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Posted: 9/6/2014 6:28:05 PM EDT
will post a detailed review when it arrives next week. in the meantime here is what we got. the video is a of the old model of the same machine.
first run... 
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Posted: 9/6/2014 6:37:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Wow! I didn't watch the video but that couldn't have been cheap!
Anxious to see a report on it. -Emt1581 |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 6:43:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Decidedly not cheap.
A buddy and his wife had a business drying wedding bouquets and used them. My face when he told me what the machines cost. 
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Posted: 9/6/2014 6:45:52 PM EDT
[#3]
it was a little under 4k. i figure between what i will use it for and hopefully using it to help people in our group it will pay for itself in a year or so.
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Posted: 9/6/2014 6:48:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
it was a little under 4k. i figure between what i will use it for and hopefully using it to help people in our group it will pay for itself in a year or so. Yikes! But money well spent if it allows you to preserve enough food for you and your group to live on for a while. That's less than a pallet of current FD food. EDIT:I watched the video. Impressive!! Replacing all the windows in my house, my roof, and getting a Mustang GT is on my list right now. But in future years, if these come down in price a bit, I'd like to have one or at least have access to one. Any clue how to get gravies and sauces into a powder? Is there anything that you can't FD effectively? Thanks -Emt1581 |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 6:56:32 PM EDT
[#5]
nope has it's own freezer unit built in. power should cost around 2-4.00 a month to run it based on 2-3 cycles a week. will do up to 10lbs of food at a time and they say it takes about 24 hours for a complete cycle.
got it at the prep show today, no tax, free shipping, and they threw in a commercial bag sealer and 100 bags and o2 absorbers. one of my big concerns was service if something breaks. it's pretty much built with off the shelf parts any refrigeration service company should have on the truck. i have to give them credit, this thing is built like a tank from commercial grade parts. it is am amazingly simple device once you get past the sticker shock. |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 6:58:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
nope has it's own freezer unit built in. power should cost around 2-4.00 a month to run it based on 2-3 cycles a week. will do up to 10lbs of food at a time and they say it takes about 24 hours for a complete cycle. got it at the prep show today, no tax, free shipping, and they threw in a commercial bag sealer and 100 bags and o2 absorbers. one of my big concerns was service if something breaks. it's pretty much built with off the shelf parts any refrigeration service company should have on the truck. i have to give them credit, this thing is built like a tank from commercial grade parts. it is am amazingly simple device once you get past the sticker shock. Wait....prep show?!?
EDIT: Yeah I was going to ask about servicing. Seems like it'd have specialized parts that you can't rig or improvise if the SHTF. -Emt1581 |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 7:01:37 PM EDT
[#7]
we have 2-3 year around here. usually small shows geared toward homesteading and such.
no special parts on this machine at all. http://www.thesouthernpreppers.com/ |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 9:15:39 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
will post a detailed review when it arrives next week. in the meantime here is what we got. the video is a of the old model of the same machine.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JDX0H3wt4E |
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Posted: 9/7/2014 8:03:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Be careful on the salt content in what you freeze dry. If it is to high the freezing point is depressed and it can be difficult to freeze. It may also not stay cold enough during the sublimation drying phase and remelt giving a mess. Same goes for anything more volatile than water (alcohol) in the food, it screws up the highvac system.
I have about 20 years experience with freeze drying in a lab setting. |
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Posted: 9/7/2014 8:44:39 AM EDT
[#10]
thanks for the info.
i hadn't planned to really do anything seasoned but i will certainly keep that in mind. i have also found people saying things with high oil contents don't work well either. most of what i am planning to do is just basic fruits and vegetables and meats. i got to sit down for about an hour and a half and talk with the owner of the company and the guy that did a lot of the design on the machine. they really seem like a good bunch of folks whos number one goal was always helping the community above anything else. i find that rare with most companies. i am hoping to get a possible side business going for my local group and others in the community doing small batches for a cheap fee <maybe 1-2.00 per pound of food> to help reduce costs to other folks and help offset the cost a bit. no interest in running it full time but if i could do 3-4 batches a month for others that would pay my remaining bill on the machine over the next year. i think that is pretty do able from the guys locally i have talked to. |
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Posted: 9/7/2014 8:55:55 AM EDT
[#11]
One other consideration.
