Here's what I would do in your spot. Design the house you want. Design it smart.

For instance. The fewer planes on your roof, the least labor, the least chance of leaks and the easiest water collection. One story houses are far more durable and the second floor costs 3 times in labor what a single floor does. Have a water room that has all bathrooms and the kitchens on the other side of that wall the water room is in. That way, everything that has to do with water is in one place for repairs and you save tons on piping because the runs are so short.

I have 30 yrs of thinking this through and 15 yrs of doing construction.

In your designing phase, design such that you can build part of it as an efficiency apartment. Build the rest as you have time and money.



If you do it like this, you never have to waste a penny on something temporary. You will have to get septic and utilities in first, but again, you aren't doing it twice.

I've been researching inexpensive, efficient, and durable home building for the last 15 yrs I've been in residential construction. I have seen some very common reactions in people when they build their home. One is that they always build too much living space and not enough storage space. The ways to save money building a house are legion. Contact me if you would like.

as to your questions.

1. i was forced to sell the larger piece of land, due to losing approx 25% of my income......  also, when i bought it, i was single and not even dating. it was located a hour from where i was living, but that was not a issue, as i was single and had few ties locally, and was freshly divorced.  i met and began dating a great woman, and over the next couple of years, i realized several things.

A. she would not want to move to that land, because her commute to work would go from 15 minutes to about a hour and 15 minutes.... plus her kids and grandkids lived right down the road from her.

B. owning land 1;15 minutes away, made it very difficult for me to do much work to it..... it was a long drive, and it was like a safari getting to it... i had to haul everything with me.... and as iv said before, i do have medical issues... i might get a hour of work done and have to go home, etc.  ( the new land is 2 miles away, and easy for me to work on every day.... and its only 3 miles from her elderly fathers farm.... which we are starting to have to help him manage.

in short.... i was already thinking about selling the land... BEFORE, the 25% loss of income forced me to sell it.  i got a good price for it, and after paying off the balance, and subtracting the improvements, i actually ended up MAKING money on the land sell..... i was UP approx $30k..... i spent $10,000 on old divorce bills... and used the other $20k as down payment for the new land.

2. yes, i recently bought several things.

a. a 2001 ford taurus... for better gas mileage... and working ac... i needed a reliable vehicle for longer trips as i have to go to marion illinois for va visits approx every 3 months, and its a 3 hour drive one way... ( 6 hour round trip).... the car was $1800.00   . it was also to help me get established at the local bank. ill have car paid off on month 13... so i get credit for the loan, as i understand you need to have 12 months of payments for it to count or something.

b. yes, i bought a larger tractor.... a 2014, kubota L3901, 38hp with loader. with 39 hours on it.  for $17.500. ( basically 25% off as a new one is $24.500... this one was still new as it only had 29 hours. i needed it, because the smaller tractor is basically a lawn mower, and unable to do a lot of the work i need done..... land work on new land.... everything from brush piles, to moving dirt, and more... also, i mentioned helping the gf's elderly dad.... we needed a tractor that could more large bales of hay, mine would not do it, and his is a antique, ( a dangerous one at that)..... i already used this tractor to stock his barn with round bales.... and to remove a dead cow carcass, and bury it with the loader. it also, has gone a long way towards getting me established with this bank...

i could argue with you guys over my plans all day.... but im not going to. i appreciate the help, and ideas, and SOME of the criticism, but theres a limit...  there are some things i cant help, and the plan is what it is...  yes, i COULD stay in my rental.... and wait for the land to be paid off..... and id blow approx $28,000,00 waiting for that to happen.... which is a huge waste in my mind.  

we have decided to do the following.

1. she buys the camper.... we are planning to spend approx $8.000.00 for a decent one. and ill pay the payments on it. it will stay parked at her dads, where i / we, will be living in it, until i can get the driveway in acceptable shape for heavy use... plus i can help him with his cows and land.

2. after winter....march / april, i will have the road fixed..... i will also have enough money for approx 50% of the utility cost...... i will borrow the other 50% and install utilities, and we will move onto the land, and it will be our home.... during that time i can prep the land and plan for a house.... after the land if paid off, i will be in a very good position to build a house.... the car will be paid off.... the tractor will be paid off... and the land will be paid off... and my credit will be in MUCH better shape by then.

if you guys actually KNEW my life, you would understand how hard the last 3-5 years have been on me.... there has been shit loads of ptsd issues... a miserable marraige.... seviere/ almost crippling medical condition diagnosis, a miserable divorce.....shit loads of ptsd..... financial issues, ( basically approx $50k in divorce bills, while she kept everything) ... kid drama, attempted suicide, shit, too much crap to even go into, and even my friends dont know it all.  hell, a year before i bought that 123 acres, i was able to pay my bills... but only had $200 for the entire month for gas, food, and things like that.. my daughter and i were eating ramen for approx 3 months, and we had two army cots and two camping chairs as our furniture...

