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Posted: 6/1/2015 5:10:23 AM EDT
[#1]
Thanks for the Update.
Brings up an important point. Money, being the most important survival prep there is. We don't discuss it much. Perhaps because it's not as interesting as other subjects ( or, because it's so difficult to hoard). It's always good to remind ourselves of the importance of liquidity; be it cash, PM's, Stocks, or whatever. How much total would you have needed to live there without any worries? |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 5:33:05 AM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for the update. Welcome back and best of luck stateside.
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Posted: 6/1/2015 8:21:46 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the Update. Brings up an important point. Money, being the most important survival prep there is. We don't discuss it much. Perhaps because it's not as interesting as other subjects ( or, because it's so difficult to hoard). It's always good to remind ourselves of the importance of liquidity; be it cash, PM's, Stocks, or whatever. How much total would you have needed to live there without any worries? Agreed, or in lieu of money something of real value to trade. And actually they did do some trading down there. I can think of one particular item that I saw traded several times...Anyone have any guesses as to what it was? But to answer your question, you could live cheaply if you were 100% established and I you did not use your boat a lot. But if you want to live close to a lifestyle that an American has with dinner out with friends, and moving around the islands to sightsee or fish and dive you probably need $1500-$2000 a month possibly as little as $1200 which is what is the required couple income for a pensionado visa. However in addition to this you are going to need a decent lump of cash to deal with unexpected and expensive items such as suddenly needing another boat engine or your solar batteries crapping out. |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 9:03:23 AM EDT
[#4]
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Hopefully this will give some people who think that they would bail on the US if things got bad a reason to re-consider. Sorry your adventure didn't workout Canoeguy but it was very interesting for us all to read your thread. Thanks for posting!! Colt...folks I think see it as an easy out...which is why its popular these days ...plus when folks go "ohh I could live in xyz for 800$ usd a month."" ..the eyes get wide and light bulbs flicker....and of course its an idea that gets pimped by a few online personalities and folks gobble it up..is what it is....grass is greener till you hop the fence... Thx for the update been a cool read. Lots of info. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 10:16:22 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Colt...folks I think see it as an easy out...which is why its popular these days ...plus when folks go "ohh I could live in xyz for 800$ usd a month."" ..the eyes get wide and light bulbs flicker....and of course its an idea that gets pimped by a few online personalities and folks gobble it up..is what it is....grass is greener till you hop the fence... Thx for the update been a cool read. Lots of info. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hopefully this will give some people who think that they would bail on the US if things got bad a reason to re-consider. Sorry your adventure didn't workout Canoeguy but it was very interesting for us all to read your thread. Thanks for posting!! Colt...folks I think see it as an easy out...which is why its popular these days ...plus when folks go "ohh I could live in xyz for 800$ usd a month."" ..the eyes get wide and light bulbs flicker....and of course its an idea that gets pimped by a few online personalities and folks gobble it up..is what it is....grass is greener till you hop the fence... Thx for the update been a cool read. Lots of info. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I am going to quote both you guys on this because I don't want people to see my failure as a lesson to not try this themselves. I still feel that going there full time as a bug out or more realistically a retirement is a viable option....if you are set up 100%. Having said that I can not really imagine a scenario where bugging out there in a true crisis would be any better than bugging out in rural America. II met several expats running from future disasters they perceived were coming in America. I don't think they were any better prepared there than they could have been here. However I want everyone to realize that I was not fleeing the US for SHTF reasons. My motivation to give this a go was simply that I love the jungle and the sea. I have also said time and again that we as preppers can lose sight of living life at times and I want to die knowing I lived it the best I could. |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 2:45:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am going to quote both you guys on this because I don't want people to see my failure as a lesson to not try this themselves. I still feel that going there full time as a bug out or more realistically a retirement is a viable option....if you are set up 100%. Having said that I can not really imagine a scenario where bugging out there in a true crisis would be any better than bugging out in rural America. II met several expats running from future disasters they perceived were coming in America. I don't think they were any better prepared there than they could have been here. However I want everyone to realize that I was not fleeing the US for SHTF reasons. My motivation to give this a go was simply that I love the jungle and the sea. I have also said time and again that we as preppers can lose sight of living life at times and I want to die knowing I lived it the best I could. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hopefully this will give some people who think that they would bail on the US if things got bad a reason to re-consider. Sorry your adventure didn't workout Canoeguy but it was very interesting for us all to read your thread. Thanks for posting!! Colt...folks I think see it as an easy out...which is why its popular these days ...plus when folks go "ohh I could live in xyz for 800$ usd a month."" ..the eyes get wide and light bulbs flicker....and of course its an idea that gets pimped by a few online personalities and folks gobble it up..is what it is....grass is greener till you hop the fence... Thx for the update been a cool read. Lots of info. