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Posted: 10/7/2015 6:13:47 AM EDT
Something I wrote about climate, survival and a few considerations. As always comments and discussion is more than welcomed.
FerFAL


Survival and Climate Change: Five Strategic Weather Considerations
Posted on October 5, 2015 by FerFAL

South Carolina, two days ago.

Before I even get started, let me say that no, this is not some tree-hugging climate change rant but an approach to the topic of weather and survival from an objective, practical point of view. I believe this is just one of those topics of great importance that is rarely addressed, or at least not often addressed from a truly practical perspective.
Trying to keep it simple, these are the top considerations I would keep in mind:
1)Accept the fact: Climate Changes. Always has, always will.
As explained earlier, my intention here is not to discuss the causes for climate change, how much of it depends on human activity (or not) or the different financial interests people on either side of the debate have. From a survival perspective the important part to understand is that climate change is real and it simply happens.
Climate change has happened before, it will happen again, and in fact it does happen naturally all the time. I happen to believe that we do affect the world around us to some extent. The Dust Bowl is actually a good example of how certain natural occurrences (drought), combined with certain… let’s call them unwisely chosen agricultural practices have combined with disastrous results. Either way, on a global level the climate is changing as it always has and that unavoidably impacts people’s lives. Some areas will experience far worse droughts, others become warmer and more tropical, maybe TOO warm for their own good. At the same time some other areas may become far colder than they already are.


Cimarron County, Oklahoma, 1936

Climate simply changes. We have ice ages every 100.000 years, interglacial warmer periods lasting about 10.000 years and then you have events such as The 8.2 kiloyear event or Younger Dryas stadial, think “Day After Tomorrow” movie where temperatures drop very, very fast in a matter of months rather than years. Scientists have different theories as of why these happen, but the important thing to remember is that they have happen before. In case you’re wondering, we’re now in whats called the Holocene geological epoch, an interglacial period that started 11,700 years ago.
While fascinating, other than the Younger Dryas stadial which Hollywood considered worthy of using in a disaster movie, it would seem that periods lasting thousands of years have little relevance in the disaster preparedness world. The thing is, even a couple degrees difference can have drastic consequences to crops, food production, water availability, sea levels and floods. Therefore it is important to approach weather not only as a static factor, but a dynamic one where towns may have to shut down because of lack of water or find themselves under it. Both of these have happen already, many times, in recent years. Avoiding locations already prone to natural disasters will be more critical than ever.
2)The Rule of Three
You’re probably familiar with the Rule of Three, which says you can’t survive 3 minutes without air, 3 hours of extreme exposure, 3 days without water or 3 weeks without food. Indeed, its more of a mnemonic device but in very broad terms it does provide a general idea of which are your priorities for staying alive.
Interestingly enough, all of the 3s are mostly location dependant. Where you live will dictate the quality of air (air pollution) the risk of it being compromised (volcano, industrial disaster, wild fire), will dictate the kind of shelter you can or can’t live without based on extreme temperatures, how much water is available and how easy it is to produce and acquire food. Like in Real Estate, a great part of survival is location, location, location.
Of these, the second and third line are of particular important. While of course having fresh clean air is critical, it is temperature and water availability that are often the hardest to balance. Not only proximity to rivers and lakes, as well as availability of wells, but also how much it actually rains each year is of great importance. Without enough rain, streams, lakes and of course wells are nothing but holes in the ground.


Minnesota family poses in front of log cabin, 1890


Florida Family, 1890

If possible, we also want mild to warm temperatures for as much of the year as we can. Personal preferences of course vary, but one thing stays the same: Most humans have a comfort zone between 21 °C and 25 °C with a humidity of about 50%. The further away you move from that the sooner you’ll need to worry about heating or air conditioning.
3)Growing Seasons and food production
Where you live and the kind of weather you have in such a location will determine what you can or cannot produce in terms of food, what plants can grow and which animals can be kept without having to use expensive additional resources.
For many survivalists the ability to grow food is essential, either as part of their planned food supply or because they simply enjoy having fresh home grown food. But even if that’s not you the ability to produce food in your area is of great importance. On one hand, it means that you too can start your own orchard if it ever becomes necessary or if you simply want to give it a go. On the other it means that there’s a greater amount of locally produced food, bringing down the cost, increasing local availability, both of which are important aspects during economic downturns or disasters of great magnitude.
4)The Cost of Cold Weather
Publications dedicated to homesteading often address the topic of heating self-sufficiency. Keeping a supply of firewood, processing it, having stoves, servicing them, having large tanks for fuel, above or underground, and this is just a drop in the bucket. Again, when it comes to personal preferences practically everything goes, but when it comes to practical survival the answer is pretty simple: It’s better not to need any of it in the first place! How bad winters are can make a big difference. In some parts of the world being left without central heating because of a power outage, or being left without firewood during the worst of winter means you’re dead within hours. How long winter lasts and how cold it gets matters greatly. In some areas even if you don’t get covered in snow you still may need heating for most of the winter and autumn. On the other end of the spectrum you have places where summers are unbearable and you need AC. Here it really depends on the kind of building we’re talking about. Poorly designed houses or densely populated apartment buildings are sometimes impossible to live in without air conditioner.
From a survival perspective, you would ideally live in a place where you need neither one and don’t need heating or AC to live comfortably. If forced to choose, survivability is easier to achieve in warmer climates than in colder ones.
5)Temperature, humidity, sun exposure and the overall impact on your health and quality of life.
At the end of the day we end up living where we like doing so indifferently from what’s purely practical. We’re not robots and we just like what we like, sometimes without much of a logical explanation. One thing to keep in mind though, is that we may like certain things, but our bodies may not agree with our heart. By this I mean there’s a simple physiological reality which is that our bodies need a certain temperature, a certain humidity, a certain solar exposure.
There’s a reason why old folks retire to Florida rather than Maine, in spite of Maine being a fantastic State. Our bodies feel better with somewhat warmer temperatures, mid-range humidity and a certain amount of sun exposure.

FerFAL
Fernando “FerFAL” Aguirre is the author of “The Modern Survival Manual: Surviving the Economic Collapse” and “Bugging Out and Relocating: When Staying is not an Option”.
View Quote



http://www.themodernsurvivalist.com/archives/4415
Link Posted: 10/7/2015 8:52:46 AM EDT
[#1]
Good food for though.

I always marveled at people that opted to live in a flood plain of the Susquehanna river and were then upset when it flooded.
Link Posted: 10/7/2015 11:05:13 AM EDT
[#2]
Problem is, places with warm, easy climates also tend to have very high population density. And that's the worst possible thing for survival in a truly bad scenario. Much easier to mitigate the effects of extremely cold weather than the effects of hordes of desperate people. I've spent a few nights out in -30. With the right sleeping bag and clothes you survive even without a fire. If you build an energy efficient concrete home, maybe partially underground, you can darn near heat with a few candles. To me, the number one weather criteria is, "does it keep population density down"?

Link Posted: 10/7/2015 12:27:22 PM EDT
[#3]
<---- From Minnesota.



Cold isn't hard to deal with with only a little bit of preparation. Shoot, folks have been doing it here even before the white man came . I can sit outside all day long in -20 with just a proper snow suit, and I have done it many times .







The big weather factor isn't temperature. Its water.




Rain makes things grow. Growing things makes food. Food keeps you alive. On the flip side, too much floods you out (been through flooding). I would say living in a place with little water (or water that depends on modern infrastructure and getting a shit ton of snow in winter for mountain snow pack) is what will get you. Wars are fought over WATER.




When you get down to it, I still think Minnesota is a great place to survive. We have great growing conditions (albeit seasonal), plenty of water EVERYWHERE, not to mention easy to get to aquifers, it doesn't get too hot for too long, too cold for too long, and we have abundant natural heat sources (trees). I also live on a hill, so I cannot flood. If it looked like my house was going under water, I would already have the Ark 2.0 mostly built.




If only we could get the California bleeding heart libs to go back where they came from...






Link Posted: 10/7/2015 12:29:12 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
Problem is, places with warm, easy climates also tend to have very high population density. And that's the worst possible thing for survival in a truly bad scenario.

