User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 3:40:57 AM EDT
[#1]
This is my primary SHTF rifle. My secondary is a 14.5" BCM BHF upper with a URX3 and a Comp M4S. Both are 5.56.
This is all I have to say to the people stuck with the KISS concept: 
Along with a solar charger. Good for over 2000 charges. I've got RCR123As, too. There's literally no good argument to not have a modernized rifle, other than "I am too nostalgic for my own good." I don't care if it hurts your feelings, it's the truth, optics have come a LONG way in the last 20 years. For Christ's sake, ACOGs don't require batteries, and are as durable as the rifle they're mounted on. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 6:14:24 AM EDT
[#2]
Here is my go to...My version of a CQBR...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 6:47:53 AM EDT
[#3]
SKS for the entire family and a few friends.
762x39 works for us. Just introduced a WASR-10 to the fold. (Also 762x39) I will pick up the AR-15's from the ground as needed. 
RW3 |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 8:25:00 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SKS for the entire family and a few friends. 762x39 works for us. Just introduced a WASR-10 to the fold. (Also 762x39) I will pick up the AR-15's from the ground as needed. RW3  |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 9:04:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SKS for the entire family and a few friends. 762x39 works for us. Just introduced a WASR-10 to the fold. (Also 762x39) I will pick up the AR-15's from the ground as needed.
RW3 You'd last, what, a few days? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 9:10:01 AM EDT
[#6]
My carry handle SHTF rifle before I wised up and decided to run some sort of optic:
 Then I wanted something more tactile. A stock DD M4V5 with battlecomp, fixed stock, and a comp m4. Wanted flip up buis too:  Now I want a bit of magnification and decided on an Acog. The KMR helped me save some weight too. Maintained the BUiS just in case:  |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 10:24:39 AM EDT
[#7]
My SHTF carbine is an Arsenal SLR-107fr with T1 and weapon light.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 10:58:30 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SKS for the entire family and a few friends. 762x39 works for us. Just introduced a WASR-10 to the fold. (Also 762x39) I will pick up the AR-15's from the ground as needed.
RW3 Good to see you're still around. Haven't seen you posting much at all lately! |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 11:00:37 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'd last, what, a few days? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SKS for the entire family and a few friends. 762x39 works for us. Just introduced a WASR-10 to the fold. (Also 762x39) I will pick up the AR-15's from the ground as needed.
RW3 You'd last, what, a few days? I'd expect a bit longer in his AOR. He hosts and participates in a site sponsors carbine course more often than most of us. While I'd never want anything but an AR I'd say a group of trained people with SKS's and decent tactics would hold their own... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 12:21:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SHTF I'm all about Scout tactics. Light, fast, avoid a fight and if I come under direct contact high volume of fire. I choose the 5.56 because its lighter and I can get more rounds on target faster. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 1:00:32 PM EDT
[#11]
whatever the dead guy was carrying
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 1:14:23 PM EDT
[#12]
I WILL go quietly into the night.........until it's time to make noise.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 5:05:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryMine looks like this - just without the suppressor. I'm also putting a basic one together in OD green. I've got one daughter living with me, and I want to have at least two rifles, two shotguns, and one pistol. (She likes the AR and wants a pistol of her own too. She's not a real 12 gauge fan  )
Any suppressor suggestions? I guess I could do a search, duh. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 5:38:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Mine at the moment is an mil-spec A4 with upgraded CS springs, a skinny front sight post, and a bottle of Slip 2000 in the pistol grip.
