First off, I have no idea if this is the place I need to post this or not. Mods feel free to move to the appropriate place if it needs to be.

Ok, I'm starting to research 2 1/2 ton and 5 ton trucks for everyday usage/BOV. I'm a farmer, so I have lots of uses for one, but I want to make the best choice for a SHTF scenario.

What are the pros and cons of each? What should I look for when inspecting one? Any specific problems I should look for? How hard is it to find parts for them? What's the best place to look for one?

I have no problem with maintenance/upgrades/repairs on a large truck, as I've worked on and maintained semi trucks my whole life, but I don't want a project.

Thanks for the help!

5 tons require a CDL. They have air brakes.

2.5 tons have air over hydraulic and do not require a CDL.



Neither are that great for SHTF.  They only get 6 MPG at best and they stick out like a sore thumb.



The only thing that might be great is the Multi-fuel engines will burn all sorts of stuff.
I like thaem and will be getting one someday, but for FUN, not SHTF.  YMMV.





check out steel soldiers . com

First of I should say:  I've never owned nor operated either a 2.5 or a 5-ton Army truck.

I do have a UNIMOG 406, which is a 6.5-Ton truck.
I'd much rather have it than a U-404 (the 2.5-Ton variety UNIMOG)

The extra power has been very helpful when pulling heavy stuff around on the farm.

Get a Deuce and Bob it.

I've driven both 2.5 and 5 tons in the Army. You can get the newer M35A3s out there with the CTIS and Auto transmissions, but nothing says "FUCK YOU, EPA" like manhandling the old A2s with the stick-shift.

I live in an area that I sometimes have to deal with flooding. Not really planning on a longterm SHTF for one of these trucks, just something like a flood and/or earthquake, as I live right on top of the New Madrid fault.

Without a forging kit, i think max depth is like 30 inches, with one, like 5 feet.  Also, the 2.5 ton has a GVWR of less than 26,001 Pounds so thats another plus for it and why it does not require a CDL.



How much do you want to spend?  There are a ton of dudes on here that love these things and you should have one for your farm, but you will be wrenching on it. Good thing parts are easy to get.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/ICKLGYs8CE8[/youtube]

Bring a long snorkel for the truck and a SCUBA rig.

jim

tried to edit, but can't get youtube to work...

be prepared to give er hell if you get into a deep ass mudhole.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_fdU31KvTM



listen to her whistlin'

Why just get one?

I've got the M109A4 for the bug out

1999, late 5500 s/n with 793 miles and 238 hrs on the clock





And the 5 ton (M923A2) for taking the kids to get ice cream


This pic is from the GL yard before pick up.
1991 BMY with 23 miles since 6/11 Red River Army Depot reset at 17K miles.

I've found an M925A1 within a few hrs of me, & it looks to be in great shape. Comes with an M105A2 trailer too. It has an NHC-250 Cummins in it. Anybody know anything about these engines?

The 2.5 tons are getting harder to find and are priced accordingly.  I got mine about 2.5 years ago and managed a decent deal.  There are a whole bunch of 5 tons being released now, the prices are pretty decent too.

The 5 tons burn only diesel, they are not multifuel.  And 95% of the 5 tons being released are the 900 series with auto transmission.  

Other than the things mentioned above and the weight rating, not a whole lot of difference.  Although the Deuce gets an average of 8-10mpg, the 5 ton about half that.

I'd love to have a 5 ton, for the size and cool factor alone, but it's enough with the Deuce right now.  And I am hoping to get into filtering WMO big time to cut down on my fuel costs.

LC

Only thing I know is the Cummins have a good reputation and are fairly easy to work on.  It's a newer technology than the 465 LDT in the Deuce, but it's not the most up to date.  Like the Deuce, your top end will max out around 50 or so.  But then again, if you wanted a race car, that's what you'd be buying.

Like other posters have said, go to SteelSoldiers.com.  These guys have all the info you seek.  There are separate forums for the 2.5 and 5 ton trucks, and these guys know their way around both very well.

