifle for woods, mid-range hunting.
9. Easy to mount a scope on most options.

Lever action cons

1. Limited ammo capacity.
2. Limited range
3. Manual loading.
4. Slow to reload and fire.
5. Not a precise firearm.


SKS pros

1. Semi-automatic rifle
2. Simple, proven design.
3. Ammo inexpensive
4. Ammo available in FMJ, HP & SP.
5. Stripper clips available for faster loading.
6. Magazines available
7. Bayonet available on most.
8. Not banned in most states
9. Acceptable accuracy.

SKS cons

1. Banned in some states, probably would be banned due to being semi-automatic with bayonet.
2. Loading can be awkward, but faster with practice.
3. Limited to 10 rounds with fixed box magazine.
4. Most ammo available not reloadable.
5. Scary looking rifle to non-shooters.
6. Not a precise firearm.
7. Difficult to mount a scope on.


If you bought today for long term use, what would you buy and why?

Tried and true answer--Get both

Not trying to be a wise ass but serious answer . My thoughts are you never know what use you might want to put the rifle to in the future , availability of ammo could change
laws could change and so forth.

With two quite different rifles available you can pick and choose what will work better in mast any future situation .

Both types are also fun to play with , I wouldn't want to be without either

I'd opt lever gun, specifically a Win 94 with a Williams Fool Proof Receiver sight, and a cheap butt stock shell holder cuff.

The actual magazine capacity difference isn't all that much greater for the SKS.  The advantage of the lever gun is you can readily and readily 'top up' the magazine without going empty.  That cannot be readily done with an SKS.

Limited range?  Um, I dare say the old 30-30 has the same range.  Yes, it does drop.  But with a decent sight in, the 30-30 is fully practical out to ranges exceeding 200 yards.  Power wise, the 30-30 also has an edge.  And 30-30 ammo actually expands and gives very nice performance.  I know 30-30 is no powerhouse, but all 30-30 bullets are designed and manufactured specifically for the velocity and impact speeds of the 30-30 cartridge.  Those flat nosed and round noses 150's and 170's open fast and hard.  In contrast, a lot of the so called soft point and hollow point imported 762x39 ammo is fairly unreliable with regards to expansion.  Sometimes it does.  Often it doesn't.

Accuracy? A marlin 336 or Win 94 will shoot as well as any SKS, or better, provided its equipped with correct sights...

Example:  True story.  My Marlin 1894 with factory sights would shoot 4-6" at 100 yards off a bench.  Removed factory sights, installed williams fool proof and a fire sight front.  Same day, ska rifle, same ammo, just a different set of sights and groups went to about 1.5" at 100 yards.

Things have changed somewhat, but lever guns have an advantage:  There are probably5 million of them in closets around the country.  Which means you can still find them for $200 at garage and estate sales.

I am a die hard JM Marlin fan.  But for survival purposes, I prefer the winchester.  Even  when shot dry (mag empty) I can get one back into the game in a really big hurry simply by dropping a shell into the action and closing the lever.  Much faster to reload.


If you do reload, consider a marlin 1894 in 357.  It does have range limitations (about 125 yards as an effective deer gun), but with judicious reloading, you can easily push a 158 grain JSP to an honest 1900 FPS in a very short, ultra handy little carbine that holds 9-10 rounds.

Back when you could get an SKS for $90, I would say SKS. Now that they bring so much, they are nothing special at all. I had one that I got a 30 round detachable mag for, but I sold it since I could only find the 1 mag that was reliable (and detachable).


As far levers as widespread and cheap, not around here. An old beat up 30/30 brings $150 any day of the week, as long as it goes boom.




I would say AR15


 

I've heard of lever guns being promoted as being "less dangerous looking" and that being a "plus" for SHTF use.

REALLY?

To the poo poos or anyone that might be looking to take your weapon, it doesn't matter if it's an AK or a lever gun.

Your not "getting through a checkpoint" with a lever gun versus an AR, or any of this sort of silly ideas.

No one is getting a pass cause their firearm doesn't look as scary.

Neither would be my choice, but if I had to choose between those two, I would pick the sks. Rugged and reliable are my priorities. Semiauto is a big plus to me.

I've never shot a marlin 336 but have several sks, how would you guys who own both compare the trigger.

With the abundance of inexpensive AR15's on the market it is the better choice. The only con is the fact it isn't a fudd gun and might be banned somewhere(Going by your list).
If I had to pick between the two (Lever or SKS) I'd take a non tapco'd SKS. Better ammo availability and simplistic design. More than accurate enough for hunting most medium/large game in the US. Plenty of hunting ammo choices abound also.

