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Posted: 9/24/2013 8:33:37 PM EDT
Started a little diesel Kubota 1 cyl 4 or 5 HP engine last night.  Just about the littlest of the smallest long life engines, a E300A model.

Horizontal cyl. Looks like a compact technically advanced version of the small Pettier or whatever diesels of the 1st half of last century.

It ran maybe 20 seconds on the fuel it was able to get into it's injection pump from the fuel filter and I cut it off, ran it up to less than 2000 RPM's for a few seconds a couple times, and mostly observed it. Tested the electric starter a few time, etc.

It had the stock air cleaner on it but the exhaust port is wide open.

What I found surprising was how quiet it is with the intake seemingly making more combustion/breathing noise than the exhaust.

I'm dumbfounded how little noise was coming from the exhaust.

Sure diesels are high compression, but is the burn less 'expozive' than small gas lawnmower engines?

I had an old Cushman scooter engine that I traded for something on my paper route and that thing ran low RPM but LOUD.

So I don't know what to make of this.

I had it hooked to a 150 amp 12 volt alternator with a serpentine belt, but haven't hooked the alternator to a battery bank yet, so there was no real load on the engine.


Oh, the diesel fuel had sat in the F-F and pump open to atmosphere for YEARS since it last run. It started first turn of the key [well, there's no key, just me touching the starter wire to the battery after touching the glow plug wire to it prior].

It's in nice shape and not used much.



Link Posted: 9/24/2013 9:03:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Started a little diesel Kubota 1 cyl 4 or 5 HP engine last night.  Just about the littlest of the smallest long life engines, a E300A model.

Horizontal cyl. Looks like a compact technically advanced version of the small Pettier or whatever diesels of the 1st half of last century.

It ran maybe 20 seconds on the fuel it was able to get into it's injection pump from the fuel filter and I cut it off, ran it up to less than 2000 RPM's for a few seconds a couple times, and mostly observed it. Tested the electric starter a few time, etc.

It had the stock air cleaner on it but the exhaust port is wide open.

What I found surprising was how quiet it is with the intake seemingly making more combustion/breathing noise than the exhaust.

I'm dumbfounded how little noise was coming from the exhaust.

Sure diesels are high compression, but is the burn less 'expozive' than small gas lawnmower engines?

I had an old Cushman scooter engine that I traded for something on my paper route and that thing ran low RPM but LOUD.

So I don't know what to make of this.

I had it hooked to a 150 amp 12 volt alternator with a serpentine belt, but haven't hooked the alternator to a battery bank yet, so there was no real load on the engine.


Oh, the diesel fuel had sat in the F-F and pump open to atmosphere for YEARS since it last run. It started first turn of the key [well, there's no key, just me touching the starter wire to the battery after touching the glow plug wire to it prior].

It's in nice shape and not used much.

View Quote


Please don't do this anymore.  Modern alternators needs a 12 vdc battery to stabilize and help regulate their voltage.  Tons of information out there about disconnecting batteries while an engine is running and the dangers it poses to the vehicle electronics and to the alternator itself.

Oh, and pics of the engine!!!

thanks,

Link Posted: 9/24/2013 9:12:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Please don't do this anymore.  Modern alternators needs a 12 vdc battery to stabilize and help regulate their voltage.  Tons of information out there about disconnecting batteries while an engine is running and the dangers it poses to the vehicle electronics and to the alternator itself.

Oh, and pics of the engine!!!

thanks,

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Started a little diesel Kubota 1 cyl 4 or 5 HP engine last night.  Just about the littlest of the smallest long life engines, a E300A model.

Horizontal cyl. Looks like a compact technically advanced version of the small Pettier or whatever diesels of the 1st half of last century.

It ran maybe 20 seconds on the fuel it was able to get into it's injection pump from the fuel filter and I cut it off, ran it up to less than 2000 RPM's for a few seconds a couple times, and mostly observed it. Tested the electric starter a few time, etc.

It had the stock air cleaner on it but the exhaust port is wide open.

What I found surprising was how quiet it is with the intake seemingly making more combustion/breathing noise than the exhaust.

I'm dumbfounded how little noise was coming from the exhaust.

Sure diesels are high compression, but is the burn less 'expozive' than small gas lawnmower engines?

I had an old Cushman scooter engine that I traded for something on my paper route and that thing ran low RPM but LOUD.

So I don't know what to make of this.

I had it hooked to a 150 amp 12 volt alternator with a serpentine belt, but haven't hooked the alternator to a battery bank yet, so there was no real load on the engine.


Oh, the diesel fuel had sat in the F-F and pump open to atmosphere for YEARS since it last run. It started first turn of the key [well, there's no key, just me touching the starter wire to the battery after touching the glow plug wire to it prior].

It's in nice shape and not used much.



Please don't do this anymore.  Modern alternators needs a 12 vdc battery to stabilize and help regulate their voltage.  Tons of information out there about disconnecting batteries while an engine is running and the dangers it poses to the vehicle electronics and to the alternator itself.

Oh, and pics of the engine!!!

thanks,





Good point on the alternator -don't know what I was thinking...  


Here's a vid of the engine set up similar to mine.

I'm using a Scepter MFC and need to run at least 3 returns and one feed line and I've got a 12 vdc electric fuel pump in the feed.

I found a couple of those fancy Scepter caps with the pass thru ports in a special plastic insert threaded for 1/4 npt fittings and will use that with a dip hose and hook the returns and feed to it.