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Quoted:
Problem is, places with warm, easy climates also tend to have very high population density. And that's the worst possible thing for survival in a truly bad scenario.



The thing is, that's often accepted as a fact but it just not necessarily true. Its actually in very few cases where people are a problem, while in most of them more people means more help, and a key aspect is that more people means more and better infrastructure and faster response.

Much easier to mitigate the effects of extremely cold weather than the effects of hordes of desperate people. I've spent a few nights out in -30. With the right sleeping bag and clothes you survive even without a fire. If you build an energy efficient concrete home, maybe partially underground, you can darn near heat with a few candles. To me, the number one weather criteria is, "does it keep population density down"?


Ask yourself how often you have to worry about not freezing to death in cold climates vs hordes of desperate people causing problems. Heating with a few candles? Tell that to the folks here investing in quality wood stoves and spending days cutting, hauling, procesing, stacking, seasoning and moving firewood!
FerFAL
Link Posted: 10/7/2015 12:30:44 PM EDT
[#5]

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Quoted:


Good food for though.



I always marveled at people that opted to live in a flood plain of the Susquehanna river and were then upset when it flooded.
View Quote
Same thing with the Red River valley. Floods "catastrophically" every few years. Then we funnel in millions to rebuild Fargo again and again and again

 
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 4:13:09 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
Same thing with the Red River valley. Floods "catastrophically" every few years. Then we funnel in millions to rebuild Fargo again and again and again  
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Good food for though.

I always marveled at people that opted to live in a flood plain of the Susquehanna river and were then upset when it flooded.
Same thing with the Red River valley. Floods "catastrophically" every few years. Then we funnel in millions to rebuild Fargo again and again and again  


I look at the flood maps and if I see that the area flooded in the last 200 years then I-m not touching it, and I make sure I stay a good distance away form it. Developers dont give a damn, they just build and sell, bribe whoever needs bribing to build in areas they shouldnt and still get the permits.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 6:43:02 AM EDT
[#7]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Problem is, places with warm, easy climates also tend to have very high population density. And that's the worst possible thing for survival in a truly bad scenario. Much easier to mitigate the effects of extremely cold weather than the effects of hordes of desperate people. I've spent a few nights out in -30. With the right sleeping bag and clothes you survive even without a fire. If you build an energy efficient concrete home, maybe partially underground, you can darn near heat with a few candles. To me, the number one weather criteria is, "does it keep population density down"?



View Quote




 
Get rid of hvac and floridas population would drastically drop.

There is a MAJOR difference between the coast and 20+ miles inland. It can be breezy..85....and feel "nice"even with higher humidty. High populations of retirees and northern transplants.




Go 20-30 miles inland. You just entered a fucking sauna . Temps are 8-15deg higher .more so once index is added in.

Theres a reason everything off the coast was orange groves..farms or woods up till the mid 60s...

So folks tend to over look that.




As for flood plains...the 200 year sits on my property. Or as fema classified it. Im in tbe 1% range or a 28% chance to be flooded...luckily my place sits on higher ground and is built for this area. Being 5+ft above any flood plain.

Living here due to terrain means low population in the direct area. No one from jawwseey wants to live in a swamp....
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 7:32:12 AM EDT
[#8]
It would seem that anyone with a lick of sense quickly learns how to survive local weather ups and downs.  Those that don't are basically trying to invent "Weather Free Zones" in the hope that Mother Nature will stay away or the government will save them, kind of like the morons who invented "Gun Free Zones".  
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 7:47:03 AM EDT
[#9]
The weather will reduce the population quickly in a winter shtf. Mobility is greatly reduced as well. It could give us months before we have to deal with a greatly reduced number of refugees.
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 8:42:02 AM EDT
[#10]
Firstly ferfal, did you have to use that climate change moniker?  Sorry the whole political BS of the taints the phrase.

I think the linchpin is electricity.  Once you lose that you are back to 1890 existence.   Doesn't matter what causes the loss of it, system failure, ice storms, tornados, floods.  

If you're not at least ready to ride out a month of no electricity then you haven't thought about it enough.   I lived in areas with ice storm damage and there were parts that were out of electric for 3+ weeks.  There were some communities that busted ass to take care of others and then there was one or two where the local fire chief when he was overwhelmed simply stated, we fight fires, we don't do ice storms and walked off. Meanwhile his town was hard hit and had a lot of old folks with no heat in the dead of a NY winter (Canadian border).   People were making do and a few died from CO poisoning from generators, running ovens with the door open for weeks, running coleman gear.   A lot of people had woodstoves and were living ok, those that didn't were scrambling to get kerosene heaters and generators.  By then it was too late unless you were willing to pay scalper prices and even then you may not get what you wanted.  

Floods are one that always blow my mind, like was already said,  why are you living in a flood plain?  Often times it's folks that decided the risk was worth it to live on a water body.
I can't say I ever really lived in too many flood prone areas, grew up on a house way up on hill on a cliff above a big creek, no worries there, Noah would be passing by before I was in trouble.  I live in a similar set up now w/o the creek.  

Drought,  usually it's not bad in this area.  We are in a relative drought for us but my garden still produced w/o much watering, apple trees still delivered, (I had one small young tree die I believe).  

Big fault through NY but it's usually quiet.  They always say that if it slips it will be huge. Low risk in my estimation. We have very mild, barely perceptible seismic tremors every year or two.  


Good point on the snowfall limiting mobility.  If you really get socked in, if you don't have it, you aren't likely to get it at least not for a few days or more.   I may have a snowmobile and a trailered sled for it but will someone be at the destination to buy food, fuel, etc?
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 9:41:28 AM EDT
[#11]
the issue of snowmobiles was mentioned, and I would like to comment about it.



In a SHTF, Snowmageddon, etc. where a snowmobile would be the only way to move around (less those areas like the arrow head of MN where they don't plow roads in the winter and folks have more money in their snow machines than their trucks), your snowmobile serves ONLY 2 purposes: Bug out or get to the hospital (which is kind of a bug out). If things are that bad, the minimum wage employee isn't going to walk through the elements to get to the gas station that didn't get the fuel shipment, and the power is out anyway. Same thing with the Wal Mart. Not happening.




Getting supplies doesn't work on a snowmobile: they don't hold much. Pretty much what you can get on your person. Yes, the mountain machines have a cargo rack on the back, but the smart folks have fuel strapped to that. I used saddle bags, but by the time you get some emergency gear in those, they are about full. Sleds behind snowmobiles don't work well, and are prone to tipping. You won't be on nicely groomed trails, but pushing that machine to its limits on the drifts and terrain. Even evac to the hospital is iffy: no good way to bring a second person, much less injured unless you have a nice smooth way to get there and have them on a sled.




No, your typical snowmobile isn't the great snowpocolipse tool. A quad converted with tracks or a trail groomer, or other larger multi-track snow machine, yes. I have seen some VERY impressive youtube vids of these track attachments you drive your 1 ton pickup into and the wheel turn the tracks, and they go through some impressive shit. I have long wanted to convert an old bronco into a 4 track machine, just for shits and giggles, but in my area of MN, we don't get the snow anymore to justify it.
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 2:00:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
the issue of snowmobiles was mentioned, and I would like to comment about it.

In a SHTF, Snowmageddon, etc. where a snowmobile would be the only way to move around (less those areas like the arrow head of MN where they don't plow roads in the winter and folks have more money in their snow machines than their trucks), your snowmobile serves ONLY 2 purposes: Bug out or get to the hospital (which is kind of a bug out). If things are that bad, the minimum wage employee isn't going to walk through the elements to get to the gas station that didn't get the fuel shipment, and the power is out anyway. Same thing with the Wal Mart. Not happening.


Getting supplies doesn't work on a snowmobile: they don't hold much. Pretty much what you can get on your person. Yes, the mountain machines have a cargo rack on the back, but the smart folks have fuel strapped to that. I used saddle bags, but by the time you get some emergency gear in those, they are about full. Sleds behind snowmobiles don't work well, and are prone to tipping. You won't be on nicely groomed trails, but pushing that machine to its limits on the drifts and terrain. Even evac to the hospital is iffy: no good way to bring a second person, much less injured unless you have a nice smooth way to get there and have them on a sled.