I have heard that there are some methods to smooth up the sks trigger but most any I have checked are long , crunchy and none too light . Standard fare on many military guns and more or less part of the design .

Most 336s and 94s are fairly decent and I have a couple that are just down right great. No expert but I would think most any gunsmith could tune the Marlin or Winchester

Both Jm Marlins and 94s are creaping up in price but they are out there .

If you are looking at long range SHTF I give the edge to a 94s as they are more cast bullet friendly . The "micro-groove" in the marlin usually is very accurate with jacketed bullets but it is a chore to get good results from cast .

Agreed.

Why isn't an AR an option?

You think they are going to let a free people own Ar15's forever? I have AR15's, just looking at 2nd and 3rd levels.

Gotcha

Unfortunately I think if there is a ban they will be smarter about it this time. Not to mention I won't be giving up any of my guns, or hiding them. We all have things we won't stand for. I don't know what exactly I'll do if that time comes, but i do know what I won't do.

 
I own a 1978 vintage Marlin 336 and a Chicom SKS that I bought in 1988. The SKS trigger is garbage in comparison to the Marlin's. It's heavy, creepy, and inconsistent. The Marlin doesn't have a match grade trigger but it doesn't have much creep and is consistent.


I love leverguns but I don't put too much stock in the argument that a Fudd gun is less distressing to sheeple than a semiauto. They won't know the difference between an SKS or a Marlin 336 or Winchester 94. All they're going to see is a man with a gun.

In the off chance AR are banned, and you choose to comply with said ban, I think it's safe to say that SKS will be subject
to the same ban, I just can't imagine they're going to let things through the cracks like that.

Given that, I'd fall back to the lever, but for me personally, if bans are the worry, I'd just to to bolt action, as it'll be the
last to go, perhaps with the exception of break-action shottys.

If things go that far, though, we're in a world of hurt well past choosing what gun to have. At that level you're probably
looking at ammo being controlled and shooting anything being criminal, in which case some low-profile breakdown 22
with quiet ammo would be my actual fallback.

I meant that leverguns have never been the subject of bans by politicians..yet...because they lack "scary" features (bayonet lug, flash hider, etc.)

I do not care that large groups of people in this country wet their pants at the sight of a black rifle.

Since you are worried about ownership of an AR post-ban, I would go 80% AR build

Seriously though, if you want an excuse to buy a non-AR fun gun, just go and get one. The idea that the AR and all semi-auto would be banned such as the Australia ban, it won't happen in this country without war, in which what rifle you have is a moot point.


Unless you live in Kalifornistan or some such libtard hell hole, then your SHTF priority should be to move to a free(er) state NOW.

I love levers and I'd go with the SKS. But in actuality, I think the FN-49 is the better rifle.

+1.

Assembling an AR doesn't cost much more than a 336 or an SKS in comparable condition goes for nowadays - and when you're done, you've got a much more versatile rifle:

1. Scads of different uppers available, in a wide variety of calibers - none of which requires a FFL to purchase.
2. 80 percent lowers!
3. Tremendous assortment of accessories available.

which one will last longer in neglect?

 

Layers....

Ak

Pre75 94.

FR8

7.92 mausers

Mosin

Red Ryder


The 30/30 in 150 sp is great .least in my 94. And I'd take one over a sks. But..an old one.

Mine doesn't have safetyss per say..top eject...so fast to load and top off. Light and well balanced.

I'd rather have my AK..but for this thread my 94' beats the sks. I've owned both.

If I could only pick one or the other, my preference is the SKS over the lever action for survival.

There are a huge variety of aftermarket add-ons for mounting optics and I replaced the 10rd mag with the integral 20rd police mag.  None of the aftermarket mag options have ever been really reliable but this 20rd mag operates without problem.



The ammo is everywhere. After 5.56 and .308, 7.62x39 is the most prevalent rifle round in the US (according to 2013 sales stats).

7.62x39mm ammo is much cheaper than .30-30 or any other round except .22LR.

I can't find $150 lever action rifles and all the new ones are about twice the price of a new SKS except maybe for a Yugo with all matching serial numbers.

The SKS is a combat rifle, it's tough, reliable, pretty much impervious to the elements, etc.  Lever actions are susceptible to dirt and grit getting inside the action and trigger mechanism.

Yeah, the trigger pull is crap but lever actions aren't a whole lot better plus you have the extra action of having to work the lever.  The semiauto is a lot faster.

Loading with stripper clips is a pain in the ass but it's a lot faster than thumbing in rounds one at a time.  Plus, you carry your ammo on stripper clips vice loose in a pocket or in single round slots on a carrier.