 
Link Posted: 9/24/2013 9:13:56 PM EDT
[#3]
What can I use for a load for the alternator, just a 12 volt battery? I want to get this all together before I take it to the battery bank.

Just any battery, I think...

The alternator came from a truck junkyard and I got a couple. No need to blow the reg tho.




Link Posted: 9/24/2013 10:13:51 PM EDT
[#4]
If the alternators you have sourced are indeed from  modern, late model heavy trucks, ie LeeceNeville 110-555 or 2670JB or ANY of the heavy  duty Delco 22SI, 33SI or 34SI units, are all 'Load dump" protected, so  you can run them without load, and it will NOT hurt them, unlike  automotive grade toys.

.  If you have several to choose from, the  LeeceNeville (Prestolite) 110-555 is the easiest to service, and is THE best choice for a DC charging engine-alternator project.
Very low cut-in speed ( less than 1500 shaft RPM start-up )
Full output around 3000 to 3500 shaft rpm - 160 Amps
Damn near zero static battery draw, you can leave one connected to the battery bank  without issue.
Brushes, bearings are standard parts, easy to find, easy to replace.
You can up rate them to 200 amps, OR  build them for 24 volt service.
......PM for  repair parts list...
Link Posted: 9/24/2013 10:36:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If the alternators you have sourced are indeed from  modern, late model heavy trucks, ie LeeceNeville 110-555 or 2670JB or ANY of the heavy  duty Delco 22SI, 33SI or 34SI units, are all 'Load dump" protected, so  you can run them without load, and it will NOT hurt them, unlike  automotive grade toys.

.  If you have several to choose from, the  LeeceNeville (Prestolite) 110-555 is the easiest to service, and is THE best choice for a DC charging engine-alternator project.
Very low cut-in speed ( less than 1500 shaft RPM start-up )
Full output around 3000 to 3500 shaft rpm - 160 Amps
Damn near zero static battery draw, you can leave one connected to the battery bank  without issue.
Brushes, bearings are standard parts, easy to find, easy to replace.
You can up rate them to 200 amps, OR  build them for 24 volt service.
......PM for  repair parts list...
View Quote



Thanks.

Got 2 of the 22SI Delcos --and one Leece Neville, cheap, looking at the lamination count, it looks to be a 120 to 150 amp and a JB series. Problem is with it is, it is beyond reasonable repair. No ID on it I could find.

So I'm going to run the best 22SI first.

I see Leece Neville replacements on ebay, I wonder if they are any good.


I figured out how to mod the reg on the Delcos to remote sense, by cutting the strap on the blade connector.




Link Posted: 9/25/2013 7:35:35 AM EDT
[#6]
That looks similar to the Changfa 1115 I bought a few yrs ago.  Mines rated at 20hp and I have it coupled to an ST10 Gen Head for storm duty.  Great insurance as I've not needed it since I built it 7 yrs ago.  That little Kubota would be worth sourcing a 2500 Watt AC Head for.  Or maybe you plan/have a decent sized Inverter to go with the battery bank?  It's the perfect size for topping up the battery bank on cloudy days.
Link Posted: 9/25/2013 7:48:50 AM EDT
[#7]
I love lil diesel engines like that.........
I have a pile of Yanmar L48, L60, L70 and L100 series engines kicking around waiting for projects.
I just bought 3 L60s for $20 a piece with less than 300 hours on them. Came with 28v DC gen sets.

I like Yanmar engines as you can get them cheap as .gov surplus.......Uncle Sugar loves to throw
away tax payers money.......
Link Posted: 9/25/2013 7:58:49 AM EDT
[#8]
How well would these little diesels run on plain waste motor oil?
Link Posted: 9/25/2013 8:42:16 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That looks similar to the Changfa 1115 I bought a few yrs ago.  Mines rated at 20hp and I have it coupled to an ST10 Gen Head for storm duty.  Great insurance as I've not needed it since I built it 7 yrs ago.  That little Kubota would be worth sourcing a 2500 Watt AC Head for.  Or maybe you plan/have a decent sized Inverter to go with the battery bank?  It's the perfect size for topping up the battery bank on cloudy days.
View Quote





The Changfas have a good reputation...

The Kubota is  for topping batteries when the sun don't shine.

I agree, it sips fuel, if you look at the specs..

Specs

It burns less than .3 kg of diesel per KW per hour. One gallon of diesel weighs 7 pounds...

So one gallon weighs .45 kg x 7  = 3.15 kg.


3.15  / .3  = 10 run hours with a 1 KW load !!




1 kw is about 80 amps at 13 volts into the batteries. [It's important to note that running a genny to the ABSORB voltage isn't as efficient as bulk charging, and I'd wait and let the sun do the absorb and float charge to max efficiency and conserve fuel]

Then, of course, is the bugaboo of Coulomb inefficiency.

So figure about 10 hours of run time per gallon.

That's pretty amazing OK -if my calcs are correct.

I hope it's quiet, I don't want to listen to it...



Link Posted: 9/25/2013 8:48:08 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I love lil diesel engines like that.........
I have a pile of Yanmar L48, L60, L70 and L100 series engines kicking around waiting for projects.
I just bought 3 L60s for $20 a piece with less than 300 hours on them. Came with 28v DC gen sets.

I like Yanmar engines as you can get them cheap as .gov surplus.......Uncle Sugar loves to throw
away tax payers money.......
View Quote




Yep, getting really good at it now, to the tune of more than a Trillion a year...