No, your typical snowmobile isn't the great snowpocolipse tool. A quad converted with tracks or a trail groomer, or other larger multi-track snow machine, yes. I have seen some VERY impressive youtube vids of these track attachments you drive your 1 ton pickup into and the wheel turn the tracks, and they go through some impressive shit. I have long wanted to convert an old bronco into a 4 track machine, just for shits and giggles, but in my area of MN, we don't get the snow anymore to justify it.
View Quote




You need an Argo...


Link Posted: 10/8/2015 2:00:56 PM EDT
[#13]

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Quoted:

I think the linchpin is electricity.  Once you lose that you are back to 1890 existence.   Doesn't matter what causes the loss of it, system failure, ice storms, tornados, floods.
If you're not at least ready to ride out a month of no electricity then you haven't thought about it enough.  
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I think the linchpin is electricity.  Once you lose that you are back to 1890 existence.   Doesn't matter what causes the loss of it, system failure, ice storms, tornados, floods.
If you're not at least ready to ride out a month of no electricity then you haven't thought about it enough.  

That's why it rocks to be in areas where there's no ice storms, no tornados, huricanes, no floods, practically no winters and not awfully hot summers.
I agree that being without light sucks, but it sure as hell sucks a lot more in one areas than in others. Being without power in Malaga where I am now is one thing, being without light in the north of Ireland where I was up a month ago is a very different situation which requires a lot more preparedness to get through 10 months out of 12.

I lived in areas with ice storm damage and there were parts that were out of electric for 3+ weeks.  There were some communities that busted ass to take care of others and then there was one or two where the local fire chief when he was overwhelmed simply stated, we fight fires, we don't do ice storms and walked off. Meanwhile his town was hard hit and had a lot of old folks with no heat in the dead of a NY winter (Canadian border).   People were making do and a few died from CO poisoning from generators, running ovens with the door open for weeks, running coleman gear.   A lot of people had woodstoves and were living ok, those that didn't were scrambling to get kerosene heaters and generators.  By then it was too late unless you were willing to pay scalper prices and even then you may not get what you wanted.

Agreed and again, these are things that entirely depend on where you live. Not saying its the only factor to take into account but all these things yoyu mention go to show how location can avoid some of the most common disasters people have to deal with every year.

Floods are one that always blow my mind, like was already said,  why are you living in a flood plain?  Often times it's folks that decided the risk was worth it to live on a water body.
I can't say I ever really lived in too many flood prone areas, grew up on a house way up on hill on a cliff above a big creek, no worries there, Noah would be passing by before I was in trouble.  I live in a similar set up now w/o the creek.  

People forget, or they think its just not going to happen to them. How can you otherwise explain why anyone would live in a flood prone area? Sometimes its new developments that screw things up and floods start happening in places where it wasnt  a problem. Of course too much urban development without enough green areas for abosrtion complicates things as well.


Drought,  usually it's not bad in this area.  We are in a relative drought for us but my garden still produced w/o much watering, apple trees still delivered, (I had one small young tree die I believe).  

Big fault through NY but it's usually quiet.  They always say that if it slips it will be huge. Low risk in my estimation. We have very mild, barely perceptible seismic tremors every year or two.  


Good point on the snowfall limiting mobility.  If you really get socked in, if you don't have it, you aren't likely to get it at least not for a few days or more.   I may have a snowmobile and a trailered sled for it but will someone be at the destination to buy food, fuel, etc?

Quoted:
the issue of snowmobiles was mentioned, and I would like to comment about it.

In a SHTF, Snowmageddon, etc. where a snowmobile would be the only way to move around (less those areas like the arrow head of MN where they don't plow roads in the winter and folks have more money in their snow machines than their trucks), your snowmobile serves ONLY 2 purposes: Bug out or get to the hospital (which is kind of a bug out). If things are that bad, the minimum wage employee isn't going to walk through the elements to get to the gas station that didn't get the fuel shipment, and the power is out anyway. Same thing with the Wal Mart. Not happening.


Getting supplies doesn't work on a snowmobile: they don't hold much. Pretty much what you can get on your person. Yes, the mountain machines have a cargo rack on the back, but the smart folks have fuel strapped to that. I used saddle bags, but by the time you get some emergency gear in those, they are about full. Sleds behind snowmobiles don't work well, and are prone to tipping. You won't be on nicely groomed trails, but pushing that machine to its limits on the drifts and terrain. Even evac to the hospital is iffy: no good way to bring a second person, much less injured unless you have a nice smooth way to get there and have them on a sled.


No, your typical snowmobile isn't the great snowpocolipse tool. A quad converted with tracks or a trail groomer, or other larger multi-track snow machine, yes. I have seen some VERY impressive youtube vids of these track attachments you drive your 1 ton pickup into and the wheel turn the tracks, and they go through some impressive shit. I have long wanted to convert an old bronco into a 4 track machine, just for shits and giggles, but in my area of MN, we don't get the snow anymore to justify it.

I dont know about that. I know theres people up north that swear by their snowmobiles.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 2:39:41 PM EDT
[#14]

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Quoted:






I dont know about that. I know theres people up north that swear by their snowmobiles.

FerFAL

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Quoted:




Quoted:

the issue of snowmobiles was mentioned, and I would like to comment about it.



In a SHTF, Snowmageddon, etc. where a snowmobile would be the only way to move around (less those areas like the arrow head of MN where they don't plow roads in the winter and folks have more money in their snow machines than their trucks), your snowmobile serves ONLY 2 purposes: Bug out or get to the hospital (which is kind of a bug out). If things are that bad, the minimum wage employee isn't going to walk through the elements to get to the gas station that didn't get the fuel shipment, and the power is out anyway. Same thing with the Wal Mart. Not happening.





Getting supplies doesn't work on a snowmobile: they don't hold much. Pretty much what you can get on your person. Yes, the mountain machines have a cargo rack on the back, but the smart folks have fuel strapped to that. I used saddle bags, but by the time you get some emergency gear in those, they are about full. Sleds behind snowmobiles don't work well, and are prone to tipping. You won't be on nicely groomed trails, but pushing that machine to its limits on the drifts and terrain. Even evac to the hospital is iffy: no good way to bring a second person, much less injured unless you have a nice smooth way to get there and have them on a sled.





No, your typical snowmobile isn't the great snowpocolipse tool. A quad converted with tracks or a trail groomer, or other larger multi-track snow machine, yes. I have seen some VERY impressive youtube vids of these track attachments you drive your 1 ton pickup into and the wheel turn the tracks, and they go through some impressive shit. I have long wanted to convert an old bronco into a 4 track machine, just for shits and giggles, but in my area of MN, we don't get the snow anymore to justify it.



I dont know about that. I know theres people up north that swear by their snowmobiles.

FerFAL

Oh, I'm up north. Before wife/kids, I rode PLENTY, and I know what they can/can't do and what they are good for and not. They are fun machines for sure. Perhaps if you have a true mountain machine that is PROPERLY equipped ahead of time (as in a regular mountain rider), perhaps a single person can bug out with nothing but the their BOB, but I already mentioned that. They aren't worth a crap for a second person who is injured/small/weak/feable, and towing is dangerous at best. For a second person going anything resembling long rides requires a 2up, and then say goodbye to wearing a backpack. The angles in which you have to run off-trail all but eliminates the possibility of a sled, especially in a makeshift fashion. At best, attach your BOB to the hood if liquid cooled and you have room for 1 person to hold on like crazy. I've fallen off the back while riding passenger on a single person machine (which are the majority) because we hit an un-expected bump. I was lucky and wasn't injured (we were going very slow in powder), but risky crap like that during an emergency is stupid in itself.