Reading will give you a better idea of what you might need.

LC

The 5 ton drives WAY better on and off road. The auto tranny is a dream compared to the deuce. I have hundreds of hours in each.

Lots of good info! Thanks guys. Love the pics of your rides!

I have the M105A2 trailer for my truck.

It's rated at 1.5 tons, but that must be 1.5 tons bouncing across European farm fields for an entire war without failure.
It is an amazingly well built piece of equipment.

Hmmm...5 ton bobber?

Is it just me, or are there a lot more 5 tons for sale? I figure that the Deuces are probably more popular, but it looks like the 5 tons are more available

Lol. I did read that, but I've looked at dozens of forums, different dealers, auction sites, etc., & it must've slipped my mind.

Solid engine but it is non-turbo.

Don't back up in low range.

Yup rated off-road capacity.
Same with trucks. A Deuce is rated at 5 tons on highway and a 5 ton is rated for ten tons on highway.

The Deuces are nearly all gone from the surplus pipeline, they've been surplusing them out for quite a while.  You will find Deuces in the private market, but the prices will be higher, for trucks that are in less desirable condition.

There have been quite a few 5 tons in the last couple years, but they are really just getting started, comparatively speaking.  They'll be in the pipeline for a while.

LC

i thought you only had to have a cdl license, if you were a commercial driver??  if its your personal truck you dont. do all farmers with semi's have to have cdl licenses?

even after looking at this thread on it, im still not sure.


http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_35/498226_Is_a_CDL_needed_for_5_ton_6x6_truck_.html

there is a guy that lives about 10 miles from where my new land is. he has a yard full of deuces and trailers. they are all the older styles though. id ideally like to have a later model truck, but might have to check out his prices anyway.

I have a bobbed deuce.





Deuce brakes are scary, I lost all brakes last year and nearly crashed. Get an airforce one that is 1986 or newer for dual loop brakes. Multi-fuel is nice. No power steering sucks.





5 ton has a nice Cummins I think. Better brakes. But huge.





go to steelsoldiers.com for more

 

parts are easy to get for the Cummins, the problem is the transmission can be hard to find parts for. The truck will have the nice dual loop brakes. You will need to disable CTIS or your tires will be flat.



A3's price range is around $5k thrashed to 15k perfect shape.



 

a few years ago deuces were more available because that is what govliquidation.com was getting rid of, now they are getting rid of 5 tons so they are more available...for now.



 

2.5 tons are less than 26001 GVWR. 5 tons are more than 26001 GVWR.



TN CDL rules:

You must have a CDL to operate:

Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight

rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.

Any combination vehicle with a gross

combination weight rating of 26,001 or more

pounds, if the trailer(s) has a GVWR of 10,001 or

more pounds.

Any vehicle designed to transport more than

fifteen (15) passengers in addition to the driver,

or if the vehicle is used as a school bus,

regardless of the weight of the vehicle.

Any size vehicle which requires hazardous

material placards, or is carrying material listed as

a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR part 73. Federal

regulations through the Department of Homeland

Security require a background check and

fingerprinting for the Hazardous Materials

endorsement.

Your state will determine your license needs.



How you title the vehicle will also determine what license can drive it.



Some folks converting the surplus 5 tons to big off road campers are getting rv put in the title.  In most states you don't need a cdl to drive an rv, but if the vehicle has air brakes you will need to add the air brake endorsement to your driver's license.



This can all affect how your vehicle insurance feels about you and your vehicle as well.



If you buy a regular 5 ton and title it as a truck that weight rating will cause you to need a cdl in most states.  



If you own a farm and put the truck on your farm equipment list then you can usually slide it as a piece of farm equipment but that usually comes with restrictions for how far the vehicle can travel from your farm.



For someone living in the country on a few acres, but not a farm, a cdl would probably be needed to be legal with a 5 ton.  



One thing to keep in mind for some folks who are a bit on the large size is that a deuce and a half can feel a bit cramped compared to a 5 ton.