And the REAL kicker is...

The Trillion $ was never earned or collected, it doesn't even exist.

Quite a trick I'd say...

Link Posted: 9/25/2013 8:48:47 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How well would these little diesels run on plain waste motor oil?
View Quote



Probably just fine and on veggie too...


Link Posted: 9/25/2013 1:31:19 PM EDT
[#12]
That is a really neat set-up.........thanks for sharing.
Link Posted: 9/25/2013 1:49:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That is a really neat set-up.........thanks for sharing.
View Quote



The one in the vid isn't mine, but it will be similar.

I'll use a 5 gallon MFC for fuel.

Link Posted: 9/25/2013 7:39:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It burns less than .3 kg of diesel per KW per hour. One gallon of diesel weighs 7 pounds...

So one gallon weighs .45 kg x 7  = 3.15 kg.


3.15  / .3  = 10 run hours with a 1 KW load !!
View Quote


That's a 1KW mechanical load - not a 1 KW electrical load.

By the time you factor in the inefficiency of an automotive alternator and associated wiring, your engine is probably producing 3 KW of mechanical power to get 1 KW of 12 volt power.
Link Posted: 9/25/2013 8:29:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That's a 1KW mechanical load - not a 1 KW electrical load.

By the time you factor in the inefficiency of an automotive alternator and associated wiring, your engine is probably producing 3 KW of mechanical power to get 1 KW of 12 volt power.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
It burns less than .3 kg of diesel per KW per hour. One gallon of diesel weighs 7 pounds...

So one gallon weighs .45 kg x 7  = 3.15 kg.


3.15  / .3  = 10 run hours with a 1 KW load !!


That's a 1KW mechanical load - not a 1 KW electrical load.

By the time you factor in the inefficiency of an automotive alternator and associated wiring, your engine is probably producing 3 KW of mechanical power to get 1 KW of 12 volt power.



Yep, understand. Also power transmission losses in the serpentine belt.

The 22SI alternator is about 65 or 70% efficient at the lower RPM's I'll run at [I think I read somewhere], Fullpower can correct me, and I did factor some inefficiencies in the calculations above.

So it might not be as bad as it seems.

I sure hope not 3 to 1...





Link Posted: 9/26/2013 9:51:45 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That looks similar to the Changfa 1115 I bought a few yrs ago.  Mines rated at 20hp and I have it coupled to an ST10 Gen Head for storm duty.  Great insurance as I've not needed it since I built it 7 yrs ago.  That little Kubota would be worth sourcing a 2500 Watt AC Head for.  Or maybe you plan/have a decent sized Inverter to go with the battery bank?  It's the perfect size for topping up the battery bank on cloudy days.
View Quote



Is this like your Changfa setup?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-hl2yfODME


Can't figure out why the vid won't embed...  what's the trick?


Link Posted: 9/26/2013 4:01:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Diesels lean out really well so I figure you will get more noise when it actually has a load and sucks in some decent amounts of fuel.




Link Posted: 9/27/2013 7:09:03 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Is this like your Changfa setup?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-hl2yfODME


View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
That looks similar to the Changfa 1115 I bought a few yrs ago.  Mines rated at 20hp and I have it coupled to an ST10 Gen Head for storm duty.  Great insurance as I've not needed it since I built it 7 yrs ago.  That little Kubota would be worth sourcing a 2500 Watt AC Head for.  Or maybe you plan/have a decent sized Inverter to go with the battery bank?  It's the perfect size for topping up the battery bank on cloudy days.



Is this like your Changfa setup?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-hl2yfODME




Mines closer to this one when finished:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN5-nhcjH_A

It's still in transition and not completed.  I've sourced a disk brake rotor and lovejoy coupler since I don't like the cheap coupler I have now.  I need to get some time on my buddies lathe.  I'll also be adding panels so it could be "portable" for power, well as much as 1000lbs of Chinese cast iron can be portable.  It was setup for stationary power and wired to the wall.  I upgraded the service to my shop with a new panel etc and the generator input will be there with a drop cord.  The main disconnect is on the pole and I'll backfeed the house and well from the shop.  Should keep the noise down a bit in the house.
Link Posted: 10/1/2013 9:21:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Today I got the little Kubota hooked up all the return fuel hoses, and feed to a Sceptre MFC, used a Sea-Something fuse block for the glow plug, fuel pump, starter ckt, etc, and wired up. And a terminal strip for switches to come rather than having to pinch two wires together to start.  

Well, it ran a few seconds and quit. So I spent an hour+ and finally figgered out how to bleed all the lines. After getting soaked in diesel fuel.

Now it starts and it isn't the tame and quiet pussycat I thought.

Moving the speed lever forward and she cracks pretty bad.

Tomorrow I'll hook the alternator to the battery bank and fuse it with a 200 amp fuse for starters. Researching on the web I found a lot of private boats use these engines to turn alternators, gennys and RO pumps.

It looks like the EA300 is happy producing 110 amps according to one topic.

Later I may pick up a genny engine controller for gas and diesel, and set it up for remote start over the internet, with an IP cam, so I can watch it, and a time delay failsafe shutdown.


Link Posted: 10/1/2013 9:35:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

It looks like the EA300 is happy producing 110 amps according to one topic.
View Quote


Efficiency tends to be quite a bit better at reduced output current - Much less I²R losses.
Link Posted: 10/3/2013 5:15:02 PM EDT
[#21]
OK, have some data...