I am building a designated SHTF/abusable rifle with a 20 inch barrel, VLTOR A5 system, BCM BCG coated in NP3 Plus from Robar, and other probably unnecessary things. But when finished it will have the most corrosion resistance and longer effective range of most other people's ARs. 5.56 is largely a velocity dependent cartridge, speed is your friend. It also gives me more confidence in M193 and M855 in addition to my "fancy" loadings. (MK318, MK262, TSX, Etc). 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 6:29:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mine at the moment is an mil-spec A4 with upgraded CS springs, a skinny front sight post, and a bottle of Slip 2000 in the pistol grip. I am building a designated SHTF/abusable rifle with a 20 inch barrel, VLTOR A5 system, BCM BCG coated in NP3 Plus from Robar, and other probably unnecessary things. But when finished it will have the most corrosion resistance and longer effective range of most other people's ARs. 5.56 is largely a velocity dependent cartridge, speed is your friend. It also gives me more confidence in M193 and M855 in addition to my "fancy" loadings. (MK318, MK262, TSX, Etc). I like the way you think! Your SHTF AR should be the most durable possible! |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 7:18:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Thank you Blaine, I'm glad someone agrees!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 5:17:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Do most here consider it critical to have back up parts for their rifle in a SHTF situation?
IF so, what are the most important part(s) ? What do YOU have ? BCG only? Spare barrel ? Etc. I'm thinking of picking up a spare BCG and firing pin to have around just in case. Thanks, Keith |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 5:24:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do most here consider it critical to have back up parts for their rifle in a SHTF situation? IF so, what are the most important part(s) ? What do YOU have ? BCG only? Spare barrel ? Etc. I'm thinking of picking up a spare BCG and firing pin to have around just in case. Thanks, Keith Spare BCG or better yet spare rifle. If you're in a situation where you need to fire at something you're probably not going to have time to disassemble a bcg, not lose any parts, and reassemble with new part all while taking rounds. You either want drop in (spare BCG) or better yet, a new rifle you can immediately grab. Assuming you're at home or near your vehicle etc etc. For parts you want drop-in tho, IMO. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 5:27:10 PM EDT
[#19]
I keep this in the grip and some surefire batteries in the sopmod stock
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 5:28:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mine at the moment is an mil-spec A4 with upgraded CS springs, a skinny front sight post, and a bottle of Slip 2000 in the pistol grip. I am building a designated SHTF/abusable rifle with a 20 inch barrel, VLTOR A5 system, BCM BCG coated in NP3 Plus from Robar, and other probably unnecessary things. But when finished it will have the most corrosion resistance and longer effective range of most other people's ARs. 5.56 is largely a velocity dependent cartridge, speed is your friend. It also gives me more confidence in M193 and M855 in addition to my "fancy" loadings. (MK318, MK262, TSX, Etc). You do know that you don't have to shoot bullets that depend on as much velocity, right? We aren't in the military here, and we don't have to stick with FMJ bullets. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 5:59:51 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My SHTF carbine is an Arsenal SLR-107fr with T1 and weapon light. Nice |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 6:12:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You do know that you don't have to shoot bullets that depend on as much velocity, right? We aren't in the military here, and we don't have to stick with FMJ bullets. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Mine at the moment is an mil-spec A4 with upgraded CS springs, a skinny front sight post, and a bottle of Slip 2000 in the pistol grip. I am building a designated SHTF/abusable rifle with a 20 inch barrel, VLTOR A5 system, BCM BCG coated in NP3 Plus from Robar, and other probably unnecessary things. But when finished it will have the most corrosion resistance and longer effective range of most other people's ARs. 5.56 is largely a velocity dependent cartridge, speed is your friend. It also gives me more confidence in M193 and M855 in addition to my "fancy" loadings. (MK318, MK262, TSX, Etc). You do know that you don't have to shoot bullets that depend on as much velocity, right? We aren't in the military here, and we don't have to stick with FMJ bullets. You do know that in SHTF you may be limited to whatever ammo you're lucky to salvage, come across, right? Such bullets you may only have access to may be very dependent on velocity. I for one want my rifle to be as effective as possible with whatever ammo I may have it loaded with. Quoted:
I keep this in the grip and some surefire batteries in the sopmod stock https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3757/12462825684_692fe43909_o.png That's awesome, where did you get that little pistol grip bolt storage thing? I definitely want one for those! |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 6:23:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You do know that in SHTF you may be limited to whatever ammo you're lucky to salvage, come across, right? Such bullets you may only have access to may be very dependent on velocity. I for one want my rifle to be as effective as possible with whatever ammo I may have it loaded with. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mine at the moment is an mil-spec A4 with upgraded CS springs, a skinny front sight post, and a bottle of Slip 2000 in the pistol grip. I am building a designated SHTF/abusable rifle with a 20 inch barrel, VLTOR A5 system, BCM BCG coated in NP3 Plus from Robar, and other probably unnecessary things. But when finished it will have the most corrosion resistance and longer effective range of most other people's ARs. 5.56 is largely a velocity dependent cartridge, speed is your friend. It also gives me more confidence in M193 and M855 in addition to my "fancy" loadings. (MK318, MK262, TSX, Etc). You do know that you don't have to shoot bullets that depend on as much velocity, right? We aren't in the military here, and we don't have to stick with FMJ bullets. You do know that in SHTF you may be limited to whatever ammo you're lucky to salvage, come across, right? Such bullets you may only have access to may be very dependent on velocity. I for one want my rifle to be as effective as possible with whatever ammo I may have it loaded with. I'd really love a vivid description of the SHTF scenario you envision. You seem to imagine some society where optics no longer work in general as they've all been broken, or every last battery has already been used. Where long and heavy barrels are required because the only ammo left is crap ball ammo that relies on velocity to fragment. Where this velocity is even more important due to all the 500 yard and beyond firefights that will be going on. And the list goes on from there. Please tell us your vision, I'm sure it'd be a good read. My Aimpoint Micros will last for decades with just the small handful size amount of batteries I have that are required to run them. And if one of my Micros goes down, which is already highly unlikely, I have another seven of them as backups. I have thousands and thousands of rounds that will be more than adequate out of a 10.3-14.5" 5.56. And even in some crazy dreamt up scenario where I am forced to use ball ammo, I can surely tell you that you don't want to be at the other end of even one of my 10.3s with that ball ammo. I'm not going to be going out of my way to engage threats at hundreds of yards away. Most firefights will be pretty up close and personal in a SHTF scenario. Very curious what scenario you have imagined... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 6:25:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's awesome, where did you get that little pistol grip bolt storage thing? I definitely want one for those! Magpul grip core https://www.magpul.com/products/miad®-moe®-bolt-firing-pin-core |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 6:27:54 PM EDT
[#25]
R
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You do know that in SHTF you may be limited to whatever ammo you're lucky to salvage, come across, right? Such bullets you may only have access to may be very dependent on velocity. I for one want my rifle to be as effective as possible with whatever ammo I may have it loaded with. That's awesome, where did you get that little pistol grip bolt storage thing? I definitely want one for those! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mine at the moment is an mil-spec A4 with upgraded CS springs, a skinny front sight post, and a bottle of Slip 2000 in the pistol grip. I am building a designated SHTF/abusable rifle with a 20 inch barrel, VLTOR A5 system, BCM BCG coated in NP3 Plus from Robar, and other probably unnecessary things. But when finished it will have the most corrosion resistance and longer effective range of most other people's ARs. 5.56 is largely a velocity dependent cartridge, speed is your friend. It also gives me more confidence in M193 and M855 in addition to my "fancy" loadings. (MK318, MK262, TSX, Etc). You do know that you don't have to shoot bullets that depend on as much velocity, right? We aren't in the military here, and we don't have to stick with FMJ bullets. You do know that in SHTF you may be limited to whatever ammo you're lucky to salvage, come across, right? Such bullets you may only have access to may be very dependent on velocity. I for one want my rifle to be as effective as possible with whatever ammo I may have it loaded with. Quoted:
I keep this in the grip and some surefire batteries in the sopmod stock https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3757/12462825684_692fe43909_o.png That's awesome, where did you get that little pistol grip bolt storage thing? I definitely want one for those! Its a grip core for the Magpul MAID grips |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 6:29:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do most here consider it critical to have back up parts for their rifle in a SHTF situation? IF so, what are the most important part(s) ? What do YOU have ? BCG only? Spare barrel ? Etc. I'm thinking of picking up a spare BCG and firing pin to have around just in case. Thanks, Keith http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/677135_High_round_count_AR_M4_s__over_100_000_rounds__and_how_they_have_handled_on_our_range.html This thread should give you an idea about what parts wear out. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 7:03:56 PM EDT
[#27]
My 6920 is somewhat tech'd out I suppose. I mostly use the AR platform in 5.56 due to capacity of ammo and availability. I prefer an optic such as aimpoint with a spare battery in the mount. I use flip up irons, and have carry handles everywhere at the house that I've taken off new rifles if I ever need one. I keep batteries in my rifle stock for my light, ir laser, and PVS-14that all have 10-20 year shelf life. I also keep a bolt, cam pin, and firing pin in my grip core as others have shown as those are the only parts I've witness crap out on me at the range.