i have finally found someone who is great for me... and who has helped me get my life repaired, get me emotionally functional for the first time in years...and honestly get me on my feet, physically, and emotionally, and financially.... the last year i spend money on toys, yes... but i also spent approx $15,000 paying off my last divorce bills... i was debt free from old baggage a few months ago, and my credit is a HELL of a lot better, and finally recovering from that divorce. im FINALLY, emotionally. we have had serious talks about getting married, and finances and fears, and iv already decided, agreed, and promised that i wont be buying ANYTHING, thats not directly related to getting moved onto our land, utilities, or savings.... tools, a generator, a implement, gravel, dirt, lumber, metal carports, a conex..... yes, yes, yes..... guns, atv's, and shit like that.... no, no, no. there will be NO more expensive purchases, by either of us, thats not critical..... until we get a house built.  extra land payments, or tractor payments, or camper payments are all probable...  HOWEVER.... savings, WILL be # 1.... for future big projects / down payments....but also for emergencies, etc.. we will not be losing this land for any reason.... if i had to i could sell a bunch of stuff and pay it off now if i absolutely had to..  

i agree its not the best decision to put utilities on land thats not in my name..... but IMHO its not too much different than what most people do anyway. you get a bank loan to build a house, and part of that loan us utilities.... and you dont own shit as long as you own the bank.... miss 3 payments and they can forclose on you...   i have a loan, like anyone else, but its not a huge one.. ( approx $15k left).... im dumping renting, to save that rental money, and yes, part of it will go to extra land payments.  my goal is to have car, tractor, and land paid off in 2.5 years.....  then be talking to the bank about a construction loan of some kind...  getting my ass out of this rental will do more for me than you guys understand.  it will get me on my land where im the master of my ship... and feel like im REALLY moving towards my future, even if its a bit different than most people do.

i appriciate the advice.... the technical help, the personal stories, and support..... but you can keep the criticism to a minimum, as im not your best friend, or brother,  im here for help, suggestions, and ideas, and some support..... if i wanted to be criticized i could call my ex wife up, and get that.

my life has been stuck in a rut, and iv had a really hard time getting it moving... but im FINALLY to the point where its taking off, and in all good ways.  

Contrary to popular belief, renting is not always a waste of money. I know that seems to go against what a lot of people think, but it isn't always a bad idea. I suspect that you will spend more on the pole barn idea than you want and it will cost you in the long run as opposed to staying where you are, paying off the land sooner and then building the house you plan to build eventually. Concentrate your efforts on that.

Get sewer/septic first and then electrical and gas, if you are on the grid.  You may need to permit these things.

Buck,  

You are older than I figured and no, I didn''t recall your health issues.  I don't have the Deej recall ability.  

I always try to play it safe, it makes things take much longer to happen sometimes.  Between that and me being a natural procrastinator.  You have drive, thoughts, and plans.  That's great.  I just don't want to see you get over extended.  Like I said, I watch out for risk.  Like the Dave Ramsey line, I can only answer questions in a manner of what would I do in that situation because I am me.  

I'll just say, be cautious and try to keep your stress levels low, PTSD or no PTSD.  Life is better without the headaches and worries.  Taking the safer route may take longer but you'll get there.  Just remember focus blows hit harder and cut deeper.  The difference between hitting a stump with a sledge hammer and hitting a stump with a sledge hammer blow to a wedge.  The force is the same but the focus is concentrated.  Write your plan down and stick to it, biting off pieces as you can.

Wishing you smooth sailing.


ETA- banking the money/paying off debts while you're living at the FIL's farm sounds like a workable method.   At least that way you've got your utilities while your in the camper covered without the fresh outlay.  Additionally helping him out sounds good too.


hell with a borrowed or rented back hoe the septics aren't that big of a deal if you have an approved plan.   Costs are the machine, diesel, time, tank, distribution box and associated leach field piping and sand fill.  Labor is huge, but you have your time.   paying someone else to do it is expensive.

basic plan at the moment is this.

1. buy camper.... and move onto her dads land / backyard.. and live there until next spring, ( ill end up putting all my stuff into storage,) except a few thing i will keep in camper.  
2. next spring....around may,  move to the property around may... after utilities are installed...
3. then, save money, and pay off land,.... after land is paid off start seriously looking into house construction loan. ( most likely a pole barn house)

we will.... i will basically be installing full utilities right about the time the camper is moved there.  

we found a pretty nice ( looks EXCELLENT) camper, and going to check it out tonight. its selling for $2000 under bluebook.... guy wants $8000.00 for it. it sleeps 8 people i think... which works well for us, as we can turn those extra bunk beds into a closet/ closets for more storage.

we will store the camper at her dads, thru the winter months.... this gives us time to get some things worked out.... and maybe even married.... to be ready to start moving in the spring.

Why not some sort of cheap mobile HOME rather than a camper?

The depreciation is probably going to be eye opening. What are the hookups going to cost?

For the $8000 ADDITIONAL debt for the camper, PLUS the additional expenses...

Next you'll be trying to justify a NEW genny you've been jonsing for a while, and all sorts of other toys to go with the camper and the cost won't be $8000 ---more likely $20,000 when you're done.

With NOTHING to show toward your claimed objectives.

You could do other alternative things, for likely less. Or is the camper needed to PLAY going camping as you mentioned earlier?


Also, re the tractor, why not a used backhoe for less $$$ [a guy who worked for me who bought ~100 acres and is SENSIBLY developing it, bought a fine Case or JD backhoe last year for less than you paid for a little bigger lawn tractor.