Wednesday I spent the day working on the Kubota with a 22SI Delco 150 amp alternator.

Got a nice fuel system rigged up with a Scepter MFC, with the vent and 3 fuel returns and one supply.

The lowest speed the engine seemed real happy was 1700 to 1800 rpm.

Ebay has a tach like this one...

tach

That works great for $18.

The pulley ratio on the engine and alt steps up the alt rpm to abt 2800.

I hooked the output of the alternator to the battery bank and loaded it with about 60 amps of lights, etc.

The Kubota wouldn't start with the self excited alt connected to the load.

W/ engine running at 1700, the alt was putting out about 120 amps, right with Delco's spec.

The engine was well loaded, more than I want.

Soooo, what I needed to be able to do is trick the alternator to think the bank was pretty much full, close to the shutoff voltage of the alt, abt 14 vdc or thereabts.

But the alternator didn't have a [readily] available remote sense conx. It does have a connector on top, 2 spade terminals. with a small bridge jumper, that when removed makes spade #2 the sense input. Unfortunately, my alt also has an internal strap, so has to be dishassembled to remove the strap, from the B+ terminal to the sense term on the reg.

Here's my thinking re tricking the alt regulator...

If I can enable the sense terminal and apply a voltage more positive than the alternator's output, then the reg/alt will ramp the charge current down in proportion to the increased sense terminal bias.

So, I tore the alt apart, removed the strap to the reg and enabled remote sense on terminal #2.

Put it altogether, it was getting late, and tested it with no output.

I have no idea what I did wrong.

My SO wanted to take the ATV and collect some rocks and I fueled it, messed with the off, on , reserve valve that we never touch, and the damn thing I replaced 5 years ago started leaking.  So I had to tear that all apart and then come off the mnt to get parts. Going to rebuild the carb while everything's apart.

So, the alternator doesn't work, had problems retaining the brushes back, had to drill the tiny hole out, maybe I busted something, I dunno. I bought another 22SI cheap at the junkyard, it has bad bearings, maybe I'll replace them and try it. [The truck it came off was wired for remote sense and when I looked at the alt, they never enabled R-S on the alt they put on it.... Wonder how many issues they had with their charging system.

At least the second bad alt likely has a good reg and I can use it as a reference to try to get the first one working tomorrow.



Link Posted: 10/4/2013 3:23:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Ha, now we're cookin...

Got some Leece Nevilles...

Now to figger out how to remote sense them.


Fullpower, help....

The big one is here:

http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_products/specs.php?item_detail_id=35066&item=8LHA2070VF&product=Alternator



And the smaller one is here:

http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_products/specs.php?item_detail_id=24115&item=MDA2932&product=Alternator



whut????

Quote...

3. With a voltmeter set to “DC” measure the batery voltage at the primary positive and negative connection points. This should
be above 12.45 volts in 12 volt systems and 24.9 volts in 24 volt systems. If it is less charge the batteries to or above 12.45
volts for 12 volt systems and 24.9 volts for 24 volt systems before proceeding. Failure to do so could contribute to immediate
damage of the alternator.


http://www.prestolite.com/literature/tech/alts/TSB-1132_Installation_Instructions_8LHA-8LHP.pdf


Link Posted: 10/4/2013 4:21:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:

What I found surprising was how quiet it is with the intake seemingly making more combustion/breathing noise than the exhaust.

I'm dumbfounded how little noise was coming from the exhaust.

Sure diesels are high compression, but is the burn less 'expozive' than small gas lawnmower engines?

View Quote



I can answer this question:

Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines, and the fuel has a higher energy density as well. You are hearing less exhause noise because the burn is more complete before the exhaust valve opens. With a Gas engine, the fuel is still exploding and burning as it heads down the exhaust header.

The burn is probably more 'esplosiv' than a gas engine, but due to the bore/stroke ratio in a diesel engine the boom is over sooner and is more complete. Diesel engines are pretty amazing-it's too bad the exhaust is so smelly, they could have pushed mankind a lot farther if the public were more accepting of them until modern clean exhaust technology came along. Gasoline was a byproduct of diesel production in the early days-it was thrown away.

One of my daydream projects is a diesel powered minibike. That would be a pretty cool SHTF vehicle..... and the fuel will last indefinitely with some bacteria killing additives.
Link Posted: 10/4/2013 7:33:18 PM EDT
[#24]
You finding them on Gov Liquidation?

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I love lil diesel engines like that.........
I have a pile of Yanmar L48, L60, L70 and L100 series engines kicking around waiting for projects.
I just bought 3 L60s for $20 a piece with less than 300 hours on them. Came with 28v DC gen sets.

I like Yanmar engines as you can get them cheap as .gov surplus.......Uncle Sugar loves to throw
away tax payers money.......
View Quote

Link Posted: 10/5/2013 9:03:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I can answer this question:

Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines, and the fuel has a higher energy density as well. You are hearing less exhause noise because the burn is more complete before the exhaust valve opens. With a Gas engine, the fuel is still exploding and burning as it heads down the exhaust header.

The burn is probably more 'esplosiv' than a gas engine, but due to the bore/stroke ratio in a diesel engine the boom is over sooner and is more complete. Diesel engines are pretty amazing-it's too bad the exhaust is so smelly, they could have pushed mankind a lot farther if the public were more accepting of them until modern clean exhaust technology came along. Gasoline was a byproduct of diesel production in the early days-it was thrown away.