My optics are also NV compatible should I ever choose to place my 14 on my rifle instead of my helmet (not likely as long as the laser is operable). Weight doesn't bother me as its all up to how you train and what your use to. Down the road I'd definatley consider getting some NVGs when funds allow, as I see them to be a huge force multiplier when the aggressor down range doesn't have them. I like a rifle setup that allows for use 24 hours a day, not just when the sun is up. Even a white light is better than nothing. I'd take your time, examine your needs for your situation, and plan a build accordingly. NVGs are pricey, but if you ever decide to add that functionality to your rifle you won't regret it. The apprehension in the mind that darkness brings is non-existent when your wearing a quality set. If I had to go bare bones, my rifle can be quickly stripped to do it, and Ive got the training to maintain it as an effective tool either way. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 7:07:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My rifle is somewhat tech'd out I suppose. I mostly use the AR platform in 5.56 due to capacity of ammo and availability. I prefer an optic such as aimpoint with a spare battery in the mount. I use flip up irons, and have carry handles everywhere at the house that I've taken off new rifles if I ever need one. I keep batteries in my rifle stock for my light, ir laser, and PVS-14that all have 10-20 year shelf life. I also keep a bolt, cam pin, and firing pin in my grip core as others have shownas those are the only parts I've witness crap out on the range. My optics are also NV compatible should I ever choose to place my 14 on my rifle instead of my helmet (not likely as long as the laser is operable). Weight doesn't bother me as its all up to how you train and what your use to. Down the road I'd definatley consider getting some NVGs when funds allow, as I see them to be a huge force multiplier when the aggressor down range doesn't have them. I like a rifle setup that allows for use 24 hours a day, not just when the sun is up. Even a white light is better than nothing. I'd take your time, examine your needs for your situation, and plan a build accordingly. NVGs are pricey, but if you ever decide to add that functionality to your rifle you won't regret it. The apprehension in the mind that darkness brings is non-existent when your wearing a quality set. If I had to go bare bones, my rifle can be quickly stripped to do it, and Ive got the training to maintain it as an effective tool either way. That was actually a really good post without delusion unlike some people in here. But holy diver does that post need some paragraphing.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 7:31:08 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was actually a really good post without delusion unlike some people in here. But holy diver does that post need some paragraphing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My rifle is somewhat tech'd out I suppose. I mostly use the AR platform in 5.56 due to capacity of ammo and availability. I prefer an optic such as aimpoint with a spare battery in the mount. I use flip up irons, and have carry handles everywhere at the house that I've taken off new rifles if I ever need one. I keep batteries in my rifle stock for my light, ir laser, and PVS-14that all have 10-20 year shelf life. I also keep a bolt, cam pin, and firing pin in my grip core as others have shownas those are the only parts I've witness crap out on the range. My optics are also NV compatible should I ever choose to place my 14 on my rifle instead of my helmet (not likely as long as the laser is operable). Weight doesn't bother me as its all up to how you train and what your use to. Down the road I'd definatley consider getting some NVGs when funds allow, as I see them to be a huge force multiplier when the aggressor down range doesn't have them. I like a rifle setup that allows for use 24 hours a day, not just when the sun is up. Even a white light is better than nothing. I'd take your time, examine your needs for your situation, and plan a build accordingly. NVGs are pricey, but if you ever decide to add that functionality to your rifle you won't regret it. The apprehension in the mind that darkness brings is non-existent when your wearing a quality set. If I had to go bare bones, my rifle can be quickly stripped to do it, and Ive got the training to maintain it as an effective tool either way. That was actually a really good post without delusion unlike some people in here. But holy diver does that post need some paragraphing. Yea. Sorry about that. Typing on an iPhone sucks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 7:32:07 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You do know that in SHTF you may be limited to whatever ammo you're lucky to salvage, come across, right? Such bullets you may only have access to may be very dependent on velocity. I for one want my rifle to be as effective as possible with whatever ammo I may have it loaded with. Right, the stereotypical ARFCOM SHTF wet dream where society crashes overnight, guns and ammo become impossible to find, and everything electronic suddenly breaks. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 8:58:51 PM EDT
[#31]
Thanks for the thread link and good info guys.
