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gaspain
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Posted: 5/23/2013 11:15:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By GRATIOFLASH:
Is it just me, or are there a lot more 5 tons for sale? I figure that the Deuces are probably more popular, but it looks like the 5 tons are more available

a few years ago deuces were more available because that is what govliquidation.com was getting rid of, now they are getting rid of 5 tons so they are more available...for now.
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OverScoped
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Posted: 5/23/2013 11:22:24 AM EST

2.5 tons are less than 26001 GVWR. 5 tons are more than 26001 GVWR.

TN CDL rules:

You must have a CDL to operate:

Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight

rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.

Any combination vehicle with a gross

combination weight rating of 26,001 or more

pounds, if the trailer(s) has a GVWR of 10,001 or

more pounds.

Any vehicle designed to transport more than

fifteen (15) passengers in addition to the driver,

or if the vehicle is used as a school bus,

regardless of the weight of the vehicle.

Any size vehicle which requires hazardous

material placards, or is carrying material listed as

a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR part 73. Federal

regulations through the Department of Homeland

Security require a background check and

fingerprinting for the Hazardous Materials

endorsement.

biere
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Posted: 5/23/2013 11:29:36 AM EST
Your state will determine your license needs.

How you title the vehicle will also determine what license can drive it.

Some folks converting the surplus 5 tons to big off road campers are getting rv put in the title. In most states you don't need a cdl to drive an rv, but if the vehicle has air brakes you will need to add the air brake endorsement to your driver's license.

This can all affect how your vehicle insurance feels about you and your vehicle as well.

If you buy a regular 5 ton and title it as a truck that weight rating will cause you to need a cdl in most states.

If you own a farm and put the truck on your farm equipment list then you can usually slide it as a piece of farm equipment but that usually comes with restrictions for how far the vehicle can travel from your farm.

For someone living in the country on a few acres, but not a farm, a cdl would probably be needed to be legal with a 5 ton.

One thing to keep in mind for some folks who are a bit on the large size is that a deuce and a half can feel a bit cramped compared to a 5 ton.

With either one you really need to be careful if you think you can easily self recover. These vehicles are made for convoys and when you get a 6x6 stuck you have usually got a stuck that won't be easily tugged out unless you have a similar sized or larger vehicle.

Messing around on steel soldiers will cover all this stuff and more. I love reading on that site and as much as I want a surplus 6x6 I have held off simply because a good stuck would be something that would mean I would not be able to call anyone I know well to come pull me out.

Stick a one ton dually and you have a pickup truck stuck. Lots of folks have winches or similar sized trucks that can get those out.

Stick a vehicle weighing in at 5 tons, for a deuce and half I think, and you have something to deal with.

And while these vehicles can have winches on them, a tree that will pull a small jeep out might not handle pulling out a deuce and a half.

There are threads on steel soldiers about people simply getting stuck in their yard because it was damp and the weight of the vehicle caused it to dig in and get stuck. If you own a couple of these you can tug yourself out.

Have a neighbor with one, he can tug you out.

Own a farm with some serious 4x4 tractor or something and it can tug you out.

Own a few acres in the country and don't really know your neighbors and you get stuck and you might be into something interesting.

In doing some reading the forest service had a tendancy to stick to the deuce and half trucks for the forest roads/trails because of its size and ability off road.

While they are a 6x6 they are a heavy item.

Due to me being a big fella I plan on a 5 ton if I get something.

The fact they are more common right now is nice.

But weight limits on small bridges are something to pay attention to if buying a vehicle this size.

One thing I got into here in tn with a ton and a half truck was that my regular car insurance was only good for stuff up to 10k lbs. The truck can go to 14k lbs so it needed a commercial policy of sorts. To keep costs reasonable it is a commercial policy for personal use, but it sure the heck is not going on the auto policy right beside my half ton ford or my tj. It was not a big deal and overall the cost is not that different, but I did not expect it when I ran into it and I am not sure what would be the same or different with the deuce or a 5 ton truck.