Freeze drying creates a very large surface area. This dramatically accelerates oxidation/aging of the food and adsorption of moisture. If you plan on storing your freeze dried food long term it must be under an inert gas, N2 or CO2. |
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Posted: 9/7/2014 8:58:25 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: will post a detailed review when it arrives next week. in the meantime here is what we got. the video is a of the old model of the same machine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JDX0H3wt4E"Most people don't know that water can only exit as a gas or a solid in a vacuum."  Ahh, that is because that total BS. Water will sublimate in a vacuum, and that is what a freeze dryer does. It reduce the pressure to the point that the water will sublimate. Water also sublimates a normal atmospheric pressure when the temperature is low enough (look at really old ice cubes in your freezer, they get smaller and smaller with age), but the process is very slow. Great purchase, wish I had the space for one. Heck I could use one at work. I bet you will love it! |
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Posted: 9/7/2014 9:14:43 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From the video: "Most people don't know that water can only exit as a gas or a solid in a vacuum."
Ahh, that is because that total BS. Water will sublimate in a vacuum, and that is what a freeze dryer does. It reduce the pressure to the point that the water will sublimate. Water also sublimates a normal atmospheric pressure when the temperature is low enough (look at really old ice cubes in your freezer, they get smaller and smaller with age), but the process is very slow. Great purchase, wish I had the space for one. Heck I could use one at work. I bet you will love it! Actually below 611.73 Pa absolute pressure water can only exist as a solid or vapor. 
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Posted: 9/7/2014 9:56:46 AM EDT
[#14]
there are some things that i questioned in the marketing material as well. but sitting down and discussing things with them it became apparent they geared the "explanations" to the lowest common denominator for examples and explanations to get the points across. i will freely admit i knew very little to nothing about the process at the start. after some time with them they know their stuff and i personally believe they built a good appliance. <at this price i hope i am right
 >
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Posted: 9/7/2014 10:48:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From the video: "Most people don't know that water can only exit as a gas or a solid in a vacuum."
Ahh, that is because that total BS. Water will sublimate in a vacuum, and that is what a freeze dryer does. It reduce the pressure to the point that the water will sublimate. Water also sublimates a normal atmospheric pressure when the temperature is low enough (look at really old ice cubes in your freezer, they get smaller and smaller with age), but the process is very slow. Great purchase, wish I had the space for one. Heck I could use one at work. I bet you will love it! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
will post a detailed review when it arrives next week. in the meantime here is what we got. the video is a of the old model of the same machine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JDX0H3wt4E"Most people don't know that water can only exit as a gas or a solid in a vacuum."
Ahh, that is because that total BS. Water will sublimate in a vacuum, and that is what a freeze dryer does. It reduce the pressure to the point that the water will sublimate. Water also sublimates a normal atmospheric pressure when the temperature is low enough (look at really old ice cubes in your freezer, they get smaller and smaller with age), but the process is very slow. Great purchase, wish I had the space for one. Heck I could use one at work. I bet you will love it! The exec in the video was tying to keep the idea simple for those potential customers that really should be on the short buss licking the windows. One other reason that ice cubes disappear over time in a freezer is the "Frost Free" feature that allows the freezer to warm a bit and evaporate frost then refreeze the freezer. Congratulations Beer Slayer I hope you have a lot of fun with this |
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Posted: 9/7/2014 1:22:26 PM EDT
[#16]
i figure if i can do 2-3 runs a month for others at a cost to them of 1-2.00 per pound of food that should almost pay off the little i financed over the next year and get my local peeps access to FD foods on the cheap.
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Posted: 9/8/2014 3:38:06 PM EDT
[#17]
I have been eyeballing that machine for awhile now . Great pick up .
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Posted: 9/8/2014 3:52:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Freeze dried beer? 
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Posted: 9/8/2014 4:04:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Freeze dried bear? Fixed! 
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Posted: 9/8/2014 4:04:51 PM EDT
[#20]
So while this video demonstrates the freeze drying of turkey and apple slices, will this machine to the same thing with prepared meals like beef stroganoff, turkey tetrazzini, spaghetti, etc? Or is that obviously more complicated meal need to be freeze dried with a higher end machine?
