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Posted: 7/2/2015 11:12:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Don't we have this conversation every time Greece burps?
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Posted: 7/2/2015 11:17:12 PM EDT
[#2]
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Don't we have this conversation every time Greece burps? Yes. It's a good exercise, IMO. |
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Posted: 7/2/2015 11:36:13 PM EDT
[#3]
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Who could buy a Hellcat and not drive it, seriously  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Uh, if you had your savings- that $100k in Euros in your mattress......It still has value, just not in Greece. Greece can't "redominate" the Euro by themselves-unless you have "digital Euros" only...... I would MUCH RATHER have $100k in Euros in my home than $100k in Euros in the bank where they can just say, "You just bailed out the bank, thank you. We will now issue you 1,000,000 Ducats in exchange". Fuck that. I'll take my Euros someplace else where they still have value.....much more value than the shitty new currency. I'd take a vacation to Germany or France and buy a new car, whatever..... The Euro will still have value regardless of what Greece does, that's the thing about a "supra national" currency...... You're correct, what I was getting at in my OP was from the standpoint of your average Greek citizen, supposing they even had $100k in euros, right now they are worthless in Greece. But because of how the EU is setup, euros still have value. So, this average Greek citizen will now have to go outside the country to somewhere else in order to regain the full value of the euros he has. If this were happening in the U.S., the question then becomes if the U.S. dollar is devalued so greatly in this country, it seems likely that the ripple effect throughout the entire world will bring everyone else down with us. Even if many other nations come to agreement that the U.S. dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency, the devaluation of the dollar will still cause such a huge catastrophe the world has likely never seen before. That's why I was throwing out valuation and redenomination schemes out there as those are sort of last straws for the Federal Reserve to get a handle on things but once you exercise that power, there's no going back and you're going to have to deal with the ramifications one way or the other. My solution? I just don't keep cash around. Money should be working for you, not sitting in a mattress or a bank. I mean really, the bank pays you .05% in interest these days, in some nations they are now CHARGING YOU to keep your money in the bank. So why do it? Security? At best that's a MAYBE these days with Bail In's etc.....better to take the money and invest it in something productive. Leasing dairy cows for example- Yes, it's done.....Buying productive rental properties or farm land. Buy a Dodge Charger Hellcat, never drive it, and store it for 20 years...... Just about anything is better than simply letting the money sit in a bank account.... Who could buy a Hellcat and not drive it, seriously Buy two? |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 12:01:25 AM EDT
[#4]
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Historically Pms by themselves are not used for trade. If things are that bad, people trade in goods. You can't eat or burn gold. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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stuffing money in your mattress is ok short term maybe, but you lose money through inflation at the very least. what is it that you want your 100k to do when and if the shtf? i am trying to get to the point where i dont need a paper medium for exchange. period. there is a world currency allready......Gold / Silver Historically Pms by themselves are not used for trade. If things are that bad, people trade in goods. You can't eat or burn gold. Quoting because so few who love to talk prepping actually understand this concept. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 12:35:27 AM EDT
[#5]
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Quoting because so few who love to talk prepping actually understand this concept. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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stuffing money in your mattress is ok short term maybe, but you lose money through inflation at the very least. what is it that you want your 100k to do when and if the shtf? i am trying to get to the point where i dont need a paper medium for exchange. period. there is a world currency allready......Gold / Silver Historically Pms by themselves are not used for trade. If things are that bad, people trade in goods. You can't eat or burn gold. Quoting because so few who love to talk prepping actually understand this concept. Yes, but I don't buy 100% Historically not that many people ever actually have gold or silver to trade with. So did my grandparents do trading of goods during the depression? They say they did. Did they ever even see a gold piece? Not likely,but it had value. Even in the worst of times some are going to be doing better than others. They may not need your chickens, but silver dollars are another story. This situation we are plummeting into is likely to break the mold when it comes to what usually happens. But we already have first hand accounts of gold and silver being traded in this thread. Not that I am saying other trade goods may not be just as valuable. In my Panama thread you will hear me saying my stay there has convinced me to put up some liquor. And ammo has assumed a new level of value in our society. I would not trade food, as hungry people are desperate people and I don't want them to know I have a surplus of food, though they would likely guess there is no reason to put it out there. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 7:34:48 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoting because so few who love to talk prepping actually understand this concept. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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stuffing money in your mattress is ok short term maybe, but you lose money through inflation at the very least. what is it that you want your 100k to do when and if the shtf? i am trying to get to the point where i dont need a paper medium for exchange. period. there is a world currency allready......Gold / Silver Historically Pms by themselves are not used for trade. If things are that bad, people trade in goods. You can't eat or burn gold. Quoting because so few who love to talk prepping actually understand this concept. Which part are you quoting? a) Historically, people who have the gold and silver survive an economic collapse?. -or- b) Historically, poor people trade and barter in goods and services? |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 10:49:47 AM EDT
[#7]
For the guys talking about trading gold/silver for dollars. And sorry if Fernando covered it in his video, I didn't watch the whole thing.
