Inspired by the Belize thread I thought I would start my own as there is always talk of moving out of the country from a survival perspective. So here is your chance to ask questions or just follow along.

Background and motivation: My wife and I love nature and bird watching, diving, surfing...anything outdoors. We started traveling to Costa Rica, Caribbean Islands and Panama about 10 years ago. From the first trip we wanted a second home but could not afford it.

Though I have a small class 3 firearms and emergency preparedness business my main bread and butter was running a log home company...then the economy went to shit and the housing market died. that in conjunction with some family issues pushed me out of that about a year ago. SO it was a good time to do something awesome.

But we initially wanted to open a pub. Excellent credit scores(790's) and equity was not enough to secure a loan. We probably had enough to do it but would allow no room for error. Half of the initial costs would be fee's and taxes. And the buildings we were looking at would have to be brought to ridiculous codes to allow us to operate. and scariest of all would be if we were in an old building and anything were wrong we would be sunk.

So essentially we wanted to start a business, pay taxes and create 5-6 jobs right away. But due to bullshit codes, licenses, and fees we couldn't do it.

Then while in Panama I thought... maybe we are doing this backwards. And then I seriously started considering things from a preppers perspective.

Pluses: The people are less likely to have issues when there is a failure of the national government. Year round growing season. Tried and true off grid living. Most people farm and adapt to hardship. They want you to open businesses.

Minuses: Language, I am working on that. Sanitation issues in towns and cities, my property is on an Island and isolated. Some corruption in police and government...bribes, ect.
Things are not always as convenient as they are in America, but they have everything you need.

Where I am at: We are working with the Lawyer and setting up a Panamanian corporation and will close on our 10 acres in 45 days or so. Then I will have to decide where to go from there. I do not have a job lined p. We will build a few rentals and I will do some work with my boat. we may open a small restaurant.


So there it is. I thought this would let people ask questions of someone who is actually doing it and hear it from a serious preppers perspective. so ask away and I will answer in honesty...

So language is one of your obstacles ? The language in Panama is Spanish, correct ? What are you doing, Rosetta Stone ?

Are you going to move there full time, or keep it as a back up/bug out location?

How's the situation in Panama with firearms, are residents allowed to transfer them, do you have to be a citizen to have a firearm ?

Language: Rosetta stone is very good. I also have flash cards, Cds and I read any spanish I find lying around that I can decipher the context of. Everytime I go and spend a week or ten days I improve. On the caribbean, where I am moving english is fairly common.

I intent to move full time. with a cache of supplies at a local here in the states as well.

Firearms: You can transfer some. heirlooms and ect. However my reading shows that often times they don't show back up. Most expats have firearms and carrying is allowed. Glock is the pistol of choice. I can neither confirm nor deny that many expats have unregistered firearms.

Local towns on the street level tend to not rely on the government as the government doesn't do a very good job at suppling any assistance anyway.

Many foods are grown locally and there is much bartering. I imagine the situation to be more like the US in the 1900's. Many of the people are subsistence farmers. There are many backyard repair shops out of necessity. Many cabs and busses are private. Many people live without power and many are off grid.

So there is some national service but away from Panama city it dwindles.

It's all good until the banana republic next door invades and presses you into military service.

My property is fully rain forest. Ocean front on a 30 ft bluff. The back ends into a pretty mean mangrove swamp and the sides are bordering American owned jungle. I absolutely have the high ground and it is very defensible. The Jungle is the real deal. You can't maneuver without a machete and much noise.

Our front yard is a coral reef.

We are 15- 20 minutes boat ride from the main land and a 15-20 minute boat ride to Bocas town.

My island is sparsely populated but my "neighbors" include a doctor and a Veterinarian.

All houses on the island are completely off grid.

I paid $50,000 which is a steal. The American owner has cancer and is moving to the mainland.

That could be interesting. But Costa Rica (10 Miles from the border)isn't exactly the invasion type. Plus they might appreciate my training and make me an officer.

In all seriousness though...the importance of the Panama canal can't be overstated. Panama will be defended.

The Canal Zone will be defended, not the entire country.

What are the gun laws like.

Belize is probably more at risk of that being next to Guatemala and Honduras. Of course Columbia is a de-facto narco state, but there is at least some stability.  Sounds like a nice property.