Also, when companies like Mountain House bag stuff, are they doing it in an oxygen free enviornment, or just tossing FD'd trays of food into their pouches and adding the oxygen absorber and calling it a day and slapping that 20 year life cycle to the bag? In other words, is this machine adequate to do what the big guys do? |
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Posted: 9/8/2014 4:15:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So while this video demonstrates the freeze drying of turkey and apple slices, will this machine to the same thing with prepared meals like beef stroganoff, turkey tetrazzini, spaghetti, etc? Or is that obviously more complicated meal need to be freeze dried with a higher end machine? Also, when companies like Mountain House bag stuff, are they doing it in an oxygen free enviornment, or just tossing FD'd trays of food into their pouches and adding the oxygen absorber and calling it a day and slapping that 20 year life cycle to the bag? In other words, is this machine adequate to do what the big guys do? As I mentioned above, freeze drying creates a very porous high surface area product. By it's nature it is very prone to oxidation and must be rigorously preserved in an oxygen free environment if you plan on long term storage. I have me doubts about oxygen absorbers in mylar bags being sufficient. If I was going to preserve freeze dried food I would place it in canning jars, add dry ice and loosely put on the lid to allow escape of the CO2. Once it's done venting tighten up the jars and store in the dark. |
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Posted: 9/8/2014 5:02:00 PM EDT
[#22]
they have done full meals in theirs. i will try it.
i have no doubt this should easily last 5-10 years if not a lot longer with an O2 absorber. i have had food last that long with just regular mylar and o2 stored in a reasonable location. as i usually rotate out stocks i don't forsee needing 25+years but it's nice if that works out. |
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Posted: 9/8/2014 5:07:21 PM EDT
[#23]
just got done with the finance guy. monthly charges after the down payment are 116.00 per month for 12 months, no interest. they are amazingly easy to deal with. when i mentioned i'd rather be billed than autopay with CC he was pretty much, just tell me what you want and the terms and we are happy. so long as it's paid of in 12 months they don't care. I have never dealt with an easier company to work with. my machine ships this afternoon or first thing in the morning.
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Posted: 9/8/2014 5:58:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Very nice!
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Posted: 9/8/2014 8:56:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Holy shit, I need one!! |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 2:39:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Tagged
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Posted: 9/9/2014 8:59:29 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tagged .No doubt. This will be vicariously awesome. |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 9:21:49 AM EDT
[#28]
i actually had a guy ask me if i could do water. yes he was actually serious....
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Posted: 9/9/2014 9:28:31 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i actually had a guy ask me if i could do water. yes he was actually serious.... Lolol...did you say "yes, it turns it into...nothing"? So, in actuality, I am guessing you would be left with a bowl coated in a thin film of whatever minerals were in the water, same as if you boiled or evaporated the water away, right? Or would a small bowl of water take waaaaayyy too long to do in that, and 24 hours would not suffice? Or am I just as dumb...? Maybe I should have just said nothing...eeeshk |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 9:32:31 AM EDT
[#30]
i figure i will charge him 30.00 for a sealed empty bag with an 02 absorber. then tell him it's a full bag and he will need to reconstitute it with fresh water before use.
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Posted: 9/9/2014 3:25:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i figure i will charge him 30.00 for a sealed empty bag with an 02 absorber. then tell him it's a full bag and he will need to reconstitute it with fresh water before use. Winning!! |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 3:31:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i actually had a guy ask me if i could do water. yes he was actually serious.... Why is that a problem? |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 4:35:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, in actuality, I am guessing you would be left with a bowl coated in a thin film of whatever minerals were in the water, same as if you boiled or evaporated the water away, right? Freeze drying (lyophilization) of dilute solutions gives a very light/fluffy 'foam' like solid. In the case of tap water you would not find the mineral remains as it would most likely float away into the vacuum cold trap as it dehydrated. From personal experience it is a real PITA to try and transfer these very light foam like solids, a slight breeze and they take to the air and float away. |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 5:21:17 PM EDT
[#34]
rich i have a question for you.