 



I'm a born and raised Minnesotan. Snow is in my blood 9 months out of the year
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 4:30:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Ferfal,

You are missing my point. I want the snow to limit mobility to help protect my family while a die off happens. I want the shtf in the winter.  It might save a lot of lives of prepared people.
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 5:25:06 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
Ferfal,

You are missing my point. I want the snow to limit mobility to help protect my family while a die off happens. I want the shtf in the winter.  It might save a lot of lives of prepared people.
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ok, but measuring the pros and cons, the tactical advantage of limiting an advance of hostiles or during a "die off" in a fully theorical situation, one that also must conveniently take place in winter vs the cons having to deal with it every year for months, end of the world or not. It just doesnt add up from a practical POV.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 5:36:04 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
Ferfal,

You are missing my point. I want the snow to limit mobility to help protect my family while a die off happens. I want the shtf in the winter.  It might save a lot of lives of prepared people.
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EXACTLY!

Sometimes ADVERSITY...

Is your FRIEND




Link Posted: 10/8/2015 5:41:57 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:




EXACTLY!

Sometimes ADVERSITY...

Is your FRIEND




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Quoted:
Quoted:
Ferfal,

You are missing my point. I want the snow to limit mobility to help protect my family while a die off happens. I want the shtf in the winter.  It might save a lot of lives of prepared people.




EXACTLY!

Sometimes ADVERSITY...

Is your FRIEND





This is a big part of why I moved to high altitude semi arid mountains in the middle of nowhere.
The terrain is like a moat.
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 5:58:18 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:


ok, but measuring the pros and cons, the tactical advantage of limiting an advance of hostiles or during a "die off" in a fully theorical situation, one that also must conveniently take place in winter vs the cons having to deal with it every year for months, end of the world or not. It just doesnt add up from a practical POV.
FerFAL
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Quoted:
Ferfal,

You are missing my point. I want the snow to limit mobility to help protect my family while a die off happens. I want the shtf in the winter.  It might save a lot of lives of prepared people.


ok, but measuring the pros and cons, the tactical advantage of limiting an advance of hostiles or during a "die off" in a fully theorical situation, one that also must conveniently take place in winter vs the cons having to deal with it every year for months, end of the world or not. It just doesnt add up from a practical POV.
FerFAL


What is the big deal? We live like this our whole lives. Not a major problem.
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 9:15:51 PM EDT
[#20]

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Quoted:


Ferfal,



You are missing my point. I want the snow to limit mobility to help protect my family while a die off happens. I want the shtf in the winter.  It might save a lot of lives of prepared people.
View Quote




 
I want it in mid july through august here..






Link Posted: 10/8/2015 10:30:38 PM EDT
[#21]
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Ask yourself how often you have to worry about not freezing to death in cold climates vs hordes of desperate people causing problems. Heating with a few candles? Tell that to the folks here investing in quality wood stoves and spending days cutting, hauling, procesing, stacking, seasoning and moving firewood!
FerFAL
View Quote


while i do agree with a lot of the sentiment of this--i.e. i sometimes wish i didn't have to cut any amount of wood, that would be awesome!, its really not that crazy. i knocked out about 1/3rd of my annual wood needs in a semi, kinda, hardcore day of wood cutting/hauling yesterday.  a few more days of scouring the property for downed/standing dead trees, and the trees i selectively dropped a year ago, and ill be set.  there are definitely a lot of problems that come up with cold living, but fuel for heating is way down the list, at least for me.
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 10:57:55 PM EDT
[#22]
While I am personally allergic to snow I do envy your ability to just hang meat out side for half the year or better where I am I have to cook, dry, preserve, immediately 90% of the time.
I think a smart person can survive anywhere but it can get very expensive in some locales to prepare for SHTF
Link Posted: 10/8/2015 11:35:40 PM EDT
[#23]
another MNer checking in.

I built my suburban house specifically with disaster scenarios in mind. overall very energy efficient. typical furnace. in floor heat that could be run off a generator, wood burning fireplace. then I have backup options.  ETA: windows avoiding northern exposure/wind and maximizing sun exposure in the winter. large windows that could be used to provide growing space (where I start my seeds, which I suck at)

OPs point is valid. most of the population of any locale is not prepared for 3 days w/o electricity. If native americans and early settlers could thrive across the US there is only the need to understand how to adapt without modern conveniences. For instance in MN our growing season is short and winters are cold--food storage and heat are my primary considerations.

Could we experience major climate shifts? possibly, but in our current era the response to the dust bowl would be much different. For example-our state gov't is talking about giving money to resorts for loss of business due to shutting down walleye fishing on a popular lake. imagine what would happen if thousands of people were starving (or in modern area several ag firms with millions of acres of farmland weren't producing)

I suppose it boils down to living simply, efficiently, and recognizing the potential pitfalls in your location. same as it ever was. anyone who visits this particular forum should know this already.

Link Posted: 10/9/2015 3:28:49 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ferfal,

You are missing my point. I want the snow to limit mobility to help protect my family while a die off happens. I want the shtf in the winter.  It might save a lot of lives of prepared people.
View Quote


ok, but measuring the pros and cons, the tactical advantage of limiting an advance of hostiles or during a "die off" in a fully theorical situation, one that also must conveniently take place in winter vs the cons having to deal with it every year for months, end of the world or not. It just doesnt add up from a practical POV.
FerFAL
View Quote


What is the big deal? We live like this our whole lives. Not a major problem.
View Quote


oh dont get me wrong I'm not not criticizing, I'm looking at it from a purely practical perspective and trying to be as objective as possible. At the same time we like what we like and when someone says they like snow, they like colder climates, the kind of natural scenery, then that's all the reason you need. I give a ton of credit to just "liking" something. Having said all that theres some environments that are more demanding than others. I'm a pretty open minded guy an think its just as great a time to go skiing and freeze my ass or take a nap under a palmtree in the beach. One of the things I learned about myself (and people in general) durign my four years in Ireland is that you find people that like warm climates, you find people that like colder ones, but its almost impossible to find people that trully like DARK ones. It just isnt natural because we do physically need sunlight and just taking vitamin D is no replacement for that. In NI close to Belfast where I lived the mean year sunshine was about 1300 hours. Now in Malaga, Spain thats close 3000. Granted, I went from one of the worst weathers to arguably one of the top 10 climates in the world. Interestingly enough, when I lived in Boston I did like the weather, and you do have winters over there, but the thing is Boston has a LOT of sunshine in spite of the cold winters, about 2600 hours. That's double of what you have in Ireland and UK.
I think sunshine is one of the things that isnt mentioned as much but its important. Not just for solar power but for life, period.  
FerFAL
Link Posted: 10/9/2015 3:31:08 AM EDT
[#25]
erased -double click post
Link Posted: 10/9/2015 6:08:22 AM EDT
[#26]
Weather changes.  Adapting to it must change as well. We live on higher ground in snow country, about 10 miles from the closet gas station or grocery.  Looking at satellite images of our area shows where lakes and rivers were.  My guess is that someday the lakes will refill and the rivers will flow. Maybe there will be less snow.  

We take advantage of the fruit and vegetables that are grown in our area. In some cases, it's cheaper to buy and process for storage than to grow it.  We do keep a small 'salsa garden' for convenience.

30 miles from us is a medium size city ran by Demonazi Libtards that give away food and money to placate the losers that live there.  The colder weather helps keep the angry yoots inside so there is less crime.  With the race-baiting hatefulness of the No Lives Matter crowd, some of the the crime of home invasions and murders have creeped  to new records this summer. So now, we are starting to really enjoy winter.

I really don't have a point, other than preparing for eventualities for our area is what makes sense to us.
Link Posted: 10/9/2015 10:00:19 AM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:
the issue of snowmobiles was mentioned, and I would like to comment about it.

In a SHTF, Snowmageddon, etc. where a snowmobile would be the only way to move around (less those areas like the arrow head of MN where they don't plow roads in the winter and folks have more money in their snow machines than their trucks), your snowmobile serves ONLY 2 purposes: Bug out or get to the hospital (which is kind of a bug out). If things are that bad, the minimum wage employee isn't going to walk through the elements to get to the gas station that didn't get the fuel shipment, and the power is out anyway. Same thing with the Wal Mart. Not happening.


