....For starting conversations about prepping with my kids.  They saw through the bs pretty much right away, but they started asking pretty good questions.  

They know we aren't nutjobs like many of the folks on the show.  It really didn't discourage them at all.  It just reinforced some of the ideals we have had all along.

Without the nutjobs and felons, the show wouldn't have lasted 1 season.

Did FAR more damage than good.
Making survivalist look like crazy people was bad enough, but the ridcule, that's pretty much impossible to recover from.
FerFAL

I disagree FerFAL

our rep was allready trashed.

I have watched maybe like 10 episodes and everyone was 95% tard but I can get at least one good thing out of every episode i watched.
and that is good for me.

amongst the plebs, survivalist's and prepper's are two different things.

prepper is neutral in the eyes of the people that are not, but hear that I am one.
I would never call myself a survivalist.  That is for sure, a pejorative.  

EDIT:   now that i think of it we should change the name of this forum to preparing forum.  

Couldn't disagree more on the survivalist vs. "prepper" comment.

SURVIVALISTS never had a weekly show featuring people that make us all look like clowns.

"Survivalist" now is more connected with outdoor "survival" shows than suburbanites preparing for rabid zombie polar bears to appear after the "big one" hits via a "CME".

So so many just terrible, like WTF were you thinking? "examples" on that show it's unbelievable. The tards in Florida with the "we will hang people that break the rules" BS. The family moving from Florida to TN without any decent plan and the Mom trying to scare the kids with thoughts of them "floating away when Florida is 6 foot under water."

YOU SHOULDN'T SAY STUPID CRAP LIKE THAT ON TV. Even if you don't give a rip that you look like a tard, give a damn that you are making others stupid by association.

Where the people don't hang themselves with their stupid stuff (mr. "King of survival" weld a shovel and hammer together to try to make money retard SHOOTING HIMSELF ON CAMERA), watch for the film crew and editors to pick up the slack via cutting in a clip of an uninterested child or spouse while the main character rants about zombie polar bears or how a tsunami is going to destroy Kansas...

Said back in 2006 when some of us starting getting invites from producers and sweet talkers like Brook that this wasn't going to do the movement any good.

From the mouths of babes-

So for a long time we were involved with a small group of kids at a para church organization. Figure about 10-13 year old kids. We usually talked with them and let them talk a bit when they first got in to let them get settled down. So one night they start talking about TV shows they all watch. Doomsday Dunskies came up in conversation. I was asked if we watch that show.

"Naaah, we don't have regular TV. What is it?"   (The part of my brain that's interested in psychology was tweaked at this point, to see how the kids would describe it)

"Aaaahhh man, it's these FREAKS that think the world is ending and they got like guns and ammo.."
(another kid) "yeah and they build like bomb shelters and canned food."

Me- "Whhaaaatt? That's crazy! Why do they do that?"

"They are like freaking out that tidal waves are going to hit them and stuff like that, they are FREAKS. They are called PREPPERS."

Me- "yall watch this by yourself? Is it scary? Your parents let you watch this?"

"My parents watch it too, it's not scary, it's DUMB, those people are freaks."

I thought about all these people thinking they are "educating" the GDP when they talk to regular people about preparing. I wish all of them could have heard this convo. I was very pleased that my whole family was there and all played along with the "huh what's that?" deal right off the bat.

That's what the general public thinks about that show and those "freaks."

Want to keep telling the GDP about prepping? LOL  

For a while now I have thought that it would be beneficial to have both a survival AND a preparedness forum. One home for the people who see conspiracies behind everything, remove themselves from society to live in remote isolation, live in fear of and plan for low probability events, think of PMs as investments, generally view themselves as more hardcore and worthy of being the leaders in a world reshaped by calamity, etc and then another for those of us who are more interested in enjoying a fuller life while maintaining readiness for that life's more common pitfalls.

that show presents preppers as nutjobs, I don't really watch it.  if you want something useful, go on youtube, lots of practical stuff out there that you can implement into your preps.  

I don't get too into it.  we're in hurricane country as well as ice storm, tornado country.  I have about a months supply of food/water and basic medical/hygene stuff just in case.  if anything permanent comes along, i'll deal with it when it gets here.  and of course i'm stock up on guns/ammo.

I was watching Z-Nation (not bad for Sy-Fy channel, which makes HORRIBLE shows), and there was a point where someone got injured and they needed some emergency bandages and such.  My wife, who was not watching, but was, says, "I should get something like that together, in case there is ever an injury."

I told her I was wayyy ahead of her, and had it covered.

Huh??   I kinda lost ya.   can you rephrase in a couple sentences for my small brain.  
I truly want to understand.



I know the wacko in the PA woods is branded a survivalist and not a prepper.  
I would prefer the prepper nom de guerre.

