Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Posted: 7/30/2015 5:56:10 PM EDT

Is it ever justifiable to go into debt to buy a BOL?  

I have an opportunity to buy 28 acres, a nice house. 2 creeks. 1/2 pasture that is usually in hay, 1/2 in forest.   Out in the country, but has some neighbors not too far.  About 15 minutes from my job in a small town.  About 1.5 hours from family.   Price about 190K, before talking them down.    (as far as land goes, that is a fair price with the house, in my area)    

Land is always on the rise here, and I'm sure it is a good investment to have farmland.    I'd probably be able to pay off the 20 year loan in 10 years (or less if I really step on it)  

I should preface this by saying I already have some small acreage that is paid for, that my parents live on when they are around (my current BOL) - and have another house I am paying on (that would be sold if I buy this new property.

Just asking in general terms.  What are the thoughts of the SF?
Link Posted: 7/30/2015 6:00:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:

Is it ever justifiable to go into debt to buy a BOL?  

I have an opportunity to buy 28 acres, a nice house. 2 creeks. 1/2 pasture that is usually in hay, 1/2 in forest.   Out in the country, but has some neighbors not too far.  About 15 minutes from my job in a small town.  About 1.5 hours from family.   Price about 190K, before talking them down.    (as far as land goes, that is a fair price with the house, in my area)    

Land is always on the rise here, and I'm sure it is a good investment to have farmland.    I'd probably be able to pay off the 20 year loan in 10 years (or less if I really step on it)  

I should preface this by saying I already have some small acreage that is paid for, that my parents live on when they are around (my current BOL) - and have another house I am paying on (that would be sold if I buy this new property.

Just asking in general terms.  What are the thoughts of the SF?
View Quote



A few tillable acres might not be much of a good investment as -farmland.


From the little we know abt your income and finances, if you live there, probably OK.

If you are just adding it to your portfolio, needs some tough thinking, as you are doing.

Maybe wait until the economy sags -maybe in a year or so, and pick up a lot cheaper -if the Seller is motivated. You need to know more abt the Seller's situation and motivations.


Link Posted: 7/30/2015 7:48:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Around here everyone is looking for a country getaway. If your interest rate is low, an you can afford the payments, hell yes go for it! I bought 28 acres of timberground just about 8 years before I retired, and it was best decision I ever made!
Land usually gains value. If it drops, it's only a short term drop. It's just like money in the bank..................  
Link Posted: 7/30/2015 7:54:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Land prices are a bit more nuts around here Omegaman, but for the most part I agree with you on non-tillable land in this area.

My wife and I are waiting for prices to back off with the projected decline in farm income over the near future, but we are on that bandwagon of "get a place in the country."
Link Posted: 7/30/2015 8:01:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for the replies.  I should mention that the area I am in has ever increasing land prices.  Everything is growing around here.   Farm land is harder to get of course as it is usually in use.    This house has about 15 acres in pasture/hay and then woods for the rest, lots of woods around it also.  Lots of cow pastures in the other direction.  

I really hate debt, but am of the belief that debt can be used as a tool.  Opportunities are not always available especially that much acreage, this close to work and church and family.  It would really make a good BOL and small farm.  

Not decided to splurge though.  
Link Posted: 7/30/2015 9:54:03 PM EDT
[#5]
That sounds real nice.

I hope to get something like that one day
Link Posted: 7/30/2015 11:35:06 PM EDT
[#6]
I'd go for it if you can swing it financially.



Everybody wants a hobby farm, and in the future when your neighbors close in, you will get premium for that many acres from some rich doctor or lawywer. Just make sure you have it setup for horses, and then drool as they write a big ass check.




We are looking at land ourselves. Right now we own our home free and clear, but we want to get into something in the 20+ acre arena. We are willing to get a mortgage for it, and we will rent our current paid for home. If things go bad for us, we can not renew the renter's lease and move back to our little property. The rent would actually pay for the mortgage on the new house.
Link Posted: 7/31/2015 12:00:28 AM EDT
[#7]
I'm sure many will only tell you to buy it outright, but for some of us that's not possible.  I don't see any issue with financing a large purchase.  If you can pay off the  mortgage faster...will save you thousands in interest.
Link Posted: 7/31/2015 1:15:54 AM EDT
[#8]
I purchased 23 acres of undeveloped land last winter using a mortgage. I generally don't like the idea of going into debt for something like that, but the numbers made sense to me in this case. I owe less than a decent new car costs, on a 20 year loan. I've been making the minimum payment while saving up what I can to pay off the entire loan as soon as I'm able, but until I can pay it off, I'd rather have the cash on hand in case of a personal SHTF.
 