A full sized backhoe is a capable machine that can prep your foundations, move dead cows, dig ditches, dig out tree stumps, lift and move building materials, dig for the utility lines, the water line from the well, the septic system.


I don't get some of your decisions if you are trying to avoid the cost of rent and get a rent free roof over your head.

Using the emotionally driven logic like buying the 123 acres when you had a few hundred dollars and eating raman, hours away, and remembering all the plans you posted that didn't seem possible, it looks like you are repeating the same thing, on a different scale and at a different place.


It looks like a classic case of trying to have your cake --and eat it too...

Before you even have the cake baked.


Why not let your GF live with her dad, you put some sort of 'piano box' living accommodation on your land, haul in water and food, haul out poop, store your stuff at her dad's since he's so close by, save $$$...

Instead of ridiculously wasting it...

And start building, improving, and paying off your property. Instead of trying to think of every way possible to squander $$$ including -now, indebting your GF, with your 'ideas'.


If you had used a good strategy vs. what you have posted about and done all these years, you would likely already be in a house.


Not interested in your rejection of criticism, you asked for 'opinions' in the title of this thread, and when you get some you don't like it.

Sometimes your best friends won't tell you and leave you bumping from one wall to another for a lifetime.

You need to stop playing and get a Seriousness of Purpose.


You're going to get your GF sign the note for the Camper, and you are going to make all the payments on it.

What a formula for failure....

Now you are indebting someone you presumably love, for something that sounds likely fun and is likely not the slightest bit practical --in consideration of your goals and resources--- but VERY practical to waste more $$$ on and play.



YMMV

You might look into "dry stacked Block".  You don't need a mason or mortar and the structure is as strong as traditional block work. No chance of fire, rot, and more secure than a 28 gauge pole barn material.

The block building will be there for ever.

my septic plan is my ex brother in law.. who is a licensed plumber... they installed my last one at cost, and did a great job. $ 5k...... i wont be getting this one at cost.. but perhaps at a discount... as they gave me a discount before when they did my dozer work.


theres a good chance, we might end up living in the camper at her dads soon after buying it.. we have already talked about this...... to help save that rental money, and helping him around the farm...  we can tie it into his utilities, and have our own place, and privacy as his house is pretty small, and offers pretty much zero privacy...

if it goes that way, we might end up living there all winter and 1/2 of the summer... allowing us to save a lot more money to go towards... well, everything... i dont want to finance a dime more than i need to.. .. plus a perk test will work a lot better around september, than it will march / april.

i dont want to get over extended either.. or buried with too much at once.... im trying to plan this in steps, and take my time.... all the way up to building the house.

you guys just dont understand how hard it is for me to be stuck at home so much, and not have projects to do..... living in a rental pretty much keeps you from doing projects.... im not remodeling some other guys house etc..  i really NEED that land, to give me things to do, and freedom, and privacy.... even living in a camper on my land, will make me feel free, and less stressed out.... being a homesteader is very appealing to me... to build EVERYTHING you have, up from nothing, and i cant wait .. i get huge amounts of satisfaction from even my small projects... this is something iv ALWAYS dreamed of doing, i just never had a wife, or family who was the least bit supportive of anything like this. now its just me... and i have full support.

ill move into that camper... put everything into a conex, and buy a couple metal carports, ( probably one for our cars and tractor, and a taller one for the camper, to help protect it from the elements, leaves, branches, leaks etc.... id also do some under pinning to it, to help keep things from freezing in winter.... and i will have everything i need to work on the next steps in the plan.... although the biggest next steps is basically saving money, and paying off the land., and of course not buying expensive shit.... which is fine, as i still need to consider housing, clear a house area, i can tinker with my range, work on food plots, plant trees,

im planning on renting a backhoe from a rental place my gf's relatives own, and clearing a lot of stuff with that. then using the tractor to move dirt and stumps to burn piles after returning the backhoe. ( no need using the backhoe and wasting rental money doing things my tractor can) .. ill just use it for stuff my tractor cant do.



does anyone have any idea what kind of generator would be needed to run a camper ( comfortably) while off grid??  assuming propane fridge, stove, and heat)

"ill move into that camper... put everything into a conex, and buy a couple metal carports, ( probably one for our cars and tractor, and a taller one for the camper, to help protect it from the elements, leaves, branches, leaks etc.... id also do some under pinning to it, to help keep things from freezing in winter.... and i will have everything i need to work on the next steps in the plan.... although the biggest next steps is basically saving money, and paying off the land., and of course not buying expensive shit.... which is fine, as i still need to consider housing, clear a house area, i can tinker with my range, work on food plots, plant trees"



There ya go...

Why not skip all the $$$$$$$$$ stuff, and save money toward YOUR STATED END GAME OBJECTIVE--of a house for a roof over your head

Do you have any idea what it costs to rent or buy a container??

Metal carports  ---WTF???

Generator???

Why not get a long extension cord to plug into your GF's Dad's grid?

Generators are sometimes a necessary evil and MOST OFTEN a [necessary] pain in the ass --that if you use the camper on her Dad's farm, as you've already outlined, there should be no need to waste more $$$ on one.