The bottom line is because of that stupid show, people understand "prepper" to mean goofy suburbanite stocking food planning for end of the world.

As I said on the survivalist vs. prepper terminology- "survivalists" never had a WEEKLY SHOW devoted to making them look like idiots.

Yes, it's all semantics- to a point. However for someone that has been in and around this movement for almost 3 decades, there is some clear fundamental changes that have occurred.

Exactly.

My kids were yelling at the idiots on the screen, then we discussed the good and lots and lots of bad in each groups ideas. Good conversations. Glad we watched it even with all the fools.

So did I `Bronz....but I learned not to watch that steaming piece of horseshit show from day one.

(absolutley no reflection on you `bro )

I will agree on the point, it's a TV show that brings up the topic easily and brings up discussion very well.


But they are all retarded, and after season 1, it's mostly bullshit drama

Survivalists may not have a weekly show, but they have been made fun of for quite a while.

Anyone remember the movie "survivors" with Robin Williams & Walter Matthau?

thanks for the clarification

i dont mind if people underestimate me and think i am goofy.

Pretty accurate distinction.

In my mind, "survivalist' is mostly a political term. Conspiratorial politics, they consider the John Birch Society to be generally correct but too left-leaning. Guns are the center of their prep strategy. Low probability events are the only ones worth planning for---prepared for the zombie apocalypse = prepared for anything, etc. Regularly use the term "sheeple."

"Preparedness" I see as a less politically charged term. More oriented to higher probability, short-term events. More focus on mundane stuff like gardening and home canning, less focus on how to fight the roving bands of ghetto goblins once the "balloon goes up."

"Survivalist" is basically a holdover from Cold War era nuclear armageddon concerns. Preparedness is much broader and doesn't require subscribing to political newsletters. Too bad NatGeo decided to shit all over the term with their fictional series, though I'll admit I do sometimes find it entertaining.

Holy shit......and were off on the survivalist are camo clad Bunker dwellers and "preppers "" are NORMAL "everyday people who prepare.


Fuck me...8 years ago all the folks that clung...or shall I say jumped on to the prepper wagon...were saying the same shit.
How many stupid fucking threads did we have saying dress like the cell phone Guy (greyman)  shit an prepper "_-prepping is water cooler at work post.
Back then some of us...said that once the media gets whole of It...the term """prepper "" will be looked at just like the term survivalist ....NO...NO PROTUS you WRONG...was the battle cry....

Is not natgeos fault...its stupid ego /pride hungry retards. People who only started getting into preparing /survivalism AFTER the elections and some not till Katina.
Thee same people were clueless prior to those events but now are experts!!!  Yeah experts at looking like fuck tards.

Here's an idea...instead of blogging...or starting some get rich online store or regurgitating ole info on to paper (or e -book) ...learn not to blow your fucking thumb off on TV...learn not to shoot in an enclose structure with no ear pro....
And for fucks sake learn that having five different calibers across the board is logiatis nightmare...

Preppers have brought this media shit slide on themselves by jumping head 1st into a lifestyle by tossing more eyes at it and not thinking things through. Back in the 1990 s you didn't just hop on the ole internet and read a list of what went into a Ruck (bug out bag what's that) ....you learned what to put in it....
Oh you didn't know which rifle is best shtf???  You read magazine reviews our used what you had and learned the hard way.

Today its rick click save PDF to smart phone /tablet ...research buy...shove in closet and move to the next item on the 100 things you need to survive (only 19.99$ four easy payments and free shipping if you order now) .

Stop projecting labels on shit trying to be different....just because you slap a bunch of magpul shit in dark dirt brown on a Sks doesn't make it an an AR does it???  


Eta :fucking typo s get used to it.




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Well as I said- as someone who has been in this movement for almost three decades, I can tell you there IS some fundamental differences between even the 1990's era preparedness minded folks and people now.

People now- "why do I NEED a gas mask?" Then Ebola pops up....Then dude spends six months "researching" it....

People then- "course I have a gas mask, got one for the kids and if they made one for the dogs I'd have that also. Digging a fallout shelter in the backyard."

People now- "I've been RESEARCHING food storage for 3 years now. Ready.gub says I should have two weeks of food so I don't get hungry while they are organizing the camps."

People then- "Of course I have a year supply of food, just like the pioneers did. Besides if their is nukes or NBC agents, it may be a year or more before we can safely grow more."

People now- "Well I bought six different rifles, I haven't shot 5 of them and one I shot four times. Ammo is just so expensive, I have 10,000 rounds in storage but I don't want to waste any in actual use."

People then- "I have a backup to my main rifle of the same type along with spare parts. I maintain a minimum of 5,000 rounds and have been to Gunsite twice, TDI three times, I get out with the family once a month or so and practice. I know I need to be proficient with weapons not just HAVE them."