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I am going to quote both you guys on this because I don't want people to see my failure as a lesson to not try this themselves. I still feel that going there full time as a bug out or more realistically a retirement is a viable option....if you are set up 100%. Having said that I can not really imagine a scenario where bugging out there in a true crisis would be any better than bugging out in rural America. II met several expats running from future disasters they perceived were coming in America. I don't think they were any better prepared there than they could have been here. However I want everyone to realize that I was not fleeing the US for SHTF reasons. My motivation to give this a go was simply that I love the jungle and the sea. I have also said time and again that we as preppers can lose sight of living life at times and I want to die knowing I lived it the best I could. Reference the part in red....never thought you were trying to escape America. Reference the part in blue....agree 100%. Many time preppers are so concerned with trying to survive some unknown threat that they forget to actually live a little. I've read people ask about things like going on a cruise and some hard corps preppers recommend not going on a cruise because it "could be dangerous". However, my wife and I went on a cruise a couple years ago and had a great time. |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 3:51:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Canoeguy,
I commend you on both the initial jump into the abyss and on having the sense to not press the issue when you saw that it wasn't quite what you had planned for! My family and I did a similar dance in 2013. After dreaming about it for over 10 years, I walked away from a job I had been at for 17 years, we sold everything and moved onto a 34' sailboat with two kids. We spent 4 months rebuilding the rigging and updating various systems ( I hate onboard septic systems!!! ) and planned on cruising from WA state to Mexico and beyond. Less than a month into our shakedown cruise in the Puget Sound I could tell that my kids were bored to tears and I hadn't found a way to generate income from the boat yet. We had a family talk, decided to sell the boat and move on. We are now in San Antonio, TX where we love the sunshine, I'm in a job that I really enjoy and I'm a co-founder of a startup that has huge potential. All of that to say that often times the reward is the journey and not the destination. I hope that you find all that you are looking for, even if it isn't where you are expecting to find it. |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 4:46:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am going to quote both you guys on this because I don't want people to see my failure as a lesson to not try this themselves. I still feel that going there full time as a bug out or more realistically a retirement is a viable option....if you are set up 100%. Having said that I can not really imagine a scenario where bugging out there in a true crisis would be any better than bugging out in rural America. II met several expats running from future disasters they perceived were coming in America. I don't think they were any better prepared there than they could have been here. However I want everyone to realize that I was not fleeing the US for SHTF reasons. My motivation to give this a go was simply that I love the jungle and the sea. I have also said time and again that we as preppers can lose sight of living life at times and I want to die knowing I lived it the best I could. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Hopefully this will give some people who think that they would bail on the US if things got bad a reason to re-consider. Sorry your adventure didn't workout Canoeguy but it was very interesting for us all to read your thread. Thanks for posting!! Colt...folks I think see it as an easy out...which is why its popular these days ...plus when folks go "ohh I could live in xyz for 800$ usd a month."" ..the eyes get wide and light bulbs flicker....and of course its an idea that gets pimped by a few online personalities and folks gobble it up..is what it is....grass is greener till you hop the fence... Thx for the update been a cool read. Lots of info. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I am going to quote both you guys on this because I don't want people to see my failure as a lesson to not try this themselves. I still feel that going there full time as a bug out or more realistically a retirement is a viable option....if you are set up 100%. Having said that I can not really imagine a scenario where bugging out there in a true crisis would be any better than bugging out in rural America. II met several expats running from future disasters they perceived were coming in America. I don't think they were any better prepared there than they could have been here. However I want everyone to realize that I was not fleeing the US for SHTF reasons. My motivation to give this a go was simply that I love the jungle and the sea. I have also said time and again that we as preppers can lose sight of living life at times and I want to die knowing I lived it the best I could. Prolly came out wrong trying to Peck out a post. Had a conversation with a buddy who knows folks who've left for other lessor developed places (south America ..south east Asia etc) . My folks tried it as well...none of them left the US as a shtf plan. They went because they wanted to (like you did) or just wanted to stretch out their funds due to.lower living cost in their retirement years. I think having it as a shtf plan is kinda faulty along lines of those how plan to bug out to a national forest or a small plot of land....with out any prior foot work or infrastructure in place (power /water or a people network to draw from) . Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 6/2/2015 12:52:14 PM EDT