Getting supplies doesn't work on a snowmobile: they don't hold much. Pretty much what you can get on your person. Yes, the mountain machines have a cargo rack on the back, but the smart folks have fuel strapped to that. I used saddle bags, but by the time you get some emergency gear in those, they are about full. Sleds behind snowmobiles don't work well, and are prone to tipping. You won't be on nicely groomed trails, but pushing that machine to its limits on the drifts and terrain. Even evac to the hospital is iffy: no good way to bring a second person, much less injured unless you have a nice smooth way to get there and have them on a sled.


No, your typical snowmobile isn't the great snowpocolipse tool. A quad converted with tracks or a trail groomer, or other larger multi-track snow machine, yes. I have seen some VERY impressive youtube vids of these track attachments you drive your 1 ton pickup into and the wheel turn the tracks, and they go through some impressive shit. I have long wanted to convert an old bronco into a 4 track machine, just for shits and giggles, but in my area of MN, we don't get the snow anymore to justify it.
View Quote


Good post.  As someone who grew up in the frozen north around snowmobiles for ice fishing, trail riding and hunting I'll say that they are very maintenance intensive.  They were always breaking down and always getting stuck.
Link Posted: 10/9/2015 1:55:26 PM EDT
[#28]
yep,  I concede the modern heavy trail snowmobiles are not much good for trail breaking in deep snow.  They simply weigh too  much for their track foot print unless you have one set up for it like you said the mountain sleds and the old ski do utility sleds.  That said, getting to the hospital or down the hill to your local fire hall on a snowed in road is usually not that hard.  Been there done that in declared emergencies.

I had no intention to bug out on snowmobile with a pack and survival tools.  That also said, I have indeed gone winter camping in the coldest February and early March weather and had to tow gear on medium jet sleds and purpose built sleds that look like dog sleds.  You would likely tear up your drive belts in short order trying to break trail.  God forbid you have a track come apart.  I know how much gear you need to stay alive and be somewhat comfortable in harsh winter conditions.  Carrying it on your back is no good either.  As a young infantryman we got larger packs, tons of winter gear, and still had much support for chow, water, and hot coffee.

ETA- we generally have two types of trails here;  main corridor trails that are town roads or fire truck roads in the summer, capable of taking logging trucks in good weather.  They are wide in good order and have engineered slopes for wheeled vehicles.  The other type of trails are the lessor "destination" woods trails and they may be a camp road or they may be a narrow bushwacked trail through wood stands that are not always capable of two way traffic for their complete length.  They often will have greater grades too.  A few of these can even be narrow enough to be problematic with long track sleds let alone trailers.  

I suspect our trails, terrain, and snow fall coverage may vary from our MN friends.
Link Posted: 10/9/2015 2:31:45 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:


oh dont get me wrong I'm not not criticizing, I'm looking at it from a purely practical perspective and trying to be as objective as possible. At the same time we like what we like and when someone says they like snow, they like colder climates, the kind of natural scenery, then that's all the reason you need. I give a ton of credit to just "liking" something. Having said all that theres some environments that are more demanding than others. I'm a pretty open minded guy an think its just as great a time to go skiing and freeze my ass or take a nap under a palmtree in the beach. One of the things I learned about myself (and people in general) durign my four years in Ireland is that you find people that like warm climates, you find people that like colder ones, but its almost impossible to find people that trully like DARK ones. It just isnt natural because we do physically need sunlight and just taking vitamin D is no replacement for that. In NI close to Belfast where I lived the mean year sunshine was about 1300 hours. Now in Malaga, Spain thats close 3000. Granted, I went from one of the worst weathers to arguably one of the top 10 climates in the world. Interestingly enough, when I lived in Boston I did like the weather, and you do have winters over there, but the thing is Boston has a LOT of sunshine in spite of the cold winters, about 2600 hours. That's double of what you have in Ireland and UK.
I think sunshine is one of the things that isnt mentioned as much but its important. Not just for solar power but for life, period.  
FerFAL
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Quoted:
Ferfal,

You are missing my point. I want the snow to limit mobility to help protect my family while a die off happens. I want the shtf in the winter.  It might save a lot of lives of prepared people.


ok, but measuring the pros and cons, the tactical advantage of limiting an advance of hostiles or during a "die off" in a fully theorical situation, one that also must conveniently take place in winter vs the cons having to deal with it every year for months, end of the world or not. It just doesnt add up from a practical POV.
FerFAL


What is the big deal? We live like this our whole lives. Not a major problem.


oh dont get me wrong I'm not not criticizing, I'm looking at it from a purely practical perspective and trying to be as objective as possible. At the same time we like what we like and when someone says they like snow, they like colder climates, the kind of natural scenery, then that's all the reason you need. I give a ton of credit to just "liking" something. Having said all that theres some environments that are more demanding than others. I'm a pretty open minded guy an think its just as great a time to go skiing and freeze my ass or take a nap under a palmtree in the beach. One of the things I learned about myself (and people in general) durign my four years in Ireland is that you find people that like warm climates, you find people that like colder ones, but its almost impossible to find people that trully like DARK ones. It just isnt natural because we do physically need sunlight and just taking vitamin D is no replacement for that. In NI close to Belfast where I lived the mean year sunshine was about 1300 hours. Now in Malaga, Spain thats close 3000. Granted, I went from one of the worst weathers to arguably one of the top 10 climates in the world. Interestingly enough, when I lived in Boston I did like the weather, and you do have winters over there, but the thing is Boston has a LOT of sunshine in spite of the cold winters, about 2600 hours. That's double of what you have in Ireland and UK.
I think sunshine is one of the things that isnt mentioned as much but its important. Not just for solar power but for life, period.  
FerFAL




LOL


Link Posted: 10/9/2015 3:12:52 PM EDT
[#30]
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LOL


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Ferfal,

You are missing my point. I want the snow to limit mobility to help protect my family while a die off happens. I want the shtf in the winter.  It might save a lot of lives of prepared people.


ok, but measuring the pros and cons, the tactical advantage of limiting an advance of hostiles or during a "die off" in a fully theorical situation, one that also must conveniently take place in winter vs the cons having to deal with it every year for months, end of the world or not. It just doesnt add up from a practical POV.
FerFAL


What is the big deal? We live like this our whole lives. Not a major problem.


oh dont get me wrong I'm not not criticizing, I'm looking at it from a purely practical perspective and trying to be as objective as possible. At the same time we like what we like and when someone says they like snow, they like colder climates, the kind of natural scenery, then that's all the reason you need. I give a ton of credit to just "liking" something. Having said all that theres some environments that are more demanding than others. I'm a pretty open minded guy an think its just as great a time to go skiing and freeze my ass or take a nap under a palmtree in the beach. One of the things I learned about myself (and people in general) durign my four years in Ireland is that you find people that like warm climates, you find people that like colder ones, but its almost impossible to find people that trully like DARK ones. It just isnt natural because we do physically need sunlight and just taking vitamin D is no replacement for that. In NI close to Belfast where I lived the mean year sunshine was about 1300 hours. Now in Malaga, Spain thats close 3000. Granted, I went from one of the worst weathers to arguably one of the top 10 climates in the world. Interestingly enough, when I lived in Boston I did like the weather, and you do have winters over there, but the thing is Boston has a LOT of sunshine in spite of the cold winters, about 2600 hours. That's double of what you have in Ireland and UK.
I think sunshine is one of the things that isnt mentioned as much but its important. Not just for solar power but for life, period.  
FerFAL




LOL




Shhhhh......you'll wake him up from his private beach island hammock in the breeze nappy time....
He'll need his rest when the terro....I mean refugees come marching down the roads chanting "we want perfect weather ..not soup..."


Eta. On second thought that could be an issue for places like Spain once winter rolls around and the refugees are displaced from colder climates ....and they basically go nomadic following weather patterns to find that "perfect " place.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/10/2015 1:26:04 PM EDT
[#31]

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Quoted:
Weather changes.  Adapting to it must change as well. We live on higher ground in snow country, about 10 miles from the closet gas station or grocery.  Looking at satellite images of our area shows where lakes and rivers were.  My guess is that someday the lakes will refill and the rivers will flow. Maybe there will be less snow.  