People then- "I met some like minded guys through ASG and gunshows. All are low key family types concerned about where the economy is going. We meet every month and train together and are making plans to meet up at one of the guy's farm if something happens. It's tough at times because I want to put myself first and be selfish, but I realize that my family's survival requires a team of people that have prepared ahead of time and know how to work, fight and live together. I don't always agree with everything others say and I'm sure they don't always agree with me, but we try to keep ego out of it and work towards a common goal."

People now- "Well yeah it would be nice to have a group, but that's too much work. I read this fiction story about this guy that  organized his subdivision and they all bowed down to him and he became the savior of the subdivision, so I figure since my wife won't let me do crap and their is no way we are moving outside the city here, my best bet is to talk to some of these people that I don't know or  like in my subdivision after things go bad and get them all to work together. They won't have anything and I'm damned sure not sharing anything of mine with them, but I'll tell them where to steal crap so they can eat and use them for defense. I have some extra Mosin Nagants I bought for $40. and I'll use those to arm everyone. They'll be so thankful to work for me."


People now- "I bought my wife a ring and she LET ME buy a few rolls of toilet paper for our stocks!" She says I'm crazy for preparing and makes fun of me constantly and tells the kids not to listen to me. But one day Oprah is going to talk about preparedness and that will get my wife "on board!"

People then- "My family is my biggest asset, the wife helps with the food storage, we all put up our firewood for the year together and work on projects around the house regularly. Sure we have issues like most families do, but we know how to work together. They come out and practice with me regularly. They aren't interested in conspiracy theories and neither am I. There is enough REAL ISSUES right in front of our faces to concern ourselves with. We prepare cause it makes sense, not because we fear some crazy event. We went almost a year without an income source a few years back and did well- the cash and food we have been setting aside and the fact that we don't have a mortgage or many bills saved our bacon."




All of these are based on things you could read on internet forums or for the "people then" based on in person, phone and mail convos from "the long long ago" aka the 80's and 90's.

Yes my friend, a lot HAS changed.

And FWIW, I'll take one Robin Williams movie pretty much no one saw 30+ years ago over a WEEKLY show showcasing the word "prepper" and tying it in with (at times) some really sketchy folks that: scare their kids and wives, shoot their thumbs off ("King of survival" LMAO) and do smart things like talk about their "secret" preps on national TV while the construction company is there installing them in their Phoenix subdivision for all to see.....

I'm a PMI (preparedness minded individual) ....in urban dark earth of course...and I approve of the above post (paid in part by the protus for survival master 2016 fund) ......


:p


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

People like you are the problem, the ones who make the word "Survivalist" to have a malignant connotation.  Years ago when there was only the Survival Forum, there were no issues, but narrow minded people like yourself just automated judged us and lumped us in with Alex Jones, Sovereign Citizens nutjobs.

Blame yourself.

Preppers are normal people damn it...


I think most actually feel what there doing is something new that no one else ever did before Obama LOL


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Blame myself for what? Other people taking a good thing to the point of irrationality? How could I be responsible for that?

And I think that is something that extremists probably assume (likely often wrongfully so) and tell themselves to rationalize some of their beliefs, decisions and behaviors.

So in your eyes a person who is debt free..trains...and moves to the country is ""crazy "" while the Guy who lives five minutes from Wally mart...has two weeks of can goods but is upside down in home...car and credit debt due to "living a full " life is "normal.....




Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

In my eyes those are not the only alternatives that one is limited to.

The rest of us recognize that as a false dichotomy.

And either of your chosen examples could be representative of imbalance.

True...but what is that Balance


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Not a bad show if you look past all the crazy people.  Some good info can be gotten if you look.  I do agree, for the most part it makes people who are prepared look like idiots.  Myself, I was an Eagle Scout and the Boy Scout motto is "Be Prepared" so I have my excuse.  

That is for each of us to determine on an individual level.

What works for some people and brings them comfort, security and contentment might have the exact opposite effect on others.

Advocating bankets statements and condemnations one way of the other about where to live, credit, firearm training and myriad other topics are rarely useful or even appropriate. I have been guilty of this as well. But as I grow older, I realize I didn't always know as much as I thought I did. There are a lot of ways to get through life. And there is nothing wrong with enjoying the ride. That may be a difference between thriving and merely surviving.

Meh, I'm not the one claiming that “preppers” only got interested in preparedness after Obama got elected. The natural conclusion being there are “real survivalists” and wannabe preppers who just buy stuff and put it in the closet.

I just said I prefer the term preparedness to survivalism, the latter has baggage, whether you like it or not, and no, it's not "the media's fault," not most of it at least.  Preparedness is more broad and doesn't require subscribing to paranoid anti-government political ideologies or focusing on guns to the near exclusion of all else (not that all self-styled survivalists do, but it's a not insignificant part of the movement). I don't call myself a prepper, but if I had to choose between the two, I certainly wouldn't call myself a survivalist.

