Wife and I decided to make our bug out camper. Going to look for a 15ft ish camper or utility trailer, either way will be setup for all 4 Minnesota seasons.

So what is the best, most fuel efficient propane heater for that small space. Needs to be safe. Reliable, efficient, bonus points for non electric.


Thought about the vent free wall mount jobs or buddy heater, but will moisture be an issue in that small of space? Buddy heater gives tank options, but would go withthe big buddy for the low ppressure setup.


Regular camper propane forced air furnaces suck the battery fast, and are horribly inefficient.

I'm thinking something that offers heat inside, with combustion outside.



Don't want to wake up dead.

Yup, must be safe. Battery propane/co detector will be in use, but still.

 

We use a small ceramic electric heater in our small camper.  It is plenty of heat down to upper 20s and I'm sure it could handle even much lower temps.  

I would not want a vent free heater in that space.  

If you have to go propane, I think you need to be looking at a camper type vented furnace.

Olympian 3000 BTU catalytic should work just fine.

I have been using the Mr Heater "Buddy" series heaters for about 4 years trouble free. I did have to clean the dc powered fan on my Big Buddy heater. that is to be expected.


They are rated indoor safe. I would still use CO and Propane monitors in a camper.  Better safe than sorry.







Don't plan on using the Big Buddy on 1lb tanks. I do use a propane filter just in case there is trash in the tanks.


 

We have been using one like this for the last 25 years in a pop-up and it works great.

I have one also, damn good heater

The Buddy's seem to give a lot of options on use and where used.

I like the portability.  Last winter my son was doing a shoot on/near a frozen lake.  We brought the Big Buddy and a Deer Blind tent to make a place to warm up.

The big buddy or portable buddy will do just fine for you. Just be sure you have a small vent to get some fresh air.

You do need to be very careful with running hoses into your living space and running 20lb tanks. If the hose leaks it will suffocate you and your wife in your sleep. Refilling 1lb tanks isn't hard and it is a bit safer.

I HIGHLY recommend this website: http://www.tnttt.com/

Scroll down a little to the section on converting cargo trailers. They also recommend not using mr buddy heaters inside, and they recommend a marine heater. It is a (most or completely) sealed unit. Pipe in pipe design, fresh air comes in the inner stack, exhaust goes out the outer stack (or vise versa). They also have a TON of info/lessons learned about other stuff, showers down to insulation tips. From "stealth" to flamboyant creations, from "plug-n-play" to complete off grid, and all in between.

Same here. The Big Buddy with a 30lb cylinder will last a good while. The fan will run on D cell batteries for a good while as well.

For short term light duty use, a Buddy heater.

For longer term, an Olympian heater.

For even longer term, there is no way in Hell I would use an unvented heater where I live and sleep ---long term.

The health risks are too great.

In that case, a vented standard RV propane heater [~$400 and noisey] or a "Plat Cat" platinum catalytic vented propane heater... Twice the $$ IIRC, and quiet with thermostatic control.


.....or the Olympian platinum cat heater very likely can be modified to function like the vented PlatCat. I bought one for when the Plat Cat fails and I can't get parts

Be sure to pay more and get the Olympian with the thermostatic control so you don't have to fiddle with the valve often. About $400.


Even longer term, more or less permanent solution, the Toyotomi kerosene/ULS diesel heaters are great. $1000

You can search for my topics on most of these, and how we built the stealth trailer, and we actively live with both the RV propane and the Toytomi heaters in a shipping container, in the mtns at high altitude, where it gets COLD


The RV furnace runs when we aren't there to keep things about 40F and the Toyotomi vented heater runs when we are there because it makes little noise.


In the Stealth trailer, we use a Plat Cat, but for your ap in MN, it doesn't develop enough BTU's -as well as the owner of the co is, 'independent minded', and it might take a while to get one.



Here's how we store bedding in the stealth trailer, looking to the rear fold down door.




Bunks fold down and the Plat Cat is in front of them on the outside interior wall of the tiny bathroom, facing the man-door access. Door is covered with that Astro Foil or whatever reflective insulation to reradiate heat from the door back into the trailer.

Pink foam insulation is throughout the trailer and allows the low BTU furnace to work well down to about 20F, below that, we have to bundle up, and we've spent the night comfortably in temps as low as 5F


I had the mattresses made per my design and they are comfortable.


We've got ~90,000 miles on the S Trailer all over the country and many days living/sleeping in it, over the ~13 years since we built it. It's had lots of improvements since then, incl  new much heavier axles after one of the orig ones broke loose on I-5 ~ 1 AM.