With either one you really need to be careful if you think you can easily self recover.  These vehicles are made for convoys and when you get a 6x6 stuck you have usually got a stuck that won't be easily tugged out unless you have a similar sized or larger vehicle.



Messing around on steel soldiers will cover all this stuff and more.  I love reading on that site and as much as I want a surplus 6x6 I have held off simply because a good stuck would be something that would mean I would not be able to call anyone I know well to come pull me out.



Stick a one ton dually and you have a pickup truck stuck.  Lots of folks have winches or similar sized trucks that can get those out.



Stick a vehicle weighing in at 5 tons, for a deuce and half I think, and you have something to deal with.



And while these vehicles can have winches on them, a tree that will pull a small jeep out might not handle pulling out a deuce and a half.



There are threads on steel soldiers about people simply getting stuck in their yard because it was damp and the weight of the vehicle caused it to dig in and get stuck.  If you own a couple of these you can tug yourself out.



Have a neighbor with one, he can tug you out.



Own a farm with some serious 4x4 tractor or something and it can tug you out.



Own a few acres in the country and don't really know your neighbors and you get stuck and you might be into something interesting.



In doing some reading the forest service had a tendancy to stick to the deuce and half trucks for the forest roads/trails because of its size and ability off road.



While they are a 6x6 they are a heavy item.



Due to me being a big fella I plan on a 5 ton if I get something.



The fact they are more common right now is nice.



But weight limits on small bridges are something to pay attention to if buying a vehicle this size.



One thing I got into here in tn with a ton and a half truck was that my regular car insurance was only good for stuff up to 10k lbs.  The truck can go to 14k lbs so it needed a commercial policy of sorts.  To keep costs reasonable it is a commercial policy for personal use, but it sure the heck is not going on the auto policy right beside my half ton ford or my tj.  It was not a big deal and overall the cost is not that different, but I did not expect it when I ran into it and I am not sure what would be the same or different with the deuce or a 5 ton truck.



Read up on the vehicles and keep in mind that changing a flat or doing anything like brakes on these vehicles is a whole lot larger than just normal personal vehicles that most folks have.



They can be fun and I am not against them one bit.



But kind of like a ccw, you really need to consider your specific uses and budget to get something that will work well for you and not cause you unexpected issues.

I farm, & as far as I know, you don't need a CDL if you're not commercially hauling, & if you stay within 150 miles of your farm. That's for Tennessee. I do plan on using this on my farming operation. Getting stuck doesn't worry me. We have several big 4wd tractors, & I've dealt with stuck tractors, sprayers, 18 wheelers,etc.

What does a fording kit consist of? And what's the cost & where is the best place to purchase one? I'm interested, because we have a couple thousand acres that flood every other year or so, & it'd be very useful in getting around

Err....that 406 isn't a 6.5 ton truck. At least not more than one try at it.....



IAC, if it's for workability go 5ton. Much nicer ergos. If it's for screwing around go deuce. As has been mentioned, get the dual circuit brake...don't think you'll be getting away with adding it on later, if you get the single circuit. Get it from the beginning. I'd stay with the A2 version, and pass on the A3.



I've got a 1966 M35A2, for some years now.



 

Speaking of getting stuck, in the Marines we nicknamed them "Self excavating 5 tons".  





I never drove them, just operated around them, and it might have been driver error, lord knows the only way you learn to drive offroad in the Marines is if you have someone who does it as a past time teach you, but every time a 5 ton got stuck, it went from traveling, to buried to the axles nearly instantly.
I don't know if its big tires and a lot of torque with a heavy front end or what, but stuff we would be power sliding humvee's in, 5 tons would just straight up dig holes driving normally.  
The few duece's that were left never seemed to have as bad of problem.
I know there's a ton of youtube videos of civilian owned 5 tons tearing it up in mud bogs though, so it could have had more to do with terrain and such, Camp Pendleton is weird.
 

Look into insurance costs while youre at it if you plan on using it off of your property.