I love guns, I love shooting them, and I'm prepared to use them in self-defense, but when it comes to the topic of preparedness, I'm personally more interested in self-sufficiency, homesteading-type stuff. I have little interest in the running-and-gunning fantasies about the imminent civil war, roving bands of looters, and the total collapse of our civilization that have been central to the “survivalist” narrative for decades. I did when I first got into this stuff around 2000-2001, but I've matured since then.

Things were so much better back in the day, yada yada yada. Remember Kurt Saxon, the guy who claims to have coined the term “survivalist” back in the '70s? Prolific book writer, prolific newsletter writer, prolific hawker of bullshit. He'd fit right in these days. LOL

His discussion of “retreater” vs. “survivalist” sounds familiar...

Yep Kurt Saxon had a lot of fantasies as a lot of writers do today also. I'm confused, this has what to do with your argument?  Or just a gig like the "things were better back in the day" gig?

I was pointing out the VERY TRUE differences between then and now.

If you think NatGeo's show HELPS the movement still, after three seasons of disgrace..... Well your missing the glaringly obvious I guess.

And BTW, have you ever MET their casting agent? We've been hounded by her more than a few times. Do you suppose she is "like minded" or is looking to "help" the movement?  Ahhh yeah.

Maybe you haven't been given one of their questionaires they give out at preparedness shows? I saved one from a few years back, I'll see if I can find it.

And of course all you have to look at is the FRUIT, even if you miss the blatantly obvious psy ops and marketing. I mean hell EVERY section ends with "Experts saw that while their is a chance of XX happening, it's extremely unlikely..."

We joke that if the show had been going in 04'ish you would have heard endings like

"Experts say that while the Louisiana gulf coast might get a little rain, the chances of their being a strong hurricane to devastate that area is extremely unlikely. And even if that would happen, FEMA and the gubmint would rescue people quickly and restore order."

Or

"Experts say that while housing prices are high and banks are stupid and lending to anyone with a pulse, the chances of a housing bubble popping that drastically affects the economy is extremely unlikely. Sound Fiscal policies by the United States gubmint would surely bring about a rapid recovery..."

LMAO

It was a response to Protus' post:





It seems to me that the more things change, the more they stay the same. The discussion we're having about prepper vs. survivalist is almost exactly what Kurt Saxon was talking about back in 1980.


Never said it did, just said I sometimes find it entertaining. I've only seen the first season and part of the second. Some of them are kooks and/or dumb newbies, but some of those folks actually have some damn impressive preps. And yes, I'm also annoyed by the "expert" commentary at the end. Worse is the scenario the featured family is allegedly prepping for. My understanding is that most of the people on there are just general preppers and not necessarily planning for the obscure, exceptionally improbable event the show says they are.

Folks, while terminology of your titles or public perception may mean something to someone, frankly it doesn't matter. We're all "planners" by nature. Some people think on a short term, desire basis while other think on a long term, necessity basis. I don't share my thoughts with many people, but if asked, I gladly share my opinion on topics such as food storage or preparedness. Having a levelheaded conversation about realistic possibilities will generally yield some form of respect or new found perception they had not thought of before.

I often bring up the example of Sandy since it affected a majority of family and some friends. People were without power for weeks. This often included their heat and water source. Grocery stores were not open in many areas and were sold out of staple foods quite frequently. Transportation was nearly impossible as cars were flooded and unable to be driven. People began thinking with an aggressive survival mentality instead of a more global or community thought process. Generators were being stolen, houses and store fronts robbed, etc. Could this have been avoided if people planned ahead? No, but it sure would make the transition much easier. I normally elaborate a bit more and then get a "Ya know, you're right. I always thought people were just doing it for a zombie apocalypse or some ridiculous thing."

Bottom line is, spread truth and enlighten those that aren't able to see the big picture. I don't mind the stereotype I'm a part of. It doesn't bother me for being a follower of Christ either. Think about it: you're being judged and criticized for planning your future and potential safety. How silly. So be it.

I think you're nuts if you believe doomsday prepers did any of us any favors.
I don't remember who it was that told me about being asked by the producers "where's the crazy stuff?" that summarizes nicely what the show was about.  Showing "crazy" people for the freak show value. When I talked with them several years ago, they had a bit more tact about and and asked "what will we see if we go to your home". I told them they would see how normal we are and how nice and tidy my house was. thats not the answer they where looking for. A short time later I was contact by a director from Netherlands doing a documentary. I did an interview for him, helped him out, took him to one of our shooting classes and arranged for him to go on a ride with a cop in his car showing him around the city and explaining the situation. Now that was a completely different way to go about it. Never saw the documentary but that guy wasn't looking for "crazy".
Prepper to me sounds half baked, and now it also sounds clownish and foolish thanks to Doomsday preppers.  survivalist has a negative connotation as well but it does represent me better. Modern survivalist to me detaches a bit from the old cold war and conspiracy types and puts you more into a position where you focus on current, real events.
FerFAL

Cathan it wasn't directed at you...personally.  