We take advantage of the fruit and vegetables that are grown in our area. In some cases, it's cheaper to buy and process for storage than to grow it.  We do keep a small 'salsa garden' for convenience.

30 miles from us is a medium size city ran by Demonazi Libtards that give away food and money to placate the losers that live there.  The colder weather helps keep the angry yoots inside so there is less crime.  With the race-baiting hatefulness of the No Lives Matter crowd, some of the the crime of home invasions and murders have creeped  to new records this summer. So now, we are starting to really enjoy winter.

I really don't have a point, other than preparing for eventualities for our area is what makes sense to us.
View Quote

That’s one of the things that gets old too: Being indoors so much when weather sucks. I was chatting with Hunter223 about weather sucking so much and he said it doesn’t matter you wear a softshell… well, yes, you wear a softshell, or a proper rain jacket/windbreaker which I found more useful, but the thing is it eventually gets old. You can say screw it, dress properly and go hiking, walking biking in spite of the rain but after a few years of constantly putting up with it, it gets really old.
A neighbour told me that people basically stay indoors and don’t even talk much to one another until summer. He wasn’t kidding. When the weather isn’t very inviting its just natural to stay indoors more and that has a pretty big impact on how people go about their day.
Another factor would be that with better weather, if you’re ever forced to bug out on foot yourself its significantly easier as well, so I guess it works both ways. Having to bug out for whatever reason, or simply having a car accident or mechanical failure which I think is pretty common, it can be pretty different depending on the weather your working with and even more so if youre a good distance away from home.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 10/11/2015 5:07:37 AM EDT
[#32]
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The thing is, that's often accepted as a fact but it just not necessarily true. Its actually in very few cases where people are a problem, while in most of them more people means more help, and a key aspect is that more people means more and better infrastructure and faster response.

Ask yourself how often you have to worry about not freezing to death in cold climates vs hordes of desperate people causing problems. Heating with a few candles? Tell that to the folks here investing in quality wood stoves and spending days cutting, hauling, procesing, stacking, seasoning and moving firewood!
FerFAL
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Problem is, places with warm, easy climates also tend to have very high population density. And that's the worst possible thing for survival in a truly bad scenario.



The thing is, that's often accepted as a fact but it just not necessarily true. Its actually in very few cases where people are a problem, while in most of them more people means more help, and a key aspect is that more people means more and better infrastructure and faster response.

Much easier to mitigate the effects of extremely cold weather than the effects of hordes of desperate people. I've spent a few nights out in -30. With the right sleeping bag and clothes you survive even without a fire. If you build an energy efficient concrete home, maybe partially underground, you can darn near heat with a few candles. To me, the number one weather criteria is, "does it keep population density down"?


Ask yourself how often you have to worry about not freezing to death in cold climates vs hordes of desperate people causing problems. Heating with a few candles? Tell that to the folks here investing in quality wood stoves and spending days cutting, hauling, procesing, stacking, seasoning and moving firewood!
FerFAL



Actually, studying history shows it is without a doubt a fact that more population=more problems. I've read your experience, but the perspective of one man, experiencing a slow slide semi-collapse in what was a first world country does not offset millenia of observations. There is a reason that "run to the hills" has been the default instinct of mankind for many centuries. Furthermore, many "city people" have expressed that same opinion of "it's dangerous without others around", because they grew up that way and it feels comfortable. For those of us who grew up on farms and outside, we don't feel the need for that security blanket. Now, having a support network of people is crucial, whether in town or in the sticks. Mine currently consists of my parents (old time farmers), my best friend (a surgeon), myself, and a couple of co-workers (one of whom did 12 years as a Green Beret). I'd still like to add a few more people, but a network insulated from big crowds does a lot to enhance your chances.

As far as freezing to death, I haven't kept up with where you live now. I live in Fairbanks, AK. It doesn't get much colder than this in the winter. Because of my job, I've had to spend the night UNEXPECTEDLY out in -30. My statement stands, it's much easier to prepare in advance for cold weather than hordes of desperate people.
Link Posted: 10/11/2015 8:28:59 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:

Actually, studying history shows it is without a doubt a fact that more population=more problems.
View Quote

Sounds like you need to hit those books again. The city you live in yourself (Fairbanks, AK)  is the perfect example as of how less population does not always mean less violence and crime. Interestingly enough and related to my OP, in your case I think weather and sunshine hours are more of a factor.
If there’s one thing you can learn from history is that society has always been our greatest achievement. The first towns, the first cities, that’s where people strived, not the other way around. Some people don’t like admitting this but it’s irrefutable. The industrial revolution, with better industrial technology and greater urban development, translated into a growth in both total population and life expectancy that had never been seen before.
In today’s terms you find something similar. In general, more population means better standards of living and better life expectancy, while a typically dying town is one in which people are leaving, not arriving. Get small enough and you have a ghost town. Granted, some folks will sooner die than accept any of this but its exactly what you learn from objective study of history.

I've read your experience, but the perspective of one man, experiencing a slow slide semi-collapse in what was a first world country does not offset millenia of observations.

There is a reason that "run to the hills" has been the default instinct of mankind for many centuries.
View Quote

Your fallacy in this case is assuming that I somewhat focus only on my personal experience rather than study and research the topic thoroughly, which is what’ve been doing these last couple decades.

“Run to the hills” is the equivalent to run like ants once a rock blasted their nest. “Run to the hills” is basically an instinctive reaction of running away from danger, putting as much distance as possible from an already identified thread, hopefully finding cover and concealment from it. But here you fail to identify two crucial points 1) The “Run to the hills” instinct only kicks in once there’s a real, imminent threat, one from which your existing shelter provides no defense from (your house is being shelled by an invading military force for example, parallelism to a rock being thrown into an ant’s nest) 2) No creature lives in a permanent “run to the hills” state, that’s why it’s an instinctive reaction rather than a constant condition. Any person doing so permanently is clearly mentally unstable and has poor chances of survival, let alone any quality of life to speak of.
Furthermore, many "city people" have expressed that same opinion of "it's dangerous without others around", because they grew up that way and it feels comfortable.
View Quote

The good old argumentum ad hominem. “City People”, as in one homogenous group of individuals, all equally clueless and incapable. You said “many “city people”. How many would that be? Are these numbers you produced with your own research or did you find them elsewhere? How many of those have expressed the opinion you quoted ("it's dangerous without others around") or did you just make all that up? Maybe you didn’t realize what you were doing there but I’m pointing it out so that you see how you fabricated a situation to support your personal opinion.
On the other corner of the ring you have “country folk” (“those of us who grew up on farms and outside”). . Good ‘ol God fearing, Salt of the Earth people who are law abiding, productive members of society. While the archetypical “city people” is some drug addict lowlife living off welfare the archetypical “country people” isn’t some fat useless drunk that also lives off the government, but a 7’ chiselled Adonis that farms the land during the day in spite of MIT Physics Ph.D. and ten years as a Navy SEAL.
The reality is that people are a lot more alike than that, you find all sorts of people and both good and bad in either place. To be completely honest, if I have to say one or the other, I’ve come across more ignorant, lazy people in the country than in the city.
For those of us who grew up on farms and outside, we don't feel the need for that security blanket.
View Quote

Gotcha, so farmers don’t receive billons in subsidies each year from the U.S. government. Oh wait… they do! This is another topic you clearly need to study more.
By the way, your State, Alaska, “Alaska has highest rate of welfare recipients in the U.S.”, and I’m quoting Alaska Dispatch News.
http://www.adn.com/article/20140903/alaska-has-highest-rate-welfare-recipients-us-census-says


Now, having a support network of people is crucial, whether in town or in the sticks. Mine currently consists of my parents (old time farmers), my best friend (a surgeon), myself, and a couple of co-workers (one of whom did 12 years as a Green Beret). I'd still like to add a few more people, but a network insulated from big crowds does a lot to enhance your chances.
As far as freezing to death, I haven't kept up with where you live now. I live in Fairbanks, AK. It doesn't get much colder than this in the winter. Because of my job, I've had to spend the night UNEXPECTEDLY out in -30. My statement stands, it's much easier to prepare in advance for cold weather than hordes of desperate people.
.
View Quote

We sure agree on having the network of people around you although its not for “insulation” from big crowds, but to help out and aid one another when times get tough.

