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Posted: 10/2/2014 1:07:32 AM EDT
[#1]
168/175gr Sierra boattail Match King
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Posted: 10/2/2014 1:25:29 AM EDT
[#2]
HP or FMJ?
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Posted: 10/2/2014 1:27:31 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 10/2/2014 1:31:40 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
So I have been thinking with all the bugs coming from Africa and all the the lone wolf bullshit be touted on the news which would be a good 308 round to hold out to a distance? Now keep in mind I have a M1a and a Remmy bolt gun. Thanks Elvis Wich round would NOT do the job? |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 3:56:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
HP or FMJ? HP |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 5:45:01 AM EDT
[#6]
What does the ebola scare have to do with what particular 308 round you load into your rifle.
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Posted: 10/2/2014 6:09:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Dum Dum round with an X carved into it.
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Posted: 10/2/2014 7:36:36 AM EDT
[#8]
The only ammunition in .308 I would not recommend is the kind that is corrosive that misfires. I've only had this problem with old TZ Israeli and surplus Czech S&B ammo. Other than that, so long as your barrel twist will support the bullet weight, it will make big holes.
But if it's ebola you're worried about, I would think about medical prophylactics, disinfectants, and food storage first before ammo. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 7:55:50 AM EDT
[#9]
The best practice (for me) was to match ammo with the rifle, and not depend on any particular ammo for a given "situation".
It took a couple hundred bucks and about a month, but I now know which rifle shoots best with what ammo. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 9:00:01 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only ammunition in .308 I would not recommend is the kind that is corrosive that misfires. I've only had this problem with old TZ Israeli and surplus Czech S&B ammo. Other than that, so long as your barrel twist will support the bullet weight, it will make big holes. But if it's ebola you're worried about, I would think about medical prophylactics, disinfectants, and food storage first before ammo. I work in med field so squirting stuff like that away isn't an issue especially when the doc I work for is of like mind. And as far as food goes got the base covered real well that's why the need for the long range ins.policy |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 9:05:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The best practice (for me) was to match ammo with the rifle, and not depend on any particular ammo for a given "situation". It took a couple hundred bucks and about a month, but I now know which rifle shoots best with what ammo. Good idea thanks I'll try that a while back I marked off distances with my range finder and paint so I just may try that in nov. Unless I get the blessing from the better half to drop some cash. She works in the lab at one our biggest hospitals so it scares the bejesus out of her too. This brought her to the dark side! Lol! |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 10:05:22 AM EDT
[#12]
Obviously I don't know what will work best with your rifles, but I've gotten mine down to 4 bullet types.
155gr Amax for HD 175gr SMK for long range work 180gr bonded core-lokt, have a few of these laying around for hunting 147gr FMJ, cheapest I can find for blasting away at the range |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 4:25:47 PM EDT
[#13]
The m1a is probably going to work best with 146 grain stuff. This might be the one where running heavier weight bullets needs some mods to the rifle so the operating rod lives a normal lifespan.
Bolt action will shoot anything but probably works best with whatever it was made to stabalize with the rifle twist. I have run the south african surplus through my 308s and just mostly stick to 150 grain stuff because it is a consistant weight for me to try to be around. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 4:27:45 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What does the ebola scare have to do with what particular 308 round you load into your rifle.  |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 8:59:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The m1a is probably going to work best with 146 grain stuff. This might be the one where running heavier weight bullets needs some mods to the rifle so the operating rod lives a normal lifespan. Bolt action will shoot anything but probably works best with whatever it was made to stabalize with the rifle twist. I have run the south african surplus through my 308s and just mostly stick to 150 grain stuff because it is a consistant weight for me to try to be around. This Your rifles probably have twist rates to stabilize 147gr to 150gr projectiles. Shooting them with different types of ammo will show you what the rifle shoots best. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 9:24:55 PM EDT
[#16]
If I remember correctly Fackler determined the German bi-metal 147gr FMJ had the most effective terminal performance of any 7.62X51mm military cartridge. If you're looking at stocking up on a bunch of milsurp stuff try to find it.