But honestly....in2002.  Where were all the "preppers "...when did you notice the tidal wave of "bloggers " and o er night survival experts.

Heck...I recall reading a book by one (a women..iirc)  who flat out said in her intro she just got into this a year or so ago.
Yet she's writting a book on "how to survive ".
Fuck...as much as I give ferfal shit least he has some credibility compared to that.

Yeah I know back in the day you had bullshiters as well.
Fuck. Ever see Robin Williams movie "the survivors "
Wes Huntley ....that character poked fun at it!!

But its been a tidal wave of bullshit...and most of its because folks are throwing themselves into the lime light for their few minutes of glory.

Lowdown I think I have one of the show applications in my truck still.

And yeah the guys asking /recruiting people for the show ..aren't in it for nothing.
Water brick much LOL Guy had zero idea ....least he got the hint when I nutted up on him asking stupid shit...


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Some of you might be missing my point. It spurred lots of conversations in my house. Mostly about how dumb many of those preppers were and how we are working towards doing things the right way.

Your point wasn't missed ..I mean there's something from everything to learn from. Heck my lil one got a lets make fire from Flint /steel over the weekend ..."oh just like nekid and afraid...." and it was all smiles and effort.

The colony ...remember that show "prepper " benchmark for sure.
Lots of what not to do 's...

Its when you get the "survivalist are X and preppers are Y " that it goes off track.
My beef...honestly is how "preppers " placed themselves on some high horse how they are normal people because they "only " have x (insert item)  and survivalist are nut bags because who needs a years worth of food (or insert other item of choice)  with the typical Sov. Citizen /anti government /militia stereotypes from 1990...
Yet if we go the route like I do and call it like I see it ...its a shit storm.

I know there is different levels not only in skill /experience but also in planning and the persons back ground.
I know be prepared doesn't have age /sex /race boundaries nor social ones.  We all come from different walks.
But its ironic and funny to me to see what many said would happen once "prepper "became mainstream come to fruit. Call it the "told ya so " deal. But it has had some positive things come out of it.
20 years ago you wanted a water filter it was mail order or drive to a REI style store or the local military surplus. Now you drive five minutes to Walmart and walk out with one.

I just don't think the current crop of "preppers " has rounded that learning curve yet..natgeo thrives on it and in a few years when it gets popular again well have them posting stuff like
"Don't ya remember the 2000s...what the media did to "prepper "...just because your calling yourself self reliant individuals (SRIs) copyright protus 2014 :p...wont keep the media your buddy "
And well have these same threads and debates /disagreements on the hair splitting of our movements label lmao.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Personally, I don't care how the media portrays us--I can laugh at the fools, and learn a few things maybe here and there.

I am not doing it for recognition or them, I am doing it for me and the wife.

Gotcha, its a conversation starter and at least got the topic rolling. I still think that the damage it did in comparisson is much, worse but I guess thats one positive aspect.
FerFAL

Cool down the Guiness cause hell must be freezing over with you and I agreeing on some things ;) LOL

Also FWIW their is a lot of BS'ers actively trying to get on that show. One gathering in NC a few years ago we were stuck near "Crookland"  and she was videotaping initial interviews with people that I guess they further pre-select from.

A couple of people that had sat and talked to us extensively about gear, preps, etc. that had said they were just getting involved- and that matched from gear choices, lack of certain things, unfamiliarity with certain supplies, etc. were being "interviewed."  They were asked- on video mind you- questions. Speakers were up speaking in another room so it was quiet enough to hear some of the questions. New guy that didn't have gas masks for his family told her he had a "fallout shelter." "Like a bunker?" he was asked (you know, "bunker" sounds so much more dangerous than fallout shelter right?). Anyways, dude BS'ed the hell out of her for several minutes. Never saw him on the show, guess they either dumped him after the video or went to his place to "see his stuff" and realized he was full of it.

I will agree that the show is entertainment, hell so is Rocky and Bullwinkle- and the survival info is nearly as good. I mean crap you got as much chance of Boris dropping a safe on your head while your walking down the street as some of these scenarios some of these people discuss on there!!!

I find it amusing if it is on dvr and I can fast forward as needed.



I can't watch it without a fair bit of fast forward action.



As far as prepping or survivalist, I work at a place that supplies one meal a shift.  Some meals are rather nasty.



Told one guy he was a prepper, he packed his lunch.