"you guys just dont understand how hard it is for me to be stuck at home so much, and not have projects to do..... living in a rental pretty much keeps you from doing projects.... im not remodeling some other guys house etc.. i really NEED that land, to give me things to do, and freedom, and privacy.... even living in a camper on my land, will make me feel free, and less stressed out...."


Well, don't we all?????

Put in a large basement.  Finish large basement yourself.  Live in large basement while house is being built.  That's what the poor folks who grew up by me always did.  The middle class bought a trailer.  The rich went the modular home route.

$3500 running runs either the AC OR the microwave, not both at once. It is just big enough to handle the surge requirement from the AC on all 3 campers in the family. After the surge, it handles it just fine.

 

i will be getting quotes for icf, and other types of concrete construction.....   im not ruling out concrete, as its my preferred type of construction. but cost definately comes into it.

thanks !    thats helpful.... i dont think i will be needing one, as i doubt we will do much camping, as in hauling it around..... and we should have full utilities while living in it.. but i definately need / want a generator for when we lose power and such. we do lose power around here for days and weeks at a time.  i figured a 3500 watt was probably the minimum needed.

what are things to look for ( warning signs / bad things / issues) when buying a used camper?


im new to these, but have ideas....

look for discolored ceiling, meaning roof leaks.... soft spots in floor, due to water damage....  obvious physical damage of course, missing appliances, and such.... the guys hooking up the water and electric to the camper so we can at least check it all out. which is a huge relief, as its about the ONLY way to check this stuff..

propane stove.
propane furnace..
ac ( although of course its 50* at the moment, but what can you do? )
water heater..
faucets..... look for leaks under camper while waters connected.
cracked pipes from freezing...
microwave....
lights
flush toilet
shower / tub

anything im missing????

You asked for opinions (note the title of your thread)....it was offered....you didn't like it and for some reason you seem to think we are attacking you.  We aren't.  We are sincerely trying to offer advice to help you get to where you want to be and NOT see you spinning your wheels for the next few years.  I don't think anyone is trying to criticize you....just trying to point out some observations that you ASKED for!  Asking for opinions and then getting mad at people's opinions is pretty silly.  Disagreeing...no worries where....none of us will agree 100%.  

Some of us offered opinions/thoughts and you clearly don't agree.  That's fine.  Not everyone agrees with me 100% of the time.  Doesn't hurt my feelings.  But, sometimes we all need the truth even if it hurts our feelings.  For some reason your feelings got hurt because we didn't support your plan.  Some of us didn't support your plan because we think your plan is a mistake.  I'm not going to support something that I think will hurt you.  If that upsets you, then so be it.   I think you posted this thread wanting us to tell you what you wanted to hear...not really to get opinions of your plan.  

Since you are upset with my opinion, I'll refrain from making any further recommendations or opinions.  I wish you the best of luck.  

This was going to be my suggestion. There are several threads, posts & even a post on Arfcom about doing this.

given the choices you present, I'd say build a pole barn apartment, then as cash allows, build a permanent residence. The pole barn apt. will let  you move in quickest, and will give you additional security for your equipment at night, as you will be just a few feet away.

Plus, the pole barn building will be permanent, the camper won't. Pole barn will become a secure utility building when home goes up.

i dont mind some criticism...... but IMHO it was going a bit too far, as in getting into things in my past, which were really not relevent to what i was asking about.

it was akin to me asking about buying a used truck.... , and a couple guys bringing up a used car i had 2 years ago, or a car repair i had issues with in the past.... and complaining how i drive as well....

i appreciate hearing from you guys and all the experience and knowledge contained here, its been helpful many, many times, and i plan to really use it when i do technical things in the future... and i mean the very near future. .

im still debating things.... i looked at a camper last night..  but after really looking it over,  turned it down, as it had a lot of floor issues....  

i have gotten myself to the edge of being able to finally get to where i want to be... ( on my land).. but just not sure how to proceed.  im to the point my credit is decent, but not up to getting a home construction loan....   im just having a REALLY hard time paying rent, which would much better go towards land ...

im really thinking things over. camper may or may not happen.  ( doubtful it will happen until jan or feb) as i decided to just think about things, and save money this winter at this point, and do needed work on my land as thats cheap and a good stress reducer for me.

im sure some of you guys are in the same place.... living at point a, but wanting to be at point b badly, but just not quite ready, or able to do it the normal way ( house loan)...   its frustrating.

i have seen people do all the things i mentioned successfully.

1. buy a camper and live in it, saving rent money, until they built a house...then sell camper.... a guy not 5 miles from here lived in a 5th wheel for about a year while they built their house and just recently sold the 5th wheel... him, his wife, and 2 kids.....