One of my daydream projects is a diesel powered minibike. That would be a pretty cool SHTF vehicle..... and the fuel will last indefinitely with some bacteria killing additives.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

What I found surprising was how quiet it is with the intake seemingly making more combustion/breathing noise than the exhaust.

I'm dumbfounded how little noise was coming from the exhaust.

Sure diesels are high compression, but is the burn less 'expozive' than small gas lawnmower engines?




I can answer this question:

Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines, and the fuel has a higher energy density as well. You are hearing less exhause noise because the burn is more complete before the exhaust valve opens. With a Gas engine, the fuel is still exploding and burning as it heads down the exhaust header.

The burn is probably more 'esplosiv' than a gas engine, but due to the bore/stroke ratio in a diesel engine the boom is over sooner and is more complete. Diesel engines are pretty amazing-it's too bad the exhaust is so smelly, they could have pushed mankind a lot farther if the public were more accepting of them until modern clean exhaust technology came along. Gasoline was a byproduct of diesel production in the early days-it was thrown away.

One of my daydream projects is a diesel powered minibike. That would be a pretty cool SHTF vehicle..... and the fuel will last indefinitely with some bacteria killing additives.



Thanks I was sorta thinking along those lines.

Now when it's loaded, it's a lost noiser, but not too bad.

The intake makes a lot of noise and I used some sump pump hose to remote it and that helped.

I am hoping to install it inside the building and remote the intake and exhaust, to protect it from the elements.

The basic footprint is only ant 30 " by 16". or about a long narrower chair.


Link Posted: 10/5/2013 9:07:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You finding them on Gov Liquidation?


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You finding them on Gov Liquidation?

Quoted:
I love lil diesel engines like that.........
I have a pile of Yanmar L48, L60, L70 and L100 series engines kicking around waiting for projects.
I just bought 3 L60s for $20 a piece with less than 300 hours on them. Came with 28v DC gen sets.

I like Yanmar engines as you can get them cheap as .gov surplus.......Uncle Sugar loves to throw
away tax payers money.......




All sorts of places to look, start with ebay, to see prices and the market. Then Craigslist, surplus auctions, maybe even salvage a little diesel from some yard tractors.

Also, reefer cooling units  have small diesel engines and I read they were plentiful.

Link Posted: 10/5/2013 9:11:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Spent most of yesterday researching and studying the Leece Neville alternators I scored.

Tomorrow after fixing the ATV, I'm going to try to see why the Delco that was working has no output after I mod'd it for remote sense.

Anyhow, I have come to the conclusion that tricking the remote sense may not be the best approach.

What I need to do is to limit the output current of these ~150 amp alternators to about 90 amps.

I've thought of several approaches...

1/ Disconnect one of the 3 stator windings at the diodes.

2/ Introduce series resistance into the current fed to the rotating field by the regulator, so when we came up I brought a nice lab type sliding rheostat like this one. But enclosed. 52 ohms at 5 amps.




3/ Or, series connect a string of a couple power diodes in the field circuit. They could be switched for different output currents.

This would limit the current to the field and both 2 and 3 would still take advantage of the ~14.2 volt cutoff voltage point of the regulator.


Remember, I'm trying to limit the output of these big alternators to about 90 amps vs 160.

I could just get another alternator, or run at a lower speed with a larger alt pully dia, but that isn't happening in the next couple days.


As Skibane has pointed out, running a big alternator at a lower point on its output curve will likely provide greater efficiency.


Link Posted: 10/7/2013 4:20:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Hooked everything up today with the 150 A Leece Neville alternator.

It took about 3 ohms in series with the field to get about 70 amps of charge, exactly what I'm looking for.

Have been running it an hour, charging the bats to see what various parameters are. Taking data.

Typically, the alternator is putting out 70 amps, the bat bank voltage is 13.5, the field current is 3 amps, the voltage across the resistor is 6.7.

The alt output voltage is 14.5 at the terminals and I don't know what the max charge voltage is.  That's power out of the alt of ~1000 watts.

I have a lot of loss in the #2 aircraft hookup wire to the bat bank.  About 20 feet round trip for the electrons.  

Kubota RPM is 2000 [seems happy there] and the alt is spinning about 3000, and loafing.

I took pix of  everything if anyone is interested.


I'm trying to visualize the effect of diodes in series with the field instead of a resistor.




Link Posted: 10/7/2013 4:34:17 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:


Please don't do this anymore.  Modern alternators needs a 12 vdc battery to stabilize and help regulate their voltage.  Tons of information out there about disconnecting batteries while an engine is running and the dangers it poses to the vehicle electronics and to the alternator itself.

Oh, and pics of the engine!!!

thanks,

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Started a little diesel Kubota 1 cyl 4 or 5 HP engine last night.  Just about the littlest of the smallest long life engines, a E300A model.

Horizontal cyl. Looks like a compact technically advanced version of the small Pettier or whatever diesels of the 1st half of last century.

It ran maybe 20 seconds on the fuel it was able to get into it's injection pump from the fuel filter and I cut it off, ran it up to less than 2000 RPM's for a few seconds a couple times, and mostly observed it. Tested the electric starter a few time, etc.

It had the stock air cleaner on it but the exhaust port is wide open.

What I found surprising was how quiet it is with the intake seemingly making more combustion/breathing noise than the exhaust.

I'm dumbfounded how little noise was coming from the exhaust.

Sure diesels are high compression, but is the burn less 'expozive' than small gas lawnmower engines?