If you see a situation where you may have to trade your wife's engagement ring for cash, make connections now not later. There are dozens of places in my area that buy gold and silver, jewelers, pawn shops, coin shops, "cash for gold" shops, antique stores, and guys who set up in hotels. You could really get screwed with some of these guys. If you are in dire straights you probably aren't going to have time to shop around and find a place that will give you a good price. For instance, I've seen guys who set up in hotels pay $1.00 for silver dollars that, at the time, were worth around $20 each. They told the lady that they were just $1.00 coins and she bought it. Pawns around here will pay about 50% of gold market for jewelry. I pay 70% for jewelry and 80% for coins. I'm also honest enough to tell people that they might get more for their coins at a coin shop. You will never get full market price for your jewelry from any of the above businesses unless its from a well known (and probably dead) designer. The reason is that if you sell to me, I have to sell to a refiner, and the refiner isn't going to pay me full market price. You probably aren't going to get much for diamonds. Right now I'm paying $100/ct for anything under .15-.20ct and $250/ct for most .20-.35ct, above that it depends on the quality of the diamond. Why so little? People have been selling their jewelry right and left for the past several years, the market is flowing over with smaller diamonds and we (jewelers) can't get rid of them. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 12:55:23 PM EDT
[#8]
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a) Historically, people who have the gold and silver survive an economic collapse?. -or- b) Historically, poor people trade and barter in goods and services? I like how you spun that, but you are kidding yourself. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 1:32:16 PM EDT
[#9]
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Don't we have this conversation every time Greece burps? Greece didn't just burp, it threw up and it's now in a coma. FerFAL |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 1:42:25 PM EDT
[#10]
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One thing that hasn't really been mentioned up to this point is what happened to the Cypriots. The .gov there just decided to steal some of everybody's money, in some cases a whole lot of some people's money (the filthy rich, of course, in typical commie-pinko fashion). Greece could VERY easily be looking at precisely the same situation. As I see it, there are really only two ways of dealing with that kind of sanctioned theft (other than exterminating the leaders of the .gov gone rogue). First, you could transfer all of your money to an out-of-country bank, which is what many of the Russians who had lots of money in Cyprus did. The problem there is the US has its tentacles in virtually every other country's banking system and could (and would) find a way to "repatriate" your fair share. Second, you could buy gold and silver and raise your middle finger at the thieving ba$tards. Or, as some have suggested, buy land really quick, if that's possible. Note that a LOT of Chinese businessmen have been buying real estate in the US because they don't trust the Chinese banking system or the .gov there. But it takes time to buy land, time you may or may not have. If the financial collapse is imminent and/or immediate, buying gold may be the only option as that can be done the fastest, particularly if you already have a relationship with a local dealer. The problem may be extracting your funds out of your various accounts (particularly things like IRA/401Ks and the like) and/or conducting transfers from your account to your gold dealer's account. My local dealer here only takes cash. I'm pretty sure if we were to suddenly see a bank run, that the ability to extract your money in actual cash is going to be highly restricted, just like it is in Greece right now (and Cyprus before that, and Argentina before that, etc.). I guess my main point being have a plan for how you plan to extract your wealth from the banking system quickly, should the need arise to do so. I'm of the opinion that gold is a compact media for the storage of wealth and silver is a compact medium of exchange (or what we used to call "currency"). If it looks like a total financial system failure is underway, the only way to save even a fraction of your life's savings is to convert it to something the .gov cant restrict access to- gold, silver, and other physical objects that will retain their value in the short term. Long term, gold conversion to the "new imperial dollar" would likely be required and would be reasonable, given that the market would price the conversion ratio, not the .gov. Read the last few lines of my previous post....... No matter what happens, if your money is not in your possession, you do not have control over it. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 2:20:54 PM EDT
[#11]
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I like how you spun that, but you are kidding yourself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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a) Historically, people who have the gold and silver survive an economic collapse?. -or- b) Historically, poor people trade and barter in goods and services? I like how you spun that, but you are kidding yourself. Well, agree or not, history says differently. One problem is, it depends on what happens. In Greece, I see no evidence that taxes or loans are being repaid with goods or services. Historically, even when barter/trade has been used, the people with the gold and silver were not excluded from the marketplace. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 2:30:18 PM EDT
[#12]
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Well, agree or not, history says differently. One problem is, it depends on what happens. In Greece, I see no evidence that taxes or loans are being repaid with goods or services. Historically, even when barter/trade has been used, the people with the gold and silver were not excluded from the marketplace. No. History does not agree with you. If you have actual research to support this, I am very interested. "not being excluded" means they first had to convert their PMs to cash. 
As I've said, PMs are great for the "other side" of the crisis, when things settle down. You won't be buying chickens with silver bars. Will you be wealthy if you have a lot of PMs? Sure. That being said, even wealthy people have to eat, they have to pay for services and they have to buy things. If the people making the things (who are generally poor) don't want your inedible and useless bars of metal, what will you do then? As long as there is a way to convert your PMs to currency, you'll be fine, though. Just seems silly to me to buy metal with money if you plan to buy money with metal later on. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 2:34:06 PM EDT
[#13]
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In Greece, I see no evidence that taxes or loans are being repaid with goods or services. They aren't paying them with gold or silver either. As long as there is cash, cash will be king. When there is no cash, barter will be king. Just 200 years ago people used whiskey as currency here in this very country. Gold existed then, too. The people making the whiskey traded it for food and clothing. Even guns. The people making the guns, food and clothing got whiskey. No precious metals, other than some jewelry were used. Even in countries in the middle east, people barter with goods. The number of goats or camels you have determines your wealth in many remote places there. This is because there is no practical use for precious metals. Currency exists there, and so does a pretty large amount of gold and silver. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 2:52:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. History does not agree with you. If you have actual research to support this, I am very interested. "not being excluded" means they first had to convert their PMs to cash.
As I've said, PMs are great for the "other side" of the crisis, when things settle down. You won't be buying chickens with silver bars. Will you be wealthy if you have a lot of PMs? Sure. That being said, even wealthy people have to eat, they have to pay for services and they have to buy things. If the people making the things (who are generally poor) don't want your inedible and useless bars of metal, what will you do then? and what happens if you don't happen to have what the people making things want? As long as there is a way to convert your PMs to currency, you'll be fine, though. Just seems silly to me to buy metal with money if you plan to buy money with metal later on. That really depends what money you are buying metal with and what money you are buying with the metal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well, agree or not, history says differently. One problem is, it depends on what happens. In Greece, I see no evidence that taxes or loans are being repaid with goods or services. Historically, even when barter/trade has been used, the people with the gold and silver were not excluded from the marketplace. No. History does not agree with you. If you have actual research to support this, I am very interested. "not being excluded" means they first had to convert their PMs to cash.
As I've said, PMs are great for the "other side" of the crisis, when things settle down. You won't be buying chickens with silver bars. Will you be wealthy if you have a lot of PMs? Sure. That being said, even wealthy people have to eat, they have to pay for services and they have to buy things. If the people making the things (who are generally poor) don't want your inedible and useless bars of metal, what will you do then? and what happens if you don't happen to have what the people making things want? As long as there is a way to convert your PMs to currency, you'll be fine, though. Just seems silly to me to buy metal with money if you plan to buy money with metal later on. That really depends what money you are buying metal with and what money you are buying with the metal. It is not an either-or answer. Just because one has metals, does not mean they cannot or will not have food and other supplies. But this thread pertains to a financial crisis, and somehow the people with the gold (money) somehow seem to survive that type of crisis. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 2:54:11 PM EDT
[#15]
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It is not an either-or answer. Just because one has metals, does not mean they cannot or will not have food and other supplies. But this thread pertains to a financial crisis, and somehow the people with the gold (money) somehow seem to survive that type of crisis. Oh I get you know. My apologies. I agree, people who store their wealth in material things do end up retaining that wealth after the crisis. My point was that DURING the crisis, cash will be king. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 3:09:52 PM EDT
[#16]
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Oh I get you know. My apologies. I agree, people who store their wealth in material things do end up retaining that wealth after the crisis. My point was that DURING the crisis, cash will be king. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It is not an either-or answer. Just because one has metals, does not mean they cannot or will not have food and other supplies. But this thread pertains to a financial crisis, and somehow the people with the gold (money) somehow seem to survive that type of crisis. Oh I get you know. My apologies. I agree, people who store their wealth in material things do end up retaining that wealth after the crisis. My point was that DURING the crisis, cash will be king. I would not disagree with that. I wasn't actually sure what our disagreement was. I just know that I am not in the "after TSHTF, I gonna go buy my land with a case of .22LR" crowd. 