Read up on the vehicles and keep in mind that changing a flat or doing anything like brakes on these vehicles is a whole lot larger than just normal personal vehicles that most folks have.

They can be fun and I am not against them one bit.

But kind of like a ccw, you really need to consider your specific uses and budget to get something that will work well for you and not cause you unexpected issues.
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GRATIOFLASH
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Posted: 5/23/2013 7:10:47 PM EST
I farm, & as far as I know, you don't need a CDL if you're not commercially hauling, & if you stay within 150 miles of your farm. That's for Tennessee. I do plan on using this on my farming operation. Getting stuck doesn't worry me. We have several big 4wd tractors, & I've dealt with stuck tractors, sprayers, 18 wheelers,etc.

What does a fording kit consist of? And what's the cost & where is the best place to purchase one? I'm interested, because we have a couple thousand acres that flood every other year or so, & it'd be very useful in getting around
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czechsix
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Posted: 5/23/2013 8:52:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By PugglePod9000:
First of I should say: I've never owned nor operated either a 2.5 or a 5-ton Army truck.

I do have a UNIMOG 406, which is a 6.5-Ton truck.
I'd much rather have it than a U-404 (the 2.5-Ton variety UNIMOG)

The extra power has been very helpful when pulling heavy stuff around on the farm.

Err....that 406 isn't a 6.5 ton truck. At least not more than one try at it.....

IAC, if it's for workability go 5ton. Much nicer ergos. If it's for screwing around go deuce. As has been mentioned, get the dual circuit brake...don't think you'll be getting away with adding it on later, if you get the single circuit. Get it from the beginning. I'd stay with the A2 version, and pass on the A3.

I've got a 1966 M35A2, for some years now.
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Madcap72
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Posted: 5/23/2013 9:36:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/24/2013 3:13:19 AM EST by Madcap72]
Speaking of getting stuck, in the Marines we nicknamed them "Self excavating 5 tons".

I never drove them, just operated around them, and it might have been driver error, lord knows the only way you learn to drive offroad in the Marines is if you have someone who does it as a past time teach you, but every time a 5 ton got stuck, it went from traveling, to buried to the axles nearly instantly.


I don't know if its big tires and a lot of torque with a heavy front end or what, but stuff we would be power sliding humvee's in, 5 tons would just straight up dig holes driving normally.


The few duece's that were left never seemed to have as bad of problem.


I know there's a ton of youtube videos of civilian owned 5 tons tearing it up in mud bogs though, so it could have had more to do with terrain and such, Camp Pendleton is weird.

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Durango_USMC
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Posted: 5/23/2013 10:19:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/23/2013 10:24:27 PM EST by Durango_USMC]
Look into insurance costs while youre at it if you plan on using it off of your property.

Www.steelsoldiers.com will have the majority of the information yourr looking for. Itll cover CDL requirements, titling, registrations, and all the applicable TMs to work on it.
biere
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Posted: 5/24/2013 3:05:37 AM EST
On the duece brakes there are some folks who have done major modifications to their braking systems and there are aftermarket options out there.

Read at steel soldiers about it.

To some extent the brakes on a deuce can be a bit scary compared to some of today's stuff, older vehicle with older brake technology.

While the modifications were not cheap when I read about them they increased the braking ability of the vehicle a whole lot.

I forget what it takes to change the single loop to the double loop brake system but you would be going from a master cylinder withone resevoir to a double resevoir and then you would have to seperate the lines, or just run all new lines, to the brakes so there were 2 seperate systems.

For simple safety the double loop is a good idea but I know full well some folks have no issues with the single loop.

Just understand what you have and know how to handle emergency issues.

I don't know what a fording kit would cost but you should be able to read up on them and their specifics at steel soldiers and they also tend to have links for businesses with parts like that so you could see about that.

Steel soldiers also has all kinds of manuals in pdf format so you can do some reading and see the recomended maintenance and stuff for a lot of the vehicles.