one guy discussed trying to do butter. he said when the vacume process started the butter began to boil and exploded all over the inside of the machine due to the oil content. i don't have any desire to do butter although it might be cool for storage, but there are a lot of recipes out there i see with pretty high oil butter content. what causes that and is there a difference in doing a lump of butter vs cooked foods with similar oil contents? i am new to this and still trying to figure it out. |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 6:01:37 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
rich i have a question for you. one guy discussed trying to do butter. he said when the vacume process started the butter began to boil and exploded all over the inside of the machine due to the oil content. i don't have any desire to do butter although it might be cool for storage, but there are a lot of recipes out there i see with pretty high oil butter content. what causes that and is there a difference in doing a lump of butter vs cooked foods with similar oil contents? i am new to this and still trying to figure it out. OK a little bit on the theory of freeze drying. Initially you freeze the water in your sample (food in this case) by refrigeration. Once it is frozen you apply a high vacuum and turn off the refrigeration. The high vacuum causes sublimation/evaporation of the water because the vapor pressure of ice @ freezing temperatures (~32F) is higher than the pressure in the vessel. The evaporation causes the ice to cool and keeps it below freezing - the vacuum removes water and keeps your food frozen. Heat from the surroundings (or in some set ups temperature controlled heating elements in the freeze drier) continues to add heat to the the ice and eventually you reach an equilibrium in temperature of the ice and the vapor pressure where the cooling from sublimation matches the heat input into the ice. This equilibrium remains until all of the water has sublimated from the food. If the ice is surrounded by an impermeable barrier. i.e. fat/oil it will not sublimate under vacuum. Without sublimation it does not remain cold and starts to warm and melt. At some point the water, now liquid, becomes warm enough that it flash vaporizes under the vacuum conditions with splattering the result. Very similar to superheated water 'bumping' causing a splash. Since butter is mostly fat with little water is suffers from this phenomenon. The same can happen with high fat meats and this is why the freeze dried meats we buy are all lean cuts. This can also happen if any barrier to evaporation is present, I'll bet a whole frozen apple would 'explode' if you tried to freeze dry it. The intact skin would prevent evaporation and as the apple warmed and melted at some point the difference in vapor pressure would burst the apple skin. How much fat/oil is too much? I can't help you there, trial and error will be the only way to find out. Perhaps the manufacturer can give some advice? |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 6:16:25 PM EDT
[#36]
well hell, when the zombies strike, you'll be one of the few people with edible food.
pretty awesome. 
Quoted:
i actually had a guy ask me if i could do water. yes he was actually serious.... well... not water but you could do it to coffee. after all that's how they make the crystals for instant. tho i am curious how it would taste for beer.... |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 6:23:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK a little bit on the theory of freeze drying. Initially you freeze the water in your sample (food in this case) by refrigeration. Once it is frozen you apply a high vacuum and turn off the refrigeration. The high vacuum causes sublimation/evaporation of the water because the vapor pressure of ice @ freezing temperatures (~32F) is higher than the pressure in the vessel. The evaporation causes the ice to cool and keeps it below freezing - the vacuum removes water and keeps your food frozen. Heat from the surroundings (or in some set ups temperature controlled heating elements in the freeze drier) continues to add heat to the the ice and eventually you reach an equilibrium in temperature of the ice and the vapor pressure where the cooling from sublimation matches the heat input into the ice. This equilibrium remains until all of the water has sublimated from the food. If the ice is surrounded by an impermeable barrier. i.e. fat/oil it will not sublimate under vacuum. Without sublimation it does not remain cold and starts to warm and melt. At some point the water, now liquid, becomes warm enough that it flash vaporizes under the vacuum conditions with splattering the result. Very similar to superheated water 'bumping' causing a splash. Since butter is mostly fat with little water is suffers from this phenomenon. The same can happen with high fat meats and this is why the freeze dried meats we buy are all lean cuts. This can also happen if any barrier to evaporation is present, I'll bet a whole frozen apple would 'explode' if you tried to freeze dry it. The intact skin would prevent evaporation and as the apple warmed and melted at some point the difference in vapor pressure would burst the apple skin. How much fat/oil is too much? I can't help you there, trial and error will be the only way to find out. Perhaps the manufacturer can give some advice? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
rich i have a question for you. one guy discussed trying to do butter. he said when the vacume process started the butter began to boil and exploded all over the inside of the machine due to the oil content. i don't have any desire to do butter although it might be cool for storage, but there are a lot of recipes out there i see with pretty high oil butter content. what causes that and is there a difference in doing a lump of butter vs cooked foods with similar oil contents? i am new to this and still trying to figure it out. OK a little bit on the theory of freeze drying. Initially you freeze the water in your sample (food in this case) by refrigeration. Once it is frozen you apply a high vacuum and turn off the refrigeration. The high vacuum causes sublimation/evaporation of the water because the vapor pressure of ice @ freezing temperatures (~32F) is higher than the pressure in the vessel. The evaporation causes the ice to cool and keeps it below freezing - the vacuum removes water and keeps your food frozen. Heat from the surroundings (or in some set ups temperature controlled heating elements in the freeze drier) continues to add heat to the the ice and eventually you reach an equilibrium in temperature of the ice and the vapor pressure where the cooling from sublimation matches the heat input into the ice. This equilibrium remains until all of the water has sublimated from the food. If the ice is surrounded by an impermeable barrier. i.e. fat/oil it will not sublimate under vacuum. Without sublimation it does not remain cold and starts to warm and melt. At some point the water, now liquid, becomes warm enough that it flash vaporizes under the vacuum conditions with splattering the result. Very similar to superheated water 'bumping' causing a splash. Since butter is mostly fat with little water is suffers from this phenomenon. The same can happen with high fat meats and this is why the freeze dried meats we buy are all lean cuts. This can also happen if any barrier to evaporation is present, I'll bet a whole frozen apple would 'explode' if you tried to freeze dry it. The intact skin would prevent evaporation and as the apple warmed and melted at some point the difference in vapor pressure would burst the apple skin. How much fat/oil is too much? I can't help you there, trial and error will be the only way to find out. Perhaps the manufacturer can give some advice? thanks for the explanation. that makes sense. |
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Posted: 9/9/2014 9:52:49 PM EDT
[#38]
That takes home food preservation to another level.