cue 'The Survivors'... "Kings of the Future Speech" 
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Posted: 7/3/2015 3:16:41 PM EDT
[#17]
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I would not disagree with that. I wasn't actually sure what our disagreement was. I just know that I am not in the "after TSHTF, I gonna go buy my land with a case of .22LR" crowd.
cue 'The Survivors'... "Kings of the Future Speech"
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It is not an either-or answer. Just because one has metals, does not mean they cannot or will not have food and other supplies. But this thread pertains to a financial crisis, and somehow the people with the gold (money) somehow seem to survive that type of crisis. Oh I get you know. My apologies. I agree, people who store their wealth in material things do end up retaining that wealth after the crisis. My point was that DURING the crisis, cash will be king. I would not disagree with that. I wasn't actually sure what our disagreement was. I just know that I am not in the "after TSHTF, I gonna go buy my land with a case of .22LR" crowd.
cue 'The Survivors'... "Kings of the Future Speech"
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Posted: 7/3/2015 3:36:13 PM EDT
[#18]
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For the guys talking about trading gold/silver for dollars. And sorry if Fernando covered it in his video, I didn't watch the whole thing. If you see a situation where you may have to trade your wife's engagement ring for cash, make connections now not later. There are dozens of places in my area that buy gold and silver, jewelers, pawn shops, coin shops, "cash for gold" shops, antique stores, and guys who set up in hotels. You could really get screwed with some of these guys. If you are in dire straights you probably aren't going to have time to shop around and find a place that will give you a good price. For instance, I've seen guys who set up in hotels pay $1.00 for silver dollars that, at the time, were worth around $20 each. They told the lady that they were just $1.00 coins and she bought it. Pawns around here will pay about 50% of gold market for jewelry. I pay 70% for jewelry and 80% for coins. I'm also honest enough to tell people that they might get more for their coins at a coin shop. You will never get full market price for your jewelry from any of the above businesses unless its from a well known (and probably dead) designer. The reason is that if you sell to me, I have to sell to a refiner, and the refiner isn't going to pay me full market price. You probably aren't going to get much for diamonds. Right now I'm paying $100/ct for anything under .15-.20ct and $250/ct for most .20-.35ct, above that it depends on the quality of the diamond. Why so little? People have been selling their jewelry right and left for the past several years, the market is flowing over with smaller diamonds and we (jewelers) can't get rid of them. Sounds about right. You're an honest guy and what you explain about you having to sell to the refiner is correct. You paying 80% for the coins makes sense. Thaking a 20% loss sounds bad for the seller, but then again it depends on what he paid for it as well. I buy a bit of junk silver here and there but I make sure not to pay more than junk prices for it. Not interested in coin collecting. Now, if I paid a bit under spot price and I lose a bit selling to a guy like you, that I can live with. Keep in mind we're talking about maybe the currency losing 70% or 80% of its value, heck, even losing ALL of it. In that case taking a 10% hit doesnt sound as bad. As you also explain, having bullion and selling to a proper broker means your loss is reduced even further. FerFAL |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:56:01 AM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 7/4/2015 12:21:10 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 7/4/2015 12:56:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Wife and I saw this coming.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9963b74c-219c-11e5-aa5a-398b2169cf79.html#axzz3ewV2oer7 |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 4:04:46 PM EDT
[#22]
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100K in cash sure sounds like a bad idea. A couple K, or maybe 2 or 3 months worth of expenses sounds about right. After that you want to stick to precious metals, and after that other investments such as real estate. The big game changer? an account outside the country. I know this is almost impossible for non-millionaire Americans but for the rest of us its pretty easy, especially in Europe. I'v been writing about how to prepare for exactly what's going on in Greece right now for a pretty long time. Hopefully a few people listened an followed such advice. If they did they'll sure be thanful today. FerFAL This is actually very easy..Citibank has multi currency accounts that you can get offshore...you just have to make a trip to set the account up, hopefully in some beautiful tropical paradise. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 8:50:25 PM EDT
[#23]
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Yes, but I don't buy 100% Historically not that many people ever actually have gold or silver to trade with. So did my grandparents do trading of goods during the depression? They say they did. Did they ever even see a gold piece? Not likely,but it had value. Even in the worst of times some are going to be doing better than others. They may not need your chickens, but silver dollars are another story. This situation we are plummeting into is likely to break the mold when it comes to what usually happens. But we already have first hand accounts of gold and silver being traded in this thread. Not that I am saying other trade goods may not be just as valuable. In my Panama thread you will hear me saying my stay there has convinced me to put up some liquor. And ammo has assumed a new level of value in our society. I would not trade food, as hungry people are desperate people and I don't want them to know I have a surplus of food, though they would likely guess there is no reason to put it out there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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stuffing money in your mattress is ok short term maybe, but you lose money through inflation at the very least. what is it that you want your 100k to do when and if the shtf? i am trying to get to the point where i dont need a paper medium for exchange. period. there is a world currency allready......Gold / Silver Historically Pms by themselves are not used for trade. If things are that bad, people trade in goods. You can't eat or burn gold. Quoting because so few who love to talk prepping actually understand this concept. Yes, but I don't buy 100% Historically not that many people ever actually have gold or silver to trade with. So did my grandparents do trading of goods during the depression? They say they did. Did they ever even see a gold piece? Not likely,but it had value. Even in the worst of times some are going to be doing better than others. They may not need your chickens, but silver dollars are another story. This situation we are plummeting into is likely to break the mold when it comes to what usually happens. But we already have first hand accounts of gold and silver being traded in this thread. Not that I am saying other trade goods may not be just as valuable. In my Panama thread you will hear me saying my stay there has convinced me to put up some liquor. And ammo has assumed a new level of value in our society. I would not trade food, as hungry people are desperate people and I don't want them to know I have a surplus of food, though they would likely guess there is no reason to put it out there. I think this is exactly right. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 10:10:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Our goal is to have about $5k in cash folding money in the house and have about 12 months living expenses (in today's dollars!) in money market/same as cash bak accounts. Rest of the investments are in stocks, bonds, 401k, mutuals. No PMs to speak of at the moment, but I'm giving that some serious reconsideration.