Keith |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 9:11:37 PM EDT
[#32]
So is someone trying to tell me that velocity is a bad thing? That's very interesting. Regardless of load or caliber, every bullet hits harder, is more likely to fragment, (5.56) and/or expands more with more velocity. Plus a longer effective range.
Speed is everything, the more the better. Gives me more confidence in a wider array of ammo selection. Hunting and hollow point ammo is way more expensive than M193, and my small stash of performance ammo wouldn't last forever in a true SHTF situation. And since when is a 20 inch government profile barrel "long and heavy"? I don't think the Marines mind... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 9:31:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Carry a 20 incher for hours, and then carry a 14.5" or shorter for hours. The difference is substantial.
Frankly, 14.5 inches is the longest I'd go for a carry AR. I'd prefer something in the 10.3-12.5" range though. My current go-to "if I could only have one for the rest of days" AR is my 11.5" KAC CQB. Beyond weight, the way the shorter rifles handle in comparison is night and day. I can even notice a difference in handling between a 14.5" and 16" AR. The difference between a 20" and something in the 10.3-14.5" range is massive. And as already said, it will be rare to engage someone beyond even 50 or 100 yards. Even a 10.3" 5.56 is a man killer well beyond 100 yards. The argument for more velocity when it comes to stopping human threats is vastly overblown IMO. Do you know how many tangos are taken down with 10.3" and 14.5" rifles by our military? The argument for more than 14.5" to be a manstopper is wanting at best. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 9:40:31 PM EDT
[#34]
I agree with you on the weight, shorter barrels will be lighter. But I still think velocity is important. I'm not a huge fan of SBRs in 5.56. I'm quite sure it could kill, but my confidence is in the 20 inch. Or at least 16. Also for the fact that the shorter ones can be finicky with their gas systems. The rifle system runs the smoothest, and has the longest bolt/bolt parts life that I know of. Ideal in SHTF.
It is my personal preference for a 20 inch, and 20 inchers don't have to be heavy. My next rifle is going to be under 7 pounds, I think that is quite manageable. To each their own. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:03:21 PM EDT
[#35]
With all due respect, anyone who considers 5.56 SBRs ineffective or finicky is not very well read up on them.
There are plenty of SOF operators who will choose a 10.3" 5.56 over any other configuration. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:11:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With all due respect, anyone who considers 5.56 SBRs ineffective or finicky is not very well read up on them. There are plenty of SOF operators who will choose a 10.3" 5.56 over any other configuration. In that case I'm glad I have two 10.3" SBRs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:13:23 PM EDT
[#37]
I said they CAN be finicky, from what I've read. It seems like alot of threads relating to reliability issues such as over gassing, FTEs, ect, have to do with an SBR, or pistol.