You are right about the canal zone be the focus of defense. However, I am way north near the Costa Rican border. So essentially there is no strategic reason to even go there. Just a blip on the map. So I can't fathom a situation where Panama would be invaded and honestly if it is invaded the most likely invasion would be the US taking back territory if we ever felt we needed to protect our interest in the region...and if we were able to get our balls back out of Obamas purse.

Spent many moons in Panama, no need to go back.  It's just as backwards and just as corrupt as all the other latin countries.

Good luck.

Good luck and I hope you will have internet service to keep us up to date on how everything is going.  What are your options for phone?  Satellite only?

Panama is great for setting up shady corporations nad having cheap cosmetic surgery done , but other than that I dont see why an American would want to go there.
Corruption and crime are on par with the rest of LatinAmerica, they will not give a damn about you and your buisness. Corruption alone can sink a startup in Latin America.
Gun laws arent that good, you sure wont get to carry concealed.
Maybe the worst problem I see is getting used to 3rd world lifestyle. Its one thing to go there on holydays, its anotherto live there. Things look FAR lesscahrming when you spend a year in these places. Another huge obstacleyou have is language. Not being fluent in the language of thecountryyou moved to is a big disadvantage. You're already a gringo over there, you'll never be allowed to forget that and always be consdiered another American with a fat wallet to be taken advatnage of.
Finally, it doesnt sound as if you're rich or anything like that and you can burn through money in Latin America way faster that you'd think. Whatever number you have in mind before moving, add 25%, and make that 40 or 50% if you're moving to a 3rd wolrd country. There's not just unexpected fees and taxes oin everything, the cost of things you took for granted in USA will surprsie you.
Anyway, I wouldnt recommend anyonemoving to Panama but good luck!
FerFAL

How is Argentina?  Have been looking at property there.  Somewhere rural.

I appreciate your input. It is good to hear all opinions. Have you spent much time in Panama outside of the city? because indeed the city is a hell hole.

However most expats I have met do carry concealed. And being a foriegner, that is a negative, similar to someone from S.A. living in Europe. The language is also a barrier that must be overcome but is cenrtainly doable. On the caost so many speak english I have to make myself speak spanish to help improve.

But you are right on many levels of the bad. Many folks are not cut out for it. But all of the long term americans I speak to love it. Remember that my first love is the nature, I am weighing that out with the downsides.

I am not just blindly running in. I have spent many, many hours talking to many expats who have lived there for years.

While I would not be doing what you are planning, nevertheless, I find it fascinating and look forward to you posting more about your experiences....especially your off grid house build.  

Good luck!!

F that man.  But good luck.  I'll subscribe to see how it goes.  It'll have to get pretty damn bad here before I leave the country.

My parents moved down there full time about 5 years ago.  They love it.  A medical scare last year has them thinking about spending a part of the year in the states though.

Keep updating this  thread as I'm very interested to hear about your experience.

Lived there for 2 years courtesy of Uncle Sam.

Would love to have a place there some day, but not sure about living there full time.

Simply put...no. I am business savy and have never had a damn thing given to me. I have worked since I was sixteen and am now thirty-seven.

I have a few ideas for income while there and talking to the expats there the common thought is there is plenty of room for growth.

I have moved all my life for jobs. Now I am going to pick where I want to live and make it work.

I am fairly talented at business and the one thing I can count on is my own abilities and ambition.

Well said, and me too.



 

OK my fist actual update.

Tomorrow morning I am wiring my lawyer $1200 for the property transfer and $1300 for setting up a Panamanian corporation. This is the entirety of my legal fees.

An additional problem that must be overcome is the necessity of a survey and I have to have a dock built. I am going to guess $1200 for the survey and $5000 for the dock. However having both of these done increases the property value more than they cost. We will see how close my guesses are when I get the quotes.

That is one thing I can say for Panamanians, they mark property well and surveys require concrete raised markers. Most will go further and install fences.

How close are you to any whitewater there?  Might be a good way to get some tourism business.

Language barrier?  It's actually possible to get around Panama by speaking only English, unlike, say, Miami....

i am in B.A. now.  Inflation is 25% a year right now.  the govt is fucked up but not like venezuela yet, everyone is hoarding dollars

Which is a very poor decision.



http://distrify.com/films/2464





 

Thanks for the advice on the language. I try to watch the news in Spanish mainly because they speak slower and more clearly.Bocas del Toro has two language schools and I may spend a week in one.

White water is only 1.5-2 hours away.

one plan is to have an adventure hostel. Whitewater, zip lines, and surfing. As well as snorkeling, stand up paddling and kayaking right off the dock. I would love to be able to help people have a blast and do so as reasonably priced as possible.