He had to shop before hand to have stuff in the fridge and be able to make that sammich for hauling into work.



It is all in how some folks look at stuff.

I'm sure there is a tidal wave of bullshit, not arguing with you there. Honestly I don't pay much attention to survival blogs or books. I only read a couple survival/preparedness forums any more, though I used to be active in more. Folks on forums tend to talk about what they know and do rather than pontificate from on high.

But like I said, the more things change, the more they stay the same. Check out the rather epic thread at SurvivalistBoards dishing the dirt on some of the old school survivalist writers, how many didn't know shit from Shinola and never practiced what they preached. It's quite humorous.

And I did recently watch Survivors after Robin Williams died, hadn't seen it in years. Not a very good movie, but some of the stuff the main survivalist leader was spouting could have been written on survivalist websites today. Hell, it is written on survivalist websites today LOL

Ahh...ole survivalist boards lmao.
A forum started by my examples above.
The Guy couldn't pack a Bob to save his ass and coulda have been Jeff foxworthys inspiration for "you might be a redneck if....".
His YouTube vids were even worse!

Wes Huntley ha a plan....if it wasn't for that shabby lock on his brief case...LOL

But yeah if a Guy was dealing like that in today's market...he would make money....
(Ohh...wait...there is guys doing that and iirc wasn't /is a few on doomsday preppers - Guy in Fla...underground base /condo Guy etc....LOL) .
I'm sure folks are buying into those deals as its a what if security blanket with minimal effort output. Aka buy your way outta shtf.


What's old is new....

Ill have to check that thread out...I wonder if they compare the past "experts " to "modern " ones....


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Wow.... I just wasted 30 minutes of my life reading that thread..... What a waste.

Kurt Saxon was a nut- REAL SURPRISE THERE! That's a damn revelation!  Couldn't tell that reading any of his stuff or watching 2 minutes of a video from him...I'm guessing the poster is either Kurt himself or Gunkid....

Duncan Long is FOS, another damn revelation!!! I was impressed at 13 reading his "assault rifles" book. At around 19 after some years of training I read his resistance type book- what a frickin joke! Duncan Long the super survivalist? Writing about nuclear war survival but living in the middle part of the country near missile silos? About as much credibility as some of the current crop of authors living in large cities talking about surviving the apocolypse in suburbia without weapons (Kathy Harrison and others).

The poster is a little nutty and his memory is fairly bad, but to people who 95% of were not around then, it probably seems like gospel.  He's mish-mashing 2-3 different fiction stories together, I believe blending Rawles fiction story with One Cigarette After- in any of the 4-5 version of Patriots did I ever see "satanists" mentioned.

Here's a clue- if a "writer" / "survival expert" is afraid to tell you about their FAILURES, they are probably full of $hit. If they tend to use too many acronyms, try to use lofty language to be impressive, that's a clue also. If they act down to earth, they probably are down to earth. If they are not afraid to tell you of THEIR FAILURES, they probably don't have not EXPERIENCED MUCH.

Too often, newer people can't see these things however, and tend to flock towards lofty language, acronyms and similar tricks that smack of quasi professionalism. In the strive for PERFECTIONISM (totally unrealistic) they try to do it just like so and so author/survival expert. Then WHEN they fail they are often crushed- ala "it worked for survival master 4000, if it doesn't work for me I suck." type of thinking. In REALITY, survival master 4000 is sitting in the suburbs just outside a large city, grew a tomato once on his back porch, bought 2 weeks of food and shoots once a year but writes and talks all kinds of shit. You won't find "survival master 4000" at training classes when you attend them, you won't run into him at a public campout or gathering. You might see him at an indoors show where their is little chance he will be asked to teach, demonstrate something, etc. More than likely, you'll just never see him period. He'll be larger than life on the net but totally absent in person.

I can't tell you how many supposed "Rangers" I've known that could not hit the target at 50 yards, that walked by every half camouflaged target on a jungle lane, that set their compass on top of their rifle and could not understand why it would not stop spinning....

Their is fakers and bull$hitters every where in life. Usually you have to "prove" them a bit. Once people get a little experience with preparing, it's usually not hard to see beyond the BS.

Lowdown3

Quick real life synopsis of my past two weeks.......

I prepare for gas to become scarce or expensive.

I got hit hard in a major way on finances the past two weeks.  I seriously couldnt afford gas or milk or flour etc etc.

I had to eat what i had on my shelves.   i went through 11 jerry cans of gas.  rolled all my change.

I am VERY glad I had the gas in my garage (and food)  i like to think i was prepared as best as i could be.  I did not dip into my gold / silver or retirement.  
Did not have to sell any guns but I did begin think about selling some ammo.  If I did not have that gas I would have sold ammo.

I did burn up every other option though.

Since I had gas stored what does that make me in this situation?   just curious,  I dont truly know the answer for sure.  