Also have some stock in firearms-related bartering materials (ammo and spare guns). For a true SHTF, though, we have arable land with surface and subsurface water supplies, stores of seed, a reasonable amount of fuel (would start laying in more as things head south), and manual and powered equipment to work the soil. Good wildlife populations, though they'd get scarce pretty damn quick if hunted on a subsistence basis. Ponds have fish that might carry through some lean times. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 4:19:47 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryI was really lucky to marry a girl that grew up on a farm in the Philipines. They have a tradition of making every inch of land count to grow food. I have set up a rain collection system to provide irrigation for our current garden and our planned SHTF expansion. My future plans are more seeds, better tools for working the soil, and having the materials in the shed to build pens/sheds/hutches for small livestock, chickens, rabbits, etc. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 6:21:22 AM EDT
[#26]
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I was really lucky to marry a girl that grew up on a farm in the Philipines. They have a tradition of making every inch of land count to grow food. I have set up a rain collection system to provide irrigation for our current garden and our planned SHTF expansion. My future plans are more seeds, better tools for working the soil, and having the materials in the shed to build pens/sheds/hutches for small livestock, chickens, rabbits, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was really lucky to marry a girl that grew up on a farm in the Philipines. They have a tradition of making every inch of land count to grow food. I have set up a rain collection system to provide irrigation for our current garden and our planned SHTF expansion. My future plans are more seeds, better tools for working the soil, and having the materials in the shed to build pens/sheds/hutches for small livestock, chickens, rabbits, etc. My personal view is that self-reliance and survival are almost (though not quite) synonymous. If you drill back far enough, it seems to me that the vast majority - if not all - of our current problems are a result of people losing interest in taking care of themselves... it's become far too easy to just let others do it for us. Billions of dollars and unimaginable effort has been expended to support those who are unwilling (and yeah, in a few cases, unable) to manage their own affairs. It's become so ingrained in our society that we even feel it is our duty to "help" people in other countries - including countries that despise our culture and want nothing more than for us to GTFO. It's way past time "MYOB" becomes a lifestyle rather than just a snarky 'net acronym. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 7:24:52 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryThanks. Most European immigrants like my grandparents(Spain) and my wife's grandparents (Italy) had that same mentality. No matter what you did for a living, part of your yard was dedicated to growing stuff and in one corner of your back yard you kept chickens ofr eggs and eating. Notice this part though: "In the village it's easier to live," said Ionnis Psilas, who is saddled with debts he says he can never repay after the failure of his car import business. "You can get products from neighbors and give them some. In Athens you are strangers. But the crisis has affected the village very much. We are trying but there is no money here. I lived very well and now I have nothing." This is important right there, because it explains what I've tried to explain here many times, only to get people pissed: Producing some food is not a complete solution on its own. Its another tool, it helps and supplements but if people, including the man quotes above, could choose bettween producing food or producign money, he and everyone else would chose finding ways of producing money, which brings me back to another important lesson from the old Spanish and Italian immigrants which they were even more passionate about than producing food: own your own BUSINESS. The man's political view is also interesting. He said he would like to vote "200 times no" against the proposed bailout deal, which would impose still more austerity measures on a country that has endured five years of dire cutbacks. He admires Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras for defying European leaders and the International Monetary Fund by urging citizens to reject the deal, a course that could cause Greece to tumble out of the eurozone.
The town, topped by the dramatic remains of a 13th Century castle, has played an important role in Greek history, with its residents among the first to rise up during the war for independence from the Ottoman Empire that began in 1821. Its distinctive Byzantine churches and stone-wrought homes - and the magnificent view of the mountains, rivers and valleys - won it a place on the back of the 5,000 drachma bill before the Greek currency was phased out when the euro was introduced in 2002. Some have high hopes of a return to the drachma if Greece abandons the euro. Divisions in the village over whether to be in or out of the eurozone are so pronounced that those who back the bailout proposal sit at one table at a village café while those opposed sit at another, a gulf of empty tables separating them. Leaving the EU would give Greece freedom to manage their own currency, then again I think the best thing would be to stay in the EU but doing so in more reasonable, favorable circumstances, but I dont think the troika has that in mind. FerFAL |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 10:45:45 AM EDT
[#28]
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Yes, but I don't buy 100% Historically not that many people ever actually have gold or silver to trade with. So did my grandparents do trading of goods during the depression? They say they did. Did they ever even see a gold piece? Not likely,but it had value. Even in the worst of times some are going to be doing better than others. They may not need your chickens, but silver dollars are another story. This situation we are plummeting into is likely to break the mold when it comes to what usually happens. But we already have first hand accounts of gold and silver being traded in this thread. Not that I am saying other trade goods may not be just as valuable. In my Panama thread you will hear me saying my stay there has convinced me to put up some liquor. And ammo has assumed a new level of value in our society. I would not trade food, as hungry people are desperate people and I don't want them to know I have a surplus of food, though they would likely guess there is no reason to put it out there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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stuffing money in your mattress is ok short term maybe, but you lose money through inflation at the very least. what is it that you want your 100k to do when and if the shtf? i am trying to get to the point where i dont need a paper medium for exchange. period. there is a world currency allready......Gold / Silver Historically Pms by themselves are not used for trade. If things are that bad, people trade in goods. You can't eat or burn gold. Quoting because so few who love to talk prepping actually understand this concept. Yes, but I don't buy 100% Historically not that many people ever actually have gold or silver to trade with. So did my grandparents do trading of goods during the depression? They say they did. Did they ever even see a gold piece? Not likely,but it had value. Even in the worst of times some are going to be doing better than others. They may not need your chickens, but silver dollars are another story. This situation we are plummeting into is likely to break the mold when it comes to what usually happens. But we already have first hand accounts of gold and silver being traded in this thread. Not that I am saying other trade goods may not be just as valuable. In my Panama thread you will hear me saying my stay there has convinced me to put up some liquor. And ammo has assumed a new level of value in our society. I would not trade food, as hungry people are desperate people and I don't want them to know I have a surplus of food, though they would likely guess there is no reason to put it out there. Yes it has. More people have bought guns in the last 20 years than you can imagine. Many of them are not "gun people"....they will figure out just how important ammo is after the fact.... |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 10:50:34 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think this is exactly right. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes, but I don't buy 100% Historically not that many people ever actually have gold or silver to trade with. So did my grandparents do trading of goods during the depression? They say they did. Did they ever even see a gold piece? Not likely,but it had value. Even in the worst of times some are going to be doing better than others. They may not need your chickens, but silver dollars are another story. This situation we are plummeting into is likely to break the mold when it comes to what usually happens. But we already have first hand accounts of gold and silver being traded in this thread. Not that I am saying other trade goods may not be just as valuable. In my Panama thread you will hear me saying my stay there has convinced me to put up some liquor. And ammo has assumed a new level of value in our society. I would not trade food, as hungry people are desperate people and I don't want them to know I have a surplus of food, though they would likely guess there is no reason to put it out there. I think this is exactly right. America has NEVER been like any other country. Why would our collapse look like anyone else's? Are there lessons from other collapses, from history? Certainly. But I think anyone who thinks OUR collapse will look just like something from recent world experience elsewhere is wrong. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 12:51:51 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes it has. More people have bought guns in the last 20 years than you can imagine. Many of them are not "gun people"....they will figure out just how important ammo is after the fact.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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stuffing money in your mattress is ok short term maybe, but you lose money through inflation at the very least. what is it that you want your 100k to do when and if the shtf? i am trying to get to the point where i dont need a paper medium for exchange. period. there is a world currency allready......Gold / Silver Historically Pms by themselves are not used for trade. If things are that bad, people trade in goods. You can't eat or burn gold. Quoting because so few who love to talk prepping actually understand this concept. Yes, but I don't buy 100% Historically not that many people ever actually have gold or silver to trade with. So did my grandparents do trading of goods during the depression? They say they did. Did they ever even see a gold piece? Not likely,but it had value. Even in the worst of times some are going to be doing better than others. They may not need your chickens, but silver dollars are another story. This situation we are plummeting into is likely to break the mold when it comes to what usually happens. But we already have first hand accounts of gold and silver being traded in this thread. Not that I am saying other trade goods may not be just as valuable. In my Panama thread you will hear me saying my stay there has convinced me to put up some liquor. And ammo has assumed a new level of value in our society. I would not trade food, as hungry people are desperate people and I don't want them to know I have a surplus of food, though they would likely guess there is no reason to put it out there. Yes it has. More people have bought guns in the last 20 years than you can imagine. Many of them are not "gun people"....they will figure out just how important ammo is after the fact.... I think that for the vast majority of the gun buyers, ammo is something they will have very little need of in the event of an economic collapse. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 5:49:01 PM EDT
[#31]
"The retired farmers in this remote region have relatively low pensions compared to other workers, but many get their payments under a special system that allows the Hellenic Postal Agency to deliver the cash directly to their homes."
Maybe I'm missing something, but why are farmers getting government pensions? Are other non-gov't retiree's also getting government pensions? Maybe that is one reason why Greece is broke? |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 6:02:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Well with the 'no' vote firmly in place, I expect this is what's going to happen next. ECB will still stick to their guns and demand repayment. Greece offers payment in form of new currency they will start printing on their own, drachmas of course. ECB refuses this, says payment must be made in euros. Greece says take it or leave but we don't give a shit. Meanwhile drachmas now circulated as official currency in Greece, along with euros too. Drachmas will slowly get inflated all to hell because they can push back the pain of dealing with debt for a good while. As usual the costs of essential goods ranging from food to toilet paper to deoderant will keep rising due to inflation but moreso IIRC Greece has to import a lot of their food too. Those exporters aren't going to want to take drachmas.
What really gets me is when some other member here posted a few days ago that Tsipras made some announcement with a military general standing next to him, and the general spoke about some crap that amounts to just keeping order. When you get the military involved in keeping the rioting down stuff is already on the verge of going hot quick and in this situation it won't take much at all. The fact the mainstream news media is already reporting the supermarkets are already picked thin, hell that tells me that most people don't have but maybe 1 week....2 at the most...of food. Well then what? You've got an entire nation on the verge of starvation. Sure you can ask for UN food aid but it isn't exactly on standby like you're at the express checkout at a grocery store. I really think shit is going to go from bad to worse over there very quickly. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 6:55:11 PM EDT
[#33]
"I lived very well and now I have nothing"
What a dope. This is PRECISELY what the Natural Selection process is all about. Stop the hand wringing... He can figger out a solution -or starve.... Not unlike so many decades ago when everyone was pestered for $$$ to feed the starving forks in ____ and after countless $$$ spent and volunteers and .govs' efforts and treasure, they're STILL starving. Doing the same thing over and over -etc... Natural Selection --are you going to let it work, or constantly pay the price for being 'generous'? Hint- Eventually -it WILL work... 
As far as Greece -currently- Natural Selection is HIGHLY unlikely to be allowed to work. Expect another bailout. Much ado about nothing. Remember the PANIC about -oh the horror- the Ebola Pandemic -right here??? Last year or 2 ago, IIRC Folks over-reacted like idiots, quarantining and refusing to travel, getting all pissy when reality was pointed out? 
In 2 or 3 weeks, likely, the SF will have its panties in a knot for something ENTIRELY different, hiding like children in their ammo forts talking abt how many mags they have loaded and witch rifle for SHTF, because of a planet collision or something. Greece will be on the back page. 