Like I said, I have no doubt that 5.56 can kill from a 10 inch barrel, but I will argue it can kill more efficiently with double the barrel length. If your shot placement is less than ideal, especially. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:19:54 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I said they CAN be finicky, from what I've read. It seems like alot of threads relating to reliability issues such as over gassing, FTEs, ect, have to do with an SBR, or pistol. Like I said, I have no doubt that 5.56 can kill from a 10 inch barrel, but I will argue it can kill more efficiently with double the barrel length. If your shot placement is less than ideal, especially. The pistol length gas system is where the finicky/reliability problems come into play. The CQBR/Mk 18 that Ryan is hinting toward/mainly referring to is carbine gassed and runs like a raped ape with zero reliability issues over a 14.5, 16, or 20". |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:28:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Good to know. But, parts life are indeed the longest on a rifle length gas system. Is that not ideal for a SHTF rifle? That is this thread's subject, yes?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:33:33 PM EDT
[#40]
How much shooting are you really expecting to do in SHTF? You won't be doing 1000 round range sessions anymore.
A quality 10.3" 5.56 will last a damn long time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:40:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good to know. But, parts life are indeed the longest on a rifle length gas system. Is that not ideal for a SHTF rifle? That is this thread's subject, yes? None of us would make it more than a few years max in any of these ARFCOM SHTF scenarios, all you'd need is maybe a bolt and MAYBE barrel swap at the most in that amount of time. So I see it as kind of irrelevant either way. A correctly tuned gas system in a 10.3 will last just fine. Could you stretch bolt/barrel life out longer in a 20"? Probably. But I already have extra bolts, barrels, and all tools needed so it's a non issue for me. I'd take the maneuverability over stretching out a bolt/barrel swap by using the 20" for a few years, every time. The pro's of the 10.3 outweigh the pro's of the 20 for me, but ill take my 14.5 above anything. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:43:09 PM EDT
[#42]
True that, I guess it would depend on the amount of S HingTF. It would have to be pretty damn bad.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:45:00 PM EDT
[#43]
It's not like the 20 inch rifle is difficult to maneuver. It's not a musket. Pencil barrels, too.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:46:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not like the 20 inch rifle is difficult to maneuver. It's not a musket. Pencil barrels, too. Try getting in and out of a car with a 20" barrel and fixed stock, then try getting in and out of a car with a mk 18 and get back to me. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 10:54:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not like the 20 inch rifle is difficult to maneuver. It's not a musket. Pencil barrels, too. I see you've never tried to maneuver your 20" rifle inside a vehicle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 11:06:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Yes, inside vehicles will be more cumbersome, but that's a sacrifice I and I'm sure many others are willing to make for the other advantages of a full length rifle.
Besides, side arms are your friend in a vehicle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 11:17:57 PM EDT
[#47]
I think you overestimate those "many others."
Most are living in the 21st century when it comes to ARs these days. Once you go beyond 14.5 inches with a 5.56, it ventures into the diminishing returns realm. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 11:51:29 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Carry a 20 incher for hours, and then carry a 14.5" or shorter for hours. The difference is substantial. Frankly, 14.5 inches is the longest I'd go for a carry AR. I'd prefer something in the 10.3-12.5" range though. My current go-to "if I could only have one for the rest of days" AR is my 11.5" KAC CQB. Beyond weight, the way the shorter rifles handle in comparison is night and day. I can even notice a difference in handling between a 14.5" and 16" AR. The difference between a 20" and something in the 10.3-14.5" range is massive. And as already said, it will be rare to engage someone beyond even 50 or 100 yards. Even a 10.3" 5.56 is a man killer well beyond 100 yards. The argument for more velocity when it comes to stopping human threats is vastly overblown IMO. Do you know how many tangos are taken down with 10.3" and 14.5" rifles by our military? The argument for more than 14.5" to be a manstopper is wanting at best. You logic is sound!. Makes me very pleased I decided on a 10.3" barrel for my in process suppressed .300 BLK SBR build. It will be my new at-home go-to rifle when finished. My other rifles are a 18" SS .223 wylde Wilson Arms mid-length SPR and a 14.5" AR Performance mid-length .223 wylde. I don't see any need for a 16" rifle anymore. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/30/2015 11:57:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not like the 20 inch rifle is difficult to maneuver. It's not a musket. Pencil barrels, too. Maybe not technically, but that's what we called the M16A4's our squad marksmen had to carry. The rest of us had M4's. For SHTF I'm looking at a 14.5 with ACOG or a 10.5 with Aimpoint T1 depending on the area and situation. Both with backup irons, Surefire M600 Ultras, and the ability to use a suppressor. Would like to add a couple of ATPIAL-C's and set of NODs to the list as well. Maybe one of these days.