The thing is you’ll never see these hordes of desperate people. The chance of getting killed by hordes of desperate people in any developed country (and most undeveloped ones) are practically nil while freezing to death if you don’t have proper shelter is a fact where you live almost year round.  
In spite of the small size of your city, you happen to live in the 3rd worst U.S. city in terms of rape and crime is also very bad in that area in spite of all the freedom loving country folk you have around you.
Crime
Rape

Fairbanks ranks as the third most dangerous U.S. city for women with a rate of rape more than double the national average.[78]
Statistics

Fairbanks has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes. Compared to communities of similar population, its crime rate (violent and property crimes combined) is higher than average even within Alaska. [79]
2010 Crime Statistics Per 100,000 People[80] Crime Types U.S. AK Fairbanks
Violent Crime                                                                     405 639 789
Murder                                                                                  5 4 300
Forcible Rape                                                                         28 75 195
Robbery                                                                               119 84 92
Aggravated Assault                                                         253 476 503
Property Crime                                                        2,946 2,853 3,798
Burglary                                                                                701 437 414
Larceny Theft                                                               2,006 2,187 3,104
Motor Vehicle Theft                                                   239 228 281
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairbanks,_Alaska#Crime

FerFAL
Link Posted: 10/11/2015 8:51:27 AM EDT
[#34]
Damn edumahhcated city slickers and dem factoids they like to spout off.
Martha !!!! Get me a beer one of them fancy mexican ones...



Aint nuthin like a good modelo and sittin down to some learnin'.....













"""""which is what’ve been doing these last couple decades.....""""




Says the man who would have been legal to in drink in the US only a "decade"ago...lol

Lets see if my country bumpkin self can do the math..



"Couple" is more that one..well say two. Since it could mean three. But at three youd be what 3-5..and four would make you ...well..a tadpole to be polite about it.



So well stick with two. So between 9-12 youve been on the ball on this whole subject.



No wonder your such the subject matter expert compared to us all.










Inflate that ego much lol

















Off to farm some dirt.....










 

 
Link Posted: 10/11/2015 9:06:44 AM EDT
[#35]
I do all my best hiking when the temperature is below 10 degrees.
Link Posted: 10/11/2015 9:06:58 AM EDT
[#36]
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That’s one of the things that gets old too: Being indoors so much when weather sucks. I was chatting with Hunter223 about weather sucking so much and he said it doesn’t matter you wear a softshell… well, yes, you wear a softshell, or a proper rain jacket/windbreaker which I found more useful, but the thing is it eventually gets old. You can say screw it, dress properly and go hiking, walking biking in spite of the rain but after a few years of constantly putting up with it, it gets really old.
A neighbour told me that people basically stay indoors and don’t even talk much to one another until summer. He wasn’t kidding. When the weather isn’t very inviting its just natural to stay indoors more and that has a pretty big impact on how people go about their day.
Another factor would be that with better weather, if you’re ever forced to bug out on foot yourself its significantly easier as well, so I guess it works both ways. Having to bug out for whatever reason, or simply having a car accident or mechanical failure which I think is pretty common, it can be pretty different depending on the weather your working with and even more so if youre a good distance away from home.
FerFAL
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Weather changes.  Adapting to it must change as well. We live on higher ground in snow country, about 10 miles from the closet gas station or grocery.  Looking at satellite images of our area shows where lakes and rivers were.  My guess is that someday the lakes will refill and the rivers will flow. Maybe there will be less snow.  

We take advantage of the fruit and vegetables that are grown in our area. In some cases, it's cheaper to buy and process for storage than to grow it.  We do keep a small 'salsa garden' for convenience.

30 miles from us is a medium size city ran by Demonazi Libtards that give away food and money to placate the losers that live there.  The colder weather helps keep the angry yoots inside so there is less crime.  With the race-baiting hatefulness of the No Lives Matter crowd, some of the the crime of home invasions and murders have creeped  to new records this summer. So now, we are starting to really enjoy winter.

I really don't have a point, other than preparing for eventualities for our area is what makes sense to us.

That’s one of the things that gets old too: Being indoors so much when weather sucks. I was chatting with Hunter223 about weather sucking so much and he said it doesn’t matter you wear a softshell… well, yes, you wear a softshell, or a proper rain jacket/windbreaker which I found more useful, but the thing is it eventually gets old. You can say screw it, dress properly and go hiking, walking biking in spite of the rain but after a few years of constantly putting up with it, it gets really old.
A neighbour told me that people basically stay indoors and don’t even talk much to one another until summer. He wasn’t kidding. When the weather isn’t very inviting its just natural to stay indoors more and that has a pretty big impact on how people go about their day.
Another factor would be that with better weather, if you’re ever forced to bug out on foot yourself its significantly easier as well, so I guess it works both ways. Having to bug out for whatever reason, or simply having a car accident or mechanical failure which I think is pretty common, it can be pretty different depending on the weather your working with and even more so if youre a good distance away from home.
FerFAL

We added a 20x100 sunroom / greenhouse with a 22ft ceiling to the BOL that is always nice no matter the weather for hanging out and gardening etc.
Link Posted: 10/11/2015 9:29:30 AM EDT
[#37]
"Old Hank, he said it all when he said: Country folks can survive!"





Link Posted: 10/11/2015 9:37:03 AM EDT
[#38]
Farmers getting subsidies is a very new thing. We farmed without such safety nets.



I don't understand how you are dumping on farmers just because some of them get subsidies. City folks....







Maybe your right, we should all abandon any areas with less than tropical weather, and everybody move down south into densely packed cities and try to fend off malaria together. That way we all survive in our megacities and never stray out into the "cursed earth". We can eat recycled food. It's good for the environment and OK for you.
Link Posted: 10/11/2015 9:49:00 AM EDT
[#39]
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Farmers getting subsidies is a very new thing. We farmed without such safety nets.

I don't understand how you are dumping on farmers just because some of them get subsidies. City folks....




Maybe your right, we should all abandon any areas with less than tropical weather, and everybody move down south into densely packed cities and try to fend off malaria together. That way we all survive in our megacities and never stray out into the "cursed earth". We can eat recycled food. It's good for the environment and OK for you.
View Quote



Dumping on farmers?

Where are you getting this?

All he is doing is successfully skewering the mythology many of you have created about the world around you. He didn't even touch on the meth production, food stamps, and disability abuse common in many rural areas.

Link Posted: 10/11/2015 10:10:27 AM EDT
[#40]
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I do all my best hiking when the temperature is below 10 degrees.
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I do all my best hiking when the temperature is below 10 degrees.

Depends on what you call best, I'm sure you enjoy the heck out of it! But if you had to do it for need rather than fun those temps,snow, extra gear needed because of those two, etc,  would slow you down a great deal.
Quoted:
Farmers getting subsidies is a very new thing. We farmed without such safety nets.

I don't understand how you are dumping on farmers just because some of them get subsidies. City folks....




Maybe your right, we should all abandon any areas with less than tropical weather, and everybody move down south into densely packed cities and try to fend off malaria together. That way we all survive in our megacities and never stray out into the "cursed earth". We can eat recycled food. It's good for the environment and OK for you.

Dont be so dramatic, no ones suggesting any of that. I was pointing out that farms are not this utopia that evil city folks live off and that certain climates are more benign than others.Oh, watched Judge Dredd just  two days ago with my kids. (densly pakced cities where the only place where people survived there as well)
FerFAL
Link Posted: 10/11/2015 11:11:53 AM EDT
[#41]
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Quoted:



Dumping on farmers?

Where are you getting this?

All he is doing is successfully skewering the mythology many of you have created about the world around you. He didn't even touch on the meth production, food stamps, and disability abuse common in many rural areas.

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Quoted:
Quoted:
Farmers getting subsidies is a very new thing. We farmed without such safety nets.

I don't understand how you are dumping on farmers just because some of them get subsidies. City folks....




Maybe your right, we should all abandon any areas with less than tropical weather, and everybody move down south into densely packed cities and try to fend off malaria together. That way we all survive in our megacities and never stray out into the "cursed earth". We can eat recycled food. It's good for the environment and OK for you.