Surplus vehicles most certainly have their place, but they are a heck of a thing for some folks to get into if they are not used to such vehicles.

For around the farm mentioned above sounds like you know what you are getting into.

I think I would wind up being a bit more like the post where the 5 ton just sinks in instantly. They are such a heavy vehicle that the tires have a lot of weight per inch of contact surface so they just sink really quickly.

The forest service liked the deuces because they were a good middle ground for off road ability and hauling weight and moving large items and people around easily.

But as usual it just depends on your terrain since I do like messing around on youtube and watching what a 6x6 can accomplish.


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buck19delta
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Posted: 5/24/2013 6:31:21 AM EST
true.. we had a deuce stuck so badly at ft campbell it had to be recovered with a chinook. we tried a tank, and a dozer, but they sank as well.
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Posted: 5/24/2013 6:39:49 AM EST
Love my M109A3 camper/ BOV/ Ice cream getter





Deanventure
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Posted: 5/24/2013 7:09:59 AM EST
GRATIOFLASH
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Posted: 5/24/2013 8:09:46 AM EST
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LongueCarabine
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Posted: 5/24/2013 8:36:40 AM EST


Me too. Mine doesn't look anything like that...........yet.

LC
"I want to hear the leeches scream before I die." - stolen from someone on Subguns.com.
thebaldtexican
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Posted: 5/24/2013 9:52:41 AM EST
I'm saving up for a 2.5 ton deuce... would love to have it bobbed.

I have a gas well on my place, that produces about a hundred barrels of condensate each month... which these trucks will gladly run on.

As far as "sticking out"... pretty sure every vehicle still moving will stand out, a few months after the fuel runs out. Much rather have a rig that I can use without worrying about using up precious diesel fuel. Save that for the tractor.
PugglePod9000
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Posted: 5/24/2013 3:57:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By czechsix:

Err....that 406 isn't a 6.5 ton truck. At least not more than one try at it.....


You're right!

I re-worked the math: 5.28 tons once converted from metric (6000KGVW)
gaspain
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Posted: 5/24/2013 4:18:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By thebaldtexican:
I'm saving up for a 2.5 ton deuce... would love to have it bobbed.

I have a gas well on my place, that produces about a hundred barrels of condensate each month... which these trucks will gladly run on.

As far as "sticking out"... pretty sure every vehicle still moving will stand out, a few months after the fuel runs out. Much rather have a rig that I can use without worrying about using up precious diesel fuel. Save that for the tractor.

condensate? not sure about that
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Posted: 5/24/2013 4:24:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By gaspain:

Originally Posted By thebaldtexican:
I'm saving up for a 2.5 ton deuce... would love to have it bobbed.

I have a gas well on my place, that produces about a hundred barrels of condensate each month... which these trucks will gladly run on.

As far as "sticking out"... pretty sure every vehicle still moving will stand out, a few months after the fuel runs out. Much rather have a rig that I can use without worrying about using up precious diesel fuel. Save that for the tractor.

condensate? not sure about that
Have you not heard?



Some very early internal combustion engines—such as the first types made by Karl Benz, and early Wright brothers aircraft engines—used natural gasoline, which could be either drip gas or a similar range of hydrocarbons distilled from crude oil. Natural gasoline has an octane rating of about 30 to 50, sufficient for the low-compression engines of the early 20th century. By 1930, improved engines and higher compression ratios required higher-octane, refined gasolines to produce power without knocking or detonation.