[#9]
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OK so here is the big update... We are back in the US. There I said it. It is kind of sore to say it as I feel a little defeated. And in only four months. So here is what happened, and I told you guys I would always be upfront so as to give anyone thinking about this a real look as to what it is like... I simply could not catch a break when it came to work. And any job at all would have been fine. I was confident that being a dive instructor would help me obtain a job at a shop. But I didn't count on the Panama factor. Basically it is like this, dive shops are governed by a body of organizations. these folks, like PADI, give guidelines on how a shop must be run as far as safety, teaching, and such or else they will pull their name from their organization. What I failed to account for is that Bocas is far enough off the path that they just don't care. And I saw some crazy practices being done. This will change as the area grows, but doesn't help me now. SO we were there in Panama, getting nothing done but hemorrhaging money. We were getting frustrated and felt like we would have been better off buying a business as opposed to land. And about a month ago we just agreed that we need to come back to the US and make more money. And we needed to do it while we still had enough cash to get reestablished. So that night we bought tickets for about three weeks ago. And like that we are back in the states. Now don't feel bad for me. I had three job offers before I landed. In the end my wife and I agreed to come back to running the Log Home business but that is another story. This also the reason I haven't been updating as I have been quite busy fixing the mess here at the business and honestly my pride is still a little stung. But as I said from the beginning I always had the ability to bail and I am not one to carry down a path to utter ruin when I can see the writing on the wall. SO what is the current state of things? Well we have our dock in. the property is cleaned up and access has been cut to the home sight. this will be maintained while we are gone. We can get our residency here from the States now that we have accounts established in Panama. Here in the US? We have basically nothing. We have been buying some furniture a piece or two at a time. I had my preps stored safely, so no worries there. Really it is kind of exciting. we cleaned out 14 years of junk and now are much wiser about what we need and want. So I have some more thoughts to share on the good and bad and what we might do now but you guys have been along with me on this journey so I will let you who are interested ask me what you will and we will lay it all out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK so here is the big update... We are back in the US. There I said it. It is kind of sore to say it as I feel a little defeated. And in only four months. So here is what happened, and I told you guys I would always be upfront so as to give anyone thinking about this a real look as to what it is like... I simply could not catch a break when it came to work. And any job at all would have been fine. I was confident that being a dive instructor would help me obtain a job at a shop. But I didn't count on the Panama factor. Basically it is like this, dive shops are governed by a body of organizations. these folks, like PADI, give guidelines on how a shop must be run as far as safety, teaching, and such or else they will pull their name from their organization. What I failed to account for is that Bocas is far enough off the path that they just don't care. And I saw some crazy practices being done. This will change as the area grows, but doesn't help me now. SO we were there in Panama, getting nothing done but hemorrhaging money. We were getting frustrated and felt like we would have been better off buying a business as opposed to land. And about a month ago we just agreed that we need to come back to the US and make more money. And we needed to do it while we still had enough cash to get reestablished. So that night we bought tickets for about three weeks ago. And like that we are back in the states. Now don't feel bad for me. I had three job offers before I landed. In the end my wife and I agreed to come back to running the Log Home business but that is another story. This also the reason I haven't been updating as I have been quite busy fixing the mess here at the business and honestly my pride is still a little stung. But as I said from the beginning I always had the ability to bail and I am not one to carry down a path to utter ruin when I can see the writing on the wall. SO what is the current state of things? Well we have our dock in. the property is cleaned up and access has been cut to the home sight. this will be maintained while we are gone. We can get our residency here from the States now that we have accounts established in Panama. Here in the US? We have basically nothing. We have been buying some furniture a piece or two at a time. I had my preps stored safely, so no worries there. Really it is kind of exciting. we cleaned out 14 years of junk and now are much wiser about what we need and want. So I have some more thoughts to share on the good and bad and what we might do now but you guys have been along with me on this journey so I will let you who are interested ask me what you will and we will lay it all out. Thanks for the honesty Canoeguy. At the end of the day, you did what your heart told you to do and you had the common sense to know when to pull the plug. In my book thats much better than a)not having the guts to go for your dream b)being too stupid/too proud to know when to quit. You did well. Quoted:
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Thanks for the Update. Brings up an important point. Money, being the most important survival prep there is. We don't discuss it much. Perhaps because it's not as interesting as other subjects ( or, because it's so difficult to hoard). It's always good to remind ourselves of the importance of liquidity; be it cash, PM's, Stocks, or whatever. How much total would you have needed to live there without any worries? Agreed, or in lieu of money something of real value to trade. And actually they did do some trading down there. I can think of one particular item that I saw traded several times...Anyone have any guesses as to what it was? But to answer your question, you could live cheaply if you were 100% established and I you did not use your boat a lot. But if you want to live close to a lifestyle that an American has with dinner out with friends, and moving around the islands to sightsee or fish and dive you probably need $1500-$2000 a month possibly as little as $1200 which is what is the required couple income for a pensionado visa. However in addition to this you are going to need a decent lump of cash to deal with unexpected and expensive items such as suddenly needing another boat engine or your solar batteries crapping out. If I had a dollar for every time... "but, but.. you can live like a king in South America on 500 usd a month" No, you cant! At the same standard of living, its cheaper to live in USA, even Europe than Latin America and the same goes for any other 3rd world country. The thing about 3rd world countries is that the standards are much lower all around. A car? A house that isnt falling appart? Living somewhere where you have power, water, secrutiy? acceptable schools for kids? Most of those things are luxuries for which you pay dearly in 3rd world countries. FerFAL |
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Posted: 6/2/2015 4:59:59 PM EDT
[#10]
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I can think of one particular item that I saw traded several times...Anyone have any guesses as to what it was? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thanks for the Update. Brings up an important point. Money, being the most important survival prep there is. We don't discuss it much. Perhaps because it's not as interesting as other subjects ( or, because it's so difficult to hoard). It's always good to remind ourselves of the importance of liquidity; be it cash, PM's, Stocks, or whatever. How much total would you have needed to live there without any worries? I can think of one particular item that I saw traded several times...Anyone have any guesses as to what it was? How close am I? 
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Posted: 6/2/2015 5:06:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Thanks for the Update. Brings up an important point. Money, being the most important survival prep there is. We don't discuss it much. Perhaps because it's not as interesting as other subjects ( or, because it's so difficult to hoard). It's always good to remind ourselves of the importance of liquidity; be it cash, PM's, Stocks, or whatever. How much total would you have needed to live there without any worries? I can think of one particular item that I saw traded several times...Anyone have any guesses as to what it was? How close am I? http://media.oregonlive.com/health_impact/photo/11599111-large.jpg If he's not correct...I was thinking maybe tobacco or alcohol. |
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Posted: 6/2/2015 6:55:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Thanks for the Update. Brings up an important point. Money, being the most important survival prep there is. We don't discuss it much. Perhaps because it's not as interesting as other subjects ( or, because it's so difficult to hoard). It's always good to remind ourselves of the importance of liquidity; be it cash, PM's, Stocks, or whatever. How much total would you have needed to live there without any worries? I can think of one particular item that I saw traded several times...Anyone have any guesses as to what it was? How close am I? http://media.oregonlive.com/health_impact/photo/11599111-large.jpg Not at all. Food is not in short supply and not seemingly a high priority... |
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Posted: 6/2/2015 6:56:08 PM EDT
[#13]
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If he's not correct...I was thinking maybe tobacco or alcohol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thanks for the Update. Brings up an important point. Money, being the most important survival prep there is. We don't discuss it much. Perhaps because it's not as interesting as other subjects ( or, because it's so difficult to hoard). It's always good to remind ourselves of the importance of liquidity; be it cash, PM's, Stocks, or whatever. How much total would you have needed to live there without any worries? I can think of one particular item that I saw traded several times...Anyone have any guesses as to what it was? How close am I? http://media.oregonlive.com/health_impact/photo/11599111-large.jpg If he's not correct...I was thinking maybe tobacco or alcohol. Ding, ding, ding.... Survey says booze! |
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Posted: 6/2/2015 8:09:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Dang, I was looking forward to having a place to stay in Bocas!!
I'm glad you went for it. I love the country and the people. (and the food, and the jungle, and the booze, and the beer, and the weather, and the sea) |
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Posted: 6/2/2015 9:52:27 PM EDT
[#15]
A good friend moved to panama with a mix of SHTF and cost of living and it lasted about 3 years.
He told me he would rather die in the US than survive in south america. Glad your back and OK OP. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 3:36:55 AM EDT
[#16]
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A good friend moved to panama with a mix of SHTF and cost of living and it lasted about 3 years. He told me he would rather die in the US than survive in south america. Glad your back and OK OP. That's a nice way of putting it. Why deal with all the crap that it involves living in a place where (yes, beautiful , exotic nature, interesting people, etc) everything is such a pain in the ass? Bureaucracy that stops being funny fast, same thing for crime, pretty much getting anything done, things that take minutes on the phone in a serious country takes months of paperwork and probably thousands of dollars as well. You soon see that you much rather go there and visit, maybe for weeks or months at a time, but not live there if you dont have to. FerFAL |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 7:56:57 AM EDT
[#17]
The best way to do it to real estate and property...