You can always fudd-erize an SKS to some extent.

I'd go lever.  First, I'm not into standing up and chut'n it out.  I'd flee first. Second, if there are any women in the house, they already know how to use the lever if they saw any cowboy movie.  Third, I'm more into harvesting game.  Fourth, I'm in bear/cat country and I prefer a 45-70 for Yogi & Kitty.

Oh man, too true.  You need to tailor your needs to your environment!  I would definitely take a lever action in .45-70 over an SKS if there was a chance I'd run into a bear or mountain lion...not much chance of that on the east coast!

The SKS...

Lever actions had trouble winning international military acceptance because they were difficult to fire & reload from prone due to the lever action, and concerns that if the magazine tube were to be dented or damaged, you would have a single shot weapon. Not sure how much of a danger that is, but that was the logic when lever actions were top tech.

Depends on the location and situation.

IMO AR-7 if dangerous animals and aggressive bipeds aren't a concern. Obviously if they are, you're going to want more than a .22LR can offer.

I have issues with today's prices on good lever guns, marlin and winchester tend to bring high prices with the marlin being before remington got ahold of em.  Now they may be doing better, but it has folks worried if buying used and what not.  



I have issues with today's prices on sks rifles as well.



If you find one at yesterday's prices, sure buy it.



I like the sks because it is dead nuts reliable.  If we are talking having something at the hunting cabin, lever gun works fine.  If you pick a lever gun do some searches on cowboy action shooters and learn what they do to make them more reliable as well as longer lasting.



Now I can easily see where a gun ban might hit on the sks just because it is a semi-auto and a lever gun might slide through a stage or two of gun bans.



So if wondering about that, do some searches.



I think in california a garand is a heck of a choice for a self defense rifle.  You have a military rifle and yeah it only uses 8 rd clips and can't be readily topped off that I know of, but dang if I would not be ok with 8 rds of 30-06.



To some extent I agree with the concept that a lever gun in various calibers might make a ton of sense for some areas, as mentioned the 45-70 can be a round that can do all sorts of things.  Research reloading it, from some folks who load 3 lead balls to folks making so-so buckshot loads to really low powered loads to full power loads, it is a heck of a round but you better know what round you are shoooting and how it shoots if messing with all of that.



I also agree on changing sites to what works best for you.  I like the marlins because they tend to be already drilled for a scope and while I don't just stick a scope on em, I do try to order a better set of ghost ring sites, works better for me, for it.  Got a set I need to install on a marlin 30-30 I got and it is a dreaded early remington version even.  It functions but I have not shot it enough to say what I think of it.



In some states a suppressor is legal and I rather like the idea of a lever gun with a suppressor, but I am currently hung up on the paperwork and tax so no I do not have one.



I personally think any coming gun bans or other issues are going to try to knock out all sorts of stuff.  Didn't the safe act make ruger 10-22s illegal?  



For the price around here for a pre remington marlin or a good sks you are not terribly far from building a cheap ar rifle.  I understand the ban filter for this thread but I figure they will ban it all.



Down to banning muzzle loaders and single shot shotguns.



Except for police and military of course.



I would be a lot more concerned about a handgun and limitations on them for ccw and what not.

I have both....

 
Tube Mag fed rifles saw use in combat and served for a very long time.


Portuguese Kropatschek Rifle




French Lebel




On top of that, there are lever action designs that are not tube fed. Winchester 1895, Savage 99, Browning BLR, Winchester 88, etc....


The Winchester 1895 saw plenty of action on the Eastern Front in WWI and later saw service in the Russian Revolution and Civil War, the Spanish Civil War, and the Winter War.

I had a AR-7... it was junk.

 

 
The Garand can be modified to be topped off.


 



It allows a Enbloc clip to stay in the rifle. You can top it off like a SKS. That plus an adjustable gas plug and the Garand is good to go.

When?
What constitutes junk in your opinion?

I considered the same thing last year.  I intended to buy whichever was cheapest at local pawn shops but never found a good deal.  However if I did it again I'd look at the difference in weight.  According to my googlefu a Winchester 94 is 2 lbs 4 ozs lighter than a Chinese SKS.  You'll carry it more than anything and less weight means you can carry more of something else.

I sold mine last year and had it for at least five to seven years. It was a Henry made rifle. It was junk for a number of reasons.

1. Couldn't go through one magazine without jamming.

2. Accuracy was shit.

3. The plastic mold around the barrel nut was deformed.

4. Shitty sights.

5. Bulky for what it is.



A pre buyout Marlin Papoose is a much better rifle.