Beginning in the Great Depression, drip gas was used as a replacement for commercial gasoline by people in oil-producing areas. "In the days of simple engines in automobiles and farm tractors it was not uncommon for anyone having access to a condensate well to fill his tank with 'drip,'" according to the Oklahoma Historical Society. Sometimes it worked fine. "At other times it might cause thundering backfires and clouds of foul-smelling smoke."[url=http://www.ar15.com/#cite_note-11][11][/url]

Woody Guthrie's autobiographical novel Seeds of Man begins with Woody and his uncle Jeff tapping a natural gas pipeline for drip gas. The gas also has a mention in Badlands, the Terrence Malick movie.[url=http://www.ar15.com/#cite_note-12][12][/url]

It was sold commercially at gas stations and hardware stores in North America until the early 1950s. The White gas sold today is a similar product but is produced at refineries with the benzene removed.[url=http://www.ar15.com/#cite_note-13][13][/url]

In 1975, the New Mexico State Police's drip gas detail – three men in pickup trucks – began patrolling oil and gas fields, catching thieves and recovering barrels of stolen gas. The detail stopped its work in 1987.[url=http://www.ar15.com/#cite_note-14][14][/url]

The use of drip gas in cars and trucks is now illegal in many states. It is also harmful to modern engines due to its low octane rating, high heat of combustion and lack of additives. It has a distinctive smell when used as a fuel, which allowed police to catch people using drip gas illegally.[url=http://www.ar15.com/#cite_note-15][15][/url][url=http://www.ar15.com/#cite_note-16][16][/url]


LongueCarabine
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Posted: 5/24/2013 5:26:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By OverScoped:

Originally Posted By gaspain:

Originally Posted By thebaldtexican:
I'm saving up for a 2.5 ton deuce... would love to have it bobbed.

I have a gas well on my place, that produces about a hundred barrels of condensate each month... which these trucks will gladly run on.

As far as "sticking out"... pretty sure every vehicle still moving will stand out, a few months after the fuel runs out. Much rather have a rig that I can use without worrying about using up precious diesel fuel. Save that for the tractor.

condensate? not sure about that
Have you not heard?



Some very early internal combustion engines—such as the first types made by Karl Benz, and early Wright brothers aircraft engines—used natural gasoline, which could be either drip gas or a similar range of hydrocarbons distilled from crude oil. Natural gasoline has an octane rating of about 30 to 50, sufficient for the low-compression engines of the early 20th century. By 1930, improved engines and higher compression ratios required higher-octane, refined gasolines to produce power without knocking or detonation.

Beginning in the Great Depression, drip gas was used as a replacement for commercial gasoline by people in oil-producing areas. "In the days of simple engines in automobiles and farm tractors it was not uncommon for anyone having access to a condensate well to fill his tank with 'drip,'" according to the Oklahoma Historical Society. Sometimes it worked fine. "At other times it might cause thundering backfires and clouds of foul-smelling smoke."[url=http://www.ar15.com/#cite_note-11][11][/url]

Woody Guthrie's autobiographical novel Seeds of Man begins with Woody and his uncle Jeff tapping a natural gas pipeline for drip gas. The gas also has a mention in Badlands, the Terrence Malick movie.[url=http://www.ar15.com/#cite_note-12][12][/url]

It was sold commercially at gas stations and hardware stores in North America until the early 1950s. The White gas sold today is a similar product but is produced at refineries with the benzene removed.[url=http://www.ar15.com/#cite_note-13][13][/url]

In 1975, the New Mexico State Police's drip gas detail – three men in pickup trucks – began patrolling oil and gas fields, catching thieves and recovering barrels of stolen gas. The detail stopped its work in 1987.[url=http://www.ar15.com/#cite_note-14][14][/url]

The use of drip gas in cars and trucks is now illegal in many states. It is also harmful to modern engines due to its low octane rating, high heat of combustion and lack of additives. It has a distinctive smell when used as a fuel, which allowed police to catch people using drip gas illegally.[url=http://www.ar15.com/#cite_note-15][15][/url][url=http://www.ar15.com/#cite_note-16][16][/url]




All I can say is what I have heard, and that is that you cannot run the Deuce multifuel on straight gasoline. It will cause over compression issues. Other than that, if it is combustible, the multifuel can burn it, or at least that is my impression.