I have friends who have property in Panama and they rent it out using AirBnB and bookings. Nothing else. They live in Panama. I did the same thing for Greece and Hungary but bookings is fucked up and screwy as I can't manage it myself and they have a property management place. They make about 100 a day with my condo and I get about 600 a month from it. Not good when I can do that but the problem is that dealing with taxes and other setups in Hungary. Panama not so much. My advice for you... look for real estate property.. and manage it and you will have income for life. I'm 42. medically retired army so I have a small pension but most of my income is rental from Greece and Hungary. and I live in Oregon during the winter so I can work and stay sane as a substitute teacher. Another friend does it in Costa Rica and it is just a small condo...and he loves it....he lives in another condo. Got both condos for about 60k. https://www.airbnb.com/s/Costa-Rica?checkin=06%2F17%2F2015&checkout=06%2F20%2F2015&guests=2&ss_id=h6xhauj5 look at this as an example. Also the clients for rentals on day to day are not stupid and simple people...they can take care of stuff. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 1:42:56 PM EDT
[#18]
We moved to a remote location in the Northern Rockies years ago, primarily for health reasons not SHTF stuff. We moved there because I had always dreamed of living in the mountains hunting, fishing, etc . Loved it and didn't have any money problems, mainly because my wife had a good paying job and transferred there (LOL!). Bottom line = at a relatively young age I lived my dream and never regretted the money I could have made in the big city but didn't because I moved to the mountains. My experienced advice is to live your dream, but make damn sure you have your finances taken care of first because even in the USA good jobs are hard to find in rural areas and living expenses are pretty much the same as in the city. I also agree with others that real estate investing is a good way to make money, even in rural areas, without having to work 8 hour days.
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Posted: 6/3/2015 2:08:44 PM EDT
[#19]
Our retirement home now days is probably the best place in the USA for retirees and/or drop-outs (South Texas). Lots of low cost homes and RV parks, good jobs, all the big city stores, EZ gun laws, warm winters/hot summers, first class medical care, nice Latino people, pristine ocean beaches and Mexico is only a short drive away if you want to experience life in a dangerous 3rd world border town with dirt roads, criminals and armed military everywhere.
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Posted: 6/3/2015 4:10:42 PM EDT
[#20]
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Not at all. Food is not in short supply and not seemingly a high priority... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thanks for the Update. Brings up an important point. Money, being the most important survival prep there is. We don't discuss it much. Perhaps because it's not as interesting as other subjects ( or, because it's so difficult to hoard). It's always good to remind ourselves of the importance of liquidity; be it cash, PM's, Stocks, or whatever. How much total would you have needed to live there without any worries? I can think of one particular item that I saw traded several times...Anyone have any guesses as to what it was? How close am I? http://media.oregonlive.com/health_impact/photo/11599111-large.jpg Not at all. Food is not in short supply and not seemingly a high priority... I was referring to the pounds and pounds of weed rather than the food but yeah. Booze? Really? |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 9:11:44 PM EDT
[#21]
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I was referring to the pounds and pounds of weed rather than the food but yeah. Booze? Really? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thanks for the Update. Brings up an important point. Money, being the most important survival prep there is. We don't discuss it much. Perhaps because it's not as interesting as other subjects ( or, because it's so difficult to hoard). It's always good to remind ourselves of the importance of liquidity; be it cash, PM's, Stocks, or whatever. How much total would you have needed to live there without any worries? I can think of one particular item that I saw traded several times...Anyone have any guesses as to what it was? How close am I? http://media.oregonlive.com/health_impact/photo/11599111-large.jpg Not at all. Food is not in short supply and not seemingly a high priority... I was referring to the pounds and pounds of weed rather than the food but yeah. Booze? Really? Hah! I only saw the mountain house boxes...now I see the weed. There is plenty of that but I stayed away from those folks. Booze is king man. Everyone drinks hard. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 9:45:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Thank you for sharing your ups and downs. I've been there myself and realized living a less stressful lifestyle can often outweigh adventure.