We need to truly define at some point the differences between prepper and survivalist if there truly is one.

maybe we should begin here.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=survivalist
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=prepper

This sounds like a prime example of why one of your most important preps is 6 months of CASH.

Cash as in FRN's, American dollars. Not numbers in a bank book, not your Roth, not in PM's, CASH in the bank of Serta.

Then cashing in PM's wouldn't become an issue- potentially having to sell at a market low- say you bought gold at $1600. and would maybe get $1200. for it now (but it's not a loss cause it's not an investment LOL). Yes the gas is great and one of the main reasons we keep a quantity of gas- to continue business related driving if necessary. Around the homestead we probably don't use 20 gallons a year cutting grass, running chainsaws, the log splitter, etc. We store more so that if necessary to go and do business and gas isn't available.

Six months of cash enough to pay all your normal bills during that time period can save your butt. We went the better part of a year without hardly any income the first year we moved to the homestead. Thankfully having some cash in savings, no mortgage, food storage and an AE system got us through.

As always, you have both jerks and good people out there. Matt Bracken is a great guy , so is David Crawford. The folks over at Backwoods Home maganize, Dave Duffy and John Silveira, very nice folks. Jack Spirko, good guy too, passionate and knowledgeable about permaculture.  Now that I think about it, there’s one thing most folks I respect within the community have in common.  In general, they are very transparent. They use their real names, show their faces and don’t hide. There’s this survivalist “expert” from Bosnia that goes by an alt, no face, no name, the guy was great sending emails back and forth until I told him I was visiting and was wondering if he would like to grab some coffee and talk. Never heard from him again.
Writing a book isn’t as easy as it looks. As an author, the one thing I can tell you is that its MUCH easier to criticize than it is to get some good writing done. The hard part about writing is doing it well, and managing to do so for 80.000- 100.000 words.
I notice the same thing when it comes to youtube. Again, talking for 30-40 minutes, one full hour non stop in front of a camera? Not easy. It’s a process and it takes hundreds or thousands of attempts to get somewhat good at it. The thing I noticed is that every single time someone leaves negative comments, not just observations or respectful criticism, but remarks that are borderline if not downright insulting, every single time the “expert critic” has 0 videos uploaded of his own. More often than not the comment itself is full of grammatical or conceptual errors.
The survivalistboard link was pretty interesting. I knew about Kurt Saxon but never read his work so I can’t comment on it. Sure, some people write about things they’ve never done before. I don’t have a problem with that. You cant do everything, but what you can do is work, read and research thoroughly the different topics. Granted, too many survival writers have neither an experience to relate nor do they research the topics correctly.
As for those that “pontificate” from the soapbox, like everything else in life you have all sorts of people in the survival or preparedness community. You will come across assholes and you’ll come across very nice people, just like in any other group. I can say I’ve met mostly good people face to face. As of how each person handles himself, again, you have all kinds. I’ve come across authors and well known personalities that I wouldn’t even piss on if they were on fire, the more “holier than thou” they tend to be, the more of a scumbag they end up being when showing their true colors. Just a few weeks ago I was contacted by “survival expert”, a name which 99% of you folks reading this would recognize, with a proposition that made me so uncomfortable, I didn’t even know how to reply. This person claims to be a Christian like so many others, but there wasn’t anything Christian about what he had in mind. That’s one more thing I learned over the years. The more “christian”, the more Self-righteousness and the harder they thump that Bible, the worse they are.
FerFAL

Come on, don't leave us in suspense... You know you want to discuss it or you wouldn't have mentioned it. LOL




The only problem with that is that the reader directly assumes, unless otherwise told that the author/speaker does know WTF he is talking about. Really, why else would he write a book about a subject if he had no experience with it?  That's kinda the thought.

Perfect example- I had to change out my inverter for our alternate energy system. Old one was working fine on the DC side and was inverting to 115AC just fine, but the AC input from genset side was not taking power. I went through the manual, all the meters and tests, etc. Asked around, best answer was "wow you still have an SW4024, you know we are scraping the bottom of the barrel on those parts." Damn. Alright so I pop for a new inverter. Talked with the rep, told him I was looking for something simple to hookup- here's what connections my SW4024 has, are these hookups identical? Sure. OK, drop the coin.

Get it in, get the heavy sucker mounted, DC side good to go, AC out good to go, AC in from genset connections good to go. Genset started, inverter says "qualifying AC" for about 20 minutes. RTFB right? Did that, nada. Thinking to myself- "The old one needed a comm wire from the auto start murphy switch on genset, but where to hook that to the new?" Call up rep, he's not in. Screw it call the manufacturer, fifteen prompts and 3 people later I get Fred. Fred is a tech geek so I figure my chances are 50/50. Fred is consulting manual, referring to manual but not giving me straight answer. Fred finally admits not knowing his butt from an underground bunker... I ask Fred if he has ever INSTALLED one of these. Silence, "well we play around with them in the lab."

