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ktcarlin
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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:24:22 AM EST
Is anyone familiar with flash bainite armor? They claim to be, pound for pound, the strongest armor known to man.

Has anyone used this armor before?

I found these YouTube videos, but wondered if anyone else has had any interaction with it?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax13qN51reg
Cahonus66
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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:26:42 AM EST
bad link.
11H20 6/31-1/52 84-88
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ktcarlin
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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:28:59 AM EST
E__WOK
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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:41:46 AM EST
http://www.bainitesteel.com/

Who would want to trust an armor company who posts youtube videos?
ktcarlin
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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:47:44 AM EST
Ha, I can assure you that I am not employed by Flash Bainite. Considering they are located in Michigan, and the videos are clearly not Michigan, unless the Rocky Mountains, the entire countryside and Montana has now been removed to Michigan.

Nice try though. I was very skeptical of the armor, asked for a test plate, they provided me with one that was partially treated (as seen in the one video that says no hit, and you can clearly see the treated portion) and a fully treated silhouette. From my results, it appears that it is quite strong. Now I am asking if anyone else has used it.

Sorry bud, but I am no way in Michigan. Unless you have been to a part of Michigan that looks like that!
E__WOK
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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:04:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By ktcarlin:
Ha, I can assure you that I am not employed by Flash Bainite. Considering they are located in Michigan, and the videos are clearly not Michigan, unless the Rocky Mountains, the entire countryside and Montana has now been removed to Michigan.

Nice try though. I was very skeptical of the armor, asked for a test plate, they provided me with one that was partially treated (as seen in the one video that says no hit, and you can clearly see the treated portion) and a fully treated silhouette. From my results, it appears that it is quite strong. Now I am asking if anyone else has used it.

Sorry bud, but I am no way in Michigan. Unless you have been to a part of Michigan that looks like that!


??? Where is all that coming from? I haven't clicked on the youtube link.

If their product is as good as they say, what government hardware is using their steel? Do they have any contracts?
ktcarlin
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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:09:04 AM EST
Where is this coming from?

And I quote: "Who would want to trust an armor company who posts youtube videos?"

The allegation, although subtle, is that because I posted the videos that I work for the armor company. I do not work for them, I found them just like you just did when you googled them, and the first link was Flash Bainite.

If you didn't click on the Youtube video, why the allegation?

As for the contracts, etc., that is a great question. I wish I knew, but I don't. I am just like all of you, preparedness minded, and looking for the best way to protect my family.

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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:15:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By ktcarlin:
Where is this coming from?

And I quote: "Who would want to trust an armor company who posts youtube videos?"

The allegation, although subtle, is that because I posted the videos that I work for the armor company.

Uh, no. Loosen the tin foil a bit. His comment was a vocalization of what I was thinking, which was "YouTube?" While I realize that lots of companies use YouTube for hosting product demonstration videos, it's still YouTube, home of fart pranks and funny cat videos.
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czechsix
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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:16:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2012 9:20:11 AM EST by czechsix]
Do you have a link to the company?

I'm curious too on how it compares to standard AR500 plate. Sounds like it's an additional surface hardening...interesting.

edit: even more interesting, it's not surface hardening, sounds like it's a different tempering process.
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ktcarlin
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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:28:48 AM EST
Perhaps you are right. From what I was reading, it seemed as if he was alluding to the fact that Flash Bainite, company proper, was posting videos via Youtube, even though, as you stated, is a common practice.

One child screaming in one ear, getting ready for Christmas and a wife who is panicking over Christmas, may have made me a bit on edge.

Thank you for telling me to settle my nerves and look at it without my emotions. Apologies for my response, that was, in retrospect, over the top.

ktcarlin
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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:37:25 AM EST
That is my understanding also. The heating, quenching and tempering is different than all other types of AR500. They claim to be the strongest AR500 metal known to man as a result of this process.

I wish I knew more about metals, etc.
E__WOK
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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:47:10 AM EST
What good is the strength of the armor if it is not the best to use for your purpose?

I wish they made Chobham concealable body armor so I will be protected against HEAT rounds.