It will all come together for you. Sometimes it takes just learning that putting it all on the line and surviving to realize where you really want to be. |
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Posted: 6/4/2015 12:19:07 PM EDT
[#23]
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OK so here is the big update... We are back in the US. There I said it. It is kind of sore to say it as I feel a little defeated... Sorry it didn' work out like you wanted, but... There was a guy that tried twice to launch a candy company making toffee. Like I said, he failed twice. He kept at it though, and went in different direction. His name was Hershey. |
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Posted: 6/10/2015 1:17:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Appreciate your sharing your story, with the good and the bad.........
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Posted: 6/10/2015 2:58:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Thanks again for the updates .
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Posted: 6/28/2015 7:46:04 PM EDT
[#26]
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Booze is king man. Everyone drinks hard. Soooo... it's just like florida. 
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Posted: 6/30/2015 3:22:31 AM EDT
[#27]
So if booze was a highly traded item, were people making their own to trade, or were liquor stores so far away that it wasn't convenient to purchase?
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Posted: 6/30/2015 6:13:00 AM EDT
[#28]
Thanks for sharing your adventure. I have the feeling you will conquer the obstacles and find the happiness you seek. In fact, despite your frustrations, it sounds like you are happier than a lot of people who wouldn't have what it takes to do what you've done - and are doing.
You're a lucky man to have a wife who is at your side the way yours is. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 11:07:41 AM EDT
[#29]
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So if booze was a highly traded item, were people making their own to trade, or were liquor stores so far away that it wasn't convenient to purchase? Liquor is for sale in every convenience/grocery store. However a bottle cost more than a days wages, almost two days wages for the Indians. There is a serious drinking issue there, but strangely no drunks during the day or seemingly none straggling down the street. But If you want to befriend someone then beer or booze is a sure way to do so. I believe that when things tighten here to the point that liquor becomes a real luxury item either because of lack of income or inflation that it will be a potential windfall to have some put up. I always thought this would be the case in the back of my mind, but it has been greatly reinforced with what I witnessed. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 11:09:04 AM EDT
[#30]
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You're a lucky man to have a wife who is at your side the way yours is. I am lucky to have her. But make no mistake she was probably a little more of the driving force behind this crazy ride. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 12:27:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Booze is expensive? How much does it cost in USD for rum? Or whatever they drink the most of down there?
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Posted: 6/30/2015 12:37:51 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Booze is expensive? How much does it cost in USD for rum? Or whatever they drink the most of down there? Not expensive for American wages. I don't buy much liquor but it seems like it may be a slight bit more than here. Obviously there are different price points. But when you make $12 a day, a twenty dollar bottle is serious business. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 1:54:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Wow! You and your wife have a lot of guts to try that. Y'all are indeed the "man in the arena".
I hope your future is happy and comfortable. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 9:42:29 PM EDT
[#34]
Tag for home reading *from the beginning. lol
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Posted: 7/1/2015 12:37:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not expensive for American wages. I don't buy much liquor but it seems like it may be a slight bit more than here. Obviously there are different price points. But when you make $12 a day, a twenty dollar bottle is serious business. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Booze is expensive? How much does it cost in USD for rum? Or whatever they drink the most of down there? Not expensive for American wages. I don't buy much liquor but it seems like it may be a slight bit more than here. Obviously there are different price points. But when you make $12 a day, a twenty dollar bottle is serious business. And Obama thinks wages are low here! LOL!!!! 
In Texas you can buy 1.75L of Vodka for about $11 on sale (sales every weekend) and 1.75L of Rum for $12. In Mexico it is even less expensive. Are you saying it costs more than that down there? |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 4:06:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Canoeguy I have a couple questions for you about your experience.
First, during your time living there, did you ever feel there was a stigma? You being (I assume white?) an American trying to find work in Panama, spanish perhaps distinguishable as not being native, did you feel that people didn't want to work with you or give you work because you were a foreigner? Second, if you had some sort of sustainable income stream, do you think you would have stayed longer? I know for instance its easier when people have a regular monthly check coming in, social security being one example. And of course countries like Panama and Belize want to cash in on this. Third, are you able to share about how much your monthly expenses were? Were these minimalist expenses, as in bare necessities just to survive, or was it trying to keep a bit of your former standard of living? Fourth, do you think you'd have had better success if you moved to another first-world equivalent country, say any major European country? Fifth, what was your banking situation like? Did you have a local bank account down there? Any problems opening an account, in light of FATCA and such? Have you made proper accounting of taxes you owe here in the U.S. yet? What will that be like for you? |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 4:22:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And Obama thinks wages are low here! LOL!!!!