Link Posted: 7/31/2015 2:30:02 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I purchased 23 acres of undeveloped land last winter using a mortgage. I generally don't like the idea of going into debt for something like that, but the numbers made sense to me in this case. I owe less than a decent new car costs, on a 20 year loan. I've been making the minimum payment while saving up what I can to pay off the entire loan as soon as I'm able, but until I can pay it off, I'd rather have the cash on hand in case of a personal SHTF.


 
View Quote



Exactly


Link Posted: 7/31/2015 4:36:31 AM EDT
[#10]
The house you would sell - have you lived in it the two years out of the last five required to avoid capital gains tax?


Nothing wrong with debt to buy land,the shorter the term of the loan the better. And if it is in a good location for your life sounds perfect. What's the catch?
Link Posted: 7/31/2015 5:13:29 AM EDT
[#11]
Others have already given good advice, and it really depends on your finances, etc.  So I'll just say that moving from a medium-sized city out to our middle-of-nowhere mini-farm (10 acres) was the best thing we ever did.
Link Posted: 7/31/2015 7:32:52 AM EDT
[#12]
You also have to account for all the new fees and costs in purchasing that weren't there back a few years.

If you are financing just the value of the land you might be ok. But if you are financing everything into it than you go into it  being upside down.

Similar to a car purchase, people finance in the tax tag title and other fees and then wonder why they owe more on the car than it's worth.

Run the numbers:

Insurance?
Yearly property taxes?
Improvements needed?
How much down payment VS value of land?

If your first 36 months keeps the land above the appraised value and you wouldn't be able to sell and get it back out, it might be better to wait until you have a bigger down payment. Or look for a more affordable location.

I am debt free but at times I had mortgages..... Every single one of them was weighed against can I sell it from day one and get my money back out quickly if needed. By looking at it that way I made a profit on every home I have ever sold.

Now that I own my home outright I can see how much that debt held me back. But at times it can be neccassary.

Link Posted: 7/31/2015 7:57:35 AM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 7/31/2015 9:03:31 AM EDT
[#14]
My question would be what would be the survival advantage if as you say you already have a BOL.

Never going into debt for land or houses on our BOL was one of the best single decisions I ever made. Houses can be added on to, money can be saved up for further land purchases, etc. We went though a few years that if we had had some crazy mortgage, we might have been worse off than just eating a lot of rice and beans....
Link Posted: 7/31/2015 10:57:40 AM EDT
[#15]
IMO house/land prices are generally too high right now.  Consider what the price would be if interest rates rose to, say, 8-9% on a 30yr fixed.  In my area land prices are 5-10 times higher than they were fifteen years ago.  Yes, land prices go up, but when I look at something going that high, that fast, I wonder if the bottom is going to fall out.
Link Posted: 7/31/2015 12:00:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My question would be what would be the survival advantage if as you say you already have a BOL.

Never going into debt for land or houses on our BOL was one of the best single decisions I ever made. Houses can be added on to, money can be saved up for further land purchases, etc. We went though a few years that if we had had some crazy mortgage, we might have been worse off than just eating a lot of rice and beans....
View Quote

If OP is planning on living there full time, there's something to be said for living the life.  My own "survival skills" are based more on living more self-reliantly (and frugally) all the time, a way of life, than on being able to switch some kind of "survival mode" switch on and off at will.

Every power-zapping ice storm, every sick kid in the middle of the night with the nearest hospital an hour away, every chicken lost to coons and every onion lost to rot is a real, hands-on lesson in survival, slowly honing skills that could be needed if and when the wheels actually do come totally off the bus.
Link Posted: 7/31/2015 12:38:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My question would be what would be the survival advantage if as you say you already have a BOL.

Never going into debt for land or houses on our BOL was one of the best single decisions I ever made. Houses can be added on to, money can be saved up for further land purchases, etc. We went though a few years that if we had had some crazy mortgage, we might have been worse off than just eating a lot of rice and beans....
View Quote



Good question.   Basically my current BOL is about 1.5 hours from the area where I work and live now.  I'm not terribly worried about making it there OK, but it would be nice to live at your BOL, so you can develop it.  When you get home from work and are tired, you are much more likely to go work outside for an hour or 2, than drive a 3 hour round trip to get some stuff done.  It is just a lot more convenient for me.  

My current BOL is 4 acres, 2 clear, 2 with woods and a creek.  When I lived there (moved b/c of school and job), I kept it nice and had a garden/berries/fruit trees, etc, etc, but it is really hard to keep all that going when I'm not there regularly.

I have no plans to ever sell my current BOL.  It is a great location as far as family and gives me an extra location I could go to if I ever needed it, plus I have so many family memories there, it would be very hard to sell.