HUGE difference between "playing around with something in the lab" and real world applications.

The problem is- "Fred" could have simply told me that UPFRONT and I would have said "Ok thanks for your time Fred" and saved myself a bunch of BS.

We encounter that on the net and survival realm with people regurgitating info that isn't correct, is way outdated, etc. Kinda like the "use handwarmers instead of oxygen absorbers, some six hundred lb. guy that packed two buckets on youtube told me this" Really? Well damn, wonder why the professionals don't use handwarmers???

Basically what I'm saying is that when people don't know WTF they are talking about but the pride/ego issues don't allow them to say "hey listen I'm new to this", they are MISLEADING PEOPLE. Joe Blow NewGuy has no idea and doesn't really have the discernment yet to realize 600 lb. guy on youtube talking about hand warmers has no real long term experience storing food other than around his midline.....

Essentially, authors/writers/teachers have a responsibility to the audience. Can/will someone screw up? Yes. And let's be clear I'm not talking about stupid crap like is 9mm better than .45? AK vs. AR, etc. those are debates and are open to interpretation of the user. The crazy stuff like poor planning ideas, incorrect info on important topics like food storage, etc. that's what I'm referring to.

Can everyone be truly well rounded when it comes to skill sets? No, but you can and should always be learning. I flat out suck on edible and medicinal plants, my auto mechanics are mediocre at best, I've only made soap a couple times, I've only sutured on humans a couple times and the results were none too pretty LOL You get the idea. We ALL have something to "grow" in, but it's important to recognize that and by all means don't put yourself out there as a wine maker if you don't know about yeasts, etc.

What I've noticed is that people tend to put authors and "experts" on a pedestal. That brings unrealistic expectations and to be honest is very immature. There has been training instructors that I've seen people damn near worship, that when you really paid attention, you saw that they were learning themselves also.

There a reason I stopped making YouTube movies. Spent 30 mind filming ...another 2 hours editing ....uploading....
Only to have 100 "your camera is shaking "...."why do you say umm a lot ""  can you do a review on product x instead "
Yip gets annoying as hell. Even more so all of my info is free....no ads....no pop ups etc...just here it is ....enjoy.
Wish I did have 50 cents for each view id be a millionaire LOL .

When you write /film and put yourself out there as the "expert " you need to be honest not only with yourself but to your readers /viewers.  Giving false or untested info will only harm them if they use it.
I understand the idea of say talking about say using a bow drill...show a picture of one a discussing what woods to use. Lil research and bam there's an extra few hundred words in the "fire basics chapter " of the newest book out there...the author is going by tested theroy (of course by others not him /herself) . I think many do this....a lot!!

Good example someone pointed to me a few years ago when prep conferences started popping up.
I get a link of a video from the show. There's this Guy typical khaki bdu /5:11 pants...Polo etc..almost literally word for word teaching people (I'm sure for a fee)  at this show...how to seal Mylar bags.  The Guy pretty much used the same jokes etc that we used when making our film five+ years PRIOR. It was comical but sad. You had a conference room full of people lapping up this "experts " info....

Put that to book form...how to books from the 80 s to now. What's changed besides the gear being used (sans tatics fir combat) ....still gotta boil water or rub sticks...etc etc...
Putting a new twist on it can lead to better results for the reader or worse case turn into nothing but a big ass shopping list for the "new " prepper ..

So many out there over the last 5-8 years have just been flooded with info overload and at the same time many were trying to "separate "themselves from.the "old " info...

Fernando your like that...not being negative but how you say "modern survivalist " its just like that. Not a bad thing but lot of times I don't think many really look to the past not only to learn but to not just reinvent the wheel per say.
The author that can do that ...add their own learned experiences (not researched) can truly move people /motivate them in the correct direction in a way with out being false.

But in the end for many its about the dollar....and that's when it gets diluted.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Remember this movie?



How about the portrayal of this whack job?

I'm certainly familiar with that. I used to write for part of my living, nothing related to survivalism/preparedness, just local historical stuff for a historical society. Writing is like pulling teeth, it's hard as hell to sit down in front a blank page and fill it with something halfway intelligent and intelligible. A lot easier to tear it apart.


If I did Youtube vids, I'd probably disable comments. I've watched a number of your vids, good stuff IMHO. I've made video records of some of my experiments, but nothing I'd want to post on Youtube. I have lots of random skills, but videography is not one of them LOL


What I found interesting about that thread, aside from the fact that many of the early survivalist writers didn't practice what they preached, was just how odd they were. And not just odd, but downright off.


Come on man, you can't leave it at that. What did he want you to do? Dish, dish!