In Texas you can buy 1.75L of Vodka for about $11 on sale (sales every weekend) and 1.75L of Rum for $12. In Mexico it is even less expensive. Are you saying it costs more than that down there? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Booze is expensive? How much does it cost in USD for rum? Or whatever they drink the most of down there? Not expensive for American wages. I don't buy much liquor but it seems like it may be a slight bit more than here. Obviously there are different price points. But when you make $12 a day, a twenty dollar bottle is serious business. And Obama thinks wages are low here! LOL!!!!
In Texas you can buy 1.75L of Vodka for about $11 on sale (sales every weekend) and 1.75L of Rum for $12. In Mexico it is even less expensive. Are you saying it costs more than that down there? No. You can buy cheap stuff too. But the only bottle of rum I bought there was not cheap crap so I paid about $40. Wine was maybe $8-$8.50 for barefoot or comparable. The beer is about $1 a bottle, cheaper in bulk.. Belgium Import is more of course. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 4:38:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Canoeguy I have a couple questions for you about your experience. First, during your time living there, did you ever feel there was a stigma? You being (I assume white?) an American trying to find work in Panama, spanish perhaps distinguishable as not being native, did you feel that people didn't want to work with you or give you work because you were a foreigner? Well, yes frankly. My not finding a job was a detriment. However, If I had the funds to start a business right away I feel like I could have done quite well. There is a lot of room for growth and every decently run American business is killing it there. Mainly they see a Gringo as a cash cow. But just like here you find there are different classes of people who treat you differently. Only one instance did I have someone actually be rude to me because I was white, usually they are polite or more often indifferent. Second, if you had some sort of sustainable income stream, do you think you would have stayed longer? I know for instance its easier when people have a regular monthly check coming in, social security being one example. And of course countries like Panama and Belize want to cash in on this. I would still be there and loving it. Third, are you able to share about how much your monthly expenses were? Were these minimalist expenses, as in bare necessities just to survive, or was it trying to keep a bit of your former standard of living? Well, I lived on an island which necessitated a boat. That boat is a huge expense. Panama requires a minimum of $1k a month for an individual and $1200 for a couple to get a pensionado visa. Assuming you had a home and vehicle and residency taken care of and you lived relatively simply this would be very doable. Fourth, do you think you'd have had better success if you moved to another first-world equivalent country, say any major European country? Absolutely not. Europe is a nightmare of socialism and liberalism. And I will be honest, you have a huge advantage of education over most of Latin America this is an advantage. Latin America still sees America as something to aspire to, Europeans do nothing but talk trash about America when I ran into them, which was often. Yes those are generalizations, I don't care to be PC about it. Fifth, what was your banking situation like? Did you have a local bank account down there? Any problems opening an account, in light of FATCA and such? Have you made proper accounting of taxes you owe here in the U.S. yet? What will that be like for you? I have a bank account there. It required two forms of ID and a letter from my lawyer. No problem, except now they spam me with crap about their services. I have to file a tax form for my foreign Corporation, but as I make no money, it is not a problem. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 7:22:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Thanks for giving it a go. You have not failed though.
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Posted: 7/1/2015 8:32:12 PM EDT
[#40]
A couple more questions....
Do you think you'll give this another try in the future? Why or why not? If so, what country? Which countries are on your short list to want to ever try this? If you stayed in Panama long enough and things worked out for you long term, do you think you'd eventually renounce US citizenship? Anything in particular about the culture down there that took a while to adjust to? |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 8:48:15 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A couple more questions.... Do you think you'll give this another try in the future? Why or why not? If so, what country? Well we aren't through yet. We still have property and bank accounts and solid ties there. I never intended this as a bug out situation and we kept our ability to return here, albeit I took a kick in the teeth with the loss of some personal items we collected through the years and sold off. Other countries? I am not sure. Part of it for me was the climate and a language we can learn or at least stumble through. Which countries are on your short list to want to ever try this? Honestly, I am not sure. If it were just me I might be a bit more reckless with locale. But with the wife, I am only willing to push it so far. Not that she isn't more than capable. If you stayed in Panama long enough and things worked out for you long term, do you think you'd eventually renounce US citizenship? Never, not for love of life or limb. And I have said from the beginning if this country gets to the point that it needs me to be here, than here I shall return. Anything in particular about the culture down there that took a while to adjust to? |