What is your intended application?

ktcarlin
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:14:56 AM EST
That is a great question. Wife and 4 kids, I imagine that light weight, and able to resist, handgun and rifle rounds. Since .223 is very common here (wolf hunting) that is my biggest concern. Also, the very active and dedicated hunters utilize .300 Win Mag for elk, etc. In a SHTF scenario, I imagine if I am at my house, I might have to worry about some sniper (many hunters can kill an elk from 600+ yards, pretty good shooting in my mind) trying to take me out from 100+ yards.


What are heat rounds? Are these commercially available?

ktcarlin
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Posted: 12/13/2012 11:45:59 AM EST
From their website:

Flash Bainite is the Strongest, Most Ductile, Lean Alloyed, Readily Weldable, Least Costly Maximum Strength METAL known to man. A50 tensile ranges from 1100 to 2080MPa (160-302ksi) with 8 to 9% elongation. Total elongation up to 10-11% is not uncommon. Flash 500 at 1900MPa and 9% elongation exceeds titanium-6Al-4V's strength to weight ratio making it pound per pound stronger at only 56% the volume. Flash 500 is 10% the cost of Ti-64.

"Off the shelf" sheet, plate, and tubing can be made into Flash Bainite. Triple the strength of Chrome Moly, Flash 4140 is pound for pound 2X stronger than 6061-T6 aluminum. If you are "lightweighting" structure with aluminum, Flash Bainite will do a better job at far less weight and cost.

Environmentally friendly, this process consumes less than a half Kwatt of energy per Kg of steel processed (less than a penny/pound). Water is used instead of polluting oils or molten salt. With 4 years of research, Ohio State University has determined the alloy mechanism that allows Bainite to be transformed in about 80ms. Many of the world's leading metallurgists have reviewed Flash Processing and fully agree. Flash Processing is unique technology to make lean alloyed steel stronger and more ductile than ever before.

Also, this addresses their body armor. I would be interested if anyone else has tried this before.

http://www.bainitesteel.com/FlashBainite.pdf
ktcarlin
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Posted: 12/13/2012 11:50:18 AM EST
EDIT: It is not a new type of steel, or armor. It is a new process that makes the steel stronger than any other previous metals.

Any metallurgists out that can even tell me if this is real?
PATCH5
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Posted: 12/13/2012 11:55:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By ktcarlin:
That is a great question. Wife and 4 kids, I imagine that light weight, and able to resist, handgun and rifle rounds. Since .223 is very common here (wolf hunting) that is my biggest concern. Also, the very active and dedicated hunters utilize .300 Win Mag for elk, etc. In a SHTF scenario, I imagine if I am at my house, I might have to worry about some sniper (many hunters can kill an elk from 600+ yards, pretty good shooting in my mind) trying to take me out from 100+ yards.


What are heat rounds? Are these commercially available?



HEAT=High Explosive Anti-Tank

Basically armor piercing explosive warheads. IIRC,

Not sure why that was asked, I just skimmed through the thread. And no, HEAT rounds are not commercially available, since they aren't traditional firearms cartridges, rather warhead based technology. (I think they come in mortar flavor?) You can get HEAT rounds for a 203, recoiless rifle, a tank main gun, rockets, ect.
tayous1
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Posted: 12/13/2012 12:52:30 PM EST
Is this body armor or just steel targets? If it's body armor I'd like to see how it holds up to the age old problem with steel plates and that being splatter from the round.
czechsix
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Posted: 12/13/2012 1:05:50 PM EST
The frags that are coming off are going to be the same danger with this, as will all hard face. Rhino lining seems to work pretty well though.
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ThePatriot556
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Posted: 12/13/2012 1:07:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Is this body armor or just steel targets? If it's body armor I'd like to see how it holds up to the age old problem with steel plates and that being splatter from the round.



I can't see how the process would mitigate spall.

ktcarlin
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Posted: 12/13/2012 1:35:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By czechsix:
The frags that are coming off are going to be the same danger with this, as will all hard face. Rhino lining seems to work pretty well though.