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Posted: 10/2/2014 9:26:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wich round would NOT do the job? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So I have been thinking with all the bugs coming from Africa and all the the lone wolf bullshit be touted on the news which would be a good 308 round to hold out to a distance? Now keep in mind I have a M1a and a Remmy bolt gun. Thanks Elvis Wich round would NOT do the job? Seriously, we're talking 308 here. If there's no serious barriers or body armor involved almost any decent ammo will do fine on almost anything in the 48. Some stuff in Alaska and parts of Canada might be a bit tough for it but we're not really discussing brown bear or caribu hunting. Go with what is best out of your rifle and you can shoot enough of to be comfortable with at various distances. Keep in mind, the two rifles may not like the same ammo at all. Remington bolt guns in 308 are known for having quite a bit of extra space before the rifling. They tend to like longer rounds for the same bullet, while the semi auto needs them to both fit in the magazine (which is probably shorter than the bolt gun's by a good bit) and also not jam into the rifling so hard it doesn't close the bolt reliably. Don't get me wrong, they may be perfectly happy with the same ammo, or at least happy enough that the rifles aren't the limiting factor. If you aren't concerned with MOA at 600 yards or more, most quality ammo is going to be fine out of either rifle. It's already been said, but the 168 and 175 Sierra Match King bullets, whether in handloads or factory ammo, are often considered the gold standard. If you want something more suitable for physically tougher targets there are Game King bullets almost as accurate and a dozen or so additional bullets by other companies like Barnes, Nosler, Hornady.... Work the problem backwards from the target. What is the target, what is the expected conditions, what is the maximum range.... Then pick a load that fits the most demanding application without being unsuitable for the others. This is why the 175 SMK isn't the be all end all of 308 bullets. There are plenty of bullets better at it in specific areas so as you narrow your criteria down there may be superior options. As a starting point though, really hard to beat them. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 6:21:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I remember correctly Fackler determined the German bi-metal 147gr FMJ had the most effective terminal performance of any 7.62X51mm military cartridge. If you're looking at stocking up on a bunch of milsurp stuff try to find it. Fackler as in Dr. Martin Fackler?? Never heard that report, but I do have 2-K of that bi-metal from AmmoMan a few years back. Fine for the Socom, but the Savage 10 throws it ALL over the place. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 9:15:21 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fackler as in Dr. Martin Fackler?? Never heard that report, but I do have 2-K of that bi-metal from AmmoMan a few years back. Fine for the Socom, but the Savage 10 throws it ALL over the place. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If I remember correctly Fackler determined the German bi-metal 147gr FMJ had the most effective terminal performance of any 7.62X51mm military cartridge. If you're looking at stocking up on a bunch of milsurp stuff try to find it. Fackler as in Dr. Martin Fackler?? Never heard that report, but I do have 2-K of that bi-metal from AmmoMan a few years back. Fine for the Socom, but the Savage 10 throws it ALL over the place. Yes, here's a relevant excerpt and a link: The construction of the West German 7.62 mm NATO bullet differs from the US 7.62 mm NATO round in that, the jacket material is copper plated steel, whereas the US version is copper (or the so called gilding metal alloy, which is predominantly copper). The West German steel jacket is about 0.6mm thick near the cannelure and the US copper jacket is about 0.8mm thick at the same point. This design difference is responsible for a vast difference in performance in tissue. The German bullet, after travelling point-forward for only about 8 cm, yaws and breaks at the cannelure. The flattened point section retains only about 66 % of the bullet's weight, the remaining 45 % mass becomes fragments (Fig. 8). The wound profile can be described as an enlarged M16 profile (Fig. 3), with dimensions of the tissue disruption increased by 60 % (temporary stress cavity about 22 cm diameter; permanent crush cavity about 11 cm diameter, penetration depth of the bullet point about 58 cm). http://www.uthr.org/SpecialReports/Military_rifle_bullet_wound_patterns.htm ETA: Fackler doesn't appear to be as good at math as I thought he might be. Or there's a typo in there. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 9:36:54 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What does the ebola scare have to do with what particular 308 round you load into your rifle. welcome to ARFCOM SF. 
ar-jedi |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 4:01:23 PM EDT
[#21]
All great info, thanks guys!