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Posted: 7/5/2015 11:48:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"The retired farmers in this remote region have relatively low pensions compared to other workers, but many get their payments under a special system that allows the Hellenic Postal Agency to deliver the cash directly to their homes." Maybe I'm missing something, but why are farmers getting government pensions? Are other non-gov't retiree's also getting government pensions? Maybe that is one reason why Greece is broke? In the US we call it social security. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 1:18:39 AM EDT
[#35]
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In the US we call it social security. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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"The retired farmers in this remote region have relatively low pensions compared to other workers, but many get their payments under a special system that allows the Hellenic Postal Agency to deliver the cash directly to their homes." Maybe I'm missing something, but why are farmers getting government pensions? Are other non-gov't retiree's also getting government pensions? Maybe that is one reason why Greece is broke? In the US we call it social security. Our Social Security is an annuity funded by dedicated payments collected by the IRS. It was actually originally called the "Old Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance". Even though Congress has borrowed from the fund and needs to be addressed, my payments will be from my money. What I was wondering is if the pension programs in many of the EU countries are from funded annuities or from the largesse of the government promised to garner votes. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 1:59:07 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our Social Security is an annuity funded by dedicated payments collected by the IRS. It was actually originally called the "Old Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance". Even though Congress has borrowed from the fund and needs to be addressed, my payments will be from my money. What I was wondering is if the pension programs in many of the EU countries are from funded annuities or from the largesse of the government promised to garner votes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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"The retired farmers in this remote region have relatively low pensions compared to other workers, but many get their payments under a special system that allows the Hellenic Postal Agency to deliver the cash directly to their homes." Maybe I'm missing something, but why are farmers getting government pensions? Are other non-gov't retiree's also getting government pensions? Maybe that is one reason why Greece is broke? In the US we call it social security. Our Social Security is an annuity funded by dedicated payments collected by the IRS. It was actually originally called the "Old Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance". Even though Congress has borrowed from the fund and needs to be addressed, my payments will be from my money. What I was wondering is if the pension programs in many of the EU countries are from funded annuities or from the largesse of the government promised to garner votes. You are correct that SS is part of your own earnings saved via a tax. Okay they've screwed that up but that is the basic idea. And your question is valid but I don't know the answer. I know that lots of the left likes the idea of everyone getting payments from the government ( income redistribution ) whether they work or not. Hell we're practically there in the US now. I'll bet the Greeks have a real complicated system but there is probably a lot of very generous payments for a lot of people. About 5 years ago I heard a long investigative program on the Greek situation by PBS (I know, I know-but it was good). The EU had just sent a team of top level people to go to Greece to implement some of the agreed to reforms. The top EU guy was not a politician but a very high level technocrat. He got to the Greek department of accounting that was supposed to keep track of all Government department assets and spending etc. The EU people kept finding tons of stuff in Greece, whole institutions and train lines and stuff that was actually owned and run by the Government but was "off the books". It wasn't that they were hiding revenue which could kind of make sense in a criminal way, the problem was non of the stuff made any money or even paid for itself. Yeah it gave people jobs, but it was mostly busy work on a huge scale. Eventually the Greeks got pissed (they were stalling and denying and deflecting etc.) and they started to get Thuggish with the EU people. It was amazing. The Greeks had PI's follow the EU people everywhere and had computer people HACK the personal emails of the top guy and his lawyer. It got ugly. Real ugly. Bottom line is that the agreed to reforms were not implemented as intended. Just looking for some basic waste to cut or inefficiencies elicited such behavior by high level Greek Gov't employees. Goes to show you what will happen here if we EVER try to reduce the US Government by 1% or 3% or something. People will get beat up, their homes burned etc...Jesus.... |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 7:52:43 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our Social Security is an annuity funded by dedicated payments collected by the IRS. It was actually originally called the "Old Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance". Even though Congress has borrowed from the fund and needs to be addressed, my payments will be from my money. What I was wondering is if the pension programs in many of the EU countries are from funded annuities or from the largesse of the government promised to garner votes. Found an EU publication if you are interested. http://ec.europa.eu/employment_social/empl_portal/SSRinEU/Your%20social%20security%20rights%20in%20Greece_en.pdf In the applying for benefits section, they mention presenting a "contributors card" so it appears they do have money withheld from their income. The benefits and payouts sections reads much like the US Social security program. The range of the amount of payments is also similar to the U.S. system. It is very convoluted (probably on purpose), much like the US system. The document is from 2013, and looks like when the EU was formed they created a standard system for all member countries, so, no telling what each individual country had going on before that. As an aside, studies have shown most people in the US will receive more from Social Security than they paid in. ETA: I am approaching retirement, so I have been reading and trying to learn as much as I can about SS/Medicare.
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Posted: 7/6/2015 8:14:30 AM EDT
[#38]
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... As an aside, studies have shown most people in the US will receive more from Social Security than they paid in. Meaning, presumably, that those who paid in the most (via income-based withholding) will benefit from it the least. Redistribution of wealth, penalizing productivity. Gotta love it. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 9:21:45 AM EDT
[#39]
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Meaning, presumably, that those who paid in the most (via income-based withholding) will benefit from it the least. Redistribution of wealth, penalizing productivity. Gotta love it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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... As an aside, studies have shown most people in the US will receive more from Social Security than they paid in. Meaning, presumably, that those who paid in the most (via income-based withholding) will benefit from it the least. Redistribution of wealth, penalizing productivity. Gotta love it. Not necessarily, the higher your wages, the higher your monthly payment, but you still get more than you paid in. The study that I read showed the average person gets about 1/3 more than they paid in. But, they would have done a lot better if the money would have been invested in a 401k. The average SS recipient receives about $1,300.00/mo - gross. I say gross because there can be taxes taken out and they have to pay for Medicare Part B (around $350.mo) |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 11:02:32 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well with the 'no' vote firmly in place, I expect this is what's going to happen next. ECB will still stick to their guns and demand repayment. Greece offers payment in form of new currency they will start printing on their own, drachmas of course. ECB refuses this, says payment must be made in euros. Greece says take it or leave but we don't give a shit. Meanwhile drachmas now circulated as official currency in Greece, along with euros too. Drachmas will slowly get inflated all to hell because they can push back the pain of dealing with debt for a good while. As usual the costs of essential goods ranging from food to toilet paper to deoderant will keep rising due to inflation but moreso IIRC Greece has to import a lot of their food too. Those exporters aren't going to want to take drachmas. What really gets me is when some other member here posted a few days ago that Tsipras made some announcement with a military general standing next to him, and the general spoke about some crap that amounts to just keeping order. When you get the military involved in keeping the rioting down stuff is already on the verge of going hot quick and in this situation it won't take much at all. The fact the mainstream news media is already reporting the supermarkets are already picked thin, hell that tells