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Posted: 7/2/2015 4:36:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Liquor is for sale in every convenience/grocery store. However a bottle cost more than a days wages, almost two days wages for the Indians. There is a serious drinking issue there, but strangely no drunks during the day or seemingly none straggling down the street. But If you want to befriend someone then beer or booze is a sure way to do so. I believe that when things tighten here to the point that liquor becomes a real luxury item either because of lack of income or inflation that it will be a potential windfall to have some put up. I always thought this would be the case in the back of my mind, but it has been greatly reinforced with what I witnessed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So if booze was a highly traded item, were people making their own to trade, or were liquor stores so far away that it wasn't convenient to purchase? Liquor is for sale in every convenience/grocery store. However a bottle cost more than a days wages, almost two days wages for the Indians. There is a serious drinking issue there, but strangely no drunks during the day or seemingly none straggling down the street. But If you want to befriend someone then beer or booze is a sure way to do so. I believe that when things tighten here to the point that liquor becomes a real luxury item either because of lack of income or inflation that it will be a potential windfall to have some put up. I always thought this would be the case in the back of my mind, but it has been greatly reinforced with what I witnessed.  Sorry to hear it didn't go as planned, but you have the right attitude. And you were very wise to pull when you did. Before you crashed Thus, the most appropriate AR meme for you is…..  |
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Posted: 7/2/2015 9:02:33 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK so here is the big update... We are back in the US. There I said it. It is kind of sore to say it as I feel a little defeated. And in only four months. So here is what happened, and I told you guys I would always be upfront so as to give anyone thinking about this a real look as to what it is like... I simply could not catch a break when it came to work. And any job at all would have been fine. I was confident that being a dive instructor would help me obtain a job at a shop. But I didn't count on the Panama factor. Basically it is like this, dive shops are governed by a body of organizations. these folks, like PADI, give guidelines on how a shop must be run as far as safety, teaching, and such or else they will pull their name from their organization. What I failed to account for is that Bocas is far enough off the path that they just don't care. And I saw some crazy practices being done. This will change as the area grows, but doesn't help me now. SO we were there in Panama, getting nothing done but hemorrhaging money. We were getting frustrated and felt like we would have been better off buying a business as opposed to land. And about a month ago we just agreed that we need to come back to the US and make more money. And we needed to do it while we still had enough cash to get reestablished. So that night we bought tickets for about three weeks ago. And like that we are back in the states. Now don't feel bad for me. I had three job offers before I landed. In the end my wife and I agreed to come back to running the Log Home business but that is another story. This also the reason I haven't been updating as I have been quite busy fixing the mess here at the business and honestly my pride is still a little stung. But as I said from the beginning I always had the ability to bail and I am not one to carry down a path to utter ruin when I can see the writing on the wall. SO what is the current state of things? Well we have our dock in. the property is cleaned up and access has been cut to the home sight. this will be maintained while we are gone. We can get our residency here from the States now that we have accounts established in Panama. Here in the US? We have basically nothing. We have been buying some furniture a piece or two at a time. I had my preps stored safely, so no worries there. Really it is kind of exciting. we cleaned out 14 years of junk and now are much wiser about what we need and want. So I have some more thoughts to share on the good and bad and what we might do now but you guys have been along with me on this journey so I will let you who are interested ask me what you will and we will lay it all out. Dreams, bro, they don't come easy or cheap. Godspeed. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 7:56:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Booze, really cheap there, especially the local stuff. Ron Cortez, Ron Abuelo, Seco, etc.
Same for beer. .35 a can for Cerveza Panama. The other thing that is very prevalent there is Latin Lettuce. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 8:30:07 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Booze, really cheap there, especially the local stuff. Ron Cortez, Ron Abuelo, Seco, etc. Same for beer. .35 a can for Cerveza Panama. The other thing that is very prevalent there is Latin Lettuce. Been a little while since you have been there? |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 8:28:29 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Been a little while since you have been there? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Booze, really cheap there, especially the local stuff. Ron Cortez, Ron Abuelo, Seco, etc. Same for beer. .35 a can for Cerveza Panama. The other thing that is very prevalent there is Latin Lettuce. Been a little while since you have been there? 2008. Will be back next year. Not sure, but there may be higher prices in Bocas town. I have several friends there and will get a price check. |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 8:37:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
2008. Will be back next year. Not sure, but there may be higher prices in Bocas town. I have several friends there and will get a price check. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Booze, really cheap there, especially the local stuff. Ron Cortez, Ron Abuelo, Seco, etc. Same for beer. .35 a can for Cerveza Panama. The other thing that is very prevalent there is Latin Lettuce. Been a little while since you have been there? 2008. Will be back next year. Not sure, but there may be higher prices in Bocas town. I have several friends there and will get a price check. Bocas is higher for sure. But beer has gone up some. Same for liquor. Still cheaper than water though 
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