It's important to pick a GOOD quality trailer for the conversion. Not one of the usual cheap trailer lot offerings. Doesn't cost much more.

As far as regular RV propane furnaces, there are some that are 'battery efficient'

We use the Atwood in the shipping container in the mtns, and the only significant current draw at 12vdc is the fan that runs intermittently.

The current draw is in the specs about 3 amps and 2 deep discharge golf cart batteries can keep an insulated trailer warm for days before recharging.

Add a couple good solar panels to the trailer roof and you can go a long time.

18k BTU and in MN you'll need it...

Atwood







If you use an unvented heater, the colder it is the more moisture WILL be an issue.

In MN, if your are building a serious trailer ---and not playing around, a vented heater is a must.


These are noisy.


In a trailer it's a good idea to have redundant CO2 detectors and smoke detectors.

I also wired a secondary propane solenoid valve ---outside and under the trailer living space-  in parallel with the Plat-Cat thermostatic controls [across the vent motor actually] so if the propane valve in the Plat Cat fails there is another cutoff.

An RV propane detector is another 'must' have.

Pix of a used eBay Toyotomi vented heater and an eBay KeroSun Radiant 10  in the insulated room in the barn while I was experimenting with what to heat it with.

At the altitude we're at, the KeroSun set off the CO2 detector sometimes  --too dangerous to use inside  the room.

Buddy heater --forget it...

Both are OK where in large open areas

You don't wake up dead there buddy....

http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=55219&start=45#p1045673

Thanks for the replies all. While a big buddy would be easy, I am uneasy about the wife and kids in that small and tight of a space with an un-vented flame while sleeping, even with redundant detectors.

This Atwood (or similar) wins. Price at $500 isn't bad, self contained unit, small, good BTUs, vented, actual thermostat (not just high/med/low). Even though it takes power, it is a small load. If we end up getting an older camper to gut, I'll have to take some measurements of its furnace current draw and BTU rating (providing it works), perhaps it may be sufficient. Seems the typical RV furnace puts just as much hot air out the exhaust as goes in the cabin, though.


So far for appliances list, I have one of these, small window A/C, source a single burner propane cook stove that I can hard install, and on board generator. I need to try, but I think the HF 2 stroke jobs will run those little 5k window AC units, which will work until I can get something like a 1.5k 4 stroke genny with propane kit. Biggest load would be the AC, and only when needed. Need a good and strong battery charging system that runs off the generator, all systems will be 12VDC only, and only a few 120 outlets installed. Every light will be LED for minimum battery draw for light. Want to work out 3-4 30 pound propane tanks, but will see what I can fit. No fridge, will have a cooler in there for when we use it for fishing in the summer. No oven, but will have a fold-able camp oven that goes over the burner. Bathroom facilities will be a self-contained portable toilet, may keep the tub if it has one.

My thoughts exactly

I know a guy who has lived in a van during a few winters. He uses the buddy versions and has used am old school kero in a larger RV. He says he keeps the windows cracked and sleeps elevated...van has rusty floors. Not good, but it can be done.

why is this important?

In some applications, the extra moisture is a benefit - Keeps the humidity high enough to prevent cracked lips, nosebleeds, sinus infections, etc.

Doesn't that happen with UNVENTED propane heaters?

Vented heaters exhaust the combustion product --water- outside.

As far as dehumidifier, it won't work with our application. WAAAAY too much power to run that.

Of course...

You do know in the winter up here everything dries out naturally, right? We usually run HUMIDIFIERS just so you can breathe.

 

Sort of, as far as my needs, I am going to source a vented propane heater like Expy linked to.

 


If anyone is keeping track, I am using a Big Buddy to heat my office, which is a 280 square ft sawed off mobile home. Zero moisture issues, but the door leaks air significantly. Speaking of which, I need to work on sealing up that door.


 

That wouldn't begin to dehumidify what would need to be done while heating a camper in cold wx.

Completely agree with this suggestion. The BIG BUDDY Heaters rock and will easily keep your place hot if you want. The Big Buddy has a battery (or 12v conversion plug to 120v) powered fan that circulates the air making it more efficient. I run mine with D battery adapters that use double AA rechargeable batteries just to keep it more mobile. The BB also has (2) cylinders vs the normal ones that only have one. It will run all night on low with two full tanks. I refill mine too as mentioned. You can run a hose outside to a larger tank but just be safe about it.

This would also be another great option since it has an actual thermostat  http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-Propane-Vent-Free-VF30KBLUELP/dp/B000UPR5TY