me that most people don't have but maybe 1 week....2 at the most...of food. Well then what? You've got an entire nation on the verge of starvation. Sure you can ask for UN food aid but it isn't exactly on standby like you're at the express checkout at a grocery store. I really think shit is going to go from bad to worse over there very quickly. Something like that could happen, but I tihnk there's more than one possible outcome. In the one you describe, Greece leaves and basically goes bankrup and leaves the EU. Several bad things happen here for everyone. First, the Troika doesnt get paid. While Germany can keep a hard line, getting a new deal is better than not getting paid at all and getting 0 (zero) money back. Not only are you not getting paid, the EU basically fails by losing one of its countries. This weakens the EU a great deal, and sure isnt worth the cost of giving Greece a better deal. Finally, with Greece leaving, printing its own money and maybe becoming pals with Russia things will sure suck for a couple years but eventually they'll get back on their feet. As you descibe, you would have the Dracma along with significant inflation and a parallel market hungry for Euros. Imports would be much more expensive. This isnt exaclty good, but it isnt all bad either and ti promotes national industry. This sucks, but it doesnt suck for the people any more than their already crappy situation. Eventually with a low value Dracma Greece becomes a great choice for vacations, maybe even investing. If there's something European love is cheap holydays. Greece could well offer that with a cheap Dracma. And here is where the EU REALLY doesnt want to end up: With a country that left he EU, and in maybe a year or two is happy and even starting to look pretty good as it starts to stand on its own two feet. What I'm explaning here is no big secret and the Troika knows this well. If I had to pick an otucome, I think that even though both are possible, the most likely one is that the Troika reaches an agreement with Greece. The Greek minister of finance already resigned, a requirement by Germany no doubt. The IMF is all for an agreement. The Greek people called the bluff by voting no adn basically burned the ship for any other option, so everyone either sits down to the table and plays nice or we go to hell, but we drag you along with us as well. FerFAL |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 11:29:49 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our Social Security is an annuity funded by dedicated payments collected by the IRS. It was actually originally called the "Old Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance". Even though Congress has borrowed from the fund and needs to be addressed, my payments will be from my money. What I was wondering is if the pension programs in many of the EU countries are from funded annuities or from the largesse of the government promised to garner votes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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"The retired farmers in this remote region have relatively low pensions compared to other workers, but many get their payments under a special system that allows the Hellenic Postal Agency to deliver the cash directly to their homes." Maybe I'm missing something, but why are farmers getting government pensions? Are other non-gov't retiree's also getting government pensions? Maybe that is one reason why Greece is broke? In the US we call it social security. Our Social Security is an annuity funded by dedicated payments collected by the IRS. It was actually originally called the "Old Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance". Even though Congress has borrowed from the fund and needs to be addressed, my payments will be from my money. What I was wondering is if the pension programs in many of the EU countries are from funded annuities or from the largesse of the government promised to garner votes. Actually, no. OASDI or Social Security has NEVER been a "retirement fund" or an annuity whereby you pay in while you earn and get that back when you retire. It's NEVER worked that way, even from inception. Current payments to retirees are supposed to be paid by people who are currently still working. It is and always has been a Ponzi scheme requiring more payors than payees. The problem today is that there aren't enough people working to cover the costs of payments to retirees. And, with the Baby Boomers turning 65 in droves, it will get much, much worse. So, either the taxes on those still working will have to rise dramatically to cover the costs, or, the amount of the benefits being paid out will have to be reduced. Those are the only two options sort of eliminating the program entirely. And, btw, the disability payments that now fall under the Social Security umbrella have skyrocketed under Ocommie as well, something for which there is no tax being paid by workers for. If I read the Greece approach correctly, it is similar to our SS only more generous. So, it is not a big surprise that they have a problem with their budget. Being unable to print money like we do, their debt load became untenable long before ours will. But make no mistake, if we don't get our $hit together, we'll end up one big giant Greece. 
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Posted: 7/6/2015 11:40:39 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually, no. OASDI or Social Security has NEVER been a "retirement fund" or an annuity whereby you pay in while you earn and get that back when you retire. It's NEVER worked that way, even from inception. Current payments to retirees are supposed to be paid by people who are currently still working. It is and always has been a Ponzi scheme requiring more payors than payees. The problem today is that there aren't enough people working to cover the costs of payments to retirees. And, with the Baby Boomers turning 65 in droves, it will get much, much worse. So, either the taxes on those still working will have to rise dramatically to cover the costs, or, the amount of the benefits being paid out will have to be reduced. Those are the only two options sort of eliminating the program entirely. And, btw, the disability payments that now fall under the Social Security umbrella have skyrocketed under Ocommie as well, something for which there is no tax being paid by workers for. If I read the Greece approach correctly, it is similar to our SS only more generous. So, it is not a big surprise that they have a problem with their budget. Being unable to print money like we do, their debt load became untenable long before ours will. But make no mistake, if we don't get our $hit together, we'll end up one big giant Greece. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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"The retired farmers in this remote region have relatively low pensions compared to other workers, but many get their payments under a special system that allows the Hellenic Postal Agency to deliver the cash directly to their homes." Maybe I'm missing something, but why are farmers getting government pensions? Are other non-gov't retiree's also getting government pensions? Maybe that is one reason why Greece is broke? In the US we call it social security. Our Social Security is an annuity funded by dedicated payments collected by the IRS. It was actually originally called the "Old Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance". Even though Congress has borrowed from the fund and needs to be addressed, my payments will be from my money. What I was wondering is if the pension programs in many of the EU countries are from funded annuities or from the largesse of the government promised to garner votes. Actually, no. OASDI or Social Security has NEVER been a "retirement fund" or an annuity whereby you pay in while you earn and get that back when you retire. It's NEVER worked that way, even from inception. Current payments to retirees are supposed to be paid by people who are currently still working. It is and always has been a Ponzi scheme requiring more payors than payees. The problem today is that there aren't enough people working to cover the costs of payments to retirees. And, with the Baby Boomers turning 65 in droves, it will get much, much worse. So, either the taxes on those still working will have to rise dramatically to cover the costs, or, the amount of the benefits being paid out will have to be reduced. Those are the only two options sort of eliminating the program entirely. And, btw, the disability payments that now fall under the Social Security umbrella have skyrocketed under Ocommie as well, something for which there is no tax being paid by workers for. If I read the Greece approach correctly, it is similar to our SS only more generous. So, it is not a big surprise that they have a problem with their budget. Being unable to print money like we do, their debt load became untenable long before ours will. But make no mistake, if we don't get our $hit together, we'll end up one big giant Greece. "So, either the taxes on those still working will have to rise dramatically to cover the costs, or, the amount of the benefits being paid out will have to be reduced. Those are the only two options sort of eliminating the program entirely." P-M, you're smarter than that... Deficit spending will be increased as it has been all along...
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Posted: 7/6/2015 11:46:13 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"So, either the taxes on those still working will have to rise dramatically to cover the costs, or, the amount of the benefits being paid out will have to be reduced. Those are the only two options sort of eliminating the program entirely." P-M, you're smarter than that... Deficit spending will be increased as it has been all along...