Compared to food being dehydrated; is freeze drying: better, just different, or does it have drawbacks? Or does it let you extend the shelf life? |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 2:17:26 AM EDT
[#39]
At the risk of asking a dumb question; couldn't you just take the freez dried food and vacuumed seal it in a food saver or vacuumed sealed canning jar? |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 8:11:40 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At the risk of asking a dumb question; couldn't you just take the freez dried food and vacuumed seal it in a food saver or vacuumed sealed canning jar? you can split number 10 cans this way |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 2:54:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At the risk of asking a dumb question; couldn't you just take the freez dried food and vacuumed seal it in a food saver or vacuumed sealed canning jar? yes but if your doing any kind of volume you will spend a fortune doing it. ie.... cost of operating the machine is around 3-4.00 per month. last year i bought a can of pork chops. 8-10 per can for about 50.00 + shipping each. 10 chops would cost me about 8-10.00 at the store. so to put up 30 FD pork chops.... 34.00 vs 150.00. eggs are going for around 15.00 for a 13.5oz can. i can get eggs cheap or free and i could in theory do 10lbs of them at a time for 4.00. |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 2:56:57 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That takes home food preservation to another level. Compared to food being dehydrated; is freeze drying: better, just different, or does it have drawbacks? Or does it let you extend the shelf life? FD lasts 15-25years + with proper storage. dehydated usually 2-3. dehydration also destroys the texture of the food and can reduce the nutrients vs FD <so i have read>. on rehydration the food goes back to about 90% original consistency in my experience. you can also do prepared meals which you can't do with dehydration. |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 6:26:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
it was a little under 4k. i figure between what i will use it for and hopefully using it to help people in our group it will pay for itself in a year or so. At $2500, I'm standing here with cash in hand. For $4k, I have to take a long hard look at all of the investment I already have in my preps. I can see the value in this unit, but I would have to think that most folks who would see the 'need' for a unit like this also already have substantial investment in preps already put away and most of that will already be freeze dried. I can totally see where groups like the Mormons would get a lot of value/use from one of these. |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 3:56:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Nice TBS, that is the unit I've been looking at. Looking forward to your thoughts/impressions after a few runs.
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Posted: 9/15/2014 6:11:27 PM EDT
[#45]
machine should be here next monday
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Posted: 9/15/2014 8:02:41 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
machine should be here next monday Stop Teasing It turns folks on 
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Posted: 9/15/2014 9:05:19 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so to put up 30 FD pork chops.... 34.00 vs 150.00. you would pay for the machine with just that. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 2:51:56 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I was going to preserve freeze dried food I would place it in canning jars, add dry ice and loosely put on the lid to allow escape of the CO2. Once it's done venting tighten up the jars and store in the dark. Caveat: Make sure there is no frost on the chunk of dry ice. Something to watch for in more humid climes. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 8:27:54 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Caveat: Make sure there is no frost on the chunk of dry ice. Something to watch for in more humid climes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If I was going to preserve freeze dried food I would place it in canning jars, add dry ice and loosely put on the lid to allow escape of the CO2. Once it's done venting tighten up the jars and store in the dark. Caveat: Make sure there is no frost on the chunk of dry ice. Something to watch for in more humid climes. i think mylar bags and o2 absorbers will work fine for me. I plan to live off this as well as store it so ultra super long term won't be a major issue. 3-5 years is likely long term for me as i rotate stock. the real benefit for me is more food storage of things that would require refrigeration and i can store a ton more bags than cans due to less wasted space. portion control is also easier to manage. once opened it will last lot longer than canned food. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 9:08:47 AM EDT
[#50]
[
 ]So I'm thinking of road trippin to TBS's place with a couple coolers of food that needs processed and a bottle of bourbon.
With a bit of luck I could have a bunch of stuff freeze dried before TBS finished the bottle[/ ]
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