How would one go about limiting or eliminating that problem? Could a lip be created that would capture or deflect the frags?
manowar669
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Posted: 12/13/2012 1:47:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By ktcarlin:
Originally Posted By czechsix:
The frags that are coming off are going to be the same danger with this, as will all hard face. Rhino lining seems to work pretty well though.



How would one go about limiting or eliminating that problem? Could a lip be created that would capture or deflect the frags?


De-spall it with an overlay of kevlar, or a softer matrix bonded to the metal to slow or capture the frags. Even G-10 would help.. there was a thread on here a while ago about de-spalling hard plate. This bainite would perhaps be useful in hardening a vehicle, if body armor is a no-go.

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Posted: 12/13/2012 1:55:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By ThePatriot556:
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Is this body armor or just steel targets? If it's body armor I'd like to see how it holds up to the age old problem with steel plates and that being splatter from the round.



I can't see how the process would mitigate spall.

It doesn't, and does not claim to.



It would need spall lining, just like ceramic plates.

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czechsix
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Posted: 12/13/2012 2:28:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By manowar669:
Originally Posted By ktcarlin:
Originally Posted By czechsix:
The frags that are coming off are going to be the same danger with this, as will all hard face. Rhino lining seems to work pretty well though.



How would one go about limiting or eliminating that problem? Could a lip be created that would capture or deflect the frags?


De-spall it with an overlay of kevlar, or a softer matrix bonded to the metal to slow or capture the frags. Even G-10 would help.. there was a thread on here a while ago about de-spalling hard plate. This bainite would perhaps be useful in hardening a vehicle, if body armor is a no-go.



You can't really "de-spall" it, all you can do is mitigate the effects. The plate itself doesn't have much of a spall effect, at least not compared to the frags of the jacket and core that come off. Those are the real issues. It will always throw frags off when hit, trapping them is about all you can do, and that's limited in lifespan of hits. Then again, no one plans on taking multiple hits and still using it. On another forum I've bought into a group buy on AR500 rhino lined plates. It took a while, but the guys testing it were able to trap up to four 7.62x51 FMJ rounds, at 100 yards. Five rounds defeated the anti-frag rhino lining, but four rounds is pretty impressive. If you want to take it further, as you say, run a kevlar sleeve on it. But it'll also bulk it up. Otherwise, sure, a lip might work, at least at the top. Other parts of your body are still going to get frags though. Arms, thighs, etc. IAC the polyurethane lining seems to work pretty well.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 4:27:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2012 4:37:23 PM EST by pdm]
Originally Posted By ktcarlin:
Originally Posted By czechsix:
The frags that are coming off are going to be the same danger with this, as will all hard face. Rhino lining seems to work pretty well though.



How would one go about limiting or eliminating that problem? Could a lip be created that would capture or deflect the frags?


There was a huge thread in the GD forum that dealt with this exact problem....despalling AR500 used for BA plates. He was successful.

Let me try an dig it up.

Here it is: de-spall (thanks to the bros in GD for digging this up for me in about 20 sec)

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Posted: 12/13/2012 4:36:31 PM EST
Why is this in the SF? Doesn't this belong in Armory, maybe the Tactical Forum?
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Posted: 12/13/2012 5:53:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By ktcarlin:
EDIT: It is not a new type of steel, or armor. It is a new process that makes the steel stronger than any other previous metals.

Any metallurgists out that can even tell me if this is real?


This is probably the process that my fiancee's mom was telling me about just a month or so ago. The family owns a metalworking business that does strictly custom jobs, and we were discussing different grades of steel for armor purposes. She told me about some new steel or new treating process (I do not know much about this topic, so I am not sure which it was) that was created as the result of glass recycling plants having the flying shards of glass impact the back of their machines and wear the steel out over time. She said that whatever it was, would probably make better armor than AR500.

Now, this is an area I know almost nothing about, but there were a few other metals that she guessed would be better than AR500 for armor, while still being relatively affordable. I guess the "AR" number is related to how strong the steel is, or something like that, as she said they also work with AR400 and other numberical grades of it.
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