I had an old Cushman scooter engine that I traded for something on my paper route and that thing ran low RPM but LOUD.

So I don't know what to make of this.

I had it hooked to a 150 amp 12 volt alternator with a serpentine belt, but haven't hooked the alternator to a battery bank yet, so there was no real load on the engine.


Oh, the diesel fuel had sat in the F-F and pump open to atmosphere for YEARS since it last run. It started first turn of the key [well, there's no key, just me touching the starter wire to the battery after touching the glow plug wire to it prior].

It's in nice shape and not used much.



Please don't do this anymore.  Modern alternators needs a 12 vdc battery to stabilize and help regulate their voltage.  Tons of information out there about disconnecting batteries while an engine is running and the dangers it poses to the vehicle electronics and to the alternator itself.

Oh, and pics of the engine!!!

thanks,




I'm able and do for testing, switch the field on and off at will...




Eating supper and monitoring running genny sitting on work bench, via IP camera, handy things.

This system is similar to the old Delco lightplants of the late 20's, 30's and beyond, just far higher tech.

Overall design is the same.

This system, scaled [smaller or bigger] for load needed, is perfect to keep a battery bank charged.





Link Posted: 10/7/2013 6:40:00 PM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:
I'm trying to visualize the effect of diodes in series with the field instead of a resistor.
View Quote


Since you're dropping 6.7 volts across the resistor, you'd need to connect around 11 diodes in series to get roughly the same voltage drop (assuming a forward voltage of 0.6 volts per diode) - and since there's 3 amps flowing through that circuit, you're going to need diodes considerably beefier than plain ol' 1N4001's...

You could connect a rotary switch to various taps on the diode string, in order to adjust the field current in discrete steps.

Any idea what the fuel consumption is, at that engine speed and electrical load?
Link Posted: 10/7/2013 9:37:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Here's a cute lil Yanmar L40A engine powering an air compressor.
I was thinking it might be fun to add an alternator in to a rig like this........
Link Posted: 10/7/2013 10:29:16 PM EDT
[#32]
VERY slick setup.

You've already got 90 percent of the hardware in place for an engine-charger - and the other 10 percent wouldn't be very expensive or difficult to install.

Most engine-chargers use a larger-diameter pulley on the engine than on the alternator - which means that you might want to install dual pulleys on the engine output shaft (i.e., small-diameter for driving the air compressor, and large-diameter for driving the alternator).
Link Posted: 10/7/2013 10:51:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Since you're dropping 6.7 volts across the resistor, you'd need to connect around 11 diodes in series to get roughly the same voltage drop (assuming a forward voltage of 0.6 volts per diode) - and since there's 3 amps flowing through that circuit, you're going to need diodes considerably beefier than plain ol' 1N4001's...

You could connect a rotary switch to various taps on the diode string, in order to adjust the field current in discrete steps.

Any idea what the fuel consumption is, at that engine speed and electrical load?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm trying to visualize the effect of diodes in series with the field instead of a resistor.


Since you're dropping 6.7 volts across the resistor, you'd need to connect around 11 diodes in series to get roughly the same voltage drop (assuming a forward voltage of 0.6 volts per diode) - and since there's 3 amps flowing through that circuit, you're going to need diodes considerably beefier than plain ol' 1N4001's...

You could connect a rotary switch to various taps on the diode string, in order to adjust the field current in discrete steps.

Any idea what the fuel consumption is, at that engine speed and electrical load?



I guess there's no effective difference ckt-wise between the resistor and a diode string. Both will dissipate the same heat for a given voltage drop.

I did hook one diode in series with the resistor after supper and I'm not sure if it acted funny or not, because by then, the current had dropped to 45 amps and the V at the alt was abt 14.45. Frankly, I thought it would cut off between 13.8 and 14.4 like Leece Neville's manual references.

Once the panels charge the batteries back up to float [15.5 volts] I can load the batteries and get different 'apparent' charged voltages to see how the alternator reacts.


As far as fuel consumption, there are one fuel feed to the fuel filter and 3 returns, incl one from the injector. I've got a plastic grad cylinder that I can tape to a vertical support and let things stabilize in it and then measure. Hopefully tomorrow if I return.

I didn't think the big L-N alternator would fit the mount but tried it again tonight and it actually fits. It's a horse, for a 150 amp alternator, and was put on the truck they scrapped out this year.

The reason the Delco alt failed is I cut the fine braided wire to one of the brushes when I retained the brushes to reinstall the shaft and commutators into the end case.

I'll pick one up tomorrow.



Like F-P says, L-N makes a beautiful beefy well machined/cast alternator.

I was running the smaller 150A MDA alternator that I mentioned the p.n., above, this evening.

Also was surprised how smoothly and easily the output current would vary with a resistance change.

Link Posted: 10/7/2013 10:55:03 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Here's a cute lil Yanmar L40A engine powering an air compressor.
I was thinking it might be fun to add an alternator in to a rig like this........
http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss273/Gunwritr/Truck%20Crane%20on%20Deuce/small%20diesels/20130913_191349_resized_1_zps05b0eef4.jpg
View Quote



That's nice. Ebay is selling some similar engines for ~$650 IIRC.

Link Posted: 10/9/2013 4:18:06 PM EDT
[#35]
Ski,  more data re fuel consumption.

Took a plastic grad cylinder, 500 ml, inserted the source and return lines in it, filled it with one of those wonderful kero heater pumps.

Ran the genny slow to get everything purged, then set 60 amps, and ran a minute until the fuel level was at 275 ml.