Dumping on farmers?

Where are you getting this?

All he is doing is successfully skewering the mythology many of you have created about the world around you. He didn't even touch on the meth production, food stamps, and disability abuse common in many rural areas.




Population 150k x% on the tit
Vs
Population 5k y% on the tit.

Got it....
Damn that pesky math...





Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/11/2015 12:33:20 PM EDT
[#42]
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Actually, studying history shows it is without a doubt a fact that more population=more problems. I've read your experience, but the perspective of one man, experiencing a slow slide semi-collapse in what was a first world country does not offset millenia of observations. There is a reason that "run to the hills" has been the default instinct of mankind for many centuries. Furthermore, many "city people" have expressed that same opinion of "it's dangerous without others around", because they grew up that way and it feels comfortable. For those of us who grew up on farms and outside, we don't feel the need for that security blanket. Now, having a support network of people is crucial, whether in town or in the sticks. Mine currently consists of my parents (old time farmers), my best friend (a surgeon), myself, and a couple of co-workers (one of whom did 12 years as a Green Beret). I'd still like to add a few more people, but a network insulated from big crowds does a lot to enhance your chances.

As far as freezing to death, I haven't kept up with where you live now. I live in Fairbanks, AK. It doesn't get much colder than this in the winter. Because of my job, I've had to spend the night UNEXPECTEDLY out in -30. My statement stands, it's much easier to prepare in advance for cold weather than hordes of desperate people.
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Problem is, places with warm, easy climates also tend to have very high population density. And that's the worst possible thing for survival in a truly bad scenario.



The thing is, that's often accepted as a fact but it just not necessarily true. Its actually in very few cases where people are a problem, while in most of them more people means more help, and a key aspect is that more people means more and better infrastructure and faster response.

Much easier to mitigate the effects of extremely cold weather than the effects of hordes of desperate people. I've spent a few nights out in -30. With the right sleeping bag and clothes you survive even without a fire. If you build an energy efficient concrete home, maybe partially underground, you can darn near heat with a few candles. To me, the number one weather criteria is, "does it keep population density down"?


Ask yourself how often you have to worry about not freezing to death in cold climates vs hordes of desperate people causing problems. Heating with a few candles? Tell that to the folks here investing in quality wood stoves and spending days cutting, hauling, procesing, stacking, seasoning and moving firewood!
FerFAL



Actually, studying history shows it is without a doubt a fact that more population=more problems. I've read your experience, but the perspective of one man, experiencing a slow slide semi-collapse in what was a first world country does not offset millenia of observations. There is a reason that "run to the hills" has been the default instinct of mankind for many centuries. Furthermore, many "city people" have expressed that same opinion of "it's dangerous without others around", because they grew up that way and it feels comfortable. For those of us who grew up on farms and outside, we don't feel the need for that security blanket. Now, having a support network of people is crucial, whether in town or in the sticks. Mine currently consists of my parents (old time farmers), my best friend (a surgeon), myself, and a couple of co-workers (one of whom did 12 years as a Green Beret). I'd still like to add a few more people, but a network insulated from big crowds does a lot to enhance your chances.

As far as freezing to death, I haven't kept up with where you live now. I live in Fairbanks, AK. It doesn't get much colder than this in the winter. Because of my job, I've had to spend the night UNEXPECTEDLY out in -30. My statement stands, it's much easier to prepare in advance for cold weather than hordes of desperate people.




"For those of us who grew up on farms and outside, we don't feel the need for that security blanket. "


Look at all the 'country' folks who 'need' certain fuel additives...

With out a whit of understanding of anything about them, what's in them, ---or not, what they did or now do, and little understanding of physics or chemistry, etc.,----other than 'they worked' for them...

When their fuel would have prolly worked the same [better ?] w/out them...





Link Posted: 10/11/2015 12:36:41 PM EDT
[#43]
[Deleted]
Link Posted: 10/11/2015 3:06:35 PM EDT
[#44]
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I do all my best hiking when the temperature is below 10 degrees.
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I also enjoy "winter" hiking. Mainly you have everything to yourself plus when properly prepared you get a lot of good exercise. I go with gear since you don't know what will happen out there and you might have to spend the night (I do the same for spring/summer and fall hiking), vs. just for enjoyment.

If you're not prepared to operate in winter conditions (based on your AOPs) you're not really prepared.
Link Posted: 10/11/2015 5:50:11 PM EDT
[#45]
[Deleted]

In and spanked BTL (IASBTL)
Link Posted: 10/11/2015 6:04:23 PM EDT
[#46]
Let's keep GD in GD.

I sense a lot of "stop liking what I don't like" going on here.

For me I clearly see some people are set up to make it through the harsh weather in the frozen north. (Yes, I have lived most of my life where you get actual winter)
Others have adapted to warmer climates.
Good work for both groups; there are clear advantages and disadvantages to both.
Link Posted: 10/11/2015 7:52:48 PM EDT
[#47]

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That's why it rocks to be in areas where there's no ice storms, no tornados, huricanes, no floods, practically no winters and not awfully hot summers.



FerFAL

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I think the linchpin is electricity.  Once you lose that you are back to 1890 existence.   Doesn't matter what causes the loss of it, system failure, ice storms, tornados, floods.

If you're not at least ready to ride out a month of no electricity then you haven't thought about it enough.  



That's why it rocks to be in areas where there's no ice storms, no tornados, huricanes, no floods, practically no winters and not awfully hot summers.



FerFAL

So where is this place?



 
Link Posted: 10/12/2015 2:06:32 AM EDT
[#48]
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Ask yourself how often you have to worry about not freezing to death in cold climates vs hordes of desperate people causing problems. Heating with a few candles? Tell that to the folks here investing in quality wood stoves and spending days cutting, hauling, procesing, stacking, seasoning and moving firewood!
FerFAL
View Quote


It varies depending on where you're talking about.  Densely populated areas in the US, for example, are almost always either bad neighborhoods with crime problems or are adjacent to them.

Not freezing to death isn't all that hard.   Keeping people from stealing your stuff in densely populated areas while still trying to hold down a regular job is, even when you're not in the middle of an emergency.
Link Posted: 10/12/2015 3:47:48 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It varies depending on where you're talking about.  Densely populated areas in the US, for example, are almost always either bad neighborhoods with crime problems or are adjacent to them.

Not freezing to death isn't all that hard.   Keeping people from stealing your stuff in densely populated areas while still trying to hold down a regular job is, even when you're not in the middle of an emergency.
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Quoted:
Ask yourself how often you have to worry about not freezing to death in cold climates vs hordes of desperate people causing problems. Heating with a few candles? Tell that to the folks here investing in quality wood stoves and spending days cutting, hauling, procesing, stacking, seasoning and moving firewood!
FerFAL


It varies depending on where you're talking about.  Densely populated areas in the US, for example, are almost always either bad neighborhoods with crime problems or are adjacent to them.

Not freezing to death isn't all that hard.   Keeping people from stealing your stuff in densely populated areas while still trying to hold down a regular job is, even when you're not in the middle of an emergency.



How do you define densely populated?
Link Posted: 10/12/2015 5:17:49 AM EDT
[#50]
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So where is this place?
 
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I think the linchpin is electricity.  Once you lose that you are back to 1890 existence.   Doesn't matter what causes the loss of it, system failure, ice storms, tornados, floods.
If you're not at least ready to ride out a month of no electricity then you haven't thought about it enough.  

That's why it rocks to be in areas where there's no ice storms, no tornados, huricanes, no floods, practically no winters and not awfully hot summers.

FerFAL
So where is this place?
 

Currently I'm in a town in the south of Spain, between Malaga and Marbella 300 yards from th beach. No place is perfect but yes, the weather here simply cant be any better. Almost boringly nice year round. Even in a nice winter day you can go to the beach. Rains just enough, maybe 4 days of tropical rain so as to keep it from being too dry. A quick tropical shower.  Usually ranks among the top 10 best climates in the world. The Mediterranean Sea helps keeping temps stable.

FerFAL
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