2. iv seen guys build pole barn garages for cheap, and live in them until they could afford the big house...... and end up with a nice house, and a garage...

i dont see either of these as a bad investment....... as long as your smart about it......

like my idea for a conex for storage..... the gf was very doubtful about spending $1500 for a 20' conex..... as she thought it was wasteful...  however, what would 2 years of a storage unit cost me??   probably close to the conex price.... the difference is, we all know a conex lasts forever, and makes a GREAT building when you add a door and some windows...  so instead of losing money on a storage unit, your basically buying a new out building that will outlast you and probably your kids as well.

thats just one example.

if i DID go the pole barn garage route.... it would be the size i want / need for the future.... and the apartment, would be very satisfactory to live in... and later could be a shop with a shower, etc... or keep it as a guest house... as we have 4 daughters between us, and one will always be wanting to come home for a while, etc.  but a pole barn garage .. would be something i would build anyway.... no matter what..... after the house.... so its definately not wasted space either.  a lot of you guys, and i mean this respectfully, live in over regulated, high cost of living areas, where building permits must be had for EVERYTHING, and EVERYTHING is expensive.

i just talked to a lady yesterday who lives in a 800sq' pole barn house.... that zero to living in it ( finished out) was a total of $45.000.  thats pretty amazing.  no, its not a big house, or a mcmansion to make your neighbors jealous, but to be its a dream.  im pretty confident i could build a large pole barn garage, with apartment for $25-$30k..... finished out, and fully livable.. and very nice...  ( local place priced me a 30x40 pole barn garage.. fully built, walls roof windows and doors, for $12k.  ( no concrete)...  so its definately doable.

but anyway... i appologize if i over reacted.... but i also feel like the criticism went a little too off the subject. thats just my take on it anyway.

No magic things to look for when looking at a camper. Signs of leaks is the biggest one.

I'll throw a non-conventional one out there: Mice. Check for mouse shit under cabinets. I find it disgusting knowing there were mice in the camper. Sure, you can clean up the shit, but know that they have shit/piss on EVERYTHING in that camper, and unless you want to make new covers for the cushions and beds, you are quite literally sleeping on mouse piss. Newer campers seem to be much better designed from the get go about keeping mice out. All the little utility cubbies accessible from outside are properly sealed off to the inside.  We have a 2000 year Coachman 5th wheel camper with a slide out we got for an incredible price ($3k 2 years ago). It had a branch fall on it and poke a few small holes in the roof, was insuranced out. It has a bit of water damage (not bad at all), and $200 in repairs later, we have been using it ever since. We got it so cheap because the auction company screwed up. It was the first camper they were selling with a "buy it now" price, like eBay. Well, they put the minimum bid as the buy it now price. I jumped on that, and they had to honor it . Not even a salvage title! Anyway, this 2000 is sealed nicely against critters getting in. The only possible entry point is when the slide out is out, but we have never had mice get in (but the asian stink beetles get in ). I put traps in the camper under cabinets and such, never has one been touched. Now, the 1977 we had before this one had mice in it. But there were open holes to outside from the electric hookup and such, not sealed at all. We made new covers for all the cushions on that one, still never felt clean. To get something decently nice, I would say to get 1995 or newer if you can.


Biggest money check is the appliances. If they don't work, they are expensive to fix/replace, ESPECIALLY THE FRIDGE. If you are on utility power, I would actually put a conventional household fridge somewhere. Holds a lot more, less power consumed, and more powerful cooling. You have to be VERY careful how many times you open your RV fridge, or it will loose its cool.


Campers with slide out rooms are worth the money, and hold a LOT more resale value. Our camper is a 23ft, but with the small slide out, it feels nice and open and big.

"like my idea for a conex for storage..... the gf was very doubtful about spending $1500 for a 20' conex..... as she thought it was wasteful... however, what would 2 years of a storage unit cost me?? probably close to the conex price.... the difference is, we all know a conex lasts forever, and makes a GREAT building when you add a door and some windows... so instead of losing money on a storage unit, your basically buying a new out building that will outlast you and probably your kids as well."



Exactly on the shipping container.

Where can you find a 20' for $1500, that's a hell of a deal if it's decent.


We're in ours, just got a back massage on the nearly king sized bed in the back, the little Toyotomi heated it to 69F last night with a Fantastic vent open -fan not running- last night...

The heater burning   -point- 15 gallon approx. per hour of kero keeping us toasty warm. Almost nothing...

Outside temp dropped to 5F at high altitude. Getting ready to plow snow with the mini-ex.


In KY, a shipping container would be exceedingly comfortable to live with proper insulation and shading. [AC would be required in summer]


For a fraction what you're talking abt paying for a camper, a motivated person could be moved into a shipping container in ~2 weeks.

It would take insulation ---that I can tell you how to do, installing a sliding door in the front, and a few things to make it livable, I'm not suggesting you make it as refined as we have [we'll be living in ours a good part of every year until I can't anymore due to age/health]


You only need to make it sufficiently refined to live in until you have accrued enough money to take you to more comfortable quarters. 6 months to a year.

I could live here indefinitely if I had to, we spend all day outside mostly when here.


If you keep trying to have everything 'just right and comfy' from the git go, you aren't likely to ever get ahead far enough to reach your goal of a decent place with a roof over your head, as you should realize from recent experiences

A shipping container provides physical security for your stuff when you're away.

It can be easily alarmed with a cell SIM card alarm that will message you on your phone and a cam to verify ---for a few bucks w/ stuff off eBay --and the technical expertise is at your fingertips right here.

Even if you aren't sufficiently motivated to do that, you can install an alarm keypad with LED lights that will be a huge intimidation to someone thinking abt breaking in.