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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"The retired farmers in this remote region have relatively low pensions compared to other workers, but many get their payments under a special system that allows the Hellenic Postal Agency to deliver the cash directly to their homes." Maybe I'm missing something, but why are farmers getting government pensions? Are other non-gov't retiree's also getting government pensions? Maybe that is one reason why Greece is broke? In the US we call it social security. Our Social Security is an annuity funded by dedicated payments collected by the IRS. It was actually originally called the "Old Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance". Even though Congress has borrowed from the fund and needs to be addressed, my payments will be from my money. What I was wondering is if the pension programs in many of the EU countries are from funded annuities or from the largesse of the government promised to garner votes. Actually, no. OASDI or Social Security has NEVER been a "retirement fund" or an annuity whereby you pay in while you earn and get that back when you retire. It's NEVER worked that way, even from inception. Current payments to retirees are supposed to be paid by people who are currently still working. It is and always has been a Ponzi scheme requiring more payors than payees. The problem today is that there aren't enough people working to cover the costs of payments to retirees. And, with the Baby Boomers turning 65 in droves, it will get much, much worse. So, either the taxes on those still working will have to rise dramatically to cover the costs, or, the amount of the benefits being paid out will have to be reduced. Those are the only two options sort of eliminating the program entirely. And, btw, the disability payments that now fall under the Social Security umbrella have skyrocketed under Ocommie as well, something for which there is no tax being paid by workers for. If I read the Greece approach correctly, it is similar to our SS only more generous. So, it is not a big surprise that they have a problem with their budget. Being unable to print money like we do, their debt load became untenable long before ours will. But make no mistake, if we don't get our $hit together, we'll end up one big giant Greece. "So, either the taxes on those still working will have to rise dramatically to cover the costs, or, the amount of the benefits being paid out will have to be reduced. Those are the only two options sort of eliminating the program entirely." P-M, you're smarter than that... Deficit spending will be increased as it has been all along...
Maybe, right up to the point where that doesn't work any more, which I am suspecting will be sooner rather than later. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 11:58:44 PM EDT
[#44]
Of course...
I'm beginning to think the deficit party will go on far longer than most expect. |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 12:47:46 AM EDT
[#45]
A collapse here would be most akin to that of the former USSR where everyone went scrambling for the nukes and pensioners lost everything. A black market thrived and so did crime. If the nukes don't get let loses we should be fine after 10 years or so but it'll be an interesting 10 years. If the nukes get grabbed well then Things get sporty.
Still don't see a collapse happening here as to believe one would happen would be to sell the politicians and bankers short on their ability to dream up new and interesting illegal schemes to foist on people in the name of stability and security. So yes I still max out my 401k contributions. |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 7:56:24 AM EDT
[#46]
Greece...
And yet....whos watching chinas market fall even more over the last week??? Anyone... But hey lets worry about greece...they are a world power house economy after all...greece falls we all fall...right lol Epxy is right ...in two weeks itll be: Chinas market decilne P.ricos waving off debt Racical tensions in chicago. And a bunch of guys will panic buy...ask stupid shit like "300black vs 762 " and drop money on more useless shit. Who here dropped 200$ in seeds or redundant water systems...or AE... Or gasp paid off debt to buy a bol or gasp move to a more sustainable location. Ill wager less than 1%! But hands will be wrung...mags will be loaded and well have more threads on the small burps of the world instead of the real issues... |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 8:40:53 AM EDT
[#47]
Protus / Expy - Bingo.
Buying cool new gadgets is always more interesting than actually getting oneself prepared to deal with hard times. If I lived in Greece, or held their debt, this would be a big concern. As it is, not so much. I am more concerned about our current administration deciding to hand out big "bailouts" or aid to Greece that we can't afford, than how Greece deals with their own debt problems. China and Russia are still the ones to be concerned about, if one wants to sweat over foreign countries and the future. |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 9:00:43 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Greece... And yet....whos watching chinas market fall even more over the last week??? Anyone... But hey lets worry about greece...they are a world power house economy after all...greece falls we all fall...right lol Epxy is right ...in two weeks itll be: Chinas market decilne P.ricos waving off debt Racical tensions in chicago. And a bunch of guys will panic buy...ask stupid shit like "300black vs 762 " and drop money on more useless shit. Who here dropped 200$ in seeds or redundant water systems...or AE... Or gasp paid off debt to buy a bol or gasp move to a more sustainable location. Ill wager less than 1%! But hands will be wrung...mags will be loaded and well have more threads on the small burps of the world instead of the real issues... I don't think that most here on this board is ignoring any of that. But lets be honest, the fall of Greece is much more dynamic. We see the people and their suffering. We see the riots. We read about the food shortages and see the pictures of the things that could happen here. It is only natural that there is going to be more interest in events like that. I am not sure that anyone thinks of Greece as a powerhouse nor that their fall alone will mean anything. I believe like most, that it is one of the signs of the beginning of a world economical downturn, not the root cause. I get you are getting burned out on these threads, as evidenced by recent posts and comments. However this is what this is all about to me, we talk about world issues that may affect us. We get a little tin foiley from time to time...this is like a safe place to do that. Yes, some threads are more valuable than others when it comes to actual preparedness. Food storage, emergency supplies, and being prepared are far more important than a remote island going under. I for one don't mind the discussions about this stuff even if they are repeated. I learn a lot from these threads even if 90% of a thread is just hot air there is always something that makes me go off and do some research. What makes me sad is an influx of GD like comments that seem to be rising. I don't mind lightheartedness or jokes but the asinine stuff needs to stay in general discussion. |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 9:05:45 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Greece... And yet....whos watching chinas market fall even more over the last week??? Anyone... But hey lets worry about greece...they are a world power house economy after all...greece falls we all fall...right lol Epxy is right ...in two weeks itll be: Chinas market decilne P.ricos waving off debt Racical tensions in chicago. And a bunch of guys will panic buy...ask stupid shit like "300black vs 762 " and drop money on more useless shit. Who here dropped 200$ in seeds or redundant water systems...or AE... Or gasp paid off debt to buy a bol or gasp move to a more sustainable location. Ill wager less than 1%! But hands will be wrung...mags will be loaded and well have more threads on the small burps of the world instead of the real issues...  .ETA: Oh, How could I forget the $1200 I spent on the 316 tractor for the garden? I haven't even started getting attachments and ag tires for it yet |
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Posted: 7/8/2015 9:15:31 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... Who here dropped 200$ in seeds or redundant water systems...or AE... 
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