Set RPM under 60 A load at 2000 RPM.

Took readings every few minutes and shut down at 75 ml remaining.

So, 200 ml consumed in 19 minutes.

That's .62 L per hour putting out 816 watts [13.6v x 60A = 816 watts]

Or  .66  qts/hr   >   6.06  hrs per gallon


BSFC @ 2000 RPM:    .47 pounds of fuel per hour per HP


1 Quart diesel weighs 1.75 pounds.

We're burning...  

2/3 x 1.75 per hour = 1.155 pounds per hour


Or, ~2.5 HP being developed.

NOTE this is at high altitude...







Link Posted: 10/9/2013 4:33:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That's .62 L per hour putting out 816 watts [13.6v x 60A = 816 watts]

Or  .66  qts/hr   >   6.06  hrs per gallon
View Quote


Interesting...

That would be almost exactly 0.2 gal/KWH.
Link Posted: 10/9/2013 4:37:21 PM EDT
[#37]
I think that's right Ski...

That's 5 hrs runtime at 1 KW ----per gallon.

See more numbers above.

Is this good or bad?


Link Posted: 10/9/2013 5:08:07 PM EDT
[#38]
I've been powering my lab here with a Honda 2000 when the sun isn't putting out enuf juice...

IIRC it has to be filled about every 9 hours at a 700 watt load. Just a rough guess.


Honda engine data...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?242972-Honda-eu2000-fuel-usage-analysis


Looks close enough to the Kubota...

I expect at higher RPM and more amps, the efficiency would go up.



Link Posted: 10/9/2013 5:43:40 PM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:
I think that's right Ski...

That's 5 hrs runtime at 1 KW ----per gallon.

See more numbers above.

Is this good or bad?
View Quote


It's the same as a typical gasoline-fueled generator - but still quite a bit higher than a diesel genset (approx 0.1 gal/KWH).

However, if you were using an ordinary generator to charge batteries, there would be some additional losses in the battery charger - which you don't have with your engine-charger rig. So, it's probably more fuel-efficient than a gas-fueled generator for battery charging.
Link Posted: 10/9/2013 7:42:39 PM EDT
[#40]
I think if I were running at a higher RPM, and using the engine to produce more power vs the 'maintenance' power just to keep it running, that the efficiency might improve.

Since it's all set up, I may run 120 amps into the batteries for 15 minutes or so and see what that efficiency is.

This genny is to keep the batteries with some charge in them if the sun doesn't shine much for a while. And also to make a net unchanged drain [pretty much] on the batteries when running heavier loads than what they are usually used for.

A small gas engine with an alt head like we've talked abt here several times, and that there are kits for the mounting plates, [OtherPower I think] would do the same thing.

The issue I have is storing gas vs diesel for long times [yeh I know]  without special sealed containers etc.

Diesel has about 20% more BTU's as well and is easy to store and safer and can be used for the heater.

When I was loading the Kubota with the field current rheostat, I watched the exhaust with the beam of my pocket Fenix, and found where it began to smoke, then backed off. Did that a lot and related the exhaust to the sound of the engine to get a feel of what might be an optimum point as far as economy and wear and tear.

I was surprised that when the engine was set say to 2000 RPM, loading it with 80 amps, would reduce the speed by abt 80 rpm.

I expected the governor to be more accurate, but I might have been beyond the effective range of it.



Link Posted: 10/9/2013 8:27:32 PM EDT
[#41]
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Since it's all set up, I may run 120 amps into the batteries for 15 minutes or so and see what that efficiency is
View Quote


Naw, the official rules don't allow you to do that!

The alternator will loose efficiency as it heats up (which is why some alternators have a separate "hot" spec for current output) - and 15 minutes isn't long enough to get it good and hot!
Link Posted: 10/9/2013 8:36:22 PM EDT
[#42]
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Quoted:


Naw, the official rules don't allow you to do that!

The alternator will loose efficiency as it heats up (which is why some alternators have a separate "hot" spec for current output) - and 15 minutes isn't long enough to get it good and hot!
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Since it's all set up, I may run 120 amps into the batteries for 15 minutes or so and see what that efficiency is


Naw, the official rules don't allow you to do that!

The alternator will loose efficiency as it heats up (which is why some alternators have a separate "hot" spec for current output) - and 15 minutes isn't long enough to get it good and hot!



I've been told pix have been removed from the cam and will be emailed to me.  


These L-N alternators are a work to behold.

At 80 amps they are just warm to the touch.

Here's a related link you may enjoy...


http://mvvikingstar.blogspot.com/search/label/Kubota%20DC%20Generator


And, scroll to the graph, data is similar to mine, altho mine is limited, and he's pushing his as hard as he can.


http://mvvikingstar.blogspot.com/search/label/Kubota%20DC%20Generator





Link Posted: 10/9/2013 9:09:41 PM EDT
[#43]
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And, scroll to the graph, data is similar to mine, altho mine is limited, and he's pushing his as hard as he can
http://mvvikingstar.blogspot.com/search/label/Kubota%20DC%20Generator
View Quote


He's only running the alternator at full output current for around 800,000 ms - which is roughly 13 minutes.
Link Posted: 10/10/2013 12:03:24 PM EDT
[#44]
Here's a pix of the bigger smaller Leece-Neville alternator.

Both are rated to 150A






Link Posted: 10/10/2013 12:15:53 PM EDT
[#45]
This is the smaller L-N alternator...