I do need to look into a couple of those grip cores for spare parts though. They look handy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/1/2015 1:25:37 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd really love a vivid description of the SHTF scenario you envision. You seem to imagine some society where optics no longer work in general as they've all been broken, or every last battery has already been used. Where long and heavy barrels are required because the only ammo left is crap ball ammo that relies on velocity to fragment. Where this velocity is even more important due to all the 500 yard and beyond firefights that will be going on. And the list goes on from there. Please tell us your vision, I'm sure it'd be a good read. My Aimpoint Micros will last for decades with just the small handful size amount of batteries I have that are required to run them. And if one of my Micros goes down, which is already highly unlikely, I have another seven of them as backups. I have thousands and thousands of rounds that will be more than adequate out of a 10.3-14.5" 5.56. And even in some crazy dreamt up scenario where I am forced to use ball ammo, I can surely tell you that you don't want to be at the other end of even one of my 10.3s with that ball ammo. I'm not going to be going out of my way to engage threats at hundreds of yards away. Most firefights will be pretty up close and personal in a SHTF scenario. Very curious what scenario you have imagined... Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd really love a vivid description of the SHTF scenario you envision. You seem to imagine some society where optics no longer work in general as they've all been broken, or every last battery has already been used. Where long and heavy barrels are required because the only ammo left is crap ball ammo that relies on velocity to fragment. Where this velocity is even more important due to all the 500 yard and beyond firefights that will be going on. And the list goes on from there. Please tell us your vision, I'm sure it'd be a good read. My Aimpoint Micros will last for decades with just the small handful size amount of batteries I have that are required to run them. And if one of my Micros goes down, which is already highly unlikely, I have another seven of them as backups. I have thousands and thousands of rounds that will be more than adequate out of a 10.3-14.5" 5.56. And even in some crazy dreamt up scenario where I am forced to use ball ammo, I can surely tell you that you don't want to be at the other end of even one of my 10.3s with that ball ammo. I'm not going to be going out of my way to engage threats at hundreds of yards away. Most firefights will be pretty up close and personal in a SHTF scenario. Very curious what scenario you have imagined... He's devised a fantasy to allow him to justify the fact that he likes older guns, or doesn't want to spend the money for quality optics and equipment. Hence the idea that optics won't last a year, and that he will ever be in a scenario, as a civilian, where he can justify engaging someone at hundreds of yards. Don't try to understand it, just try to inform other people about force multipliers, and hope they are smart enough to listen. Quoted:
So is someone trying to tell me that velocity is a bad thing? That's very interesting. Regardless of load or caliber, every bullet hits harder, is more likely to fragment, (5.56) and/or expands more with more velocity. Plus a longer effective range. Speed is everything, the more the better. Gives me more confidence in a wider array of ammo selection. Hunting and hollow point ammo is way more expensive than M193, and my small stash of performance ammo wouldn't last forever in a true SHTF situation. And since when is a 20 inch government profile barrel "long and heavy"? I don't think the Marines mind... The Marines are going to M4s. Try working or hiking with a rifle, you'll learn very VERY quickly why shorter is better, especially if you have to dig a hole. Working while armed, unlike shooting people at 400 yards, is something that is likely to happen in a realistic scenario. I've long said that a civilian will find PDW style rifles far more useful than battle rifles or full size intermediate rifles. Your goal is fending off people you can't avoid, not closing on and destroying your enemies. Without a support system (Someone hauling you ammo/food, rendering medical aid, shooting mortars, cannons and dropping bombs) you aren't going to live long enough to expend thousands of rounds, anyway. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