1. Building and remodeling are EXTREMELY hard on marriages. Take that into consideration.

2. I have a friend who moved into a camper after the Simi Valley earthquake. It was VERY difficult, especially since he had a wife and child.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't stack the deck against you so very much with a new marriage.

Dude ... I won't often say this, but EXPY is 100% right and you seriously need to open your eyes.

What you are doing is the stark opposite of "buy once cry once" ... You're creating this hugely convoluted (and risky) scheme with a bunch of intermittent steps and dependencies with no logical connection.   You seem to be addicted to buying stuff that you "NEED" to execute some obscure piece of your master plan that is years out, while completely missing the fact that the ground is falling out from under your feet because you over extended yourself yet again and had your head in the clouds with no endgame.

Frankly, your proposed plan is shockingly horrible and I am surprised that only a few people here have called you out on it thus far.

For contrast, my simple, high level advice to you (which would also apply to just about anyone looking to buy their first land / house):

1) Stay living in an apartment. Don't buy a camper, don't build a barn, don't buy a container, don't do anything crazy like that.  NO NEW PURCHASES! "Boo hoo rent is wasted money" ... Accept that the rent each month is the cost of having a stable base of operations (with limited liability) that will keep you sane and able to make quasi-rational decisions, instead of making horrible decisions while living in a 20' container in the middle of a field because you're worried about your daily survival and too close to the issues to see things clearly.

2) Cut unnecessary expenses.  STOP BUYING STUFF YOU DON'T NEED.  Stop buying survival gear, tools, food preps, etc.  Move into a cheaper apartment if need be, cut memberships, etc.  STACK CASH TO FINANCE YOUR FUTURE.

3) Don't modify land that you are forbidden from modifying. Seriously.  Resist the temptation to modify land that you do not own and legally cannot modify.  Don't be bat shit crazy & construct temp building to try and skirt the restrictions placed on you.

4) Get a second job and make some extra money.  All that time that you WON'T be wasting futzing around on the land, put to use to better your future.

5) Make a solid, START TO FINISH PLAN of what you need to do to reach your goal.  You seem an expert of obsessing over steps 4, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, while totally missing steps 1-3 & 5-finish.  Where are you NOW and where do you need to be for the journey to be complete? Connect the dots in the most linear fashion possible; don't make a meandering path path that goes way off course and fizzles out.

6) Determine realistic costs. Start to finish, how much will this cost you? Add in plenty of buffer to cover unexpected expenses, which always pop up, especially when doing a lot of the work yourself.

7) Borrow as much as you can need & can afford to finish the project.  Yes, from banks.  Yes, this mean going into debt.  You should have a nice fat stack of cash from working 2 jobs & not spending any money.  Banks will be willing to lend you money.  Don't be a fool.  Debt isn't the enemy ... lack of cash flow is the enemy.  Leverage debt to accomplish the goals you want on an expedited timetable, but don't overextend yourself.

8) Don't buy more stupid shit! Seriously, just stop.  Just because you can, doesn't mean that you should.  Seriously!

9) Manage your cash flow and see the project through to COMPLETION! Stop failing and resetting.  Pay off the loan in a timetable that makes sense given your cashflow variance.

10) Post your victory story on SF.    We'd all love for you to finally make it happen & tell us how you did it.

I know your heart is in the right place, but you need to seriously reconsider your process flow and the multitude of risks that you are considering incurring.

Best of luck.

Edit - Forgot to mention, don't burn all your relationships by being overbearing and overzealous ... asking a girlfriend to sign a loan? Living on her old mans back yard, in a freaking camper no less? Moving onto land that you are forbidden from modifying? You're just BEGGING to piss off various parties, any of which would totally foil your process flow and likely cause the whole ship to sink.   This is the equivalent of trying to save a penny at the expense of a dollar.  Please rethink your approach, for your own good.

I think Duggan injected a healthy dose of much needed reality, no need for my to expound upon it beyond saying that I agree.

My own $0.02?

People always say they paid less than they did.  Some are trying to bullshit you, some just omit details, some genuinely don't know and their best guess misses some stuff. Don't base any cost estimates on others.  Get your own estimates in writing. Always budget more than you think you need.

Don't get stuck half way into a project with a big investment. Until you can afford to finish it, you are taking a huge risk. Once you have all the cash lined up, you are only taking a big risk.

Until you finish out the contract for the land, you risk losing everything you poured into it and are stuck with a tractor.

Get the land in your name first, don't make improvements to someone else's property. A lot can happen in two years, finish step one before moving on.

Get your utilities done before trying to get living quarters in. Those costs may make drastic moves screwing up your timetable or making your plans impossible. Camper/conex/pole barn/mcmansion/whatever is going to require utilities before it's liveable, so (plan for/fantasize about now, but) wait to start actually sinking funds into it.

Right now, your number one focus should be on finishing up the contract and getting the land in your name. Don't buy any more tractors.

Sounds like you're going to have a great set up, don't get too far ahead of yourself with the "fun stuff." Focus on getting the first steps done before moving on and you'll have a much easier time. Good luck, and I'm looking forward to seeing it as it progresses!  

you guys have a lot of good advice, the survival forum is a good place for advice.

i only really have a few comments to the above posts.