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Posted: 10/3/2014 5:04:39 PM EDT
[#22]
155 grain Amax
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Posted: 10/3/2014 6:37:07 PM EDT
[#23]
Under what circumstances do you imagine shooting people at .308 distances?
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Posted: 10/3/2014 6:42:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Under what circumstances do you imagine shooting people at .308 distances? That's easy... Fantasy Circumstances. 
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Posted: 10/3/2014 8:54:37 PM EDT
[#25]
mil ball.
Why? -soft target...it's 308, it's gonna work regardless -hard target..fmj stands the best chance -barricade...fmj stands the best chance -trajectory? good More importantly, you can buy enough to economically get dope for ranges, temperature, etc without spending $1+ a shot or having a dozen different types of premium ammo (because the store doesn't stock enough of one type). |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 10:31:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Obviously I don't know what will work best with your rifles, but I've gotten mine down to 4 bullet types. 155gr Amax for HD 175gr SMK for long range work 180gr bonded core-lokt, have a few of these laying around for hunting 147gr FMJ, cheapest I can find for blasting away at the range you use .308 for HD?? awesome! 
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Posted: 10/3/2014 11:27:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's easy... Fantasy Circumstances.
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2w_ywbplpWqDaJPqHz2wN2BqlrF_9F11mhvisXN86QxsfZCdXUQ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Under what circumstances do you imagine shooting people at .308 distances? That's easy... Fantasy Circumstances.
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2w_ywbplpWqDaJPqHz2wN2BqlrF_9F11mhvisXN86QxsfZCdXUQ this, what a joke... |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 9:25:48 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Under what circumstances do you imagine shooting people at .308 distances? I hope not to shoot anyone but to let them know to move along. And not some stupid zombie clown bullshit people been posting. I live in the sticks and I plan to stay that way! So I figure it to be a legit question. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 11:08:29 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fackler as in Dr. Martin Fackler?? Never heard that report, but I do have 2-K of that bi-metal from AmmoMan a few years back. Fine for the Socom, but the Savage 10 throws it ALL over the place. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If I remember correctly Fackler determined the German bi-metal 147gr FMJ had the most effective terminal performance of any 7.62X51mm military cartridge. If you're looking at stocking up on a bunch of milsurp stuff try to find it. Fackler as in Dr. Martin Fackler?? Never heard that report, but I do have 2-K of that bi-metal from AmmoMan a few years back. Fine for the Socom, but the Savage 10 throws it ALL over the place. Yes. Dr. Martin Fackler. IIRC, the West German 7.62 milsurp had a thinner jacket than most other milsurp FMJ and fragmented very much like M193 only with greater tissue damage due to its larger caliber. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 11:15:54 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Dr. Martin Fackler. IIRC, the West German 7.62 milsurp had a thinner jacket than most other milsurp FMJ and fragmented very much like M193 only with greater tissue damage due to its larger caliber. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If I remember correctly Fackler determined the German bi-metal 147gr FMJ had the most effective terminal performance of any 7.62X51mm military cartridge. If you're looking at stocking up on a bunch of milsurp stuff try to find it. Fackler as in Dr. Martin Fackler?? Never heard that report, but I do have 2-K of that bi-metal from AmmoMan a few years back. Fine for the Socom, but the Savage 10 throws it ALL over the place. Yes. Dr. Martin Fackler. IIRC, the West German 7.62 milsurp had a thinner jacket than most other milsurp FMJ and fragmented very much like M193 only with greater tissue damage due to its larger caliber. That's exactly what he observed. I added a link and an excerpt in another post above/previous page and he gives some dimensions (0.8mm vs 0.6mm) and other info. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 12:08:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you use .308 for HD?? awesome!