LC
"I want to hear the leeches scream before I die." - stolen from someone on Subguns.com.
czechsix
why, oh why GOD WAS I BORN IN CALIFORNIA
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Posted: 5/24/2013 5:31:00 PM EST
I'd like to hear how well the Conti's work on drip gas. Sounds interesting. Basic issue I see is that any of the lighter fuels, like gasoline, are only suited for emergency use in the "multifuel" engines. Diesel, biodiesel, kerosene, etc are all fine...gasoline not so much. Detonation can and does occur, which is why you see the stickers on the -A2's on the oil filters. The ones that say "Diesel Fuel Only".

Like many things, multifuel is a neat idea, but with the tech available in that day, didn't work so well. Then again, these are tactical trucks, and are basically disposable to meet mission requirements.

Oh, and GVWR does not equal load capacity. Duece and a half's are rated at 2.5 tons off road, 5 tons on road, 5 ton tow capacity.
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Nicodareus
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Posted: 5/24/2013 6:24:52 PM EST
I've always wanted a deuce as kind of a toy. I love wrenching on stuff so that wouldn't be an issue. One of the things I find odd is that a new F150 is rated for ~9500 pounds and from what I've read, a deuce is rated at 10,000 lbs as others in this thread have mentioned. I had hoped a deuce would be more in the F350 range. I suppose the main issue is the braking on the deuce?
czechsix
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Posted: 5/24/2013 7:18:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nicodareus:
I've always wanted a deuce as kind of a toy. I love wrenching on stuff so that wouldn't be an issue. One of the things I find odd is that a new F150 is rated for ~9500 pounds and from what I've read, a deuce is rated at 10,000 lbs as others in this thread have mentioned. I had hoped a deuce would be more in the F350 range. I suppose the main issue is the braking on the deuce?

Weight ratings are mostly crap from manufacturers, when you get down to it.

Yep, tow rating for a M35A2 is 5 tons, but that five tons is also the offroad tow rating. You're right that the issue is the braking - torque and drivetrain wise it'll pull a heckuva lot more, but you won't be stopping it. The other issue is that the air supply isn't that great, and the reservoirs aren't that big either. I've had hills where I'm towing, coming down, and the compressor can't keep up...so you lose braking. Pure entertainment. Especially when you're sitting seven feet up on what amounts to a buckboard wagon bench. No roll protection, etc. Fun fun fun.

Even more entertaining when you lose a front tire.

It's a primitive truck, right along the lines of an early Unimog S
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gaspain
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Posted: 5/24/2013 8:05:20 PM EST
The deuce multifuel can technically run on gasoline, but not for long. it will burn up the head after prolonged periods.

The deuce has what is functionally a diesel engine but with a viscosity variable single injector that can change its orifice size based on the viscosity of the fuel.

Ive run filtered motor oil, gear oil and diesel...it really likes to eat gear oil/diesel mix.
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czechsix
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Posted: 5/24/2013 8:18:57 PM EST
Also has the piston mods for multifuel...even though it was better in concept than practice
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GRATIOFLASH
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Posted: 5/24/2013 8:58:00 PM EST
I've heard that the only way to run gas for prolonged periods of time in the multifuel is to add a significant amount of oil to it. Other than that, it'll burn just about anything combustible. Pretty much what's been said here.
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LongueCarabine
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Posted: 5/24/2013 9:13:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By GRATIOFLASH:
I've heard that the only way to run gas for prolonged periods of time in the multifuel is to add a significant amount of oil to it. Other than that, it'll burn just about anything combustible. Pretty much what's been said here.


That's my understanding also. Some people will add a few gallons of gas to a tank of diesel, but generally most will run straight diesel or a mix of diesel and some sort of oil, like filtered WMO, or vegetable oil. Running filtered vegetable oil will almost require that you cut it with diesel, especially in colder climates where it gets too viscous.

I have heard that ATF burns pretty well in the multifuel, but I haven't tried any different fuels yet, just diesel. And with todays ultra low sulfur diesel, it is a good idea to add a quart or two of some kind of oil for more lubricity. The multifuel engine was not designed to run on ULSD.

LC
"I want to hear the leeches scream before I die." - stolen from someone on Subguns.com.
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