1. we are having issues with her fathers health. he is 80 years old, and is starting to have problems taking care of his farm. moving onto his property was not to take advantage of him, but to help him as well as help us, as we can do a lot of the stuff he cant do, and being right there is really helpful for him...and it would save a load of money in rent. so, win /win

2. i NEVER asked my gf to buy anything, or cosign for anything. it never entered into my head. she just popped up one day and started talking about a really nice camper the bank had, going on and on and on about it, and how it would be great for some of our plans..... and she could easily buy it...   i didnt ask, hint, or suggest in any way she buy anything. im actually totally against it, as its my job to build this, not hers. i did get caught up in the plan though.  basically we decided we should be married before we ever do anything like that, and since were apparently not quite ready to get married, were definately not ready to be entangling finances.

3. we decided last night, that we are going to save money... and then in the spring look into putting utilities on the land first, before we do anything else.... i will be able to do cheap projects to keep me busy, during the winter and spring, like fixing the driveway, and clearing some areas.

4. i only have TWO land restrictions. ..  the people im buying from, are easy to get along with, and have offered to do backhoe work for me several times $75.00 a hour, to clear or build anything i want. ( of course they benefit if i do improvements, then lost the land back to them, as its much more valuable with roads, home site, utilities, etc. , i agree... but that is not going to happen. period. )
A. no single wide mobile homes.....( this is in the land deed) .. any home has to be at least 1000sq', and on a permanent foundation. ( they did say i could use a camper until a house was built, even if it took several years. so im not sneaking around, trying to bypass anything.
B. i am not allowed to SELL any timber off the property... until the loan is paid off...( agreement between me and land owners) . but i am able to clear whatever i want, for farming, or construction... i just cant sell the timber.

so, anyway. we are not buying anything expensive, like a camper, or conex, etc.   we are going to save and wait until around may / june to see where we are at, at that time....and what we have decided by then..... ( but im still going to be doing projects to keep me from going stir crazy, like installing a gate, putting a road / culvert across the creek to join the two pieces of property..... work on the range, clear some trees and cut for firewood, clear stumps with a backhoe, clear brush, and build burn piles. all pretty inexpensive over all, but neccessary for later work, etc.  

Sell your land, sell your toys.  Buy a small, efficient house, possibly in town. Move there, quit paying rent and pay it off. ENJOY life with you gf. By enjoy life I mean just that--the LIFE part.  If you're not happy enjoying and cooking a meal together, you're not going to be happy doing the same thin with much more debt living in a plywood/camper/carport covered in mouse shit and failure.

Your happiness is not reliant upon land and "projects" on said land.  You make your happiness, which is a hell of a lot easier to do without debt and a pileup of failure.

I'm younger than you, but speaking form my own share of mistakes

This.  They'll run electric to it for free, as a residence like you mentioned.  Rent a ditch witch and trench your own water/phone/cable lines in.  Wire/plumb/insulate the inside as cheaply as you can; just make it an efficiency - one big open living area + bathroom.  Down the road, you have a guest house or man cave.

sometimes when I write... i use lots of periods... and commas,,  and i don't use capital letters either... it's almost like.. i have so much in my head... i just want to get it done now... that i can't think straight... enough to make my posts easy to read...

This. You should be able to get back some good $ selling it as a lake/river cabin afterwards.

 

im just channeling william shatner. i talk like that in person as well....

money is not really the issue..... im not " broke" neither is she. damn sure not selling the land, etc, we would both be miserable living in town. we HATE having neighbors where im living now, moving to town would be hell. she was raised on a farm, and i was raised running around in the country.  we do enjoy life, she is my best friend. we racked up approx 50 hours sitting side by side deer hunting, and quietly talking the entire time.. not a bored minute.

i spend a ENORMOUS amount of time reading, and online.... and im very content, and happy when im stuck inside..i learned to do that a long time ago.. as a kid, as a soldier , and especially now, since i litterally cant leave the house sometimes for days at a time im very content.. however.. i LOVE to build things, and do projects. it takes up a lot of my time, and is very rewarding to me.... i really LOVE tinkering on my land...   we spent a lot of hours laying in our hammock this past summer on our property.. with tons of privacy.... a hammock, a pretty girl, alcohol, and privacy = lots of fun.  fuck living in town.

i cant damn wait until the middle of summer to get those utilities installed, and possibly even have the land paid off by the end of next year.... building a house there will be a dream come true.. then ill be bugging you grumpy asses about raising goats, chickens, building a smoke house, and other crap..

Hey Buck, I'll share my experience.



About 5 years ago, just after the economy crash, we bought a piece of land at the end of a dead-end road.  The guy we bought it from a guy who lost his job and wasn't able to make the payments any longer, so we got it for a song.  We'd been looking for the right place for years, like close to 10 years, but we didn't have our financial plan to build and move ready to execute.  We bought the place anyway.