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Obviously I don't know what will work best with your rifles, but I've gotten mine down to 4 bullet types. 155gr Amax for HD 175gr SMK for long range work 180gr bonded core-lokt, have a few of these laying around for hunting 147gr FMJ, cheapest I can find for blasting away at the range you use .308 for HD?? awesome!
Yep, kept a L1a1 by the nightstand for nearly a year after running out of good 5.56 ammo. Now it's back to 77gr SMKs. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 5:26:22 PM EDT
[#32]
How hard is it to get the German milsurp? Or at least find it?
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Posted: 10/4/2014 5:40:39 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How hard is it to get the German milsurp? Or at least find it? http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/308-win-762x51mm-nato-147gr-fmjbt-german-ammo-m80.html |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 6:04:01 PM EDT
[#34]
I have been accumulating 7.62 Milsurp for years. Thats what I feed M1A rifles.
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Posted: 10/4/2014 6:09:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Easy enough by the looks of it. http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/308-win-762x51mm-nato-147gr-fmjbt-german-ammo-m80.html Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How hard is it to get the German milsurp? Or at least find it? http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/308-win-762x51mm-nato-147gr-fmjbt-german-ammo-m80.html Out of stock |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 6:27:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hope not to shoot anyone but to let them know to move along. And not some stupid zombie clown bullshit people been posting. I live in the sticks and I plan to stay that way! So I figure it to be a legit question. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Under what circumstances do you imagine shooting people at .308 distances? I hope not to shoot anyone but to let them know to move along. And not some stupid zombie clown bullshit people been posting. I live in the sticks and I plan to stay that way! So I figure it to be a legit question. Firing warning shots to get people to move along is a legitimately terrible idea. Unless you're planning on taking 500 yard shots, buy yourself some Winchester White Box 7.62 and call it a day. American Eagle has a good .308/7.62 round for an M1A also. Honestly though, I don't think you're going to get much unwanted traffic out of an Ebola outbreak. Assuming it was some worst case scenario, I think for Ebola, must people would just hunker down. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 6:30:59 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Out of stock Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: How hard is it to get the German milsurp? Or at least find it? http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/308-win-762x51mm-nato-147gr-fmjbt-german-ammo-m80.html Out of stock Man, it figures. I like the places that indicate it's out of stock when it's out of stock so you don't bother adding it to your cart (or sending links to people). Sorry....keep looking.  |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 6:32:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Rounds that go bang every time you pull the trigger.
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Posted: 10/4/2014 7:46:51 PM EDT
[#39]
I have no idea what will work best in your rigs, but I keep about 2k of the following( Mixed)
Mk319 130gr SOST mk316 175gr SMK BTHP 168gr AMAX |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 11:24:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope not to shoot anyone but to let them know to move along. And not some stupid zombie clown bullshit people been posting. I live in the sticks and I plan to stay that way! So I figure it to be a legit question. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Under what circumstances do you imagine shooting people at .308 distances? I hope not to shoot anyone but to let them know to move along. And not some stupid zombie clown bullshit people been posting. I live in the sticks and I plan to stay that way! So I figure it to be a legit question. Have you considered that popping off warning shots at random passerby would attract more of the attention you want to avoid? If one of my neighbors out in the sticks went off the deep end like that during a time of "community crisis" for lack of a better phrase, I might be inclined to put a stop to it. What's your plan for detecting these random passerby at 600+ yards? Cameras, motion sensors? You have NV and/or a thermal optic in case these ne'er-do-wells come at night? I think you need good neighbors, a couple dogs, and maybe a "keep out" sign, not a sniper rifle with expensive ammo. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 11:30:00 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you considered that popping off warning shots at random passerby would attract more of the attention you want to avoid? If one of my neighbors out in the sticks went off the deep end like that during a time of "community crisis" for lack of a better phrase, I might be inclined to put a stop to it. What's your plan for detecting these random passerby at 600+ yards? Cameras, motion sensors? You have NV and/or a thermal optic in case these ne'er-do-wells come at night? I think you need good neighbors, a couple dogs, and maybe a "keep out" sign, not a sniper rifle with expensive ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Under what circumstances do you imagine shooting people at .308 distances? I hope not to shoot anyone but to let them know to move along. And not some stupid zombie clown bullshit people been posting. I live in the sticks and I plan to stay that way! So I figure it to be a legit question. Have you considered that popping off warning shots at random passerby would attract more of the attention you want to avoid? If one of my neighbors out in the sticks went off the deep end like that during a time of "community crisis" for lack of a better phrase, I might be inclined to put a stop to it. What's your plan for detecting these random passerby at 600+ yards? Cameras, motion sensors? You have NV and/or a thermal optic in case these ne'er-do-wells come at night? I think you need good neighbors, a couple dogs, and maybe a "keep out" sign, not a sniper rifle with expensive ammo. I'm just trying to figure out why anything thinks bugging out over Ebola is even a remotely good idea. Last winter was brutal, and the experts are saying this winter is going to be more of the same. There's not going to be an SHTF over Ebola. By Valentine's Day, Ebola is probably going to be a distant memory for most of us. If someone is seriously concerned, they need to forget the ammo and go buy face masks and rubber gloves, or something. |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 3:03:02 PM EDT
[#42]
Anyone score some of the $8 per box ZQ1 at walmart this weekend? My store still has the 3 box limit so I was only able to grab 6 boxes.
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Posted: 10/7/2014 3:39:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope not to shoot anyone but to let them know to move along. And not some stupid zombie clown bullshit people been posting. I live in the sticks and I plan to stay that way! So I figure it to be a legit question. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Under what circumstances do you imagine shooting people at .308 distances? I hope not to shoot anyone but to let them know to move along. And not some stupid zombie clown bullshit people been posting. I live in the sticks and I plan to stay that way! So I figure it to be a legit question. warning shots at 600 yards. excellent idea. why didn't think of that? ar-jedi |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 6:10:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: warning shots at 600 yards. excellent idea. why didn't think of that? ar-jedi Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Under what circumstances do you imagine shooting people at .308 distances? I hope not to shoot anyone but to let them know to move along. And not some stupid zombie clown bullshit people been posting. I live in the sticks and I plan to stay that way! So I figure it to be a legit question. warning shots at 600 yards. excellent idea. why didn't think of that? ar-jedi WARNING! There's a dangerous, violent, crazy person here who is shooting in a situation that would be almost impossible to consider as self-defense! |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 6:29:37 PM EDT
[#45]
I can see the charges now:
Feloniously and Maliciously Shooting at uh, -People.... Ought to be good for 5 years with 3 off for good behavior...
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Posted: 10/7/2014 11:30:40 PM EDT
[#46]
No such thing as warning shot! That's signs are for. Can't read them not my problem. Don't habla not my problem. Head turning into goo at long distance my problem! Come on to my land at long distance and I think your up to no good my problem. But I'm not talking dropping people just cause. That would silly!
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Posted: 10/8/2014 8:44:02 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No such thing as warning shot! That's signs are for. Can't read them not my problem. Don't habla not my problem. Head turning into goo at long distance my problem! Come on to my land at long distance and I think your up to no good my problem. But I'm not talking dropping people just cause. That would silly! Just stop. |
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Posted: 10/8/2014 12:36:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No such thing as warning shot! That's signs are for. Can't read them not my problem. Don't habla not my problem. Head turning into goo at long distance my problem! Come on to my land at long distance and I think your up to no good my problem. But I'm not talking dropping people just cause. That would silly! you should not be left un-supervised |
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Posted: 10/8/2014 12:47:52 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just stop. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No such thing as warning shot! That's signs are for. Can't read them not my problem. Don't habla not my problem. Head turning into goo at long distance my problem! Come on to my land at long distance and I think your up to no good my problem. But I'm not talking dropping people just cause. That would silly! Just stop. Yes -put your footie down... 
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Posted: 10/8/2014 5:41:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Turned into a GD thread
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