Like someone else posted in here. You'll get better at your Spanish when your subjected to it more. Watch TV in Spanish, try to make friends with someone who speaks it and only communicate with him or her in Spanish.

You'll know you are really getting the hang of Spanish when you start dreaming in it.

 










 

Sounds interesting.  

I still believe that it would be hard to beat the semi-rural USA for a place to live.  Due to access for jobs (for most of us anyway), availability of resources, firearms and ammo access, etc.   There are still a whole lot of very skilled laborers in the US, I know this is getting less and less, but for having to recover from an economic collapse, I'm not sure there is a better place.

Would love to see your updates and pics when you build.   Best wishes with your plans.

 

Ditto, to heck with the Cucaracha circuit, where corruption is endemic.  My family had a good time while we were stationed there (like you, can't beat it for the outdoors lifestyle) but the Land Of The Big PX was always available.  As for the language, Panamanian Spanish is tough.  I had no trouble in Colombia where they speak more of a pure Castilian Spanish, but in Panama it is rougher and I played hell keeping up.  The Panamanian people (outside the cities) were generally nice and easy to get along with.  The Zonies were good folks but were pretty strange.  They loved the USA but really didn't know much more about being an American than a tourist would.  Wome were third generation and had never been to the States except to visit.  Not sure how many of them stayed after the Canal was handed over.  Last thing, I would worry about the Chinese influence.  They were buying up the Canal Zone as we left and I understand they pretty much own it now.

All that said, I admire anyone that is willing to hang it out there and follow their dreams.  Good luck (and if you don't fish, you need to get with a local guide to take you out to Lake Gatun for peacock bass!  Not much for size but outstanding for eating).

The Chinese are currently building a new canal.

Sounds exciting and scary at the same time.  All parties going should be fluent in Spanish.
I've spent time in Panama on two separate times both times way up the Northwest side from the canal.  This was for uncle sugars feel good operations after blowing the place up.  Panamanian concrete is nothing like what is in the states.  I swear they use saltwater to make it. Concrete blocks would just turn to dust going down their "normal roads".  After numerous truck delivery attempts we had to have our concrete blocks delivered by Chinook.
From my experiences in Hondouras, Belieze, and Panama, one thing seems consistent, prices for things go up each day when a gringo is around.
Islanding in both Panama and Honduras was better experiences than mainlanding but that was many years ago.  Island life just always seems to be better.

OP Update when you can I'm interested in hearing how the area is doing.

Added: some skills that could come in very handy are small engine mechanic (generator), basic auto mechanic (buy a HiLux and know how to repair it), amateur radio.  I saw an expat on an Island in Honduras keeping in touch with his family stateside via Ham.  It meant the world to him not needing to rely on landlines.

Make sure you have volcano preps, the one close by tends to go off now and then.

Not sure I'd pick Panama, then again, all i ever saw as the canal zone with uncle sam.    Seafood was pretty good, a little different than I'm used to.   OMG, last month I had a weird craving for one of those grilled sammiches from the 24 horas store!  the grilled bread with the chicken or beef inside.  Half the time the beef was tougher than shoe leather and was nearly inedible.    

Just in the short time I was there I'd hear lots of gunshots just off my post in the non US properties/living areas.   I do remember the restaurants all had guys with shotguns standing guard in and around the places to prevent robberies and worse.   This was in the early 90's.

How the heck do you prep for a volcanic eruption aside from having a fast car or motorcycle to de-ass the immediate area?

Well I will have a boat and a motorcycle. Let's hope for the best.

Helicopter!

Well you wouldn't need a cooking stove,  Marshmallows and chickens to roast!

Buddy of mine announced a few months back he was going the exact same thing.  His move date is Dec 12th of this year as he just sold all his property in S. Texas.  Right now trying to figure out how to dispose of his rather extensive firearms collection.

Good luck on the move.

I am paying for a good portion of this by selling my collection. I about cried myself to sleep last night. It hurts to let some of it go. However I am also a bit shocked and aggravated by how materialistic I had become. In a way it feels good to let go and get my mind in the right place.

I also have lots of stuff from the business and prep side which I have to sell. It is frustrating but I will make preps a priority once there. And going off grid is a big step up for me on that aspect.

Give him my email?

Seriously, I'm envious of you OP - not for moving to Panama, but for having the balls to try it.  I'm entirely too risk averse to try something this gutsy - good luck!