Www.steelsoldiers.com will have the majority of the information yourr looking for. Itll cover CDL requirements, titling, registrations, and all the applicable TMs to work on it.

true.. we had a deuce stuck so badly at ft campbell it had to be recovered with a chinook.    we tried a tank, and a dozer, but they sank as well.

Love my M109A3 camper/ BOV/ Ice cream getter

I hate you...



That is awesome.



 

I concur!

Me too.  Mine doesn't look anything like that...........yet.

LC

I'm saving up for a 2.5 ton deuce... would love to have it bobbed.

I have a gas well on my place, that produces about a hundred barrels of condensate each month... which these trucks will gladly run on.

As far as "sticking out"... pretty sure every vehicle still moving will stand out, a few months after the fuel runs out.  Much rather have a rig that I can use without worrying about using up precious diesel fuel.  Save that for the tractor.

You're right!

I re-worked the math: 5.28 tons once converted from metric (6000KGVW)

condensate?  not sure about that



 

Have you not heard?

All I can say is what I have heard, and that is that you cannot run the Deuce multifuel on straight gasoline.  It will cause over compression issues.  Other than that, if it is combustible, the multifuel can burn it, or at least that is my impression.

LC

I'd like to hear how well the Conti's work on drip gas. Sounds interesting. Basic issue I see is that any of the lighter fuels, like gasoline, are only suited for emergency use in the "multifuel" engines. Diesel, biodiesel, kerosene, etc are all fine...gasoline not so much. Detonation can and does occur, which is why you see the stickers on the -A2's on the oil filters. The ones that say "Diesel Fuel Only".



Like many things, multifuel is a neat idea, but with the tech available in that day, didn't work so well. Then again, these are tactical trucks, and are basically disposable to meet mission requirements.



Oh, and GVWR does not equal load capacity. Duece and a half's are rated at 2.5 tons off road, 5 tons on road, 5 ton tow capacity.

I've always wanted a deuce as kind of a toy.  I love wrenching on stuff so that wouldn't be an issue.  One of the things I find odd is that a new F150 is rated for ~9500 pounds and from what I've read, a deuce is rated at 10,000 lbs as others in this thread have mentioned.  I had hoped a deuce would be more in the F350 range. I suppose the main issue is the braking on the deuce?

Weight ratings are mostly crap from manufacturers, when you get down to it.



Yep, tow rating for a M35A2 is 5 tons, but that five tons is also the offroad tow rating. You're right that the issue is the braking - torque and drivetrain wise it'll pull a heckuva lot more, but you won't be stopping it. The other issue is that the air supply isn't that great, and the reservoirs aren't that big either. I've had hills where I'm towing, coming down, and the compressor can't keep up...so you lose braking. Pure entertainment. Especially when you're sitting seven feet up on what amounts to a buckboard wagon bench. No roll protection, etc. Fun fun fun.



Even more entertaining when you lose a front tire.



It's a primitive truck, right along the lines of an early Unimog S



 

The deuce multifuel can technically run on gasoline, but not for long. it will burn up the head after prolonged periods.



The deuce has what is functionally a diesel engine but with a viscosity variable single injector that can change its orifice size based on the viscosity of the fuel.



Ive run filtered motor oil, gear oil and diesel...it really likes to eat gear oil/diesel mix.

Also has the piston mods for multifuel...even though it was better in concept than practice

I've heard that the only way to run gas for prolonged periods of time in the multifuel is to add a significant amount of oil to it. Other than that, it'll burn just about anything combustible. Pretty much what's been said here.

That's my understanding also.  Some people will add a few gallons of gas to a tank of diesel, but generally most will run straight diesel or a mix of diesel and some sort of oil, like filtered WMO, or vegetable oil.  Running filtered vegetable oil will almost require that you cut it with diesel, especially in colder climates where it gets too viscous.

I have heard that ATF burns pretty well in the multifuel, but I haven't tried any different fuels yet, just diesel.  And with todays ultra low sulfur diesel, it is a good idea to add a quart or two of some kind of oil for more lubricity.  The multifuel engine was not designed to run on ULSD.

LC