Haha, quite right. I guess the only thing I could say to support my point is that those magazine tube fed weapons had their mag tubes protected from damage by the stock, where as the classic lever actions do not. Don't take my post as smack talking a the lever action, just throwing a possible con out there.

 
Winchester did make a number of "muskets" for government sales.




They were full stocked models like the 1886.

Interesting question, just for the sake of speculating. With careful assembly, you can build a decent AR for around $500, but that's not the question here.

To me, the answer is influenced more by politics and what is legal and available, and then the type of use: protect your home and family versus bug out into the mountains and sleep in the mud as if you were in the movie Red Dawn.

If semi autos are allowed, the SKS wins in my book. The action is military tough and reliable as it's top benefits. Sights are only marginal, but there are some moderately successful aftermarket ways to put a scope or at least a red dot on one. The SKS will function under really poor conditions and hard use.

If semi autos are off the table, a lever action is still a solid performer. Not quite as rugged as an SKS, but far more suitable for hunting and similar limited use. The Marlin will also easily take optics, which is a big plus to get the most out of your shots (iron sights function, but optics make things a lot easier!) The lever might be more accurate too. I personally like my lever guns more than my SKS as an appealing and quality item I enjoy owning. If you need fewer shots, but better placement, the lever is fine. If you need volume and bullet proof rugged-ness, then SKS. For over-all cost and bang-for-the-buck, I'd still just get a used 12 gauge pump shotgun. Self defense is not combat, the shotgun still will protect you from anything within modest range in a simple and reliable package.

It's going to be hard to beat an older 500, 590 or 870. I prefer the Mossbergs.
I'd choose an SKS first. I love a level, but the SKS is a better all-rounder. It will cover defense as well as game getting.
The levers have the benefit of better ammunition and 30-30 has a slight edge over the SKS in that regards. A lever in 357mag would be great. Less range, but more ammo on board and you can have a handgun in the same caliber. I don't think there's anything in the South East you can't hunt with a 357 carbine (within range).
The ban would be a bother, but it would probably be go time before a ban like that gets into place. I think they are going to go after detachable magazines and ammo first, like they have in just about every country where bans are in place.
My vote is still for a Mossberg 500 - old timey wood stock, decent sling, GRS and a white light, if you are so inclined. I prefer clean lines on my shotties. I just added a rail to my oldest 500 - going to slap a RDS of some sort on it and hunt with it this year.

Nailed it!

I tried the sks route and did like it. I had tapco 20 round mags and there nice for the first 20 rounds.... after that good luck getting a second mag in under stress (tried while run n gunning) I then did a test. I did a string of 40 rounds with 2 20's and the stock 10 rounder with strippers. I was faster to put 40 aimed  rounds on target with the stock mag with strippers than with the tapco's. after I built a 300 blackout the sks went bye bye.

I also had a 357 lever and liked it very much, it now resides with my mom as they only have 38's and 357 handguns and no rifle so it fits the bill well for them. I stumbled across a 35 remington lever action that i'm going to chop and shorten that will serve dual purposes a rifle to bring my kids up on and likely there first deer riifle. it can be loaded with 38/357 bullets for lite low noise rounds on up to just shy of .358 winchester performance (marlin 336 can handle greater pressures than the sammi specs and lvr powder is also the game changer for this cartridge)

and as far as shtf is concerned in a pinch 35 rem brass can be formed from .308/30-06 family of cartridges, and bullets can be scavenged from 38/357 and 9mm if need be(although they may need to be paper patched) same goes for powder you could use pistol powder on up to medium rifle powder and black powder if need be. this and my 45 colt blackhawk will fill the role of extended shtf if for some reason I deplete all of my reserves.

10/22 are still good to go, as long as you don't have an AR style looking stock on it...  

If a federal ban is on the horizon I bet they take aim at as many semi auto, magazine accepting rifles as possible, as they did in NY.

My vote goes for a lever action as long as it doesn't break the bank.  Bolt action to.

Between those 2 I'd probably go with the SKS. Both are decent hunting rifles, but the SKS would be a better defensive rifle. I'd rather have an AR15 though and cheap ARs aren't much more money.

As a guy who just assembled a light weight AR for under $500 minus sights, I would go that route all day and twice on Sunday.

Barring that I would go lever action. 30/30 or 357.

If I knew I were going into a fight and had to only choose from an SKS and my favorite levergun, it would honestly be close. The SKS would almost certainly win out, but it would be closer than it probably would be for a lot of people.