Link Posted: 7/31/2015 12:40:11 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

If OP is planning on living there full time, there's something to be said for living the life.  My own "survival skills" are based more on living more self-reliantly (and frugally) all the time, a way of life, than on being able to switch some kind of "survival mode" switch on and off at will.

Every power-zapping ice storm, every sick kid in the middle of the night with the nearest hospital an hour away, every chicken lost to coons and every onion lost to rot is a real, hands-on lesson in survival, slowly honing skills that could be needed if and when the wheels actually do come totally off the bus.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
My question would be what would be the survival advantage if as you say you already have a BOL.

Never going into debt for land or houses on our BOL was one of the best single decisions I ever made. Houses can be added on to, money can be saved up for further land purchases, etc. We went though a few years that if we had had some crazy mortgage, we might have been worse off than just eating a lot of rice and beans....

If OP is planning on living there full time, there's something to be said for living the life.  My own "survival skills" are based more on living more self-reliantly (and frugally) all the time, a way of life, than on being able to switch some kind of "survival mode" switch on and off at will.

Every power-zapping ice storm, every sick kid in the middle of the night with the nearest hospital an hour away, every chicken lost to coons and every onion lost to rot is a real, hands-on lesson in survival, slowly honing skills that could be needed if and when the wheels actually do come totally off the bus.


Kind of my thinking also.  The experience is worth it to me.  

I hate being in debt though, so that is the hard part of the decision.
Link Posted: 7/31/2015 1:32:17 PM EDT
[#19]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





If OP is planning on living there full time, there's something to be said for living the life.  My own "survival skills" are based more on living more self-reliantly (and frugally) all the time, a way of life, than on being able to switch some kind of "survival mode" switch on and off at will.



Every power-zapping ice storm, every sick kid in the middle of the night with the nearest hospital an hour away, every chicken lost to coons and every onion lost to rot is a real, hands-on lesson in survival, slowly honing skills that could be needed if and when the wheels actually do come totally off the bus.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

My question would be what would be the survival advantage if as you say you already have a BOL.



Never going into debt for land or houses on our BOL was one of the best single decisions I ever made. Houses can be added on to, money can be saved up for further land purchases, etc. We went though a few years that if we had had some crazy mortgage, we might have been worse off than just eating a lot of rice and beans....


If OP is planning on living there full time, there's something to be said for living the life.  My own "survival skills" are based more on living more self-reliantly (and frugally) all the time, a way of life, than on being able to switch some kind of "survival mode" switch on and off at will.



Every power-zapping ice storm, every sick kid in the middle of the night with the nearest hospital an hour away, every chicken lost to coons and every onion lost to rot is a real, hands-on lesson in survival, slowly honing skills that could be needed if and when the wheels actually do come totally off the bus.
Where is the like button??

 



I could not say it any better myself. Having critters, having a garden, having tools, having WORKING knowledge and using it every day is critical. Its all the little things that have to be ironed out over time.




If S ever hits the F for real and everybody flees the city and goes to their camper clad BOL with their trailer of mountain house in tow and survival seed bank in the passenger seat, most of them will die of starvation.
Link Posted: 7/31/2015 10:00:24 PM EDT
[#20]
OK, thanks for the clarification.

I read it like you were living at your BOL ALREADY but wanted to move to ANOTHER BOL, that's what didn't make sense.

Yeah, boots on the ground trumps "plans and research" any old day of the year. Pushing 16 years boots on the ground here and the experience is definitely what makes it or breaks it.

Lowdown3
Link Posted: 7/31/2015 10:14:25 PM EDT
[#21]
I did. (Shrug) I didn't have $20k plus laying around otherwise. It will be paid off in 27 months. Took a 5-year loan so we are over half way to it being paid off.
Link Posted: 8/1/2015 10:23:00 AM EDT
[#22]
I hate getting into debt, but if that land may be used for agriculture, then go for it.  Food never goes out of style.
Link Posted: 8/1/2015 10:45:59 PM EDT
[#23]
2 creeks? How much elevation between the house and the creeks, and how big is each one's watershed? Big thing to consider. It's amazing how many houses are built in flood plains.

It's not much of a BOL if it's underwater. Having a good perennial stream nearby is important for SHTF, but you don't want it too close.

If either watershed has lots of new development, development = concrete and pavement and other impermeable surfaces. This in turn means increased runoff during storms, which means what used to be your 100-year flood plain is now, say, a 25-year flood plain.

I'm seeing this a lot in TX nowadays, where the rate of population growth is a real bummer.
Link Posted: 8/3/2015 11:17:16 PM EDT
[#24]
if you really want it... id go for it.  you can save for years, only to drop dead before you get it....

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I hate getting into debt, but if that land may be used for agriculture, then go for it.  Food never goes out of style.
View Quote

Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top