And how the field is connected to an external rheostat via the red and black wires.





Link Posted: 10/18/2013 3:52:28 PM EDT
[#46]
Been making a lot of progress with the genny.

Made a nice support for it, that can go inside or out. Have been going back and forth and have finally decided to locate it inside next to the battery bank, on the floor. If the noise is to great, then make an acoustic housing.

Will feed  the exhaust and intake thru the wall, as the intake itself makes a fair amount of noise.

A suggestion for anyone who might want to try hooking a small engine to an alternator.

Fullpower commented early on about the Leece Neville being the top of the line. I'll admit being intimidated just by the exotic name since it isn't common compared to Delco, etc.

But holy cow, are they nicely made. The brushes can be replaced by simply removing the regulator plate on the back, the bearings are large, etc.

Check junkyards for a used one for practically nuthin.

Get a big one because between the smaller case size 150 amp and the big 150 case size, looking at the data I collected last week, the bigger one seems to require less field current for a given output [in my case I'm shooting for 80 amps]

So, the alt is just loafing. Even if you just want a small amperage.

The winding are heavy too. Ebay has plenty of these and this the past 2 weeks I've seen used ones go for less than $50.

I've come up with [what I think is a clever way    ] to mount a H-Fright red handled battery switch, and then put a Shamut 150 amp fuse after it, and then the fuse terminal plate will serve to connect to the buss wire to the battery bank. Pix later if folks are interested.

Trying to figger out how to monitor the rpm, since there is no spark to pick up. Want to display it so I can see it via IP camera remotely. The alternators have a pickoff from the 3 phase and trucks commonly use this for the rpm gauge -I think.

I found what went wrong with the Delco, I cut one of the fine brush wires trying to put it back together. I bought a couple new sets, they are not much, also the regulator for it is cheap.

The Delco is a huge pain in the ass to work with vs the L-N. However both are very doable.

One issue is routing the field wires from the inside of the alternator and the L-N makes it a piece of cake.

I drilled a hole in the regulator housing to bring the two wires through.

I've got more suitable rheostats now to substitute for the lab type sliding one. I think I will use a rotary one and add a couple 30 watt or so resistors in series and parallel or whatever, to set the field current from zero to 4 or 5 amps.

It takes from a high resist to about 2 ohms to cover the range.

It's fun to change the resistance in series with the field and see the output current smoothly go from 0 to 70 to enough amps to make the belt slip if it isn't tight.



Anyhoo, I'd suggest folks consider whipping some version of this 12 [or 24 or 48 volt] bad boy because you will learn a hellofalot and make yourself stronger and it won't cost much. And you have folks on this forum to get instant answers to your questions.

A small one with an old lawnmower engine could be handy to charge batteries a la Jack Spirco/Steve Harris style...  Without having to run your car or truck engine to do it...  




I think I will put one of the shunts and digital readout [bought them a while back for abt $7 each off ebay, asia engineer is one of many selling them], and a digital volt meter, etc, to measure field current, output current and voltage -at a glance or via camera.

Also, an oil pressure switch and gauge working on that... An engine temp sw3087...



Link Posted: 12/12/2013 5:49:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Anyone have suggestions for an inline electric [12 vdc] -low pressure- fuel pump? Need just enough pressure to lift the fuel the height of a MFC, circulate the fuel thru the engine filter, and only need a little volume.

Have made slow progress on the genny and have worked on it catch as catch can.

Made a complicated [for me] mount for the muffler, [used 18 ga 4 and 6 inch stud material, looks real good and is plenty 'stiff'], and an electrical panel for the high current output and ancillary loads -but have to redo it with something more complex because of the additional features being added.

Tonight we finished a side mount to hold a Scepter MFC and the group 51? battery [a small [smallest?] one].  The mount is a cut down piece of heavy gauge 10" metal stud material.

Two thick aluminum blocks add to the rigidity of the 'shelf'.

I've added cheap oil pressure and water temp sensors and gauges, but will replace those.

SO forgot the camera so no new pics, yet. The sun has been out sufficiently to keep the batteries OK so no need to run this besides the few hour run a couple weeks ago when the sun didn't shine for awhile and I had previously run the bats down, they couldn't catch up w/ the sun available.

One nice feature is we added a Harbor Freight hydraulic lift table as the main mount for the entire system. I looked at all sorts of alternatives and considering the table can be raised to working height and lowered to run the genny, and I pulled a 25% off coupon from the web, it was a no brainer. I want to keep it in the building except when needed to run so the large wheels on the table make it easy to roll in and out.

The HF table made a nice stiff support to mount the fuel and battery shelf and everything follows when raising or lowering the table.



Link Posted: 12/13/2013 1:55:30 PM EDT
[#48]
I'd get a little solenoid impulse pump, probably a Facet Cube.  They're cheap, run forever, and are popular with the VW Bettle or DuneBuggy crowd.  They run around $50 or a no name knockoff is around $30
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:09:00 PM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:
I'd get a little solenoid impulse pump, probably a Facet Cube.  They're cheap, run forever, and are popular with the VW Bettle or DuneBuggy crowd.  They run around $50 or a no name knockoff is around $30
View Quote



Looks perfect -Thanks!


Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:01:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Very nice . Let me add my two cents from the past 10 years of medium duty trucks . When the Leece Neville dies replace it with a delco and never look back. You can regularly buy delco's new for around $150 they out lived the leece Neville by years in fleet service .. I like your idea a lot.

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