Agree if we're talking about an all-around gun, and not a combat-specific gun; especially on the .357 option. I have a couple SKS's & like them for what they are, but imo a levergun in .357 is a very capable gun, able to do a lot more than most people realize. Power-wise it's fine for defensive use out to as far as I'm going to shoot a levergun, and it's a whole lot smaller, lighter, and compact than an SKS. With full-house loads my little 16" .357 puts out more power than most .44 magnum handgun loads do, yet is as small & light as a 10-22 rimfire. So it's a lot handier to carry around and actually have with you than a lot of long guns are.

The carbine-length barrel does nearly shocking things for magnum-handgun calibers, yet you can still run light loads (down to .38 spl cowboy mouse-fart loads) for hunting small stuff if need be, or for ease of use by non-shooters. If someone were to come out with a .357 magnum carbine that was either semiauto or box-fed, it would serve imo for 95% of the needs of most non-military users. If someone were to come out with a .357 magnum carbine that was both semiauto AND box-fed, I'd frankly rather have it in a fight than an SKS, an M1 carbine, a Garand, or a number of other 'combat' guns. Frankly, I'd be tempted to give up my .300 blackout AR in favor of it, simply because in my specific area, we just don't get shots on deer out past 70-80 yards or so.

The OP indicated which (lever-action or SKS) would be a better survival rifle, vs. a battle rifle. There's a difference of course.

While the SKS is a very reliable rifle the overwhelming majority of available 7.62x39 is berdan primed. While berdan is reloadable it's a lot more difficult than boxer primed brass. While there is available boxer primed 7.62x39 ammo in a survival situation one would have to stock up on that and in soft-point bullets that's suitable for the range of survival needs. Boxer 7.62x39 soft-point ammo is more expensive than more commonly available FMJ. Also, being a semi-auto an SKS is going to scatter ejected brass more vigorously than a lever-action.

Any good-quality lever action rifle is also very reliable. Reloading rimmed lever-action ammo is very easy with a classic Lee Loader kit, which would be useful in a survival situation, and all of it is boxer primed. The more common lever action cartridges, i.e. 357, .44 mag, 30/30 are readily available and you can get Lee Loader kits whereas . They can handle anything short of the largest North American carnivores and game with a proper load and the shooter doing his/her job.

Other lever action cartridges like the 35 Rem, 45/70, etc. are less commonly available for ammo and/or bullet size, or a bit overkill depending commonly available game in ones AOPS. So that really leaves the 357 and 44 mags and 30/30 as the more logical lever-action cartridges for a survival situation. Plus the former two are common revolver cartridges for firearm ammo compatibility.

While Lee "may" have made a classic Lee Loader in 7.62x39 I can't find a record of that and they don't list them now, but one could use conventional dies and a Lee hand press which is much heavier and larger than the classic loader that is commonly available in .357, 44 mag and 30/30.

Also 7.62x39 takes the odd .311 bullet diameter vs. the commonly available .308 that a 30/30 uses. So in a survival situation one could utilize just about any .308 bullet that one would come across.

In comparing the three commonly available lever-action cartridges the .357 appears to be more versatile since it cane be used in a rifle and pistol, requires less components to reload, and can handle the majority of game available in North America when properly loaded and used. Plus one can use 38 Special ammo that one would come across.

So IMO I'd go with a quality .357 lever-action rifle, married up with a quality .357 revolver with a Classic Lee Loader, for maximum versatility as a "survival" lever-action.  If you want something with more power then go with a 44 mag rifle/pistol combination or a 30/30, or the other larger cartridges.

My .02

To add to this discussion I thought I'd engage in a little shameless self-promotion and throw out a couple links to my blog:

Old School Shooting and Reloading. In this post I take the self sufficiency aspect a bit further and consider handloading using black powder and cast bullets.


Lever Action Carbines for Defense. This one discusses more modern options with an emphasis on carbines in .357, .44 Magnum, and .45 Colt.

Nice articles.

The only issues I have with reloading with blackpowder in a "survival" situation is the questionable availability of BP, and its vulnerability to inclement weather when in storage.

While having the knowledge to use BP in whatever pistol cartridge you're using is good, IMO its a lot easier to pack a can+ of smokeless powder for a modern pistol cartridge. Plus you get much better performance.

My .02

Buddy of mine's wife has a Marlin in .357 magnum.  I would not want to be in a shootout with her inside one hundred yards.  She is very proficient with it.  


It'd defend the house or kill a deer very handily.

Indeed on the last point.  In the 80's you may have been viewed as a "normal" outdoors person with a .30-30.   These days the media has had more success bending the minds of the public and the youth that all guns are bad you racist homophobic cretins.


To me it's a choice between a better trigger (only average) with the lever gun or the chrome chamber and bore of the SKS.  Next to an unchromed SKS, I'd pick the lever first.