Over the course of building we ran into tons of cost over runs.  No matter how detailed you think your estimates are, this is going to happen.  Some will be voluntary decisions, some will be OMGWTFBBQ.  Here's a couple of examples of both:



We put our barn in first, so we could start moving our stuff into it from the old house.  There was a small sink hole where the barn was supposed to go.  That drove some significant unplanned excavation costs, because we'd made the unplanned decision to put in a concrete floor now instead of doing it later.  Total over-run:  $8K



We also made a conscious decision to build w/ ICF instead of stick.  Total over-run: $15K.  We're really glad we did this BTW, but it cost.  Same with the window upgrades:  We put in hurricane rated windows for an extra $2K.



Most of these were conscious design decisions.  We had a huge one that really hurt.  We were planning on drilling a well for water.  A couple of dry holes later (which we decided to use for geothermal wells), still no water.  We ended up spending $31K to have city water run almost a mile to our place.  That one really hurt.



We were able to cut some corners and save in a few other places, and do some of the finish work ourselves, which saved about $8K.  The net result was we were $50K over our original budget.  Here's the lesson for you to take away Buck:  I'd been saving half my life to build this place.  I sold my old house before I ever put it on the market for my asking price, so I had some extra cash from that vs. paying a real estate agent.  I was able to absorb the over runs with cash.  If I had planned on doing this whole thing w/ debt, I'd have been screwed to the wall.  Half build house w/ no water, and I'm out of money.  This kind of shit is going to happen to you, or anyone else who builds.  Plan for it, and have a way to pay for it before you ever start.



I can't re-enforce enough the advice of others that the only focus you should have for the next couple of years is to hoard cash.  Sell everything you have that you don't really need and live poor for a while.



One other tip:  Our gov't friends fan and fred don't like acreage.  They won't finance anything over 5-10 acres.  Something like 80% of mortgages are fan/fred.  You might get a construction loan, then have no way to roll it over.  This happened to us.  Because we had a very healthy down payment and cash reserves, we were able to swing an ag loan at a slightly-higher fixed rate.  Best to check all of this out in detail.  If your construction loan comes due and you've got no way to roll it over, you just lost your house and property.



BTW, after all of that, we're house poor.  We didn't deplete all of our non-retirement savings, but a whole lot of it.  It's going to take years to get back to where we were.  I'm not sure I'd do it all again knowing what I know now.  



This will be the most expensive thing you ever do.  If you fuck it up, you'll lose everything.  Be careful, and save that cash...



Good luck.

thanks for the personal story, i really appreciate it. thats some eye opening, and scary stuff. im glad you were able to work it all out, and it had a happy ending. that is my biggest fear about getting a well drilled.. hitting a dry hole..   if i kept that 100 acre chunk of land, thats about how far i would have had to run water as well, almost a full mile.

theres definately a lot of things im not familiar with... still lots of research to do it seems.. i wont be doing anything until next summer sometime, that will give me more time to save, do research, and estimates and things..

good to hear from ya homeslice !

I like the camper idea as you can sell later.  However, it will probably depreciate unless you bought it under market.  If you build the pole barn as a living area then tear down the living area later there is not much recovery of $.  I am in a similar situation but own a home closer to town.  Bought 5 acres well out of town.  My current plan is to finish clearing the land necessary to build (I am 90% done) and get power, septic & well installed early next spring.  Then start building after digging and pouring basement  Should be finishing up the house around Sept.  

Living this close to neighbors is driving me crazy as well.  The land I am building on has a few houses nearby but nothing visible.  Can't wait!  

Hope everything goes well for you.  Feel free to PM me and we can compare building notes.



BTW- Thank you for your service.  

This.

 

Let your gf untangle her life before you get married.


Not a fan of folks shacking up either.

It seems like there has been some solid advice so far in this thread.  Not all of it was easy for OP to hear, but it does sound like he took some of it in and readjusted his plans to a more sensible and in my opinion a fiscally smarter approach (SAVE THAT MONEY, etc.)

I too am considering a pole barn with apartment to live in on my new property.  

For me one of the biggest advantages of this plan is that the county I live in can sometimes make permits etc quite difficult.  Since my "barn" is an agricultural building, the driveway, well, septic, and power will all be in place prior to us talking to the county about building a home.  As long as my barn doesn't have an oven (kitchen), it's not considered a house.

It will also be nice to already have the infrastructure and associated expenses taken care of when we actually begin with the real house.  

Good luck Buck, and I look forward to hearing how this all goes for you!

+1.

I could have sworn I posted in this thread on day 1....guess not. Must be because I didn't have anything nice to say.

I would point out that you are "jumping the gun"," putting the cart before the horse" etc.

If you're really feeling froggy...you should get a second job and PAY OFF THE LAND!

You don't make improvements to someone else's land, period, FULL STOP.

If you can get away with living there to save more money to PAY OFF THE LAND, then do so.( In a tent, a truck or a camper).

Or throw together a 2x4 framed building for less, and get more.  Even installing a window in a container would be a cast iron bitch, and they're ugly as hell (IMHO).

countryplans.com

I built a 8x8 fort for my son with a real roof, on stilts for about 600 bucks.  I'm positive I could do up a 12x20 structure to live in temporarily for 5 grand.  

It's trivial to put a window in a container.

But why would you want to if it's only used briefly until finances allow going to the next step.

An enclosed container provides a lot of security.

That can be enhanced in some clever ways from just a padlock on the door.